How important are original surfaces to you?

ccex

When I came home from work tonight, I found three Barber coins in my mailbox, which I won on eBay. All were raw, and all seemed to match the sellers pictures. There was a nice original AU-55 Barber quarter which made it all worthwhile, but the two Barber halves were cleaned. One of them was almost "market acceptable to me" but the other one (a 1902-O) just screamed artificial. My Barber half set had an original G-4 1902-O, and the new coin had F-15 details and no problems other than obvious, shiny cleaning. I had to think a while which coin belonged in my set. The new one was cheap ($18) and helped my goal to upgrade my set to full LIBERTY, but hindered my goal to keep this set full of original, not-messed-with circulated Barber Halves. I ended up putting the shiny Fine coin in the hole to upgrade the original G-4, but I'm not sure I made the right decision.

What would you have done? When you can't find or afford anything other than a hole-filler do you opt for an original coin beneath your standards or a cleaned one which has the detail you want?

Leiana

Original coins get my vote all the way, all the time!

-Amanda

solid

I would go with the G4 - I can appreciate nice, original and problem-free coins all the way down to basal-state.

A messed with coin is always that - messed with and out of place. Now, depending on how harsh the cleaning is,
you might be able to take the new F15 and carry it in your pocket for a year or two, being sure to handle it every
day, and wear that puppy down naturally to a pleasing F12 and be good to go.

Ken

Curley

My personal rule is to always buy coins that meet my own standards. I never buy a coin that is unacceptable to me to fill a hole. I am very patient and will bide my time until the right one shows up. Earlier, I would sometimes buy a less than appropriate coin and I quickly learned that for me, it would diminish the rest of the collection just seeing it side by side with the good ones.

RedTiger

I'll buy 'em any way I can find them. If a problem coin fits my budget and collecting goals, I'll buy it.

Problem coins that I own include holed and repaired, scratched, cleaned, acid treated, lightly dipped, artificially toned, the list goes on.

stman

I'll take a lower grade like this, then a scrubbed up, higher grade one any time. I'm not a set builder, but to me it don't matter if coins match or not. The main reason, is I don't keep them at home to put them next to each other anyway.

I have low grades, and higher grades, me likes them all.......

Dog97

I wouldn't keep the cleaned one. You are dissapointed in it and you will be dissapointed in your set as long as you have it. I like "original" but I can be flexible when it comes to a little something you don't notice but a shiney blantantly cleaned coin in a circ fine set is unacceptable to me.

morgannut2

You don't like the bad coin's 'LOOK"--------BUT NEVER ge into an a big arguement over the the cleaned/or uncleaned POS----I just say it doen't come close to matching the "look" I like of my others=== It just isn't the look I want ever.==pleaser return==

If that doesn't work my rule of thumb is not to buy (ever) a bad==even rare-- coin--especially just to finish a set"---Sets are aways worth less so who cares?
To answer your question" original surfaces---actually older surfaces ( who knows most times)---are the extreemly important." If you'd like a bright silver key--buy a reproduction for $9.95!

construct

<< <i>I'll buy 'em any way I can find them. If a problem coin fits my budget and collecting goals, I'll buy it.

Problem coins that I own include holed and repaired, scratched, cleaned, acid treated, lightly dipped, artificially toned, the list goes on. >>



I have all those sorts of problem coins and more in my collection. For now they're okay, but I'm not buying those sorts of coins anymore. I will buy a dipped (but not overdipped) coin in EF or above. No shiny Fines for me, thank you. And in silver I'll put up with an old, light cleaning that's retoned attractively. That's all.

I'd have returned the cleaned F-15 or planned to sell it at the next convenient opportunity. It also might make a reasonable gift, if you know someone who might like such a piece.

Now, how about this choice--two problem coins. Which is worse, a dipped-shiney dime in G-04 or a crusty-original F-12 that's slightly bent?

notwilight

Sometimes I'd rather have and xf cleaned coin than a vg original coin for the same money.--Jerry

FatMan

<< <i>How important are original surfaces to you? >>

It is currently number one for me when assessing a coin. Of course one can not be absolutely sure a coin is fully original. A lot can happen with a coin over 100+ years. But any coin for my collection must measure strong on the originality continuum.

bidask

buy original only

LeeG

I think you allready knew the answer before asking the question Got's to stick with originality. With patience, the right coin will turn up.

notwilight

Ok. I'll say one more thing. The purists who feel strongly for original surfaces will post, and have posted, their feelings in strong language. Those who don't care, don't care so they probably don't bother to post. Even if they did, they might feel they would be asked to defend their postion. So I don't think you should assume by this post that everyone but me will eschew an imperfect coin. There are homes for all the coins. --Jerry

fengk

It depends on how harshly the coin is cleaned. If it's just a light wipe from years ago, and I like the rest of the coin, I'll buy it. But for the harsh cleaning you described, I'd pass. It's your set. Put what you like into it. If you keep the cleaned coin in there for a few days and still think it goes better with your set, then keep it. But if you find that you like the old one in there, put it back and return the new one.

mozeppa

i'll admit original is important...however...some latitude...(more than we have now ,which is zero) should be given when the graders are discussing the coins conditions with regards to color, cleaning.............. and what have you.

its very unfair to give god-like powers to only three people to grade a coin!....what they say ...goes!(....wrong or right.)

my example is like many of yours,
1916 Lincoln cent, full red mint state coin...cartwheel luster out the wazoo!!

sent to pcgs comes back "questionable color or toning "
sent same coin to anacs...graded 64 red
took it to a show had the guys look at it at pcgs's booth all said it was nice (and could up grade) *side note*....i got it hoping for 66 red.
re-sub-mitted it in the anacs slab...came back "questionable color or toning " again!
just because the coin is so old........ that the thinking is that the color couldn't be that bright....give me a break!

i have many "toned" brown coins...in their slabs designated as red...(even have a bright red coin that they call red brown!)


really sometimes i think its all about the money!

original surface is as "original" as our earths environment will allow....somethings gotta give there too.

anablep

Its what I look for in a Morgan.

Hard to come by however, since many have been dipped to death.

RYK

I strive to buy coins with original surfaces and coloration when possible.

TwoSides2aCoin

I prefer original surfaces. Coins are coins until they reach a certain age or era, then they're classics. If they are classics, they are still awesome but so many have been dipped/cleaned that the availablity of coins in original surfaces are just not there to fill demand. Only in this instance is it easier for me to accept the lesser coin, and it's just for FILLER until such time as a GOOD one comes along.

BillJones

The only "conserved" coins that I would consider are Mint State silver pieces that have been properly dipped. While I prefer undipped coins, sometimes that is not possible or too hard to find.

I don't care for circulated coins that have been cleaned or dipped at all. I avoid those whenever possible. In your case, I'd pass on the bright 1902-O Barber half. Many collectors find such coins to be unattractive and downgrade them accordingly.

PerryHall

I prefer original coins but I will buy lightly cleaned coins that are market acceptable (slabbed by the top three grading services) AND if I find them eye appealing.

BillJones

Here's an example of a dipped coin that I found acceptable for my collection.

Coinhog

When it comes to "old gold", there is NO substitute. Dipping an "old gold" coin is akin to RAPING and Pillaging" our heritage. JMHO

RichieURich

Original surfaces - - as has been pointed out earlier in this thread, how many coins over a certain age still have original surfaces? The gold coins recovered from the shipwrecks look great after conservation, but they're not original. Any bright silver coin from the 1790's or early 1800's is probably not original, what could they have been stored in to prevent toning? If someone cleaned an 1850 quarter in 1910, does it look original now? My point is, we are talking about "original-looking" surfaces, they may or may not be original.

To answer the question, original surfaces are significant, but not having them doesn't disqualify a coin from purchase. If you're looking for an "original-looking" eye-appealing CC quarter from 1870 to 1873 with nice surfaces, you might have a long wait. So, I do purchase and have in my collection coins that do not have original surfaces, including holed and repaired, scratched, digs, cleaned, lightly dipped, and artificially toned. I would rather have a problem coin of a rare date in my collection than no coin of the same rare date.

Dog97

construct seys: Now, how about this choice--two problem coins. Which is worse, a dipped-shiney dime in G-04 or a crusty-original F-12 that's slightly bent?

That's an easy one! You take crusty-original F-12 that's slightly bent, wrap it in a piece of leather & lightly smash it with a hammer to unbend it and it's good as new.

mozin

Damaged coins will always be damaged coins. Stick with coins that at least are acceptable to the major grading services.

GoldenEyeNumismatics

original surfaces make or break a coin.

originalisbest

See my username.

roadrunner

Dipped or cleaned coins might be purchased along the way but they are usually never keepers. I pass on hole filling if it means buying a substandard example of a coin (cleaned, bent, corroded, etc). If the hole never gets filled, so be it. There are plenty of other dates and varieties to keep one occupied. Completing a set is a nice goal, not a mandate. I did enough hole filling in my very early days to keep me satisfied forever. If it fit in the hole, I bought it.

roadrunner

dorkkarl

<< <i>How important are original surfaces to you? >>

extremely, but not to the point that i'm paranoid about it, like so many folks seem to be. the facts of life include coins that are not original, & basically not available w/ 100% original surfaces.

K S

MrBreeze

Most of what I would say, has been said. My personal opinion is that the original "look" is more important than absolutely original "surfaces." Cleaned/dipped coins that are not uncirculated are the least desirable coins for me. Whenever I go to a shop, or show, I always find myself asking the following question at least once. Why would someone dip/clean a coin with less than XF details? It is somewhat rhetorical, but I guess everything retones, eventually. Put your half in a TB napkin and you got a winner in six months.