In God We Trust...
fastrudy
Posts: 2,096 ✭
Just received an e-mail regarding removal of this motto from money.
Being brought up in a religous environment, and knowing the founding fathers were believers in a god, I can justify why it should remain.
Being a really good American, I can see why it must be removed.
I KNOW you all have opinions on this one, let's hear them.
Please let me know if you think a revision is needed, maybe in capitalism we trust, or republicans, or gold.
Being brought up in a religous environment, and knowing the founding fathers were believers in a god, I can justify why it should remain.
Being a really good American, I can see why it must be removed.
I KNOW you all have opinions on this one, let's hear them.
Please let me know if you think a revision is needed, maybe in capitalism we trust, or republicans, or gold.
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<< <i>I KNOW you all have opinions on this one, let's hear them. >>
It's my opinion that it should remain on our coinage.
I cannot even fathom just what such a statement means.
Put me down with Cladiator and Barndog. Our motto should remain.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I'm in the keep it camp
<< <i>Just received an e-mail regarding removal of this motto from money.
Being brought up in a religous environment, and knowing the founding fathers were believers in a god, I can justify why it should remain.
Being a really good American, I can see why it must be removed.
I KNOW you all have opinions on this one, let's hear them.
Please let me know if you think a revision is needed, maybe in capitalism we trust, or republicans, or gold. >>
are you saying we should trust Republicans?
Doesn't matter to me one way or the other.
Herb
The Founders kept references to God and religion off the money from the start, on principle. Like our Pledge, the money wasn't turned into a Government-sponsored endorsement of monotheism until later on.
There is no need to not be all-inclusive with our money and to work to keep Government out of the religion business - that is the basic principle by which the Founders kept God OFF the money. That would be the wiset thing to do to keep us free from the danger of religion in bed with Government, which is why the Founders kept it off to begin with. Same thing for the Pledge - no need to make something iall-nclusive into a monotheistic prayer, which is why THAT was also originally without religion injected into it.
Have a Great Day!
Louis
<< <i>Being a really good American, I can see why it must be removed. >>
OK, why?
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
John Adams and George Washington probably would not have had a problem with it though. President Washington might have had a problem with our quarters of today.
Anyways, the motto was added to our coins in 1864, so the founding fathers had little to do with it, I would think.
I have no real opinion either way.
I do however, have a problem with the omission of the word "Liberty" from the new presidential dollars. Liberty, above all, is what our founding fathers wanted. If they had to remove something from the coin to get everything to fit, I would rather that they had removed the motto that was added in the 1860s, not the glorious single word that so epitomized our founding fathers' real dream on our coins since 1792.
But that's just my thoughts.
-Amanda
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<< <i>I do however, have a problem with the omission of the word "Liberty" from the new presidential dollars. Liberty, above all, is what our founding fathers wanted. If they had to remove something from the coin to get everything to fit, I would rather that they had removed the motto that was added in the 1860s, not the glorious single word that so epitomized our founding fathers' real dream on our coins since 1792.
-Amanda >>
That is a very well put comment.
John Adams and George Washington probably would not have had a problem with it though. President Washington might have had a problem with our quarters of today.
Anyways, the motto was added to our coins in 1864, so the founding fathers had little to do with it, I would think.
I have no real opinion either way.
I do however, have a problem with the omission of the word "Liberty" from the new presidential dollars. Liberty, above all, is what our founding fathers wanted. If they had to remove something from the coin to get everything to fit, I would rather that they had removed the motto that was added in the 1860s, not the glorious single word that so epitomized our founding fathers' real dream on our coins since 1792.
But that's just my thoughts.
Amanda"
From the mouths of babes. Perhaps the greatest wisdom expressed here, and from one of our youngest members. Well said, Amanda.
<< <i>"Being a really good American, I can see why it must be removed."
I cannot even fathom just what such a statement means.
Put me down with Cladiator and Barndog. Our motto should remain. >>
Put me down with MrHalfDime. Our motto should remain.
Tom
The fact is folks, it was only in the last 35 years that the Supreme Court has been employing this theory of the absolute pure separation of church and state. For the first 190 years, we had a looser approach and one that was also consistent with what the constitution actually says. All it says is that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion." For most of our history, that was understood to mean that the government cannot establish a state religion. No Church of England, no Church of Sweden, no Iran, etc. etc. Not that you can't ever have anything even slightly religious in the huge public square.
For those who are in favor of getting rid of In God We Trust, I assume you're also in favor of getting rid of the tax exemption for religious institutions, removing the names of religious figures from streets and holidays (that would mean getting rid of Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr. Day too -- but I don't see too many liberals proposing that), getting rid of college scholarships like Pell Grants that can be used at religiously-owned colleges, and a whole lot of other things. Separation means separation, right? If In God We Trust violates the Constitution, it's hard to see how those other things don't also.
You're a dingbat.
<< <i>Just received an e-mail regarding removal of this motto from money.
Being brought up in a religous environment, and knowing the founding fathers were believers in a god, I can justify why it should remain.
Being a really good American, I can see why it must be removed.
I KNOW you all have opinions on this one, let's hear them.
Please let me know if you think a revision is needed, maybe in capitalism we trust, or republicans, or gold. >>
I noticed you spelled God with a little 'g'....that tells me something.
Please check the link below for some history of God on our coinage.
In God We Trust
<< <i>For those who are in favor of getting rid of In God We Trust, I assume you're also in favor of getting rid of the tax exemption for religious institutions, removing the names of religious figures from streets and holidays (that would mean getting rid of Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr. Day too -- but I don't see too many liberals proposing that), getting rid of college scholarships like Pell Grants that can be used at religiously-owned colleges, and a whole lot of other things. Separation means separation, right? If In God We Trust violates the Constitution, it's hard to see how those other things don't also.
You're a dingbat. >>
Well, I am a lawyer... though you didn't answer the question and I assume you are not (a lawyer -- whether you're a dingbat, we'll soon find out). If the Constitution mandates a total separation of church and state, please explain to me why the above argument is wrong.
I'll use an analogy. I went to Catholic high school. Consequently, most of my friends from that period were Catholic. One of my frequent expressions of disgust or frustration has always been, "Je*** F***ing Chr***!". This would invariably upset her if I said it in front of her. My usual response to this was, "Why should you care if I blaspheme? If there's a Hell, I've obviously already got a box seat there, and that particular name has no more meaning to me than if I'd said 'Santa F***ing Claus!'." The point is the same in both cases: The motto is meaningless to people who don't believe, and those who do believe don't need coins to remind them. So what purpose does it serve? Does a deity protect a nation to any greater degree if they have the motto on their coinage, regardless of the beliefs of the actual citizens (which, of course, an omniscient god would already know)?
To me, it's just a showy thing to tell other nations, "God is on our side! Nyeah, nyeah, nyeah!!"
-- Adam Duritz, of Counting Crows
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This is where you are mistaken. You are a dingbat.
<< <i>Well, I am a lawyer
This is where you are mistaken. You are a dingbat. >>
What a compelling argument. You've really won me over.
In God we trust, all others pay cash.
<< <i>
I saw a greater display of intellect from the monkeys at the zoo this weekend.
I don't need my money to remind me what I believe.
It's my personal believe that anyone who truly has a belief and is secure with it does not need the government to remind them of that fact. If they need to use the money to spread that belief, then that, as well, is completely wrong.
2) I hate some of the posts on this thread
3) I am not a lawyer
4) One day some folks are in for quite a SHOCK.
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Can't argue with that.
edited to correct spelling.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
<< <i>2ndR, to be serious for a moment, I would like to debate you but this is a coin forum and this thread would go way off topic if I were to take the bait you offered. There are some items on your list with which I agree, others I with which I do not. >>
The list is obviously meant to show that true separation is impossible and undesirable... and so we make compromises in the middle. Frankly, I think we've done just fine with this motto for the last 140+ years, and I don't see any Constitutional or practical necessity to make the change.
I wonder if there was some discussion at the mint as to what elements of the motto to remove. Was IGWT retained because it would have been politcally impossible to do otherwise?
What are you saying here?
Why not restore the legends to their original content and leave religious belief to the conscience of the individual. Is this not one of the liberties we have as Americans? Is there not something contradictory in the inclusion of both e pluribus unum and IGWT?
<< <i>I noticed you spelled God with a little 'g'....that tells me something. >>
I noticed that he wrote this sentence:
"Being brought up in a religous environment, and knowing the founding fathers were believers in a god, I can justify why it should remain."
The phrase "a god" refers to the general idea of a deity; capitalizing God refers to a specific deity. It may be minor, but the significance is important. Perhaps what he said is more telling than you originally thought. His idea of "a god" allows for multiple interpretations of what God means, which shows that there is no blanket God in which the people of America trust.
It must really make some of them mad that the word Christmas is being used again this year. Many shopping centers and stores tried dumping the word Christmas last year, but they were sent a message by the public.
IN GOD WE TRUST may have not always been on our coins, but dead presidents weren't on our coins either. I would rather see them dump the dead presidents than dump GOD!
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
<< <i>They have kicked God out of our schools, they have kicked God out of our public places, our children are not allowed to pray in school. >>
I've prayed in school. Just not school-sponsored. Being religious in public is NOT illegal; requiring people to be religious in public is.
The Founding Fathers also specifically disallowed religious instruction in the first tax-funded public school system, referrencing the First Amendment as the chief obstacle to it being the principled thing to do. Keeping religion on a leash and out of bed with Government was the revolutionary thing that made them radicals and made us unique. See: School Act 1815 for details.
People who think God should be kept on the coinage are being selfish because they are putting their own feelings over and above the principle of being all-inclusive and respecting the principles behind the Founders decision NOT to include it on the coinage during a time when it would have been very easy to.
<< <i>Just received an e-mail regarding removal of this motto from money. >>
Email probably started from some right wing nutzo group who wants a one-party country and is SO ticked over the elections they have to turn it into a "THE END OF MORAL CIVILIZATION" kind of thing and they're just using this as an "example"
Reality check:
The motto isn't going anywhere. Like it or not, and however you interpret it or whatever it means to you, it's on our coins and it will be for AT LEAST a long time. Sure, some crazy leftie in Congress MIGHT propose it's removal... MIGHT... but it'd go NOWHERE. Wouldn't even get out of a committee. It would have the fate of a ZILLION other bills introduced in Congress every year. Gets proposed, some Congressman gets his blow-hard speech written into the Congressional Record, and you never hear of the bill again. Although of course with something like this, the press would have a field day. "Congress Considering Removing God from Coinage!!". TONS of "Letters to the Editor" would be written. Dumb-ass threads like this one would be all over the Internet. Pundits would appear on news shows. All over a bill that has about as much chance of becoming law as a proposal to make Ted Bundy's birthday a national holiday.
We have this wonderful freedom of religion in America.
I agree with it. Everybody should have the right to their own beliefs.
Some Americans believe that the inclusion of the motto on our coins is an intrusion into their right not to believe in a god. That is why, as a good American, I can see their point of view and I stated the motto should be removed. The Constitution is interpreted by them to separate religion from government. I agree with the Constitution.
Rudy
Very nice responses. Everybody is entitled to his/her opinion.
Thank you
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References to God do not belong in our coins. Im not offended by the Motto in any way, but I do understand the principle of separation of Church and State.
<< <i>I've prayed in school. Just not school-sponsored. Being religious in public is NOT illegal; requiring people to be religious in public is. >>
Good for you, but you need to be quiet so nobody else knows you're praying. You can't spread your beliefs in a public place and that is part of the reason why our society seems to get worse every year.
By allowing God in public is not the same a government sponsored. The church of England was government sponsored. The anti-God attitude is a church of atheism--isn't that worse?
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
<< <i>Good for you, but you need to be quiet so nobody else knows you're praying. You can't spread your beliefs in a public place and that is part of the reason why our society seems to get worse every year. >>
Wrong, there are religious clubs in many public schools. They have meeting, in school property, and the school knows that they exist. The clubs are allowed to exist, and students are allowed to pray in public. The only thing that cant happen is the school (administration) endorcing a specific religion.