<< <i>Are there any veterans here ? Military men/women ? Cops ? Business Owners ? Students ? Parents ? Ya'll must be laughing about those who carry on about the RULES and opinions of Management. The rules here are too easy to follow. Those who argue with the opinion of the management team are missing the boat. (actually, they're trying to CAPSIZE it )
Remember the wizard of oz ? THE OZ HAS SPOKEN ! It's pretty simple to understand those who want to CHALLENGE AUTHORITY are gonna get picked up by flying monkeys and hauled outta here. This place is awesome and the rules are fair.
Go ahead, bite that hand, but what purpose does it serve ? >>
Those that challenge authority seem to be the most admired people in history (not necessarily numismatic history however)
I guess nothing if you shorted it from the high of around 22 to the current 13 or so LINK
Are they proud of a 40+% drop? I guess it sort of mirrors the hickey "early adopters" take buying "hot potato" high grade modern crap where the pops steadily keep rising & the prices steadily keep falling (the MS70 SF Lincolns & the 1999-S Close AM Lincoln Proofs just TWO cases in point)!
What are they doing to IMPROVE MY investment?!
"Insider Sentiment It has been over a year since an insider at CLCT has made a purchase of company stock. The last buy occurred when HAYNES MICHAEL R purchased 1,000 shares on September 16, 2005. Over the last 5 years insiders have on average purchased 12,200 shares each year."
8M+ shares outstanding = approx 72M in market value that evaporated over the last 2 years!
p.s. "First...three rules...
1. The PCGS message board is for talking about and sharing information about coins, including info about the market"
Yes, the market INCLUDES what the MARKET thinks CLCT is worth because all they do or do not do (& when & how) with respect to coins has a direct effect on their market value.
Wow. The old women arguing again have almost destroyed this forum. I haven't been on here since the flame thread about the young man who lost his arm after the Baltimore show. I love coins, but to get totally riled up and out of control over the subject is near pathological.
Please ban Legend. Her contributions to this forum have and are nothing but negative. It would serve this forum well to no longer have her as a member.
<< <i>1. The PCGS message board is for talking about and sharing information about coins, including info about the market and collecting and collectors. If you want to talk about sports, politics, or other non-numismatic topics, please go somewhere else.
2. No profanity...there are young numismatists that are on our boards. If you can't watch your language, you will be banned from the boards.
3. No PCGS bashing of any kind. If you want to rag on us, go somewhere else. If you have a customer service problem, call customer service. If you have a suggestion, email PCGS President Ron Guth. Any threads that bash PCGS in any way will be deleted and anyone who bashes PCGS will be banned from furhter use of our message boards...and no warning will be given. >>
My poll broke none of these rules in any way what so ever.
<< <i>1. The PCGS message board is for talking about and sharing information about coins, including info about the market and collecting and collectors. If you want to talk about sports, politics, or other non-numismatic topics, please go somewhere else.
2. No profanity...there are young numismatists that are on our boards. If you can't watch your language, you will be banned from the boards.
3. No PCGS bashing of any kind. If you want to rag on us, go somewhere else. If you have a customer service problem, call customer service. If you have a suggestion, email PCGS President Ron Guth. Any threads that bash PCGS in any way will be deleted and anyone who bashes PCGS will be banned from furhter use of our message boards...and no warning will be given. >>
My poll broke none of these rules in any way what so ever. >>
yes they did (the spirit of the rules) >>
Wha? You're stretching now Mr.ArtificiallyTonerofCoins
Please ban Legend. Her contributions to this forum have and are nothing but negative. It would serve this forum well to no longer have her as a member. >>
This is real positive response. Cladiator you just dont get it do you??? >>
Trying to cut out a cancer like Legend is a very positive thing. If it's left the body will die.
<< <i>I respect you clad, but how can you ban one of the top dealers in the world? >>
If I'm not mistaken, she has been banned before, but was allowed to come back after a period of time.
Cheryl........."She was not quite what you would call refined. She was not quite what you would call unrefined. She was the kind of person that keeps a parrot." - Mark Twain
Dont you think it would be a loss to everyone ? You can either love her or hate her , but you gotta respect her! >>
Do I think it would be a loss? No. Don't get me wrong, I'm not in favor of it. I just don't think it would matter much. After two or three years of reading about wannabes, I still don't know who any of them are. Stuff like that is useless.
Do I think it would be a loss? No. Don't get me wrong, I'm not in favor of it. I just don't think it would matter much. After two or three years of reading about wannabes, I still don't know who any of them are. Stuff like that is useless.
Point taken. For what its worth I would like to see you as a moderator. I bet you would be a fair one.
Dont you think it would be a loss to everyone ? You can either love her or hate her , but you gotta respect her! >>
Do I think it would be a loss? No. Don't get me wrong, I'm not in favor of it. I just don't think it would matter much. After two or three years of reading about wannabes, I still don't know who any of them are. Stuff like that is useless. >>
Same thing about the big dealers that AT coins. But, remember, they will kill to remain anonymous.
<< <i>Do I think it would be a loss? No. Don't get me wrong, I'm not in favor of it. I just don't think it would matter much. After two or three years of reading about wannabes, I still don't know who any of them are. Stuff like that is useless.
Point taken. For what its worth I would like to see you as a moderator. I bet you would be a fair one. >>
Thanks, but I wouldn't be much good at it.. I've been here a long time and there are a lot of people I like. I couldn't be even-handed about it.
I should have been more clear. The idiots I was referring to are the people that continue to push and push. It seems that they almost want the board closed down. I was not including everyone in that idiot remark. Sorry if I offended.
I respect the passion of the people who push. It's great that people feel passionately about this board. What I don't like is the "suicide by moderator" that I've seen some people engage in. You can have a reasonable discussion about the rules without castigating everyone around you and trying to bring the whole board crashing down around your head. Some of the initial bans were, IMHO, not well-advised. But some of the later bans, of people going out in a "blaze of glory" just make sense. Some people (again, IMO) did the best they could and got caught up by an overzealous interpretation of the rules. However, some people just decided to wear "Kick Me" signs on their backs, while jumping up and down screaming, "Kick me!".
If you haven't noticed, I'm single and miserable and I've got four albums of bitching about it that I would offer as proof.
They're completely wrong thinking what happens here doesn't affect submissions. I know several people who were banned that no longer submit to PCGS at all and I can say definitevly that I myself have curbed my submissions considerably due to the heavy handed moderating here.
As far as I'm concerned, PCGS isn't doing collectors a favor providing these boards for free. Collectors are doing PCGS a favor providing content for free.
<< <i>They're completely wrong thinking what happens here doesn't affect submissions. I know several people who were banned that no longer submit to PCGS at all and I can say definitevly that I myself have curbed my submissions considerably due to the heavy handed moderating here.
As far as I'm concerned, PCGS isn't doing collectors a favor providing these boards for free. Collectors are doing PCGS a favor providing content for free. >>
This has always been a useful place for the hobby but closing this forum wouldn't hurt collectors that much. There are plenty of other forums out there that people could migrate to. I think the hobby would manage somehow to survive if PCGS closed this place. My opinion is that closing it would probably hurt PCGS more than the hobby but I could, of course, be wrong.
Time sure flies when you don't know what you're doing... My Web Sites
<< <i>Reading through some of these posts it's really not hard to understand why PCGS had thoughts about shutting this place down.
The new rules post has simply turned into a new bash PCGS and Legend post.
It's a shame that a minoroty group of negative minded individuals can really ruin something that could otherwise be great. >>
I believe the true shame would be someone being short-sighted enough to dump the whole place because of "a minoroty group of negative minded individuals."
My comments below were also placed in the "Dear Mr. Hall" thread. I am pasting them here in case TPTB only read this thread.
Let me add the two cents of a casual lurker who has a significant coin collection heavily in PCGS.
I would take a very negative view of PCGS if they closed down these boards.
The bottom line is that, while there is no directly attributed financial value to PCGS from the boards, there is significant customer and collector goodwill.
I think if the company ended these boards, they would be cutting off their nose to spite their face.
Obviously, there are many more collectors than post here. However, the people here truly are among the movers and shakers; the opinion makers, in the coin community. We probably don't make up 5 percent of their slab income but we do make up, I think, probably around 25 percent of influential opinion.
Here's a better analogy. If you are a dealer's good client (and I mean you are one of their top buyers) and they know you are going to be at a show in a major city, that dealer SHOULD be thinking about buying you dinner at a nice place once a year for good rapport. These boards, IMHO, are a similar situation for PCGS in terms of thought leaders in the numismatic community.
Home Run, if you're reading this, please don't ban me. I fully respect your company's right to do what you want to do with any expense affecting your bottom line. I fully respect your right to set the rules for participation and I hope that I've always honored them and will continue to do so. At the same time, I hope you realize and understand as one of the Mount Rushmore of the numismatic industry in the last 25 years that the people who participate here are a very important and key part of your market. These boards are like taking many of your best customers out to dinner.
I hope in a couple of days I am still able to post.
<< <i>They are a cost of money and time to maintain and frankly, they don't seem to generate any significant revenue. >>
I think you are clearly mistaken on this point. You are very wrong if you think collectors are not drawn to your products upon discovery of these forums and find themselves "hanging out" here every day. That is unless you mean by not generating "significant revenue" you're implying the forums fail to attract dealers with bottomless pockets and us lowly collectors (maybe also known as the "end users" of your products) are nothing to you.
Edit: BTW, Even though I don't generate "significant revenue" for you people, my significant collection is 100% PCGS graded. I get the distinct feeling as time goes on that my faith in your service is not appreciated at all.
FWIW, five years ago I considered the top two grading services to be essentially equal, and most of our customer felt the same way. We certified coins for the store from both services, with a tendency towards NGC because of faster turnaround.
In the past year I have had customers tell me that they would have bought such and such a coin if only it were in a PCGS holder. The reverse has not occurred. Obviously public perception has shifted, and we are shifting our submissions accordingly. It is my opinion that the CU message boards are part of this shift in perception.
The U.S. Coin Forum is a great source of numismatic information, to which I am happy to contribute to when appropriate. It is also a source of bad puns and some occasional kvetching. I think that both the puns and the kvetching can be tolerated, within reason.
TD TYY
Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Also won the PNG's Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
1) This is America, people can, will and do say what they want. That's part of what makes this country great.
2) If people want to say something, about PCGS or NGC or whomever, they are going to say it, whether it be here or somewhere else.
3) I like this board because I like talking about coins. Everyone here likes talking about coins. That's one of the best parts of coin collecting.
4)Where better can all of the greatest numismatists get together and chat about coins or teach us not so knowledgable people about coins?
5) Where better can people brag about their coins? Coin collecting is useless if you can't brag about them.
6) Let's face it, coin grading is an interesting concept. It is healthy for it to be debated.
7) Before this forum, coin collecting was different. Collectors need this forum. It's truly a great one, and one of the only ones I've personally ever used.
8) In my opinion, Keep the forum open! Don't be insecure if people complain. It's part of life and part of having a healthy psyche. Everyone here loves collectors.com. Trust me.
Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Also won the PNG's Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
Comments
<< <i>Can't we all just get along?
TDL >>
Mint state grading, slabs and conflict are closely tied together and will never be undone as I see it.
<< <i>
<< <i>Are there any veterans here ? Military men/women ? Cops ? Business Owners ? Students ? Parents ? Ya'll must be laughing about those who carry on about the RULES and opinions of Management.
The rules here are too easy to follow. Those who argue with the opinion of the management team are missing the boat. (actually, they're trying to CAPSIZE it )
Remember the wizard of oz ? THE OZ HAS SPOKEN ! It's pretty simple to understand those who want to CHALLENGE AUTHORITY are gonna get picked up by flying monkeys and hauled outta here.
This place is awesome and the rules are fair.
Go ahead, bite that hand, but what purpose does it serve ? >>
Those that challenge authority seem to be the most admired people in history (not necessarily numismatic history however)
<< <i>The 2-year chart for CLCT doesn't look pretty.
What's wrong with their chart?
Jerry
<< <i>
<< <i>The 2-year chart for CLCT doesn't look pretty.
What's wrong with their chart?
Jerry >>
I suspect it shows that CLCT stock has not been a great investment over the years.
I guess nothing if you shorted it from the high of around 22 to the current 13 or so LINK
Are they proud of a 40+% drop? I guess it sort of mirrors the hickey "early adopters" take buying "hot potato" high grade modern crap where the pops steadily keep rising & the prices steadily keep falling (the MS70 SF Lincolns & the 1999-S Close AM Lincoln Proofs just TWO cases in point)!
What are they doing to IMPROVE MY investment?!
"Insider Sentiment
It has been over a year since an insider at CLCT has made a purchase of company stock. The last buy occurred when HAYNES MICHAEL R purchased 1,000 shares on September 16, 2005. Over the last 5 years insiders have on average purchased 12,200 shares each year."
8M+ shares outstanding = approx 72M in market value that evaporated over the last 2 years!
p.s. "First...three rules...
1. The PCGS message board is for talking about and sharing information about coins, including info about the market"
Yes, the market INCLUDES what the MARKET thinks CLCT is worth because all they do or do not do (& when & how) with respect to coins has a direct effect on their market value.
Jerry
Vietnam Vet 1968-1969
<< <i>If you don't like the rules.....just leave. Period. What's so hard? Idiots. >>
Easy there Kurt...
There are a lot of people involved that are far from idiots.
PCGS drew a line---fair enough
Time will tell if it was a good move or not.
Please ban Legend. Her contributions to this forum have and are nothing but negative. It would serve this forum well to no longer have her as a member.
<< <i>1. The PCGS message board is for talking about and sharing information about coins, including info about the market and collecting and collectors. If you want to talk about sports, politics, or other non-numismatic topics, please go somewhere else.
2. No profanity...there are young numismatists that are on our boards. If you can't watch your language, you will be banned from the boards.
3. No PCGS bashing of any kind. If you want to rag on us, go somewhere else. If you have a customer service problem, call customer service. If you have a suggestion, email PCGS President Ron Guth. Any threads that bash PCGS in any way will be deleted and anyone who bashes PCGS will be banned from furhter use of our message boards...and no warning will be given. >>
My poll broke none of these rules in any way what so ever.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>1. The PCGS message board is for talking about and sharing information about coins, including info about the market and collecting and collectors. If you want to talk about sports, politics, or other non-numismatic topics, please go somewhere else.
2. No profanity...there are young numismatists that are on our boards. If you can't watch your language, you will be banned from the boards.
3. No PCGS bashing of any kind. If you want to rag on us, go somewhere else. If you have a customer service problem, call customer service. If you have a suggestion, email PCGS President Ron Guth. Any threads that bash PCGS in any way will be deleted and anyone who bashes PCGS will be banned from furhter use of our message boards...and no warning will be given. >>
My poll broke none of these rules in any way what so ever. >>
yes they did (the spirit of the rules) >>
Wha? You're stretching now Mr.ArtificiallyTonerofCoins
<< <i>
<< <i>Dear PCGS....
Please ban Legend. Her contributions to this forum have and are nothing but negative. It would serve this forum well to no longer have her as a member. >>
This is real positive response. Cladiator you just dont get it do you??? >>
Trying to cut out a cancer like Legend is a very positive thing. If it's left the body will die.
<< <i>BY CLADIATOR I REALLY DO HOPE YOU GET BANNED. >>
I really do hope you're not atificially toning coins and selling them for profit anymore. Good bye.
<< <i>I respect you clad, but how can you ban one of the top dealers in the world? >>
If I'm not mistaken, she has been banned before, but was allowed to come back after a period of time.
Cher-Wood Forest Aviary
POTD - May 26, 2005
<< <i>I respect you clad, but how can you ban one of the top dealers in the world? >>
With a few clicks of a mouse?
Dont you think it would be a loss to everyone ? You can either love her or hate her , but you gotta respect her!
<< <i>With a few clicks of a mouse?
Dont you think it would be a loss to everyone ? You can either love her or hate her , but you gotta respect her! >>
Do I think it would be a loss? No. Don't get me wrong, I'm not in favor of it. I just don't think it would matter much. After two or three years of reading about wannabes, I still don't know who any of them are. Stuff like that is useless.
<< <i>I respect you clad, but how can you ban one of the top dealers in the world? >>
One simple push of the button.
Point taken. For what its worth I would like to see you as a moderator. I bet you would be a fair one.
<< <i>
<< <i>With a few clicks of a mouse?
Dont you think it would be a loss to everyone ? You can either love her or hate her , but you gotta respect her! >>
Do I think it would be a loss? No. Don't get me wrong, I'm not in favor of it. I just don't think it would matter much. After two or three years of reading about wannabes, I still don't know who any of them are. Stuff like that is useless. >>
Same thing about the big dealers that AT coins. But, remember, they will kill to remain anonymous.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/publishedset/209923
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/album/209923
<< <i>Do I think it would be a loss? No. Don't get me wrong, I'm not in favor of it. I just don't think it would matter much. After two or three years of reading about wannabes, I still don't know who any of them are. Stuff like that is useless.
Point taken. For what its worth I would like to see you as a moderator. I bet you would be a fair one. >>
Thanks, but I wouldn't be much good at it.. I've been here a long time and there are a lot of people I like. I couldn't be even-handed about it.
SAVE THE FORUMS...
SAVE THE FORUMS!
-- Adam Duritz, of Counting Crows
My Ebay Auctions
As far as I'm concerned, PCGS isn't doing collectors a favor providing these boards for free. Collectors are doing PCGS a favor providing content for free.
<< <i>They're completely wrong thinking what happens here doesn't affect submissions. I know several people who were banned that no longer submit to PCGS at all and I can say definitevly that I myself have curbed my submissions considerably due to the heavy handed moderating here.
As far as I'm concerned, PCGS isn't doing collectors a favor providing these boards for free. Collectors are doing PCGS a favor providing content for free. >>
This has always been a useful place for the hobby but closing this forum wouldn't hurt collectors that much. There are plenty of other forums out there that people could migrate to. I think the hobby would manage somehow to survive if PCGS closed this place.
My Web Sites
The new rules post has simply turned into a new bash PCGS and Legend post.
It's a shame that a minoroty group of negative minded individuals can really ruin something that could otherwise be great.
<< <i>Reading through some of these posts it's really not hard to understand why PCGS had thoughts about shutting this place down.
The new rules post has simply turned into a new bash PCGS and Legend post.
It's a shame that a minoroty group of negative minded individuals can really ruin something that could otherwise be great. >>
I believe the true shame would be someone being short-sighted enough to dump the whole place because of "a minoroty group of negative minded individuals."
Its the few weeds in the rose garden that keeps on screaming "something stinks...and I MUST do something about it!"
edited to add ....of all the gall!
<< <i>No more drama, please! >>
We can start by stop posting to this thread.
<< <i>
<< <i>No more drama, please! >>
We can start by stop posting to this thread. >>
What in hell is stop posting???
Let me add the two cents of a casual lurker who has a significant coin collection heavily in PCGS.
I would take a very negative view of PCGS if they closed down these boards.
The bottom line is that, while there is no directly attributed financial value to PCGS from the boards, there is significant customer and collector goodwill.
I think if the company ended these boards, they would be cutting off their nose to spite their face.
Obviously, there are many more collectors than post here. However, the people here truly are among the movers and shakers; the opinion makers, in the coin community. We probably don't make up 5 percent of their slab income but we do make up, I think, probably around 25 percent of influential opinion.
Here's a better analogy. If you are a dealer's good client (and I mean you are one of their top buyers) and they know you are going to be at a show in a major city, that dealer SHOULD be thinking about buying you dinner at a nice place once a year for good rapport. These boards, IMHO, are a similar situation for PCGS in terms of thought leaders in the numismatic community.
Home Run, if you're reading this, please don't ban me. I fully respect your company's right to do what you want to do with any expense affecting your bottom line. I fully respect your right to set the rules for participation and I hope that I've always honored them and will continue to do so. At the same time, I hope you realize and understand as one of the Mount Rushmore of the numismatic industry in the last 25 years that the people who participate here are a very important and key part of your market. These boards are like taking many of your best customers out to dinner.
I hope in a couple of days I am still able to post.
Wah wah wah wah, wah wah wah, wah wah wah wah.
Self Indulgence | Holey Coins | Flickr Photostream
<< <i>They are a cost of money and time to maintain and frankly, they don't seem to generate any significant revenue. >>
I think you are clearly mistaken on this point. You are very wrong if you think collectors are not drawn to your products upon discovery of these forums and find themselves
"hanging out" here every day. That is unless you mean by not generating "significant revenue" you're implying the forums fail to attract dealers with bottomless pockets and
us lowly collectors (maybe also known as the "end users" of your products) are nothing to you.
Edit: BTW, Even though I don't generate "significant revenue" for you people, my significant collection is 100% PCGS graded. I get the distinct feeling as time goes on that
my faith in your service is not appreciated at all.
In the past year I have had customers tell me that they would have bought such and such a coin if only it were in a PCGS holder. The reverse has not occurred. Obviously public perception has shifted, and we are shifting our submissions accordingly. It is my opinion that the CU message boards are part of this shift in perception.
The U.S. Coin Forum is a great source of numismatic information, to which I am happy to contribute to when appropriate. It is also a source of bad puns and some occasional kvetching. I think that both the puns and the kvetching can be tolerated, within reason.
TD
TYY
EDIT: I always wanted to do that
<< <i>200
EDIT: I always wanted to do that >>
Now that is funny
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
1) This is America, people can, will and do say what they want. That's part of what makes this country great.
2) If people want to say something, about PCGS or NGC or whomever, they are going to say it, whether it be here or somewhere else.
3) I like this board because I like talking about coins. Everyone here likes talking about coins. That's one of the best parts of coin collecting.
4)Where better can all of the greatest numismatists get together and chat about coins or teach us not so knowledgable people about coins?
5) Where better can people brag about their coins? Coin collecting is useless if you can't brag about them.
6) Let's face it, coin grading is an interesting concept. It is healthy for it to be debated.
7) Before this forum, coin collecting was different. Collectors need this forum. It's truly a great one, and one of the only ones I've personally ever used.
8) In my opinion, Keep the forum open! Don't be insecure if people complain. It's part of life and part of having a healthy psyche. Everyone here loves collectors.com. Trust me.
<< <i>This will make a good cheat thread now.
edited to add. Oops.
Forget the cheat thread stuff, it ttt's just fine.