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1827- the 10th Informative Picture thread about the Capped Bust Half Series- Post your Capped Bust H
Leiana
Posts: 4,349 ✭
This is the TENTH in a series of informative picture threads covering the lettered edge Capped Bust Half Dollars from 1807-36 in reverse year order.
1827 starts today, 11/16 1826 starts 11/20 and this pattern continues on down.
General guidelines:
1. Members can simply post pictures, or include pertinent information like Overton marriage
and diagnostics, or just ask for information about their pictured coin from other members.
Please keep picture file sizes within reason for dial up members.
2. Ultimately, we would like to see at least one example pictured for each Overton marriage.
3. Thread starts are only on Thursdays and Sundays.
On to 1827!
John Quincy Adams was president this year.
There is an estimated mintage of 5,493,400 half dollars showing the 1827 date completed using 28 obverse dies and 34 reverse dies for a combination of 49 varieties for the year.
49 die marriages is a lot, but I think we can get through most of them!
Overton-49 might be difficult, however.
This is Overton-147, an R-4 die marriage. This die marriage utilizes Obverse 29 and Reverse AB.
The major point of interest for O-147 is the date which has a curl-based two. The only other Overton of 1827 with a curl-based two (sharing an obverse but with a different reverse) is Overton-146.
The difference is in the reverse, on 147 A2 (the first A in AMERICA) is aligned with the left side of the second U in UNUM while on 146 A2 is aligned with the right side of the second U.
Also, A3 (The second A in AMERICA) on 147 is not touching the arrows while on 146 it is.
Another diagnostic, UN in UNITED nearly touch at the top.
These threads are really educational! Lets see some CBHs.
A special thanks to JRocco for previewing the thread and giving me some extra facts!
-Amanda
PS- Sorry I am a few minutes early, but the weather here is pretty bad and I didn't want to lose power and have it not posted.
1827 starts today, 11/16 1826 starts 11/20 and this pattern continues on down.
General guidelines:
1. Members can simply post pictures, or include pertinent information like Overton marriage
and diagnostics, or just ask for information about their pictured coin from other members.
Please keep picture file sizes within reason for dial up members.
2. Ultimately, we would like to see at least one example pictured for each Overton marriage.
3. Thread starts are only on Thursdays and Sundays.
On to 1827!
John Quincy Adams was president this year.
There is an estimated mintage of 5,493,400 half dollars showing the 1827 date completed using 28 obverse dies and 34 reverse dies for a combination of 49 varieties for the year.
49 die marriages is a lot, but I think we can get through most of them!
Overton-49 might be difficult, however.
This is Overton-147, an R-4 die marriage. This die marriage utilizes Obverse 29 and Reverse AB.
The major point of interest for O-147 is the date which has a curl-based two. The only other Overton of 1827 with a curl-based two (sharing an obverse but with a different reverse) is Overton-146.
The difference is in the reverse, on 147 A2 (the first A in AMERICA) is aligned with the left side of the second U in UNUM while on 146 A2 is aligned with the right side of the second U.
Also, A3 (The second A in AMERICA) on 147 is not touching the arrows while on 146 it is.
Another diagnostic, UN in UNITED nearly touch at the top.
These threads are really educational! Lets see some CBHs.
A special thanks to JRocco for previewing the thread and giving me some extra facts!
-Amanda
PS- Sorry I am a few minutes early, but the weather here is pretty bad and I didn't want to lose power and have it not posted.
I'm a YN working on a type set!
My Buffalo Nickel Website Home of the Quirky Buffaloes Collection!
Proud member of the CUFYNA
0
Comments
As opposed to Amanda's "curl base 2", the following coin has the "square base 2":
Almost certainly cleaned and retoned, this is an example of the O-110 variety.
This obverse diagnostic is the placement of star #7 (above and left of the L). Its point touches and bisects a dentil. The reverse diagnostic is the incomplete first three stripes in the shield (the first three vertical lines have a "stairstep effect" along the bottom, and is more obvious if you compare them to the bottom of the lines on the other half of the shield).
This variety is considered "R4" or "Low R4" from what I've read. If you are interested in the variety, here's a Heritage auction of an 1827 o-110 with nice pics.
Have fun...Mike
[edited to add correct Overton variety and diagnostic info.
marriage of the Obverse 4 sporting a high upturned serif on 2 and a tiny pointed serif at the top right of 7, with the Reverse F, which has the third line of stripe (or gule) 5 extending to crossbar (or azure) 3.
Why is this burried on page 3?
That 1827 date is just to cool to look at!
Hard to imagine the the mint boys looking at production runs and lettin'er rip!
Different place/different time.
Thanks for sharing knowledge.
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
In another 100 years it may look nice.
Great job
Your coin ain't too shabby either- that is a tough R4 coin.
Here is an O-132 R3
It utilizes Obv 21 with Rev Y. Some characteristics are:
Obv-recutting on stars, tall serif on the base of the 2, a die line between the L and I joins headband to curl and cap
Rev-50C is high, right sides of T and I in line, stripes 3-6 are mostly solidand a few lines extend into the crossbars, UN attached at top, C in 50C recut at top.
The rev position of A2,the first A in America,is an easy pick-up point.Overton says that due to the
reuse and extended use of the dies,alot of the coins of this year have very little milling
and the stars and letters are drawn to the edge.I like that look on these crusty busty's.
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
I'll have to get the book out and try to attribute slipgate's and au58's coins .Tough to do on the 1827's.
<< <i>Not 1827, but... >>
AU-58!!!
This marriage is made from Obv 15 and Rev P
Some characteristics of this marriage are:
Obv- Raised die defect lines running parallel to the milling to the left of the date
Rev- right side of T and left side of I in line, 50C is high with top of C very close to the olive stem
Let me add that there is another side to these bust coins--the edge. These coins have an edge design as opposed to being struck in a collar and that edge design didn't always come out as planned. Here is an example of a really nice lettered edge error. Here the word FIFTY is at least tripled.
The pic looks identical to the pic in Overton.Little or no milling,stars drawn to the edge,the bottom of the 8 is
broken and joined to the edge by a chipped die.Rev left sides of T-I in line.The reverse is supposed to be
rev.3,which was also used on O-103,but the description under O-103 says right side of I is centered under the T?
Anybody know which is right?
slipgate,I haven't figured yours out ,but I haven't given up yet.
<< <i>You did a great job on those pics Amanda.
Thanks.
-Amanda
I'm a YN working on a type set!
My Buffalo Nickel Website Home of the Quirky Buffaloes Collection!
Proud member of the CUFYNA
<< <i>I noticed a discrepancy in the Overton book while looking for au58walker's coin.I believe his is O-119,R3.
The pic looks identical to the pic in Overton.Little or no milling,stars drawn to the edge,the bottom of the 8 is
broken and joined to the edge by a chipped die.Rev left sides of T-I in line.The reverse is supposed to be
rev.3,which was also used on O-103,but the description under O-103 says right side of I is centered under the T?
Anybody know which is right?
You found one of the many errors in the 4th edition that should have been corrected from the third.
Use what Dr. Glenn Peterson says, Left sides of "I" and "T" in line. Dr. P is most precise. The more I use his book THE ULTIMATE GUIDE TO ATTRIBUTING BUST HALF DOLLARS, the more I like it. I recommend it highly.
Some diagnostics for 1827/6 O-102 R1:
Obverse: Star 1 points to upper half of a dentil. 7 cut over 6. (Obverse is LDS of O-101. O-103 is a VLDS of this same obverse.)
Reverse: Die break to upper right of A3. AM joined at base, and M is higher at base. Right sides of I and T in line.
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Amanda did a very nice job starting this thread.
So far we have....
147
110
106
132
146
104
120
102
And likely 119.
And one as of yet unidentified!
Keep the 1827s coming, we have a loong way to go!
-Amanda
I'm a YN working on a type set!
My Buffalo Nickel Website Home of the Quirky Buffaloes Collection!
Proud member of the CUFYNA
Thanks for your nice comments on my coin. I wish I had O-101 and O-103 to show.
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Mepot,
I can see no reason not to say you are correct on AUWALKERS' coin being O-119. Good job attributing. Slipgate's coin will be tough to attribute without coin in hand.
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Nine marriages shown, ONLY 40 left to show.
Your attribution of O-108a R4- looks to be correct. The key is that die chip in the upper part of "F".
--------------
Edited to correct typing error.
this coin.Rev I is centered under the right side of the T,stripes 2 through 6 normally filled.
P.S. Sorry about the big pics, I can't resize them on this computer right now. I'll make them smaller later.
<< <i>Hi: I have a 1827 half i would like this thread to look at for a opinion how do i get it on this thread. >>
Here ya go steamer, here is your coin.
Some diagnostics for 1827 O-104 R1:
Obverse: Star 1 points to lower half of dentil. Light die lines left of date to milling below bust.
Reverse: Slightly curved vertical die line upwards off the lower pair of leaves. Die line from right claw up to feathers. Centering dot between crossbars 4 & 5 at left. Several crossbars extend too far left. I centered under T.
Slipgate, your coin is 117 an R-3...best distinguished by the nearly broken 2 in the date and the closeness of AMRI on the reverse.
Steamer, I can't be totally sure from the pic, but I believe yours is 132 also an R-3.
easily seen body of 6 to right of 7(although not in this pic)...reverse was used on 1826 O120 prior to this marriage.
This one came out of a PCGS holder labeled F-12...quietly downgraded from VF for the scratch across Liberty.
Overton 145 one of the tougher R-5's, (but not as hard as 144. Does anyone want to get rid of a 144?)
Same obverse as 144...(By the way, did I mention that I WANT a 144?) Star 8 to top of curl; faint (on this one very faint) die line between the base of the bust and the rim to left of date.
Same reverse as 132 UN firmly joined at top; C (cents) recut at serif
Some diagnostics for 1827 O-109 R4-:
Obverse: Star 1 points to the lower edge of a dentil. Star 7 points between dentils, and to the center of the headband. Star 12 points to the lower half of a segment. Right below Liberty's ear there is a series of dots in a row, and another larger dot left of there along the jaw line. The 2 has a slender curl, and its base small sharp serif points to the 7.
Reverse: The first two lines of the first three stripes are short at the bottom shield margin, forming a stair-step pattern. Left side of I is under the right side of T. (Reverse shared with O-110.)
NOTE:This is not my coin.
Easily recognized by the I of E PLURIBUS UNUM between the A and T of STATES rather than under T
Some diagnostics for 1827 O-115 R2:
Obverse: Star 1 points to the lower half of a dentil. There is a vertical die line from the left base of 2 up to the right side of the inner curl. Between Liberty's ear and her hair curl there are two die defect lumps.
Reverse: Most of the stripes are partially solid. Stripe 6 is solid, and its first line extends upwards across two crossbars. There is a die defect left of stripe 5 just above its middle. I is far right of T.
Some diagnostics for 1827 O-105 R3:
Obverse: Star 1 points to lower edge of dentil. Star 7 points to lower edge of dentil, and to upper half of headband. Star 13 is close to curl. Mouth is open.
Reverse: 50 C is high, and upright 5 is recut, showing as a double flag tip. I centered under right side of T.
Stars are almost always sharper on right then on left do to mis-aligned dies. Same reverse die as the R-4 113 and the ultra rare 149.
Same obverse die as 106 and reverse die as 126.
Garrow
What a nice trio of Busties!
-------------------------------
yellowjacket,
PM Amanda across the street. She uses "Amanda" over there.
Obverse 13
Reverse N- R.3
Obv-the 2 has a large curl and a thick base with the stand nearly broken where it joins the base, the date is high
Rev-The C is higher than the 50 and the 5 in 50 is re-cut at the left upright, The I is centered under the left side of T and the left side pf E and right side of D are in line, MERI nearly touch at the base.