Major Find at the Baltimore Show - An 1813 Half Eagle
BillJones
Posts: 34,255 ✭✭✭✭✭
I was a bit surprised to find this 1813 half eagle at the Baltimore show in NGC AU-58. As a type coin, this matronly looking, husky lady is difficult to find. While it is quite true that the 1813 half eagle is a rather “common date” the term is relative. There are probably less than 1,000 of these coins surviving in all grades. Aside from the somewhat more formidable 1818, this is really the only “common” date in the series, which runs from 1813 to 1829. Included in this group is the 1822 of which only three are known.
When Alexander Hamilton recommended the weights for the first U.S. gold coins, he thought that a proper ratio would be 15 parts silver to one part of gold. Through out the 1790s, this ratio continued to increase until by the dawn of the new century it had become almost 16 to 1. As a result all of the early U.S. gold coins contained too much metal relative to their silver sisters and many of them were melted. Hardest hit in this melt were that later dates from the ‘teens until mid 1834. At that time Congress following Andrew Jackson’s recommendation lowered the weight of U.S. gold, and the coins began to circulate freely for the first time.
Although this piece has some marks, its surfaces have not been stripped, which sadly true for many early U.S. gold coins that are now on the market. Sadly too many collectors think that “bright and shiny” is better. That is quite true when one is speaking of original mint luster, but when the luster comes from a scrub brush or a bottle, it is not good.
My official grade for this piece is AU-55, not AU-58. But I did see a PCGS AU-55 on the floor that was not quite as nice as this piece, so perhaps I’m being too conservative.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
2
Comments
Thanks for sharing the pictures and history!!
-Amanda
I'm a YN working on a type set!
My Buffalo Nickel Website Home of the Quirky Buffaloes Collection!
Proud member of the CUFYNA
Thanks for the post.
Nice coin
Nice pick-up.
A thing of beauty!!
~
"America suffers today from too much pluribus and not enough unum.".....Arthur Schlesinger Jr.
And at any rate the AU-55 I saw on the floor had a starting price of $10,500 marked on it. I bought this one for a fair amount less.
In general I found the prices to be a bit softer at the Baltimore show than I had in the past. I picked up a couple of early MS-63 Walking Liberty half dollars for a customer for bid or close to it, which was something I had not been about to do for a year or so. And these were decent white or near white coins. They were not the usual darkly toned pieces that no one wants, which are often offered at "bargain" prices.
I also found a couple of Proof Seated Liberty quarters which I liked. No everyone will agree because they are classic blue Proofs with some red and golden highlights. A lot of collectors like white coins, even though everyone with brain knows that 99% of them have been dipped.
Capped Bust Half Series
Capped Bust Half Dime Series
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Joe
Nice Coin!
Was it just reposing in some dealer's case waiting for anyone to come along or was it a dealer you knew?
Check out the Southern Gold Society
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>Bill,
Nice Coin!
Was it just reposing in some dealer's case waiting for anyone to come along or was it a dealer you knew? >>
I knew him, and we have done business before. But we did have a discussion about overgraded coins in slabs that he tried to sell to me in the past so we now have a mutual respect for our abilities.
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
Thanks for posting, and including some background.
J
siliconvalleycoins.com
After that there are number challenges. First there is the issue of condition. Choice AU -55 or 58 are my target grades. Then there is the issue of early mint practices. I don’t rule out all coins with adjustment marks, (During the early days of the mint gold and silver coin blanks that weighed more than the legal standard were reduced in weight by running a file over the surfaces to remove excess metal.) but those marks much be such that they don’t result in making the coin ugly.
And finally there is issue of numismatic abuse. More than a few early gold coins have damaged by those who polished their surfaces or used them for jewelry. Of late NCS has gotten into the act with their “curating” processes. While a small number of coins do need help, the vast majority of pieces that NCS now messes with come off poorer for the experience IMO. Many of these coins look like they have been cleaned with Brasso.
So, yes, moving slowly on this collection is the only way for me to go, and so far this is where I’ve arrived on the $5 gold pieces:
PCGS AU-58
PCGS AU-55
NGC AU-58
Nice coin.
Did you mean to say 15 parts gold to 1 part silver??
<< <i>proper ratio would be 15 parts silver to one part of gold
Nice coin.
Did you mean to say 15 parts gold to 1 part silver?? >>
No, gold was supposed to cost 15 times more valuable than silver.
The classic ratio that was drilled into everyone's head was 16 parts of silver were equal in value to one part of gold. The reason for that stemmed from the presidential campaigns of 1896 and 1900 during which William Jennings Bryan tried to drill that ratio into everyone’s head. The REAL ratio at that time was a good deal higher.
Looking at it from a modern perspective, according the November 3, 2006 Gray Sheet, the price of gold was $604.70 and the price of silver was $12.20. That would make the modern ratio almost 50 to 1!
AND if you are a silver bug, you could argue to the gullible that silver should really be priced at $37.79. Back in the late 1970s, when the Hunt Brothers were squandering their inheritance, the old 16 to 1 ratio was close to reality. At one point gold was $850 and ounce and silver was $55 and ounce, which works out to 15.5 to 1.
As you can see I am not above kissing up for discounts!!
That is a superior example in every way. Every bit as satisfying as an unc.
I'd take it in a heartbeat.
I'd even PAY for it.
If anyone has comparable FOR SALE, I'd sure like a shot.
If not for just money, I have a PCGS 53 1803/2 or a PCGS 55 1807 (bust right) for part trade.
dern you, Bill.
Congratulations!
Huh? mebbe, huh?
A. Sap
I am sure Bill smelled it first to be sure?
You know that nose grease can be detected without opening your eyes.
hello everyone, I'm new to the forum, I live in Europe and I would like to buy a 1813 $5 capped bust gold half eagle and after some time sell it hopefully for more money.
what do you think, is the price of 11000$ too much for that coin, I would like to hear your opinion, the coin is vf/xf in appearance
Welcome to the forum. No one can even begin to provide a helpful answer regarding the coin you asked about, without first seeing clear pictures of it.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
>
Welcome aboard.
As Mark said, it’s tough to say without seeing the coin/images. I will say if the coin's a crusty original CAC coin, it would probably sell in a heartbeat over here if it’s a XF45. I know I would be keenly interested myself!😉
While you see these coins all the time, truly nice pieces are another story!
Think about starting with prior auction prices for grade comparison's
https://www.pcgs.com/auctionprices/details/1813-ms/8116
OMG ... My Mother was Right about Everything!
I wake up with a Good Attitude Every Day. Then … Idiots Happen!
hello everyone, I'm new to the forum, I live in Europe and I would like to buy a 1813 $5 capped bust gold half ea> @HillbillyCollector said:
Thank you very much for your answer, the coin is rated very good to excellent by coin experts. I would like to buy it but I don't know if it is possible to sell the coin for more money in, for example, 5-10 years.
If you don't know, then I'm confident the answer is "not a chance".
Coin collecting does not favor people without knowledge. Investing in coins most certainly doesn't.
Looking at it another way... If there is any reasonable chance to resell it for more money, don't you think that someone else would buy it before you do?
First, I recently sold a gold coin at melt that was not in a third party grading service slab to a very experienced coin dealer in his brick and mortar shop. He spent several minutes weighting and measuring the coin utilizing tools from a speciality briefcase to confirm it was not counterfeit before he agreed to buy it.
Second, there are no assurances coins will go up in value in 5-10 years. In the last 5-10 years I've also seen them go down in value, sometimes substantially.
If a $11,000.00 coin is not in a third party grading service and without a CAC I would not touch it unless the seller first offers to submit it to those services in the USA.
That’s a very vague “rating”. The image looks like it was professionally shot and the coin looks Almost Uncirculated to me.
As two points of reference, a PCGS MS61 example brought $15,000 last September and an NGC AU58 sold for $11,400 last November. As nice as the coin appears in the images, unless it’s been graded a minimum of AU55 by a very highly regarded grading company, I believe the $11,000 price is too high. If the coin’s being auctioned, knowledgeable bidders who can view it in hand will have a huge advantage over those who can’t.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Less than 1000 is common try getting an 1860's HE. This is rife with issues of less than 100 known. This last Heritage had nearly all of them. Now that was a rare event, you won't see those coins again.
Thank you all for your answers, the coin comes Delivered in a representative luxury box and certificate of authenticity, so I am sure it is original because it is sold by a reputable coin company, I am a beginner in this, I have mostly bought Krugerrand coins and Kookaburras, so I have no experience with American ones.
In that case, I strongly recommend that you not buy it. Neither the certificate of authenticity nor the representation that the seller is a “reputable coin company” provide any assurance that fair market value of the coin is necessarily even close to the asking price.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.