Hey shiny stuff collectors see what $520 buys!!
studentT206
Posts: 172
I love this board, but I am often perplexed at how some modern collector's will spend hundreds on new cards that were manufactured to be "collectibles". I got this card on ebay tonight and it is gorgeous!! Check it out.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200080751902
Not trying to disrespect anyone's collect preference, just some perspective here.
Be Well,
Damian
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200080751902
Not trying to disrespect anyone's collect preference, just some perspective here.
Be Well,
Damian
0
Comments
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
<< <i>I love this board, but I am often perplexed at how some modern collector's will spend hundreds on new cards that were manufactured to be "collectibles". I got this card on ebay tonight and it is gorgeous!! Check it out.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200080751902
Not trying to disrespect anyone's collect preference, just some perspective here.
Be Well,
Damian >>
Damian, It is a nice card congrats!
I would like to know what perspective it is your trying to attain? That modern cards are'nt worth it but vintage cards are?
I collect Emmitt Smith cards which are obviously modern.
Like I said, your card is nice but it sure isnt worth $520.00 to me.
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
<< <i>I love this board, but I am often perplexed at how some modern collector's will spend hundreds on new cards that were manufactured to be "collectibles". I got this card on ebay tonight and it is gorgeous!! Check it out.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200080751902
Not trying to disrespect anyone's collect preference, just some perspective here.
Be Well,
Damian >>
Congratulations Damian!
Great card - are you gonna sub it?
On the perspective - it's apples and oranges IMO.
While you pay 520$ for this card. One can invest that in a case of Heritage.
And, get countless hours of entertainment - opening packs - collating a set - trading for the missing cards and perhaps, pulling a nice real one auto?
Ya know? I like both.
mike
almo
Ironic. We're talking about that seller here.
Text
I am glad opinions like yours keep the prices of raw auctions like these down. You can tell from the image(with experience) in the scan that the card is probably not trimmed. Even if it is the seller is very reputable and has a guarantee. I will be able to tell if the card is altered without sending to PSA once its in my hands. Stay skeptacle it saves me money!!
Bosox1976
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
1955 Mays PSA 6
<< <i>Here you go. Seller bought as a PSA 6 for $300 >>
You beat me to it!
Dave
1957 Topps 99% 7.40 GPA
Hank Aaron Basic PSA 7-8(75%)
First off, I am honored in your presence as legendary forum members. Obviously I am a vintage dude. I do agree with both of you, collect what you like. I guess my perspective is I can't see someone spending big bucks on modern stuff, and the other side of the coin is that modern folks wonder how big bucks go down for vintage material. I think I got called out here, and appreciate the feedback. Bottom line, great hobby and I hope everyone can share as much enjoyment as possible with other people with their collections. I appreciate most folks here, as I know we share a true passion. Genre aside, the passion is the same. I could rant on and on as to way I think modern stuff is not desirable, but it would only apply to my opinion in the end. I have a new appreciation for it actually; in that I know that there alot of people here that share my passion in this hobby with simply just a different focus. Again thanks for the replies.
Best Regards,
Damian
<< <i>Could this be the one you bought??
1955 Mays PSA 6 >>
It sure looks the same to me.....woops!
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
Bosox1976
1957 Topps 99% 7.40 GPA
Hank Aaron Basic PSA 7-8(75%)
Looks to me that that's the card, but I have had cards is 6 holders before that I thought were graded but hung over PSA graders. Cracked after receiving and resubbed. Guess what? NMMT 8. Take a look at the scan in the auction. A little rough cut, which a grader would down grade it inexperienced our in a foul mood, but most vintage collectors and graders like. I am attaching a scan. Its a nice looking card.
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
Bosox1976
<< <i>I could rant on and on as to way I think modern stuff is not desirable >>
Damian
Your desire for only vintage is preference....
But, ya kinda threw down the gauntlet.
I've got no where to go - so I would be interested in why modern is "not" desirable.
As I said - IMO - it's apples and oranges.
"Both" are desirable to me.
On whether or not you got a good buy? I can't tell from the scan and await your personal findings.
I bought a raw T3 for 500$ - it came back a 6! On a good day that card could bring 2-3K or more?
So, I'm all ears on the desirability issue.
mike
I'm the poster child for the collect what you like crowd. I collect across the sprectrum -- Vintage, Modern, Non-sports. Why must the vintage centric guys always lead with -- hey shiny stuff collector or some other derrogatory comment? I just don't understand the disdain. It's simply a hobby and to each his own. No need to put others down while showing off what you purchased.
<< <i>LMM and Stone,
First off, I am honored in your presence as legendary forum members. Obviously I am a vintage dude. I do agree with both of you, collect what you like. I guess my perspective is I can't see someone spending big bucks on modern stuff, and the other side of the coin is that modern folks wonder how big bucks go down for vintage material. I think I got called out here, and appreciate the feedback. Bottom line, great hobby and I hope everyone can share as much enjoyment as possible with other people with their collections. I appreciate most folks here, as I know we share a true passion. Genre aside, the passion is the same. I could rant on and on as to way I think modern stuff is not desirable, but it would only apply to my opinion in the end. I have a new appreciation for it actually; in that I know that there alot of people here that share my passion in this hobby with simply just a different focus. Again thanks for the replies.
Best Regards,
Damian >>
Your a good guy! Thanks for taking the time to clarify
Matt
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
<< <i>Mickey,
Looks to me that that's the card, but I have had cards is 6 holders before that I thought were graded but hung over PSA graders. Cracked after receiving and resubbed. Guess what? NMMT 8. Take a look at the scan in the auction. A little rough cut, which a grader would down grade it inexperienced our in a foul mood, but most vintage collectors and graders like. I am attaching a scan. Its a nice looking card. >>
Damian,
You're right and should you decide to submit it, I would hope you would get a 7 or 8 on it. I hope you don't think I was calling you out - just trying to shed some light on the seller's business strategy.
Mike
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////
VERY smart/sharp seller.
There are those who play the "crack-and-resubmit" game.
And, there are those who play the "crack-and-don't-resubmit"
game.
I don't purchase much raw on Ebay, but I will never again make a decision without runnin' the item by the folks on this Board. But it wasn't a bad looking card.
by the folks on this Board. But it wasn't a bad looking card. "
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////
It is a good idea to get the free advice/opinions offered on this board.
I would never buy a high-dollar item without checking here first.
The subject card is CERTAINLY NOT "bad looking." It just looked better -
for $200.00 less - in a PSA holder.
Above: Sellers own comments
Even if it's "truthful" which in this case it appears that it is...the seller's own comment means the card ia a 6. Comments such as "touches" usually indicates a ding.
<< <i>"...just trying to shed some light on the seller's business strategy.'
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////
VERY smart/sharp seller.
There are those who play the "crack-and-resubmit" game.
And, there are those who play the "crack-and-don't-resubmit"
game.
Exactly right - designed to suck-in collectors who intend to submit the card to PSA thinking they are gonna make a quick profit. A very slick seller here. Not technically a scam, but certainly borderline.
-
bought
sold
I saw a few other cards that looked like they had been bleached as well. Either that or some serious photo shop work (but I would think that would lead to a few negs once the buyer saw the actual card).
<< <i>I am speechless - without speech. Someone buys a nice "raw" card and cites the link. Instantly, the forensic CUers spring into action and detect the darn card in a PSA holder sold a month ago! This has got to be the most fascinating and creatively effective group of folks that ever gathered on a web site. I am sincerely amazed - it's like a collectors MENSA.
I don't purchase much raw on Ebay, but I will never again make a decision without runnin' the item by the folks on this Board. But it wasn't a bad looking card. >>
Ben
Thanx! But for being speechless - ya coughed up 98 words worth of "without speech."
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>VERY smart/sharp seller. >>
No doubt.
Bosox1976
I beg to differ with you on that one. It's quite easy to make a mundane card look downright gorgeous and it has little to do with the lighting.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Bosox1976
<< <i>I have got to agree -- a '55 Mays in apparently NM or better condition? I'd think that the seller would have been wise to put it in a slab. As it is not in a slab, I'd wonder why. >>
DING DING DING
...and to think this actually started out as a thread bashing modern collectors! Do smart vintage collectors actually buy cards that aren't
slabbed anymore???
slabbed anymore??? "
//////////////////////////////////////////
I believe that it is VERY rarely "smart" to do so.
I would actually say "never safe," but I
suppose that is not true.
Any chance of a slight savings is FAR outweighed by...
* Chance of fake/altered card
* Chance that seller knows MUCH more about card than buyer
* Expense and hassle of submitting card to PSA
I think even folks who prefer raw-cards in their collections
should consider buying PSA-slabbed cards and cracking them out.
HOWEVER, this seller clearly makes the card look much more vibrant than any '55 Topps card we have ever seen. When I first saw the card, I thought it was clearly altered because no card as nice as this from the 50s is being sold raw by an experienced seller. However, his language is very measured and protects him legally, but I think he's a slimeball. It never entered my mind that there is a way to profit from buying slabbed and selling raw, but I guess if you've built up feedback and can cover your ass in the description, it's possible. Color me floored.
Lee
ps- I appreciate the irony of somebody coming on these boards and knocking people for their purchases, yet they could've had the same exact card for $210 less 20 days ago.
That's the kind of "photoshopping" that deserves the negative connotation, IMO.
I don't think anyone would fault a seller for trying to picture a card in the best possible light, but in this case, at least, it appears, the buyer got taken for a ride. Ironic, in a way, considering his initial post, which some perceived as a bit condescending (though, I too, am a vintage guy).
I guess the moral here is "buy the card, not the holder (but at least make sure the card is IN a holder for crying out loud)."
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I try to give the buyer an idea of what the card actually looks like. "
/////////////////////////////////////////////
That is what one is supposed to do.
The "crack and resell raw" biz-model has been going on for a long time.
The coin side has seen it for years; currency is seeing more and more of it.
On EBAY, most sellers either use an alt-ID, or wait at least 90-days to relist.
A 30-day wait escapes goofbay/tool-haus, and a high-volume seller will have
the transaction burried in FB within 30-days.
The only thing "wrong" with it is that it relies on the implication that the card
is better than the seller knows it to be. It also allows the seller to appear
very reliable/honest by offering an original/unaltered guarantee.
Usually, only new-collectors fall for the program, but sharpshooters can get
snagged too.
The ethics question boils down to what a seller is obligated to tell a buyer.
Defects should be revealed, but the subject seller can rely on his position that
he has a difference of opinion with the TPG as to the item's grade.
It is pretty bulletproof.
I agree with every word you say. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to burn my entire collection and take a bath in boiling water to cleanse myself.
Lee
Bosox, you were right on the money. They buy a nice looking slabbed 6, crack it, and get 7 money selling it raw. Nice call.
And great work by the board members who sniffed out the original purchase last month. This is like CSI Collector's Universe. Very cool.
Student, that's still a gorgeous card. I hope you get a 7 out of it if you submit it.
"Molon Labe"
<< <i>
<< <i>"...just trying to shed some light on the seller's business strategy.'
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////
VERY smart/sharp seller.
There are those who play the "crack-and-resubmit" game.
And, there are those who play the "crack-and-don't-resubmit"
game.
Exactly right - designed to suck-in collectors who intend to submit the card to PSA thinking they are gonna make a quick profit. A very slick seller here. Not technically a scam, but certainly borderline.
- >>
Exactly. But that all brings the issue back to one critical point, and that is this-- don't buy raw cards and expect them to be PSA 8 worthy unless you either a) have extensive past dealings with the seller, or b) have an enormous scan to work with. If you follow the 'PSA 6' rule, which basically states that there are no raw vintage star cards being sold on ebay by experienced sellers that would grade higher than a 6-- you will do just fine.
We can rail on about the seller-- he has no scruples, he's a borderline sleazebag, blah blah blah--but in the end complaining about shifty Ebay sellers is like complaining about the movement of glaciers. There's NOTHING you'll ever be able to do to stop it, so don't fret over it. It is worth noting, I might add, that the reason why these sellers continue to do a brisk trade is because there are enough people out there 'looking to turn a quick profit'-- in other words, enough people who have kidded themselves into believing that an experienced card dealer is going to leave $100's of dollars of equity on the table because they just can't be troubled with $12 in grading fees. The only way-- and I do mean the ONLY way-- that these kinds of selling practices will ever cease is if experienced hobbyists quit acting dumb and greedy, and trying to make $150 bucks with the click of a mouse. If that doesn't stop, then this kind of selling will never stop. Ever.
<< <i>I love seeing hobby karma in action. >>
Could not have said it better.
studentT206, you smarmy bastidge. You should not come on here and brag when you just got taken. I know you're reading this as 164 posts in 22 months shows you stick around.
I am not a "modern" guy. But I would never throw down the gauntlet like you did. WTF were you thinking? Sucks you got taken, but maybe a lesson learned for all that post and read here. Don't brag about your buys, don't under estimate the boards detective skills, and don't try to justify that what you collect is BETTER!
Cheers,
Jordan
My Auctions
Agree completely. When you entitle a thread "Hey shiny stuff collectors..." you ought to make sure you know what you're talking about...
& buying a PSA 6 card that's been cracked out at NM money is not the swiftest buy of the year. Better luck next time...
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>"...just trying to shed some light on the seller's business strategy.'
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////
VERY smart/sharp seller.
There are those who play the "crack-and-resubmit" game.
And, there are those who play the "crack-and-don't-resubmit"
game.
Exactly right - designed to suck-in collectors who intend to submit the card to PSA thinking they are gonna make a quick profit. A very slick seller here. Not technically a scam, but certainly borderline.
- >>
Exactly. But that all brings the issue back to one critical point, and that is this-- don't buy raw cards and expect them to be PSA 8 worthy unless you either a) have extensive past dealings with the seller, or b) have an enormous scan to work with. If you follow the 'PSA 6' rule, which basically states that there are no raw vintage star cards being sold on ebay by experienced sellers that would grade higher than a 6-- you will do just fine.
We can rail on about the seller-- he has no scruples, he's a borderline sleazebag, blah blah blah--but in the end complaining about shifty Ebay sellers is like complaining about the movement of glaciers. There's NOTHING you'll ever be able to do to stop it, so don't fret over it. It is worth noting, I might add, that the reason why these sellers continue to do a brisk trade is because there are enough people out there 'looking to turn a quick profit'-- in other words, enough people who have kidded themselves into believing that an experienced card dealer is going to leave $100's of dollars of equity on the table because they just can't be troubled with $12 in grading fees. The only way-- and I do mean the ONLY way-- that these kinds of selling practices will ever cease is if experienced hobbyists quit acting dumb and greedy, and trying to make $150 bucks with the click of a mouse. If that doesn't stop, then this kind of selling will never stop. Ever. >>
Excellent commentary! Also this seller's chosen ebay name "great_lakes_auction_house" helps perpetrate all this with the "babe in the woods" routine in getting buyers to possibly think that perhaps some little old lady from Muskegon consigned her inherited cards to some "auction house"
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