Is an MS70 coin in a first strike holder any better than an MS70 coin in a regular holder? If it is then then I'm wrong, but the coin is the coin right? My head hurts.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
Wow, I'm personally very suprised to see just how lopsided the count is on this. At 56 thinking the concept is bad, versus a mere 2 people who think that it's good is interesting. I hope that PCGS takes note of this one.
Unfortunatly, the only thing they might be taking note of is just how many submissions they've had requesting 1st strike on the mint's 20th Anniversary sets and coins.
Is there even any way to prove that the first coins sent out were actually struck first? How do we know the mint didn't produce all the coins in one long run and stack them as they were boxed, thus making the first out actually the last made? Am I missing something?
Could the last coin sent out actually be the first struck?
<< <i>1. My one friggen set is not for sale at any price. so one can't say I made a bundle when I am not selling. >>
I'm glad you are keeping your set. Like you, I believe these will be worth more in years to come. I am keeping my set too. It is still in original package and is postmarked well before the FS deadline, but when I submit I will submit for the 20th Ann. set only. Not first strike for obvious reasons that I have made clear in my posts on the matter.
<< <i>2. If every clever selling ploy means the destruction of our hobby, then you do not have very much confidence in a hobby that has lasted from Ancient Greece and before. >>
I do not believe this will bring on the destruction of our hobby. However, ACG, SGS, NTC, doctoring, etc. are clever selling ploys too. And each by themselves do not represent any threat, however combined with all the other clever selling ploys can be quite destructive.
<< <i>3.!st strike is neither good or bad, it just is. >>
I disagree. PCGS has knowingly re-defined a long standing numismatic term and not properly disclosed the fact to consumers. I could move it to the "it just is" category if they would simply place a disclosure statement on each First Strike™ with their newly fabricated definition.
<< <i>4. If you don,t like it, then dont play in the game and keep you shoes and your conscience clear and pure and clean. >>
As noted above I won't play the game. But that doesn't mean I should stop educating others to the faults of the game.
<< <i>5. For all those folks who played , sold and made some money. That money was probably put back into collector coins. Thus It could be said that overall 1st Strikes were good for the Hobby. >>
This is a real stretch to justify First Strikes™. If that's the best you can come up with for being good for the hobby, I'm pretty sure the Nays have it.
<< <i>6. For that matter, life its self is a racket. Some win, some lose and some just are shadows that pass thru life. >>
Life is not a racket. It is a gift from god. And with his blessing I win often. And I go out of my way to see that it is done on a win-win basis, not the expense of others. PCGS First Strikes™ are used in deceptive sales everyday. Just go to ebay and check the auctions. Only the very few define these slabs as what they are...defined by a postmark. Most do not define at all, and many blatantly misrepresent them as true numismatic first strikes.
The market is obviously ignoring the meaning of First Strike. The AGE 3 piece gold comes close to be considered first strike since they probably only released 2500 intially(guessismate) of these sets to qualify for this designation. 10,000 mintage is very low. But this only goes for the MS and reverse proof. The DCAM regular proof could have been struck anytime.
It is a minor negative. Yes, the term is a bit misleading, but it is mostly novices that seem to be taken in by it. 90% of educated collectors know by now what that the label means early ship date. If the label said "Early Shipment" many fewer people would have a problem with it, so to me, it is a lot of bother over some carefully chosen marketing words.
As is, it is fine by me. If people like it, and are willing to pay more for it, I don't have much of a problem with it. PCGS is getting $10 extra for an extra line of print on the label, so they seem very smart to me.
I will say one thing good about it. If a coin is labeled First Strike, odds are very high that the grade on the label was acheived after one submission. Don't think that is a big deal? If other coins, especially classic coins, were labeled "one submit only" and verifiably so, those coins would probably sell at a significant premium to those that were not.
And still sent in my first 3 ASE sets, to be labled "First Strike".
I didn't buy them for resale, but can't say they will NEVER be sold. I think its a shame if a MS/PR 68 "First Strike" set, will bring a much higher price than an unchanged set in the OMP. But does that mean I shouldn't try to get as much as possible for any I do sell? I don't think so.
There have been threads, against slabbing all together lately. I do see some merit in the argument "against". Like an ultra modern cent in high MS bringing MOON money. When, if removed from the holder, you can't buy gum with it. But if you have MOON money you can spend on said cent. And you want it. Go for it. I might think its crazy, but thats only my oppinion. I wont try to tell you how to spend your money.
(Old man) Look I had a lovely supper, and all I said to my wife was, “That piece of halibut was good enough for Jehovah”.
(Priest) BLASPHEMY he said it again, did you hear him?
<< <i>It's actually good in the long run. Why? It gets coins removed from "our" marketplace over to Coin Vault and the TV/Telemarketer sellers. Some of these coins find their way back, but probably a low percentage in the next ten years. This gets dollars into the hobby, and allows us to try to make a few bucks getting 69 and 70 graded coins for resale. We then use the profits to buy the stuff we really want. >>
I was able to buy som classic dahlonega and carson city gold with the dollars I made from the registry fans and PT Barnum circus dwellers who just had to have the "firststrikeshippedrecievedsubmittedsentbackebayed" labels.
The term First Strike™ is loosely applied and therefore has no meaning in it's current form.If it were applied correctly then it would have some meaning. BTW........I'm back if anyone missed me..............
<< <i>But the problem jamakin is that SOME might not know that First Strike™ is a gimmick. Say a mom bought her child one of these thinking it MEANT WHAT IT SAID on the label, or a young kid saw one of these while attending his/her first show and didn't realize.... therein lies the problem >>
If this were the case, the parents may not even know enough to know that First Strike™ didn't mean first strike. They would not even know what first strike was supposed to mean.
I feel as long as they are not putting First Strike™ on old coins, it is just a gimmick. Probably a short-lived gimmick at that as what others have written about people feeling they got burned by paying a premium for First Strike™ coins.
I would not pay a premium for First Strike™ coins, but I have bought a few SAE's because the price was right. They were actually cheaper than non-First Strike™ coins of the same year and grade. Go figure.
I think this First Strike™ business will be short-lived. I think it is good for the sellers who make out like bandits selling First Strike™ coins. I think it is good for the TPG's. I don't think it harms numismatics in any way because they are not doing this for "real" coins and these are probably not numismatists who are paying a premium for these bullion coins.
Jonathan
I have been a collector for over mumbly-five years. I learn something new every day.
Comments
Is an MS70 coin in a first strike holder any better than an MS70 coin in a regular holder? If it is then then I'm wrong, but the coin is the coin right? My head hurts.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
Unfortunatly, the only thing they might be taking note of is just how many submissions they've had requesting 1st strike on the mint's 20th Anniversary sets and coins.
entitled to their opinion. I only give my own opinion
and do not every seek to speak for others. It is only when
I get attacked for holding my opinion, that gets the bear defensive.
Its fine with me if 99% of the folks think that the idea is a bad one. It
just seems that with a whole bunch of folks buying, selling and grading
1st strikes, it does tend to give pause to the impression that everyone
would never indulge in such unseemly conduct. I guess it just must be me and Otis
who are indulging.
Camelot
Could the last coin sent out actually be the first struck?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Looking for alot of crap.
and the last shall be
first.
Camelot
<< <i>1. My one friggen set is not for sale at any price. so one can't say I made a bundle when I am not selling. >>
I'm glad you are keeping your set. Like you, I believe these will be worth more in years to come. I am keeping my set too. It is still in original package and is postmarked well before the FS deadline, but when I submit I will submit for the 20th Ann. set only. Not first strike for obvious reasons that I have made clear in my posts on the matter.
<< <i>2. If every clever selling ploy means the destruction of our hobby, then you do not have very much confidence in a hobby that has lasted from Ancient Greece and before. >>
I do not believe this will bring on the destruction of our hobby. However, ACG, SGS, NTC, doctoring, etc. are clever selling ploys too. And each by themselves do not represent any threat, however combined with all the other clever selling ploys can be quite destructive.
<< <i>3.!st strike is neither good or bad, it just is. >>
I disagree. PCGS has knowingly re-defined a long standing numismatic term and not properly disclosed the fact to consumers. I could move it to the "it just is" category if they would simply place a disclosure statement on each First Strike™ with their newly fabricated definition.
<< <i>4. If you don,t like it, then dont play in the game and keep you shoes and your conscience clear and pure and clean. >>
As noted above I won't play the game. But that doesn't mean I should stop educating others to the faults of the game.
<< <i>5. For all those folks who played , sold and made some money. That money was probably put back into collector coins. Thus It could be said that overall 1st Strikes were good for the Hobby. >>
This is a real stretch to justify First Strikes™. If that's the best you can come up with for being good for the hobby, I'm pretty sure the Nays have it.
<< <i>6. For that matter, life its self is a racket. Some win, some lose and some just are shadows that pass thru life. >>
Life is not a racket. It is a gift from god. And with his blessing I win often. And I go out of my way to see that it is done on a win-win basis, not the expense of others. PCGS First Strikes™ are used in deceptive sales everyday. Just go to ebay and check the auctions. Only the very few define these slabs as what they are...defined by a postmark. Most do not define at all, and many blatantly misrepresent them as true numismatic first strikes.
Box of 20
As is, it is fine by me. If people like it, and are willing to pay more for it, I don't have much of a problem with it. PCGS is getting $10 extra for an extra line of print on the label, so they seem very smart to me.
I will say one thing good about it. If a coin is labeled First Strike, odds are very high that the grade on the label was acheived after one submission. Don't think that is a big deal? If other coins, especially classic coins, were labeled "one submit only" and verifiably so, those coins would probably sell at a significant premium to those that were not.
First
Blindly
Submitted
And still sent in my first 3 ASE sets, to be labled "First Strike".
I didn't buy them for resale, but can't say they will NEVER be sold.
I think its a shame if a MS/PR 68 "First Strike" set, will bring a much higher price than an unchanged set in the OMP. But does that mean I shouldn't try to get as much as possible for any I do sell?
I don't think so.
There have been threads, against slabbing all together lately. I do see some merit in the argument "against". Like an ultra modern cent in high MS bringing MOON money. When, if removed from the holder, you can't buy gum with it.
But if you have MOON money you can spend on said cent. And you want it. Go for it. I might think its crazy, but thats only my oppinion.
I wont try to tell you how to spend your money.
(Priest) BLASPHEMY he said it again, did you hear him?
<< <i>It's actually good in the long run. Why? It gets coins removed from "our" marketplace over to Coin Vault and the TV/Telemarketer sellers. Some of these coins find their way back, but probably a low percentage in the next ten years. This gets dollars into the hobby, and allows us to try to make a few bucks getting 69 and 70 graded coins for resale. We then use the profits to buy the stuff we really want.
K S
is good for Numismatics in the long run. But, for those
who don't believe that, it's OK too.
Camelot
BTW........I'm back if anyone missed me..............
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
<< <i>But the problem jamakin is that SOME might not know that First Strike™ is a gimmick.
Say a mom bought her child one of these thinking it MEANT WHAT IT SAID on the label, or a young kid saw one of these while attending his/her first show and didn't realize.... therein lies the problem >>
If this were the case, the parents may not even know enough to know that First Strike™ didn't mean first strike. They would not even know what first strike was supposed to mean.
I feel as long as they are not putting First Strike™ on old coins, it is just a gimmick. Probably a short-lived gimmick at that as what others have written about people feeling they got burned by paying a premium for First Strike™ coins.
I would not pay a premium for First Strike™ coins, but I have bought a few SAE's because the price was right. They were actually cheaper than non-First Strike™ coins of the same year and grade. Go figure.
I think this First Strike™ business will be short-lived. I think it is good for the sellers who make out like bandits selling First Strike™ coins. I think it is good for the TPG's. I don't think it harms numismatics in any way because they are not doing this for "real" coins and these are probably not numismatists who are paying a premium for these bullion coins.
Jonathan