As a seller & you figured out you were cherried before you ship the coin
gtstang
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Would you still ship it?
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<< <i>Would you still ship it? >>
Absolutely. You've gotta be very, very careful when you put something online. The first rule of auctioning something off is decide you don't want to keep it first.
-- Adam Duritz, of Counting Crows
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<< <i>Not that simple to answer. If the value difference was less than say a couple hundred bucks I would send it with a note congratulating them on their cherry. On the other hand, if this was a substantial sum, say a cheerio sac sold for $15, I would not ship the coin. Yeah, I'm pretty strong on integrity, but integrity begins with being honest with yourself and being able to recognize what is in your best interest. >>
It would be in your best interest to keep your integrity.
<< <i>...being honest with yourself and being able to recognize what is in your best interest. >>
Agreed.
Think of me what you will, but if I discovered I just sold a $10K coin for $10... I wouldn't ship it. Sorry, but I'm not going to lie to anyone about that. A small amount, under a couple hundred, sure... but not a large amount. Would I feel bad/guilty about it, maybe even offer something to the buyer? Yes... because I should honor the deal. But not over thousands... sorry.
<< <i>You sold it, you ship it.
And you learn from it.
I realize that for high-volume dealers, it is unrealistic to attribute every single coin that comes through, but I think that if I were to ever sell on eBay, I would do my best to accurately describe the coin before listing it so everyone knew what they were bidding on.
So yes, I would still ship it.
-Amanda
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<< <i>
<< <i>Not that simple to answer. If the value difference was less than say a couple hundred bucks I would send it with a note congratulating them on their cherry. On the other hand, if this was a substantial sum, say a cheerio sac sold for $15, I would not ship the coin. Yeah, I'm pretty strong on integrity, but integrity begins with being honest with yourself and being able to recognize what is in your best interest. >>
It would be in your best interest to keep your integrity. >>
That's my point. My personal integrity would be strengthened by not sending the coin for $15. Look, people do not need to be destructive to oneself to keep their integrity. In fact, nothing destroys integrity faster than self destructive activities. Kicking yourself for the next ten years for not seeing a couple of tail feathers and throwing away 5K is not in any person's best interest. And, integrity goes both ways. I would question the integrity of the person who insisted that I follow through with such a one sided transaction. In my opinion if a transaction can not be completed with a win-win outcome, it should not be completed at all.
Bruce Scher
That coin is shipped !
And there is no "but" nor any amount of rationalizing that justifies any other answer.
Wow. Whose definition of integrity are you using? To me (and not too surprisingly, to Webster's Collegiate Dictionary) integrity means soundness of moral principle and character; uprightness, honesty. To keep the coin after you recognized your mistake would be more self-righteous, and not upright. No, for me the coin would ship. End of subject.
Ken
<< <i>As a seller & you figured out you were cherried before you ship the coin >>
Before answering, how did I figure it out? Found my old notes about it before shipping but after listing? Or, buyer said "Haha neener neener
If I had known it was very valuable, but just forgot or had a senior moment, might be different than just not knowing the series.
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
I don't know if he figured out what it was or if I was a victim of 'bait and switch'. At least he let me return it.
<< <i>my integrity is more important than a few bucks...yes >>
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
You make the sale, you live with it.
I had it happen once to me (that I am aware of) on a large cent variety. I basically sold it as a nice Mint state type coin when in fact it turned out to be a rarity-5 and near condition census. The buyer informed me of the coin after he recieved it, when he verified that it in fact was. I learned a hard one as it was worth about 10x the amount I sold it for. However, since he was not e-bay seller savy, he offered the coin to me for cosignment and we later sold it for a substantial profit, and he cut me in very fair.
Jim d
In reality I try to check a majority of the stuff I get that is worth checking, however, I am not a specialist in any particular area so If I miss something becuase I am not aware, then more power to the buyer and great for him/her.
<< <i>I totally disagree. >>
I don't.
<< <i>I have no doubt that the vast majority, perhaps all, of the people that replied here "ship no matter what" would in reality not ship a coin that they sold for $10 that they found out was worth ten thousand. >>
Totally agree. A small amount, a few hundred, a thousand even... probably. But a truly large amount, no.
<< <i>If I renege on a deal, how many opportunities will I miss out on (and probably never know it) because I've harmed my reputation? If I complete the transaction, how much might I gain in the future from dealing with people who rate me as a stand-up guy? It would hurt, but I'd ship, because following that policy is in my long-term self-interest. >>
If you renege on a deal, I doubt that most here would ever find out about it. For the most part I have NO knowledge of business dealings between/among board members that don't involve me unless its one of those deals gone awry that gets posted to the boards here.
<< <i>Truthfully Fatman your replys suprise me. If you blow it on a coin you have to live with it period. A honest mistake is different. I do not think attribution falls into the honest mistake catagory.
Ken >>
Ken, I'm not too sure that my response is all that different from most here. I wholeheartedly agree that the coin should be sent, but I simply am unable to make that an absolute statement. There is a point where the cost of being an upfront guy can be at severe odds with success. Everyone here is saying that not following through on the transaction would be seen as not being a stand up guy. But at what point do you move from being a stand up guy to being a sucker. At some point you become a joke. In a few short months only a couple of people might remember the transaction that was never completed. But the flip side is that everyone will remember the 10K coin that sold for $15, and what a sucker you were. I would prefer not to be remembered as that sucker. That would be much more damaging in the long run.
And why is an honest mistake any different? I see little difference between the two other than semantics. I would act exactly the same. That is to send the coin unless it was an extreme situation.
What bothers me the most in this thread is the lack of integrity in the buyers. Getting something for nothing is not the act of one with integrity. Win - Win transactions are what builds integrity.
<< <i>What does religion have to do with ethics? >>
You wouldn't dare be dishonorable if you believed God was watching AND you surely would not put that much weight on money in light of your view that there is so much more to life and a life after death. Surely you would think that honor, integrity, and honesty vs. materialism and money would be more important to God. Why would someone who truly believes in God and a life after death be dishonest or dishonorable over some money? Surely they would think God would frown upon that, right?
Did you forget? The open forum is closed.
Everyone WANTS to have integrity and WANTS to be honorable, but not everyone will do it when it comes to materialism. God is one of the few things that puts a spotlight on that to me because it generally takes a perspective that goes well beyond the immediate money benefit to make the decision to send the coin in that scenario.
Isn't that a reasonable assessment?
<< <i>I have no doubt that the vast majority, perhaps all, of the people that replied here "ship no matter what" would in reality not ship a coin that they sold for $10 that they found out was worth ten thousand. As far as integrity goes, fatman has shown to me that his is the highest of all among posters in this thread thus far, because integrity begins with honesty. >>
If you put a coin on Ebay for $10 that's worth $10,000, whose fault is that? Certainly not the bidder's. Now, I can understand that mistakes can happen, and you might inadvertently list a coin for far less than it's value, (like happened to Superior once or twice, if memory serves), but if it's just a matter of "figuring out you were cherried", then hell yes, ship the coin.
I don't have coins that are that valuable, and I certainly haven't sold many. (I did sell one coin that was worth thousands, but it wasn't mine.) But anyone who doesn't do the research first before they sell deserves what they get.
Most, if not all, of us have been in a situation where a coin goes for far less than it normally would (or at least than you think it should). But the fact of the matter is, when you put something up, you're expected to give it to the highest bidder. It doesn't take a paragon of virtue to figure that out. And quite frankly, if I found out that a seller wouldn't stick by a sale, they would never get my business. Who wants to deal with someone like that?
I remember not too long ago a thread concerning an auction where the seller wanted to "renegotiate" the price after the sale because the BIN wasn't enough for them. Does anyone else here remember the scorn and aspersions cast upon the seller in that case? Does anyone think that was undeserved?
-- Adam Duritz, of Counting Crows
My Ebay Auctions
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<< <i>If I renege on a deal, how many opportunities will I miss out on (and probably never know it) because I've harmed my reputation? If I complete the transaction, how much might I gain in the future from dealing with people who rate me as a stand-up guy? It would hurt, but I'd ship, because following that policy is in my long-term self-interest. >>
If you renege on a deal, I doubt that most here would ever find out about it. For the most part I have NO knowledge of business dealings between/among board members that don't involve me unless its one of those deals gone awry that gets posted to the boards here. >>
Several times there have been threads about dealers who reneged on coin deals when they realized they had the short end of the stick. I don't think you can necessarily count on people not finding out.
-- Adam Duritz, of Counting Crows
My Ebay Auctions
<< <i>If you really believe in God and life after death, you would keep your word and ship it. If you say that you DO believe in God and life after death, but still wouldn't ship it, you are full of bs about the God part regardless of what excuses you come up with. If you don't truly buy that there is a God and a life after death you will probably not ship it. >>
So you are saying an athiest or agnostic would probably (the way you put it) not transact business in an ethical fashion and that a true believer (and only of a faith that includes life after death) is the holder of these ethics? How arrogant. Ethics does not require some faith risk/reward nor should it for a civilized person.
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And I disagree with you about the God thing.
-- Adam Duritz, of Counting Crows
My Ebay Auctions
<< <i>So you are saying an athiest or agnostic would probably (the way you put it) not transact business in an ethical fashion and that a true believer (and only of a faith that includes life after death) is the holder of these ethics? How arrogant. Ethics does not require some faith risk/reward nor should it for a civilized person. >>
No, I am saying that if you don't send the coin, you are full of bs that you really believe in a God and life after death. I say you don't truly buy that there is a God and a life after death it if you don't send that coin. I'm agnostic, by the way.
<< <i>And I disagree with you about the God thing. It shouldn't matter if God knows or cares what you did. You know. Last time I checked, there wasn't a deity ramming thunderbolts up people's posteriors when they got outta line, so each individual has to be their own conscience. There is no substitute. Ultimately (to bring this back to the coin realm), that's why you should ship the coin: If no one behaves with honor, we're all just a bunch of scumbags, and it starts within. >>
I'm saying that if someone really has bought that there is a God and a life after death, it would be far harded to not send the coin. I know if I truly and really thought that there was a God and that I would be accountable for my deeds and decision in the afterlife, or even that there was an afterlife, it would be 100 times easier to make those types of decisions because materialism would have been dramatically dwarfed in terms of importance or influence. Whatever part of me that would have cared about the 10K difference would be far more likely to say, that's OK, I want that better afterlife. Take the coin, I'm not damaging my honesty or values while God is watching.
<< <i>10-10,000 thats a big difference I think I would have to talk to the buyer and tell him honestly what happened and hope for the best, most people would agree that if a mistake was made all cards should be thrown face up on the table, you never know, I believe that most people are honest ...............I hope! >>
An honest mistake is one thing. The premise of the OP, though, was that you got "cherried", which is something different. In that case, you didn't make a mistake. You put the coin up for what you thought it was worth (and what it probably would be worth, to most collectors). The difference is you had the misfortune of coming across someone who deals in a different market, and could get a better price. And that's just the way life goes, sometimes.
-- Adam Duritz, of Counting Crows
My Ebay Auctions
As a cherrypicker you get what you deserve. You win some you lose some.
As a buyer I wouldn't be dishonest enough to screw somebody out of a $10000 coin for $10.