I'm thinkin of giving this 1916 Buffalo nickel a lil' dip
gyocomgd
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This also came in the mail today. It's original and the strike is crisp to say the least, but I think maybe the luster is buried. I'm contemplating a flash dip in the blue stuff. Now, it may be that the coin just isn't that lustrous to begin with. But my thinking right now is that whatever toning is removed, may on balance be rectified by making it a little brighter. What do you think--and feel free to assign a grade.
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The strike is super nice, but if the lustre is impaired like you say, then I think any estimate above 64 is optimistic. Plus there is a hit in the field below the bison and some marks in the Indian's hair.
I think it is a nice original piece with deep toning.
Again, thanks for sharing a nice coin (and I hope you don't dip it!
-Amanda
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It's hard to tell from a pic but I suspect there's a little wear under there.
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I dipped a 1916 2 years ago that had obviously great luster and have left it to re-tone, which it has done nicely. However, the luster was evident before-hand.
Hoot
<< <i>Remember, these coins can have a nearly satiny surface and an attendant dull luster. If the patina is ugly in-hand, then you may want to dip it lightly and let it re-tone. Dark patination will limit the grade on these pieces, as will a lack of obvious luster, so the question can aonly be answered by you, Guy.
Hoot >>
I think you're right, Mark. That coin will never look like the 1916 I'm showing here. But it's just not very pleasing the way it is now and I'm going to give the coin a light dip and see what happens. If it doesn't improve it, what the heck.
Note, I've no intention of "ruining" the coin. I'm talking a very quick in and out, with cold water an baking soda at the ready.
Now, here's what a more brilliant 1916 looks like:
Dipping a nickel is not a wise thing to do. The coin you posted looks very nice as is. It took 100 years to acquire that patina. Let 'er go another 800 or 900 years.....maybe more.
With or without luster, I think that coin looks great as is. The toning only serves to accentuate the details.
Good luck!!
That isn't that much toning as to totally conceal the luster. I'm thinking after you dip it, you'll have a flat-finish nickel.
If you want to try something else, try a quick dip in MS-70. This may lighten the coin a bit without stripping it, and may make it look better if it has undelying luster.
I would NOT try Jewelluster. It usually ruins copper/nickel pretty quickly.
My questioin is, does dip work on nickel?
--Jerry
My questioin is, does dip work on nickel?
--Jerry>>>
Several posts up:
I don't know how a dip is supposed to make luster magically appear. Makes it more shiny but does not create luster. Been my experience that nickel doesn't dip well. The 75% freshly exposed copper alloy quickly retones reddish brown like all the other slabbed Buffalo Nickels you see for sale nowdays. I'd recommend dilutating your dip by 50% for what you are trying to do.
Good luck!!
<< <i>
I don't know how a dip is supposed to make luster magically appear. Makes it more shiny but does not create luster. Been my experience that nickel doesn't dip well. The 75% freshly exposed copper alloy quickly retones reddish brown like all the other slabbed Buffalo Nickels you see for sale nowdays. I'd recommend dilutating your dip by 50% for what you are trying to do.
Good luck!! >>
I agree. But removing an unattractive substance can absolutely make what luster is there more apparent. As I noted in my first post, the coin may simply not have much luster to begin with, and I realize that a dip will not "make luster magically appear." My basic question is whether removing some oxidization would accentuate the luster, and whether this coin is a good candidate for that.
By the way, what do you dilute your dipping solution with? And would a shorter duration in the full-strength chemical achieve the same purpose?
One last thing. I've found that a good hard rinse in cold water followed by a good soak in baking soda dissolved in water, diminishes the possibility of those ugly brown streaks.
Thanks very much for your thoughts.
Guy
My questioin is, does dip work on nickel?
No.
<< <i>By the way, what do you dilute your dipping solution with? And would a shorter duration in the full-strength chemical achieve the same purpose? >>
EZest or equivalent thiourea solution can be diluted with distilled water. You might want to dilute 1 part EZest to 10 water and try that in a quick dip. I've had good success with this an nickels as long as you don't use any other metal in the dip solution.
Hoot
Don't dip the coin.
Respectfully,
Garrow
<< <i>I don't buy the "It's your coin, so do what yoiu want." There are only a limited number of buffalos (or any other coin) and they will be around long after we are gone. What happened to taking responsibility for being caretakers of our heritage for future generations of collectors? Remember that we don't really own these pieces, we are only borrowing them for a while.
Don't dip the coin.
Respectfully,
Garrow >>
Like I'm only borrowing my house, right?
My checking account tells me I'm doing a bit more than borrowing. It bears a remarkably strong resemblance to buying.
Take solace in this: If I ruin the coin, it will only make your unmessed-with coins more rare, and more valuable when the next person "borrows" it from you.
When the coin is ruined, I suppose it will be like the guy who put his elbow through his Picasso. Oh well. (Not that a common 1916 Buff can compare.)
Just my humble opinion anyway.
Garrow
By the way, what do you dilute your dipping solution with? And would a shorter duration in the full-strength chemical achieve the same purpose?
One last thing. I've found that a good hard rinse in cold water followed by a good soak in baking soda dissolved in water, diminishes the possibility of those ugly brown streaks.
Thanks very much for your thoughts.
Guy >>>
Right, I understand what you're saying. I don't see any "substance" that could be removed with acetone or MS-70. I see dark heavy tone which probably wouldn't even be removed with undiluted dip anyway, maybe lightened just a little. When you dip, you dip it in and pull it right out, you don't soak it so a shorter duration is irrevelant. Ezest is just too harsh for nickel because of the high copper content and it quickly retones, even if neutralized, at least it does where I live, which is a high humidity climate. MS-70 will lighten some toning but is harsh too. That's why it says "industrial strength" on the bottle and I don't like it. Hoot recommends 10/1 with distilled water and I have no reason to refute that. Don't over do it though, if it doesn't work the first or second time leave it alone or you will end up with a dull washed out POS.
I don't advocate dipping coins of your nature and I'm only telling you this because it sounds like you're bound & determined to do it, so at least do it "right."
Maybe I lament the poor dip jobs that have ruined some nice pieces.
Garrow
<< <i>Guy, inevitably it's yours and you will do what you want to do with it. Personally, I think it looks nice as is and would not mess with it. Leave it alone. JMHO.
I always appreciate your thoughts, Warren.
--Jerry
Please share that info because I really have to disagree with it. Dip some copper and see how it turns pink. That is damage. And also was your x's cleaner thiourea or ammonia based? Jewelry cleaner & coin dip are not the same thing.
I didn't bookmark what I read but indeed one un-validated reference said that the thioruea should prevent the pink color that bronze and copper turns when treated with acid (this was a museum restoration piece). I guess I'll dip some pennies tomorrow but it's too late tonight. Yes, my cleaner, as well as the Jeweluster that is often discussed, is thiourea based. Do you believe coin dips are not thiourea? I don't have any but I was under the impression that thiourea is the active ingredient.
And I should clarify: when I said I found evidence that thiourea won't hurt nickel or copper that was speaking from a jewelry or bronze statue standpoint, not from a coin conserving standpoint. And I should have said I found written opinions, not evidence. I'm not trying to take sides in the dip vs don't dip argument.
--Jerry
<<<Do you believe coin dips are not thiourea?>>No no I didn't think your jewelry cleaner was thiourea. I thought they outlawed thiourea because it was a carcinogen.
<<<And I should clarify: when I said I found evidence that thiourea won't hurt nickel or copper that was speaking from a jewelry or bronze statue standpoint, not from a coin conserving standpoint.>>> Ok thanks for the clarification.
I'm not a chemist and can't explain what the chemicals do so I'm not saying that thiourea will or won't harm copper or nickel. I sure it's just a stablizer (I may stand corrected on that) and the sulfuric acid is the active ingredient and causes damage to copper from a numismatic aspect, leaving it an unnatural pinkish red color that will get you a NG from the graders. Nickels and the clad layers on modern coins is 75% copper and while it looks good right after the dip it starts to turn ugly after a year or so. Sometimes. I'm sure there's people who's nickel & clad coins dipped well but I never had a good experience doing it.
Thiourea has to be labeled as "having been found to cause cancer in lab animals" but is still available on the hardware store shelf here in CA, of all places.
I think your description of thiourea as a stabilizer is pretty close. the more usual term is "inhibitor" as it allows the silver sulfice to be reduce to silver plus H2S by the acid without other reactions.
Up most of the night with a sick kid so not sure when I'll get penny's dipped but will report the result.
--Jerry
<< <i> I don't buy the "It's your coin, so do what yoiu want." There are only a limited number of buffalos (or any other coin) and they will be around long after we are gone. What happened to taking responsibility for being caretakers of our heritage for future generations of collectors? Remember that we don't really own these pieces, we are only borrowing them for a while. >>
I'm with Garrow on this one.
Best case - you get a the blue hue you want. It probably won't last. For many buffalos the copper that cause some of the toning comes back up to the surface again.
Middle case - you end up with an average looking bright Buffalo
Worst case - There is wear under the toning and now you have a confirmed AU.
It's an old coin and old coins should look old. Leave it alone.
I agree. I also like the originality.
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