The Yankees should take those offers for him, and run! I didn't hear anything of that, but if that's the case - then good for you guys. I think trading Wright was a great move also, no matter what you got back. And, while I was somewhat critical of the young pitchers the Yanks got back for Sheff, it's still a good baseball move.
A team could sign two high profile pitchers for 2-3 years each just for what the Bosox are paying for the rights to negotiate...and thats JUST the rights to negotiate!
<< <i>A team could sign two high profile pitchers for 2-3 years each just for what the Bosox are paying for the rights to negotiate...and thats JUST the rights to negotiate! >>
When all is said and done, this could cost the Sox $75 million over the next three years (salary included).
Last year, Houston paid Roger Clemens $22 million for a partial season.
<< <i>Dan, where'd you copy that from? Sounds like a Yankee fan writer crying! >>
Was ESPN Jer! Come on, you spend ALL year long copying and pasting Red Sox propaganda
<< <i>this is a guy who by all accounts comes around very rarely these days (one Boston writer drew a comparison to when the Sox landed Pedro from Montreal). This will not only give the Sox a young and powerful starting rotation for the next 3 years (at least, with Matsuzaka, Papelbon, Beckett and Schilling for 2007) >>
yeah, the SAME EXACT STUFF was written about Hideki Irabu. Cross your fingers Jerry! Cause if this guy wilts facing real big league hitters this will be a COLOSSAL blunder. And I for one, can't wait for it to happen
Well, let me copy and paste some good propoganda from Tom Verducci over at SI for you Dan -
There is no more valuable commodity in the game than young ace pitchers, and the Red Sox boldly just redefined the value.
The Red Sox decided what a premier pitcher on the open market is worth -- you might creatively start with the prorated $22 million salary the Astros established last season for Roger Clemens, who is 16 years older than Matsuzaka -- then added in the ancillary income from new sponsorships and merchandising that come from featuring an international star (teams keep what they earn from their own stores and equally share other sales with the other 29 teams), tossed in the worth of a halo effect of extending Red Sox Nation to the Far East, and threw in a few more million to make sure they won the bidding war for Matsuzaka's rights. Maybe the number is not so crazy after all -- assuming, of course, that Matsuzaka stays healthy.
See, premier pitchers, the ones entering their prime, just don't get on the market any more, not since the full-blown revenue sharing kicked in. (Yes, Barry Zito is out there this year, but is he a true ace?) Teams that once routinely waited to pick off aces such as Curt Schilling, Greg Maddux, Kevin Brown, Randy Johnson, Mike Mussina, Tim Hudson and Mike Hampton in another era can't count on those kinds of pitchers going up for sale anymore.
Can you imagine the crap we would be hearing if it was the Yankees who made this bid? How this pitcher isnt nearly good of an investment for those dollars, how the Yankees unfairly toss money around, etc...
<< <i>Jerry, you think Scott Boras is gonna settle for 24 million over three years ???? >>
Estimates are somewhere around $8-10 million a season, but no one really knows - I was just guessing.
Wow - you Yankee fans are so predictable. You guys are crying about big spending now! Hilarious!
And, to say you wouldn't have paid the money for him is insane, when your team has overpaid and overpaid for players with nowhere near the pedigree of Matsuzaka.
By bidding such an outrageous number, the Red Sox are essentially saying, in their minds, Matsuzaka is a No. 1 starting pitcher in the major leagues, worthy of more money than any pitcher in the history of the game, even though he's never thrown a single pitch in the majors. Because on top of that, they are going to have to negotiate a contract with Matsuzaka's agent, Scott Boras, who almost surely is going to tell them: "You've made it clear how highly you regard my client, now how about showing him the money."
You have to believe Boras' starting point with the Red Sox is going to be the $14.5 million per year, Houston's Roy Oswalt's industry benchmark deal for starting pitchers last year. Conceivably, the Red Sox would agree with that, except only in terms of the posting bid money as part of the overall contract. The only way one can imagine Boras agreeing to anything like that is if he is able to extract some of that $50 million from Seibu for his client, which is supposedly illegal under the terms of MLB's agreement with Japan.
But let's assume the Avenging Agent concedes it isn't realistic to establish a pitcher who's never pitched in the majors in the highest echelon salary structure and the Red Sox are able to do a deal for four years around $10 or $11 million per. That's still a blind commitment of upwards of $90-94 million which, factoring in the posting bid, would make Matsuzaka a $23-24 million-per-year pitcher.
If the Yankees posted this kind of bid the Jerry's of the world would be up in arms and yelling for months and months. It is so cool to see hypocracy happen right in front of your eyes!
<< <i>Well, let me copy and paste some good propoganda from Tom Verducci over at SI for you Dan -
There is no more valuable commodity in the game than young ace pitchers, and the Red Sox boldly just redefined the value.
The Red Sox decided what a premier pitcher on the open market is worth -- you might creatively start with the prorated $22 million salary the Astros established last season for Roger Clemens, who is 16 years older than Matsuzaka -- then added in the ancillary income from new sponsorships and merchandising that come from featuring an international star (teams keep what they earn from their own stores and equally share other sales with the other 29 teams), tossed in the worth of a halo effect of extending Red Sox Nation to the Far East, and threw in a few more million to make sure they won the bidding war for Matsuzaka's rights. Maybe the number is not so crazy after all -- assuming, of course, that Matsuzaka stays healthy.
See, premier pitchers, the ones entering their prime, just don't get on the market any more, not since the full-blown revenue sharing kicked in. (Yes, Barry Zito is out there this year, but is he a true ace?) Teams that once routinely waited to pick off aces such as Curt Schilling, Greg Maddux, Kevin Brown, Randy Johnson, Mike Mussina, Tim Hudson and Mike Hampton in another era can't count on those kinds of pitchers going up for sale anymore. >>
This looks somewhat half sarcastic and half serious. I can see where he comes from when a premier pitcher rarely comes on the market...but then when he describes this "investment", it almost seems he is ridiculing it.
By the way, Yankee fans - from the NY Daily News - this just in:
The Mets reportedly had the second highest bid submitted for Daisuke Matsuzaka, offering up $38 million. Rumors still have the Yankees at around $30 million.
If the Mets were willing to commit $80 million-$100 million to bring in Matsuzaka, it's easier to see them ending up with Barry Zito.
So, the Yankees were willing to go $30 million, plus the salary - and that's okay?
But, the Red Sox did what it took to make a deal possible (what's 20 more million to the Yanks? a utility infielder or two?) - and they are the crazy team?
You actually think that number is close? Red Sox bid was nearly 50% of the second highest bid! Are there guys sitting around a table asking themselves if they bid too much and what have they gotten themselves into now that the rain has cleared????
As a Yankee fan, I will say this. If Matsuzaka is the real deal and becomes the Sox ace, you guys will have one helluva rotation that will compete all season. He could bridge the gap Pedro left when he became a Met. I'm also scared for you Red Sox fans though, because spending that much money on one player will cut into your free agent signings this season (and the next two seasons). All those other holes on the Sox have to be filled...which makes me wonder if Theo is up to something else.
Next MONTH? So he's saying that if he wins, the best-case scenario is that he'll be paying for it two weeks after the auction ends?
Forget blocking him; find out where he lives and go punch him in the nuts. --WalterSobchak 9/12/12
Looking for Al Hrabosky and any OPC Dave Campbells (the ESPN guy)
<< <i>You actually think that number is close? Red Sox bid was nearly 50% of the second highest bid! Are there guys sitting around a table asking themselves if they bid too much and what have they gotten themselves into now that the rain has cleared???? >>
Okay, but when I mention that the Yankee payroll has been 50% greater than the team with the second highest payroll for the last several years (Boston) - all you guys did was say that it wasn't that much. Funny how the math works differently, now.
<< <i>As a Yankee fan, I will say this. If Matsuzaka is the real deal and becomes the Sox ace, you guys will have one helluva rotation that will compete all season. He could bridge the gap Pedro left when he became a Met. I'm also scared for you Red Sox fans though, because spending that much money on one player will cut into your free agent signings this season (and the next two seasons). All those other holes on the Sox have to be filled...which makes me wonder if Theo is up to something else. >>
According to the Boston Globe, Theo made two other offers to free agents already, I thought one of them was Julio Lugo or JD Drew, but the article mentions 2 pitchers - your guess is as good as mine.
<< <i>Jer, Clemens is a pitcher that comes around every 1/4 century! There's no comparison! >>
But there is - (from Bob Ryan in the Globe)
Let's revisit the idea of just how good Mr. Matsuzaka is, or has been.
This means we must return to the ever-reliable, ever-conscientious, and ever-numerically-ready folks at Baseball Prospectus. A fellow named Clay Davenport has crunched the numbers, and his conclusion is that over the past four years Matsuzaka's stats compare quite favorably to those of Roger Clemens. "Although BABIP rates [don't ask] fluctuate for most pitchers," says Baseball Prospectus, "there is a level of quality at which it stops looking random and starts speaking to simple dominance, and this comparison indicates that Matsuzaka is one of those guys . . .He's not simply a really good pitcher; he's arguably the best starting pitcher on the market this winter, eclipsing Jason Schmidt and Barry Zito."
<< <i>As a Yankee fan, based on all the testimonials, I wanted Matsuzaka to be with the Yanks badly, >>
Yes, I know. In fact, I recall several posts here over the last year where Yankee fans simply assumed that Matsuzaka was going to don the pinstripes in 2007. A foregone conclusion, no other team even had a shot. Perhaps why I can't believe that some of you would dump on the Sox spending the money. If the Yanks were doing it, it would be a great day in Yankee history.
Lets revisit that ALL OF THIS CRAP was said and written by every expert there was or is about Hideki Irabu. Oh the joy it will bring to watch this guy get slapped around by real big league lineups.
Lets revisit that ALL OF THIS CRAP was said and written by every expert there was or is about Hideki Irabu. Oh the joy it will bring to watch this guy get slapped around by real big league lineups. >>
Dan, first of all, there is no comparison between Hideki "Fat Toad" Irabu and Matsuzaka. I know you are bothered by this turn of events, but please - read the background on Matsuzaka before you say anything. Sure, he's unproven in MLB - but so was Ichiro, and so was your very own Matsui - 2 pretty good players, wouldn't you say?
<< <i>ctsoxfan, I think most people would agree that this is a quality player. He throws in the high 90s, and has the gyroball, and is very young. But ~$30 million per season does not make sense considering that the highest amount that a pitcher has ever earned for a full season in history is I believe $16-18 million. >>
I see your point - but from what I've read, they are looking at the big picture here. The marketing potential the Red Sox would have in the Far East would seem to be worth a lot of money. They have clearly raised the bar here, but it only makes sense because of the type of player Matsuzaka is.
<< <i> Dan, first of all, there is no comparison between Hideki "Fat Toad" Irabu and Matsuzaka. I know you are bothered by this turn of events, but please - read the background on Matsuzaka before you say anything. Sure, he's unproven in MLB - but so was Ichiro, and so was your very own Matsui - 2 pretty good players, wouldn't you say? >>
Oh yes there is a comparison! I can't believe how blind one becomes! Irabu did not earn great names like "Fat Toad" until AFTER he was a bust!. The completely VALID argument is that Irabu had similar or BETTER numbers in Japan and was over hyped by the media and scouts like this guy is.
<< <i>Jer, Clemens is a pitcher that comes around every 1/4 century! There's no comparison! >>
But there is - (from Bob Ryan in the Globe)
Let's revisit the idea of just how good Mr. Matsuzaka is, or has been.
This means we must return to the ever-reliable, ever-conscientious, and ever-numerically-ready folks at Baseball Prospectus. A fellow named Clay Davenport has crunched the numbers, and his conclusion is that over the past four years Matsuzaka's stats compare quite favorably to those of Roger Clemens. "Although BABIP rates [don't ask] fluctuate for most pitchers," says Baseball Prospectus, "there is a level of quality at which it stops looking random and starts speaking to simple dominance, and this comparison indicates that Matsuzaka is one of those guys . . .He's not simply a really good pitcher; he's arguably the best starting pitcher on the market this winter, eclipsing Jason Schmidt and Barry Zito." >>
ANYONE and I mean ANYONE who compares a Japanese pitcher to a future MLB HOFer is off his rocker!! Matsuzaka's stats compare quite favorably to Roger Clemens...but is this Roger Clemens pitching in MLB or in Japan? That is just ridiculous!!!
Im not saying that Matsuzaka doesnt have the chance to be good..maybe even great? Boy, for the money you better hope GREAT! In the end, the only comparison to Clemens will be SALARY!
Thus far, there has been no Asian pitcher that has come to make star status in the majors. Nomo might be the best of them so far...and thats not real good. Wang could end up proving to be the best but lets give that a couple more years. There is a HUGE difference in the hitters from Japan compared to the pitchers. Not so much unlike MLB really.
Don't get me wrong...I would have liked the Yankees to have gotten the right to negotiate with him too. Even though they Yanks spend a lot of money, I am glad to see some diligence in this situation. Some of that diligence may be because the Yankees HATE negotiating with Scott Boras. I dont know the history of why that is but I have heard it often.
If Matsuzaka ends up being a bust, I think owners will remember this one for a very long time...as far as pitchers go anyway.
No offense buddy, but can you honestly look yourself in the mirror and say that if this was the Yankees you wouldnt be bashing this move from about 6 different directions ?
Overspending, unproven, everything thats wrong with baseball economics, etc, etc, etc.
And your marketing argument is really a stretch. Sure, he will bring the Sox money from all that, but using that logic the Yankees can overspend on ANY player, from ANY nation because they have the largest fan base in the country and around the world.
So any player they sign would bring them $$ back in merchandising worldwide. Johnny Damon made the Yankees alot more money in marketing than he would the Sox, because they have a larger fan base worldwide.
I for one dont care about the spending. If I have no problem with the Yankees spending whatever they want, whenever they want, then I certainly cant make waves about another team doing so. Its just a matter of being consistent with that viewpoint, and not being for it when its one team, and against it when its another.
In the end, only time will tell what this means to the Red Sox. Until he pitches for a couple of years anything that is said by proponents or opponents of this move is purely speculation.
"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." -- Yogi Berra
<< <i><<The marketing potential the Red Sox would have in the Far East would seem to be worth a lot of money. They have clearly raised the bar here, but it only makes sense because of the type of player Matsuzaka is.>>
I disagree to a large extent with this sentiment because he is a pitcher. Pitching wins ball games and they're worth a lot of money, no doubt. But for whatever reason, they just don't resonate with fans the way position players do. Fans don't adore Pedro, or Randy, or Mussina. They adore Jeter, ARod (except Yankee fans), Sosa (before steroids), McGwire (before steroids), Ripken, etc. You get the point. History is the same with names like Ruth, Cobb, Mays, DiMaggio, Aaron, Mantle, etc. Nolan Ryan may be an exception but fans just don't relate to pitchers as much. Probably because they don't hit well (or at all in the AL), and they don't run the field playing defense (all that much). >>
Nomo was- and actually still is-- a legend in Japan. The Red Sox may be hoping that Matsuzaka's marketing appeal in Japan ends up being as big as Nomo's.
Boo Are you insinuating that this could be a financial move to make money and just HOPE he is effective in MLB? Of course the more successful he is the more money a team could make through marketing...but to buy a player for that sort of financial gain?
Is this going to be some new "economics" of baseball? Who cares how good the player is, lets just cash in on their popularity!
<< <i><<The marketing potential the Red Sox would have in the Far East would seem to be worth a lot of money. They have clearly raised the bar here, but it only makes sense because of the type of player Matsuzaka is.>>
I disagree to a large extent with this sentiment because he is a pitcher. Pitching wins ball games and they're worth a lot of money, no doubt. But for whatever reason, they just don't resonate with fans the way position players do. Fans don't adore Pedro, or Randy, or Mussina. They adore Jeter, ARod (except Yankee fans), Sosa (before steroids), McGwire (before steroids), Ripken, etc. You get the point. History is the same with names like Ruth, Cobb, Mays, DiMaggio, Aaron, Mantle, etc. Nolan Ryan may be an exception but fans just don't relate to pitchers as much. Probably because they don't hit well (or at all in the AL), and they don't run the field playing defense (all that much). >>
I could not disagree with you more. I see the point you are trying to make, but baseball fans don't "adore" Clemens? Pedro Martinez? Randy Johnson (in his day)? There was a point, a few seasons ago, where I would say Pedro Martinez was the most popular player on the Sox. Clemens was, before him. The scouts and media are making Matsuzaka out to be in that same class of pitcher, if indeed he is, then I think there will be a lot of Red Sox jerseys sold over in Japan very soon.
No offense buddy, but can you honestly look yourself in the mirror and say that if this was the Yankees you wouldnt be bashing this move from about 6 different directions ?
I for one dont care about the spending. If I have no problem with the Yankees spending whatever they want, whenever they want, then I certainly cant make waves about another team doing so. Its just a matter of being consistent with that viewpoint, and not being for it when its one team, and against it when its another. >>
Sure it is OK that the Sox spent crazy money even by Yankee standards. Its OK because it his his Red Sox this time around. Again, I can't wait to see how this shakes out
Baseball, I know if he does not sign he goes back and the Sox get the money back. I was saying, now that they are the only team to negotiate with him why not low ball? I read somewhere that for him to go back to Japan under that condition would be a disgrace.
<< <i>Boo Are you insinuating that this could be a financial move to make money and just HOPE he is effective in MLB? Of course the more successful he is the more money a team could make through marketing...but to buy a player for that sort of financial gain?
Is this going to be some new "economics" of baseball? Who cares how good the player is, lets just cash in on their popularity! >>
No. I don't know why they paid so much just for the right to negotiate with him, but I'm sure it has more to do with his potential as a pitcher and less with his potential as an ambassador for the Red Sox in Japan. But it wouldn't surprise me if some of the marketing angles didn't at least contribute to the final price.
I personally would like to see the Sox go after Jason Schmidt, or Barry Zito, someone that is already used to baseball in the states, and then attempt to sign this guy, either way the Sox know that pitching is neccesary to win and Im glad they are shopping for arms rather than another big bat for their lineup......like some teams do....
Perk - this move is a lot bigger than simply signing a Zito or Schmidt type pitcher. There is tremendous top of the rotation potential here, Theo has wanted this guy for some time now (maybe that's why he didn't throw money at Pedro or Damon) also in part because of the flag the Red Sox are now planting over in the Far East - which has largely been Yankee territory until now. The Yankees have to be sick over this.
I mean it Jerry...your posts are becoming more and more and more funny! I am seriously laughing here!
When has the Far East been Yankees territory? Mariners have Ichiro and Jojima and at one time Suzuki (the relief pitcher), Dodgers had Nomo, White Sox have Iguchi, Mets signed Kaz Matsui, Dodgers with Saito, and the Yanks only have one...Hideki Matsui...and do you count Wang? He was a virtual unknown in the Yankees farm system, not already a star. Count Irabu if you must.
And just my opinion, though he may have the POTENTIAL being towards the top of a starting rotation, remember he has NOT pitched one day in the bigs!
I highly doubt the Yanks are sick over this. Sure they may have put in a decent bid but if they wanted it bad enough, we all know they had the money to pony up higher than the Bosox.
I love ya buddy At least you are consistent. All you do is read the Red propaganda and then change a few words and use them as your own. The Yankees sick comment? Ha! You stole that one from a article that I know I read either on the Globe or another Sox mouth piece source. I will have to post the link
Anyway ...... planting a flag? Did the Sox just land on the moon? Newsflash! The Sox have alot more teams in front of them that "planted the flag"
I will let his level of talent debate ride until the regular season when this guy proves to be nothing better then a above average major league starter at best. Thank goodness the Yankees did not shell out that kind of money and are stocking up the minors with young power arms. The downside is that the Red Sox blunder here on the amount of money will jack up the prices for any free agent starter .... the sky is now the limit. Didn't Texas teach anybody a lesson with A-Rod ??????
Some four years ago, when the Red Sox lost out to the Yankees for the services of Cuban émigré Jose Contreras in a Nicaraguan hotel, a miffed Larry Lucchino, the team's CEO and president, bemoaned the fact that "the Evil Empire extends its tentacles even into Latin America."
Just three months ago, Theo Epstein stood on the field at Fenway Park, answering criticism that the Red Sox had ceded the AL East title by not dealing for Bobby Abreu -- as the Yankees had done -- and said the Sox were merely acknowledging the Yanks' edge in resources. "That's the reality. It's going to occasionally leave us short … every time there's a player who's available in a bidding war or taking on a contract or getting the best free agent."
But Tuesday night, in submitting the winning post for Japanese pitcher Daisuke Matsuzaka, the Red Sox also forfeited the right to whine about their rival's economic might ever again.
By bidding $51.1 million merely to negotiate with Matsuzaka -- signing him to a contract might necessitate that much again -- the Sox also abandoned the moral high ground. That sort of "woe-is-us" defense tends to look a bit transparent when a team suddenly finds almost 6 billion yen stuffed under the mattress.
No more suggestions, please, that the Yankees are some financial superpower capable of trampling the rest of baseball with their reckless and boundless spending. No more talk about the Red Sox being the plucky underdogs that somehow must make do with less.
The Sox's insistence that the Yanks were economic bullies always seemed a bit hollow, anyway. Sure, the Yankees have baseball's deepest pockets, as might be expected in a sport in which local revenues are critical to a team's financial footing.
Here, though, is what the Red Sox never acknowledged: Although the Yankees could indeed outspend them, the Red Sox, in turn, could outspend the other 28 teams in baseball.
Do the Gettys complain about the Rockefellers?
It was the Red Sox's misfortune that the one club with more resources just happened to be their longtime rival, with whom they're locked in an annual battle for divisional supremacy.
That's not some cruel inequity; that's merely geographic bad luck.
What's clear now is that the Red Sox have few, if any, payroll limitations. They've been outspent by only the Yankees for the last five years. Even before the Yanks dealt for Alex Rodriguez, the highest-paid player in the history of the game, the Red Sox had the ignominious distinction of signing a player to the second-largest contract in the history of the game.
And now, presuming the Red Sox sign Matsuzaka, their Japanese superstar will earn substantially more than the Yankees paid theirs, Hideki Matsui, in his first MLB contract.
It's a well-established fact that, even with the introduction of revenue sharing and the competitive balance tax, baseball still can't lay claim to a level economic landscape. No amount of income redistribution can put a team in, say, Milwaukee on equal footing with one in Los Angeles.
Once again next season, the Red Sox will charge the highest average ticket prices in the industry. They will reap a fortune from NESN, their own regional TV network, and they will reap the benefits of the first year of the richest radio rights deal in sports, signed this past spring.
To their credit, they will reinvest in the on-field product. Their payroll, pegged at nearly $130 million last season, likely will nip at the luxury tax threshold of $148 million after Matsuzaka is signed and additional holes are filled in right field, shortstop and the bullpen.
No one ever called the Red Sox needlessly thrifty.
But now, as they begin negotiations to land the most expensive international free agent ever, they no longer can label themselves the Yankees' poor cousins. And for that, we should all be thankful.
The news that a major league team would pay $51.1 million to acquire the negotiating rights to a Japanese player shook the nation on Wednesday.
Daisuke Matsuzaka, his team and the Japanese public at large were stunned by the fee put up by the Boston Red Sox to talk to the 26-year-old Seibu Lions ace.
"When I heard the figure, I couldn't believe it," Matsuzaka told reporters at Narita Airport before boarding a flight bound for Los Angeles. "On one side, I am very happy to hear it, but I also feel some pressure.
I know I'm going to be labeled a Sox sympathizer from this but oh well....
You guys are looking at it from a talent standpoint in respect to planting that mark in Japan. It's not about that. It's about the other untapped revenues the Red Sox just opened themselves up to. The advertising alone will be in the multi millions. Anyone actually watch a home Yankee game this season? How much of the stadium has Japanese advertising in it? The Yankees give out countless press credentials to the scores of Japanese writers that follow Matsui on a daily basis. This will happen with the Red Sox and Matsuzaka as well. #55 & #2 jerseys sell like hotcakes over in Japan. Think of all those Red Sox jerseys that will suddenly start selling over there. I mean, Matsui is a god over there--his face is plastered all over everything, including airplanes. Funny thing is, there's only one other baseball player with that big of a following in Japan--Matsuzaka.
Red Sox are taking a huge gamble spending that type of money on this guy. They have to get it done and he has to be great, or else this will lead to years of franchise disrepair.
Next MONTH? So he's saying that if he wins, the best-case scenario is that he'll be paying for it two weeks after the auction ends?
Forget blocking him; find out where he lives and go punch him in the nuts. --WalterSobchak 9/12/12
Looking for Al Hrabosky and any OPC Dave Campbells (the ESPN guy)
I really dont have mixed feelings about this, my only feeling is I dont like it. Too Too much money for the gamble, I would take a MLB starter and half of another with this money. Well we will see how much they throw at this deal and hopefully it will work out........................................................................................????
Some "expert" was on T.V. and said that including the eventual contract Boston would have to win 5 World Series in a row to make this deal worth it money wise.
Those are interesting articles, Dan - but one thing to remember is this:
The Yankees, have, for the last half decade or more, given the middle finger to the luxury tax threshold. The Yankees, and only the Yankees, have done this, while Boston has at least been under this threshold (and thereby playing by the "rules" of the game). Even your carefully selected article points out that even after Matsuzaka is signed, they will still be under the luxury tax threshold this season - while the Yankees will certainly exceed it by a cool $50 million or more. So, while Yankee fans will use this move by the Sox as a way to say - "look at the Sox! They are just as bad as we are!" - the Sox have a lot of catching up to do to get anywhere near Yankee spending levels.
This move was the result of a lot of planning and scouting by an organization who didn't want to be outbid at the 11th hour by anyone else.
You mean ME as in I used a carefully selected article? Isn't that what you do with every Sox Yanks debate Jerry? Yep, it is.
Anyway, fair enough. You know I had to ride you for what will become just a blunder of big time proportions if this guy is not a annual 20 game win threat with over powering stuff. Afterall, they did spend more money then at least 4 big league teams entire payrolls just to deal with the guy.
Good luck! And welcome to the wonderful fan world of having ZERO margin for error before the critics come out!
Comments
Only time will tell with Pavano...but isnt that the case with this Japanese pitcher who has never seen a day in the bigs?
<< <i>
<< <i>I am soooooo happy that the Yankees didnt win this bid >>
Okay, man!
I really believe you, too! >>
Not for 51 Million! Would be interesting to know what the second highest bid was.
<< <i>A team could sign two high profile pitchers for 2-3 years each just for what the Bosox are paying for the rights to negotiate...and thats JUST the rights to negotiate! >>
When all is said and done, this could cost the Sox $75 million over the next three years (salary included).
Last year, Houston paid Roger Clemens $22 million for a partial season.
Not so crazy then, is it?
<< <i>Dan, where'd you copy that from? Sounds like a Yankee fan writer crying!
Was ESPN Jer! Come on, you spend ALL year long copying and pasting Red Sox propaganda
<< <i>this is a guy who by all accounts comes around very rarely these days (one Boston writer drew a comparison to when the Sox landed Pedro from Montreal). This will not only give the Sox a young and powerful starting rotation for the next 3 years (at least, with Matsuzaka, Papelbon, Beckett and Schilling for 2007) >>
yeah, the SAME EXACT STUFF was written about Hideki Irabu. Cross your fingers Jerry! Cause if this guy wilts facing real big league hitters this will be a COLOSSAL blunder. And I for one, can't wait for it to happen
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i> When all is said and done, this could cost the Sox $75 million over the next three years (salary included).
Last year, Houston paid Roger Clemens $22 million for a partial season.
Not so crazy then, is it? >>
Jerry, you think Scott Boras is gonna settle for 24 million over three years ????
Not so crazy? Of course not Jerry Werry. Its the Red Sox now so allllll is ok with it
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Jer, Clemens is a pitcher that comes around every 1/4 century! There's no comparison!
There is no more valuable commodity in the game than young ace pitchers, and the Red Sox boldly just redefined the value.
The Red Sox decided what a premier pitcher on the open market is worth -- you might creatively start with the prorated $22 million salary the Astros established last season for Roger Clemens, who is 16 years older than Matsuzaka -- then added in the ancillary income from new sponsorships and merchandising that come from featuring an international star (teams keep what they earn from their own stores and equally share other sales with the other 29 teams), tossed in the worth of a halo effect of extending Red Sox Nation to the Far East, and threw in a few more million to make sure they won the bidding war for Matsuzaka's rights. Maybe the number is not so crazy after all -- assuming, of course, that Matsuzaka stays healthy.
See, premier pitchers, the ones entering their prime, just don't get on the market any more, not since the full-blown revenue sharing kicked in. (Yes, Barry Zito is out there this year, but is he a true ace?) Teams that once routinely waited to pick off aces such as Curt Schilling, Greg Maddux, Kevin Brown, Randy Johnson, Mike Mussina, Tim Hudson and Mike Hampton in another era can't count on those kinds of pitchers going up for sale anymore.
<< <i>Jerry, you think Scott Boras is gonna settle for 24 million over three years ???? >>
Estimates are somewhere around $8-10 million a season, but no one really knows - I was just guessing.
Wow - you Yankee fans are so predictable. You guys are crying about big spending now! Hilarious!
And, to say you wouldn't have paid the money for him is insane, when your team has overpaid and overpaid for players with nowhere near the pedigree of Matsuzaka.
By bidding such an outrageous number, the Red Sox are essentially saying, in their minds, Matsuzaka is a No. 1 starting pitcher in the major leagues, worthy of more money than any pitcher in the history of the game, even though he's never thrown a single pitch in the majors. Because on top of that, they are going to have to negotiate a contract with Matsuzaka's agent, Scott Boras, who almost surely is going to tell them: "You've made it clear how highly you regard my client, now how about showing him the money."
You have to believe Boras' starting point with the Red Sox is going to be the $14.5 million per year, Houston's Roy Oswalt's industry benchmark deal for starting pitchers last year. Conceivably, the Red Sox would agree with that, except only in terms of the posting bid money as part of the overall contract. The only way one can imagine Boras agreeing to anything like that is if he is able to extract some of that $50 million from Seibu for his client, which is supposedly illegal under the terms of MLB's agreement with Japan.
But let's assume the Avenging Agent concedes it isn't realistic to establish a pitcher who's never pitched in the majors in the highest echelon salary structure and the Red Sox are able to do a deal for four years around $10 or $11 million per. That's still a blind commitment of upwards of $90-94 million which, factoring in the posting bid, would make Matsuzaka a $23-24 million-per-year pitcher.
If the Yankees posted this kind of bid the Jerry's of the world would be up in arms and yelling for months and months. It is so cool to see hypocracy happen right in front of your eyes!
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>Well, let me copy and paste some good propoganda from Tom Verducci over at SI for you Dan -
There is no more valuable commodity in the game than young ace pitchers, and the Red Sox boldly just redefined the value.
The Red Sox decided what a premier pitcher on the open market is worth -- you might creatively start with the prorated $22 million salary the Astros established last season for Roger Clemens, who is 16 years older than Matsuzaka -- then added in the ancillary income from new sponsorships and merchandising that come from featuring an international star (teams keep what they earn from their own stores and equally share other sales with the other 29 teams), tossed in the worth of a halo effect of extending Red Sox Nation to the Far East, and threw in a few more million to make sure they won the bidding war for Matsuzaka's rights. Maybe the number is not so crazy after all -- assuming, of course, that Matsuzaka stays healthy.
See, premier pitchers, the ones entering their prime, just don't get on the market any more, not since the full-blown revenue sharing kicked in. (Yes, Barry Zito is out there this year, but is he a true ace?) Teams that once routinely waited to pick off aces such as Curt Schilling, Greg Maddux, Kevin Brown, Randy Johnson, Mike Mussina, Tim Hudson and Mike Hampton in another era can't count on those kinds of pitchers going up for sale anymore. >>
This looks somewhat half sarcastic and half serious. I can see where he comes from when a premier pitcher rarely comes on the market...but then when he describes this "investment", it almost seems he is ridiculing it.
The Mets reportedly had the second highest bid submitted for Daisuke Matsuzaka, offering up $38 million.
Rumors still have the Yankees at around $30 million.
If the Mets were willing to commit $80 million-$100 million to bring in Matsuzaka, it's easier to see them ending up with Barry Zito.
But, the Red Sox did what it took to make a deal possible (what's 20 more million to the Yanks? a utility infielder or two?) - and they are the crazy team?
Forget blocking him; find out where he lives and go punch him in the nuts. --WalterSobchak 9/12/12
Looking for Al Hrabosky and any OPC Dave Campbells (the ESPN guy)
<< <i>You actually think that number is close? Red Sox bid was nearly 50% of the second highest bid! Are there guys sitting around a table asking themselves if they bid too much and what have they gotten themselves into now that the rain has cleared???? >>
Okay, but when I mention that the Yankee payroll has been 50% greater than the team with the second highest payroll for the last several years (Boston) - all you guys did was say that it wasn't that much. Funny how the math works differently, now.
<< <i>As a Yankee fan, I will say this. If Matsuzaka is the real deal and becomes the Sox ace, you guys will have one helluva rotation that will compete all season. He could bridge the gap Pedro left when he became a Met. I'm also scared for you Red Sox fans though, because spending that much money on one player will cut into your free agent signings this season (and the next two seasons). All those other holes on the Sox have to be filled...which makes me wonder if Theo is up to something else. >>
According to the Boston Globe, Theo made two other offers to free agents already, I thought one of them was Julio Lugo or JD Drew, but the article mentions 2 pitchers - your guess is as good as mine.
Forget blocking him; find out where he lives and go punch him in the nuts. --WalterSobchak 9/12/12
Looking for Al Hrabosky and any OPC Dave Campbells (the ESPN guy)
The Red SOx are now officially part of that small sect of teams that MUST win the Series or else the season is a complete failure.
Beckett -BUST
Schilling - OLD MAN
Matsuzaka - UNKNOWN
I can't wait to root for this rotation to completely collapse and leave the Red Sox as a blundering bumbling franchise
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>Jer, Clemens is a pitcher that comes around every 1/4 century! There's no comparison! >>
But there is - (from Bob Ryan in the Globe)
Let's revisit the idea of just how good Mr. Matsuzaka is, or has been.
This means we must return to the ever-reliable, ever-conscientious, and ever-numerically-ready folks at Baseball Prospectus. A fellow named Clay Davenport has crunched the numbers, and his conclusion is that over the past four years Matsuzaka's stats compare quite favorably to those of Roger Clemens. "Although BABIP rates [don't ask] fluctuate for most pitchers," says Baseball Prospectus, "there is a level of quality at which it stops looking random and starts speaking to simple dominance, and this comparison indicates that Matsuzaka is one of those guys . . .He's not simply a really good pitcher; he's arguably the best starting pitcher on the market this winter, eclipsing Jason Schmidt and Barry Zito."
<< <i>As a Yankee fan, based on all the testimonials, I wanted Matsuzaka to be with the Yanks badly, >>
Yes, I know. In fact, I recall several posts here over the last year where Yankee fans simply assumed that Matsuzaka was going to don the pinstripes in 2007. A foregone conclusion, no other team even had a shot. Perhaps why I can't believe that some of you would dump on the Sox spending the money. If the Yanks were doing it, it would be a great day in Yankee history.
Lets revisit that ALL OF THIS CRAP was said and written by every expert there was or is about Hideki Irabu. Oh the joy it will bring to watch this guy get slapped around by real big league lineups.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i> . If the Yanks were doing it, it would be a great day in Yankee history. >>
yeah, and you would be crying about it. What is your point? The very thing you are claiming Yankee fans would be doing you ARE doing
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>Again,
Lets revisit that ALL OF THIS CRAP was said and written by every expert there was or is about Hideki Irabu. Oh the joy it will bring to watch this guy get slapped around by real big league lineups. >>
Dan, first of all, there is no comparison between Hideki "Fat Toad" Irabu and Matsuzaka. I know you are bothered by this turn of events, but please - read the background on Matsuzaka before you say anything. Sure, he's unproven in MLB - but so was Ichiro, and so was your very own Matsui - 2 pretty good players, wouldn't you say?
<< <i>ctsoxfan, I think most people would agree that this is a quality player. He throws in the high 90s, and has the gyroball, and is very young. But ~$30 million per season does not make sense considering that the highest amount that a pitcher has ever earned for a full season in history is I believe $16-18 million. >>
I see your point - but from what I've read, they are looking at the big picture here. The marketing potential the Red Sox would have in the Far East would seem to be worth a lot of money. They have clearly raised the bar here, but it only makes sense because of the type of player Matsuzaka is.
<< <i> Dan, first of all, there is no comparison between Hideki "Fat Toad" Irabu and Matsuzaka. I know you are bothered by this turn of events, but please - read the background on Matsuzaka before you say anything. Sure, he's unproven in MLB - but so was Ichiro, and so was your very own Matsui - 2 pretty good players, wouldn't you say? >>
Oh yes there is a comparison! I can't believe how blind one becomes! Irabu did not earn great names like "Fat Toad" until AFTER he was a bust!. The completely VALID argument is that Irabu had similar or BETTER numbers in Japan and was over hyped by the media and scouts like this guy is.
51 MILLION
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i> , but it only makes sense because of the type of player Matsuzaka is. >>
MIGHT be
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>
<< <i>Jer, Clemens is a pitcher that comes around every 1/4 century! There's no comparison! >>
But there is - (from Bob Ryan in the Globe)
Let's revisit the idea of just how good Mr. Matsuzaka is, or has been.
This means we must return to the ever-reliable, ever-conscientious, and ever-numerically-ready folks at Baseball Prospectus. A fellow named Clay Davenport has crunched the numbers, and his conclusion is that over the past four years Matsuzaka's stats compare quite favorably to those of Roger Clemens. "Although BABIP rates [don't ask] fluctuate for most pitchers," says Baseball Prospectus, "there is a level of quality at which it stops looking random and starts speaking to simple dominance, and this comparison indicates that Matsuzaka is one of those guys . . .He's not simply a really good pitcher; he's arguably the best starting pitcher on the market this winter, eclipsing Jason Schmidt and Barry Zito." >>
ANYONE and I mean ANYONE who compares a Japanese pitcher to a future MLB HOFer is off his rocker!! Matsuzaka's stats compare quite favorably to Roger Clemens...but is this Roger Clemens pitching in MLB or in Japan? That is just ridiculous!!!
Im not saying that Matsuzaka doesnt have the chance to be good..maybe even great? Boy, for the money you better hope GREAT! In the end, the only comparison to Clemens will be SALARY!
Thus far, there has been no Asian pitcher that has come to make star status in the majors. Nomo might be the best of them so far...and thats not real good. Wang could end up proving to be the best but lets give that a couple more years. There is a HUGE difference in the hitters from Japan compared to the pitchers. Not so much unlike MLB really.
Don't get me wrong...I would have liked the Yankees to have gotten the right to negotiate with him too. Even though they Yanks spend a lot of money, I am glad to see some diligence in this situation. Some of that diligence may be because the Yankees HATE negotiating with Scott Boras. I dont know the history of why that is but I have heard it often.
If Matsuzaka ends up being a bust, I think owners will remember this one for a very long time...as far as pitchers go anyway.
No offense buddy, but can you honestly look yourself in the mirror and say that if this was the Yankees you wouldnt be bashing this move from about 6 different directions ?
Overspending, unproven, everything thats wrong with baseball economics, etc, etc, etc.
And your marketing argument is really a stretch. Sure, he will bring the Sox money from all that, but using that logic the Yankees can overspend on ANY player, from ANY nation because they have the largest fan base in the country and around the world.
So any player they sign would bring them $$ back in merchandising worldwide. Johnny Damon made the Yankees alot more money in marketing than he would the Sox, because they have a larger fan base worldwide.
I for one dont care about the spending. If I have no problem with the Yankees spending whatever they want, whenever they want, then I certainly cant make waves about another team doing so. Its just a matter of being consistent with that viewpoint, and not being for it when its one team, and against it when its another.
In the end, only time will tell what this means to the Red Sox. Until he pitches for a couple of years anything that is said by proponents or opponents of this move is purely speculation.
-- Yogi Berra
<< <i><<The marketing potential the Red Sox would have in the Far East would seem to be worth a lot of money. They have clearly raised the bar here, but it only makes sense because of the type of player Matsuzaka is.>>
I disagree to a large extent with this sentiment because he is a pitcher. Pitching wins ball games and they're worth a lot of money, no doubt. But for whatever reason, they just don't resonate with fans the way position players do. Fans don't adore Pedro, or Randy, or Mussina. They adore Jeter, ARod (except Yankee fans), Sosa (before steroids), McGwire (before steroids), Ripken, etc. You get the point. History is the same with names like Ruth, Cobb, Mays, DiMaggio, Aaron, Mantle, etc. Nolan Ryan may be an exception but fans just don't relate to pitchers as much. Probably because they don't hit well (or at all in the AL), and they don't run the field playing defense (all that much). >>
Nomo was- and actually still is-- a legend in Japan. The Red Sox may be hoping that Matsuzaka's marketing appeal in Japan ends up being as big as Nomo's.
Are you insinuating that this could be a financial move to make money and just HOPE he is effective in MLB? Of course the more successful he is the more money a team could make through marketing...but to buy a player for that sort of financial gain?
Is this going to be some new "economics" of baseball? Who cares how good the player is, lets just cash in on their popularity!
<< <i><<The marketing potential the Red Sox would have in the Far East would seem to be worth a lot of money. They have clearly raised the bar here, but it only makes sense because of the type of player Matsuzaka is.>>
I disagree to a large extent with this sentiment because he is a pitcher. Pitching wins ball games and they're worth a lot of money, no doubt. But for whatever reason, they just don't resonate with fans the way position players do. Fans don't adore Pedro, or Randy, or Mussina. They adore Jeter, ARod (except Yankee fans), Sosa (before steroids), McGwire (before steroids), Ripken, etc. You get the point. History is the same with names like Ruth, Cobb, Mays, DiMaggio, Aaron, Mantle, etc. Nolan Ryan may be an exception but fans just don't relate to pitchers as much. Probably because they don't hit well (or at all in the AL), and they don't run the field playing defense (all that much). >>
I could not disagree with you more. I see the point you are trying to make, but baseball fans don't "adore" Clemens? Pedro Martinez? Randy Johnson (in his day)? There was a point, a few seasons ago, where I would say Pedro Martinez was the most popular player on the Sox. Clemens was, before him. The scouts and media are making Matsuzaka out to be in that same class of pitcher, if indeed he is, then I think there will be a lot of Red Sox jerseys sold over in Japan very soon.
<< <i>
No offense buddy, but can you honestly look yourself in the mirror and say that if this was the Yankees you wouldnt be bashing this move from about 6 different directions ?
I for one dont care about the spending. If I have no problem with the Yankees spending whatever they want, whenever they want, then I certainly cant make waves about another team doing so. Its just a matter of being consistent with that viewpoint, and not being for it when its one team, and against it when its another.
>>
Sure it is OK that the Sox spent crazy money even by Yankee standards. Its OK because it his his Red Sox this time around. Again, I can't wait to see how this shakes out
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Baseball, I know if he does not sign he goes back and the Sox get the money back. I was saying, now that they are the only team to negotiate with him why not low ball? I read somewhere that for him to go back to Japan under that condition would be a disgrace.
Steve
<< <i>Boo
Are you insinuating that this could be a financial move to make money and just HOPE he is effective in MLB? Of course the more successful he is the more money a team could make through marketing...but to buy a player for that sort of financial gain?
Is this going to be some new "economics" of baseball? Who cares how good the player is, lets just cash in on their popularity! >>
No. I don't know why they paid so much just for the right to negotiate with him, but I'm sure it has more to do with his potential as a pitcher and less with his potential as an ambassador for the Red Sox in Japan. But it wouldn't surprise me if some of the marketing angles didn't at least contribute to the final price.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
I mean it Jerry...your posts are becoming more and more and more funny! I am seriously laughing here!
When has the Far East been Yankees territory? Mariners have Ichiro and Jojima and at one time Suzuki (the relief pitcher), Dodgers had Nomo, White Sox have Iguchi, Mets signed Kaz Matsui, Dodgers with Saito, and the Yanks only have one...Hideki Matsui...and do you count Wang? He was a virtual unknown in the Yankees farm system, not already a star. Count Irabu if you must.
And just my opinion, though he may have the POTENTIAL being towards the top of a starting rotation, remember he has NOT pitched one day in the bigs!
I highly doubt the Yanks are sick over this. Sure they may have put in a decent bid but if they wanted it bad enough, we all know they had the money to pony up higher than the Bosox.
I love ya buddy
Anyway ...... planting a flag?
I will let his level of talent debate ride until the regular season when this guy proves to be nothing better then a above average major league starter at best. Thank goodness the Yankees did not shell out that kind of money and are stocking up the minors with young power arms. The downside is that the Red Sox blunder here on the amount of money will jack up the prices for any free agent starter .... the sky is now the limit. Didn't Texas teach anybody a lesson with A-Rod ??????
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Special to ESPN.com
Some four years ago, when the Red Sox lost out to the Yankees for the services of Cuban émigré Jose Contreras in a Nicaraguan hotel, a miffed Larry Lucchino, the team's CEO and president, bemoaned the fact that "the Evil Empire extends its tentacles even into Latin America."
Just three months ago, Theo Epstein stood on the field at Fenway Park, answering criticism that the Red Sox had ceded the AL East title by not dealing for Bobby Abreu -- as the Yankees had done -- and said the Sox were merely acknowledging the Yanks' edge in resources. "That's the reality. It's going to occasionally leave us short … every time there's a player who's available in a bidding war or taking on a contract or getting the best free agent."
But Tuesday night, in submitting the winning post for Japanese pitcher Daisuke Matsuzaka, the Red Sox also forfeited the right to whine about their rival's economic might ever again.
By bidding $51.1 million merely to negotiate with Matsuzaka -- signing him to a contract might necessitate that much again -- the Sox also abandoned the moral high ground. That sort of "woe-is-us" defense tends to look a bit transparent when a team suddenly finds almost 6 billion yen stuffed under the mattress.
No more suggestions, please, that the Yankees are some financial superpower capable of trampling the rest of baseball with their reckless and boundless spending. No more talk about the Red Sox being the plucky underdogs that somehow must make do with less.
The Sox's insistence that the Yanks were economic bullies always seemed a bit hollow, anyway. Sure, the Yankees have baseball's deepest pockets, as might be expected in a sport in which local revenues are critical to a team's financial footing.
Here, though, is what the Red Sox never acknowledged: Although the Yankees could indeed outspend them, the Red Sox, in turn, could outspend the other 28 teams in baseball.
Do the Gettys complain about the Rockefellers?
It was the Red Sox's misfortune that the one club with more resources just happened to be their longtime rival, with whom they're locked in an annual battle for divisional supremacy.
That's not some cruel inequity; that's merely geographic bad luck.
What's clear now is that the Red Sox have few, if any, payroll limitations. They've been outspent by only the Yankees for the last five years. Even before the Yanks dealt for Alex Rodriguez, the highest-paid player in the history of the game, the Red Sox had the ignominious distinction of signing a player to the second-largest contract in the history of the game.
And now, presuming the Red Sox sign Matsuzaka, their Japanese superstar will earn substantially more than the Yankees paid theirs, Hideki Matsui, in his first MLB contract.
It's a well-established fact that, even with the introduction of revenue sharing and the competitive balance tax, baseball still can't lay claim to a level economic landscape. No amount of income redistribution can put a team in, say, Milwaukee on equal footing with one in Los Angeles.
Once again next season, the Red Sox will charge the highest average ticket prices in the industry. They will reap a fortune from NESN, their own regional TV network, and they will reap the benefits of the first year of the richest radio rights deal in sports, signed this past spring.
To their credit, they will reinvest in the on-field product. Their payroll, pegged at nearly $130 million last season, likely will nip at the luxury tax threshold of $148 million after Matsuzaka is signed and additional holes are filled in right field, shortstop and the bullpen.
No one ever called the Red Sox needlessly thrifty.
But now, as they begin negotiations to land the most expensive international free agent ever, they no longer can label themselves the Yankees' poor cousins. And for that, we should all be thankful.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Special to ESPN.com
Archive
TOKYO -- This went well beyond a sports story.
The news that a major league team would pay $51.1 million to acquire the negotiating rights to a Japanese player shook the nation on Wednesday.
Daisuke Matsuzaka, his team and the Japanese public at large were stunned by the fee put up by the Boston Red Sox to talk to the 26-year-old Seibu Lions ace.
"When I heard the figure, I couldn't believe it," Matsuzaka told reporters at Narita Airport before boarding a flight bound for Los Angeles. "On one side, I am very happy to hear it, but I also feel some pressure.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
You guys are looking at it from a talent standpoint in respect to planting that mark in Japan. It's not about that. It's about the other untapped revenues the Red Sox just opened themselves up to. The advertising alone will be in the multi millions. Anyone actually watch a home Yankee game this season? How much of the stadium has Japanese advertising in it? The Yankees give out countless press credentials to the scores of Japanese writers that follow Matsui on a daily basis. This will happen with the Red Sox and Matsuzaka as well. #55 & #2 jerseys sell like hotcakes over in Japan. Think of all those Red Sox jerseys that will suddenly start selling over there. I mean, Matsui is a god over there--his face is plastered all over everything, including airplanes. Funny thing is, there's only one other baseball player with that big of a following in Japan--Matsuzaka.
Red Sox are taking a huge gamble spending that type of money on this guy. They have to get it done and he has to be great, or else this will lead to years of franchise disrepair.
Forget blocking him; find out where he lives and go punch him in the nuts. --WalterSobchak 9/12/12
Looking for Al Hrabosky and any OPC Dave Campbells (the ESPN guy)
The Yankees, have, for the last half decade or more, given the middle finger to the luxury tax threshold. The Yankees, and only the Yankees, have done this, while Boston has at least been under this threshold (and thereby playing by the "rules" of the game). Even your carefully selected article points out that even after Matsuzaka is signed, they will still be under the luxury tax threshold this season - while the Yankees will certainly exceed it by a cool $50 million or more. So, while Yankee fans will use this move by the Sox as a way to say - "look at the Sox! They are just as bad as we are!" - the Sox have a lot of catching up to do to get anywhere near Yankee spending levels.
This move was the result of a lot of planning and scouting by an organization who didn't want to be outbid at the 11th hour by anyone else.
Anyway, fair enough. You know I had to ride you for what will become just a blunder of big time proportions if this guy is not a annual 20 game win threat with over powering stuff. Afterall, they did spend more money then at least 4 big league teams entire payrolls just to deal with the guy.
Good luck! And welcome to the wonderful fan world of having ZERO margin for error before the critics come out!
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240