Poll - Would You Rather Have a Collection of White (probably dipped) or Toned Coins.

poorguy

Would you rather have a collection comprised of toned coins or white coins knowing that the white coins were probably dipped and that there may be a small chance that some of the toned coins you bought were just "market acceptible". Which collection would you enjoy more? Which collection would you like to own and pass on to your children or even put up at auction?

This MOC crap is not going to have overwhelming adverse effects to the toned coin market.

I thought EVERYONE wanted to OUT the coin doctors. Now when one comes forward, admits his wrongdoing, everybody is running around screaming the sky is falling. Did you think it would be good for the hobby for all of the coin doctors to come out and say what they were doing? Isn't that what everyone wanted? If people knew of half of the stuff coin doctors were doing to nice truly rare pieces this little incident wouldn't matter diddly squat. Look at all of the nice original early gold pieces that are f*&ked with to get upgrades. THAT IS THE CRIME, not someone artificially toning common date morgans and shelling them off on eBay. Real rare coins are being ruined and people get outraged at this? Give me a break.

Geez people get a grip. So he toned a couple of dinky rattler holdered coins. Rattler holders have been known for quite some time to not be tamper proof. Duh! someone was going to figure out how to tone coins in them. If the job would have been better then it should have made a bigger splash but it wasn't.

Coin doctoring has been going on since the hobby began. Why cry home to mamma now because one guy actually admits to it? This hobby will not change. Learn about what you collect, buy what you enjoy, and go with your gut.

airplanenut

Toned, because I'm quite confident in my abilities to determine what is and isn't natural. The grading services surely help (especially for sight-unseen) but I make the final decision for each of my purchases, not the seller and not the holder.

Craton

Toned.......

Cladiator

How do you come up with the 1% figure?

Leiana

Crusty circulateds.

Oh wait, that's not a choice.

I like white Morgans, though.

-Amanda

poorguy

<< <i>How do you come up with the 1% figure? >>



Because 1 is the loneliest number.

I don't know. 1 coin out of 100 seemed fair. With white coins pre-1900 you can almost be assured that much more than 1% will have been altered by dipping. I love that double standard. It's cool to take toning off but putting it on is the crime. It should go both ways.

DNADave

<< <i>Crusty circulateds. >>

Oldnewbie

poorguy

<< <i> >>



If you want to believe that then go right ahead. I'll stand behind the coins we sell whether they are toned or not. Actually less than half of our coins have exceptional color and our biggest coins are big because of their rarity, not because of color. If the toned market dropped off the face of the earth it would not have a huge effect on us because the bulk of our inventory ($$ wise) is not in monster toners.

A good way to prevent crime is to put everybody in jail.
A good way to not get burned buying coins is to quit the hobby.
A good way to not get an AT coin is to buy only white coins.
A good way to buy a dipped out unnatrual coin is to buy only white coins.

There is risk in every worthwile endeavor whether it be building a crusty circulated type set or a beautifully toned set. Do what you enjoy.

ledzep87

On classics, I prefer crusty.

White coins-to me-are boring.

-YKSA

scher

Toned is the way...
Bruce Scher

bushmaster8

The good thing is...now toned coins will be cheaper to buy.

Cladiator

While I agree with you that white coins pre-1900 have nearly all been dipped or made "Artificially White" I doubt if only 1 out of 100 toned coins are AT. My gut instinct leads me to think it's a much higher percentage now a days.

ziggy29

Here's my hierarchy, at least for mint state silver:

Original toning > lightly dipped "white" coins > AT > heavily dipped "dead white" coins

The thinking is that AT coins might still be better than the heavily dipped and dead stuff if it's lightly dipped itself.

poorguy

<< <i>The good thing is...now toned coins will be cheaper to buy. >>



That is exactly the point I am trying to make. People want toned coins cheaper not because they don't want them around, but because they want to be able to afford them. The DEMAND is still strong. The biggest threat to the toned coin market is flooding it. I watched this happen with toned morgans when the Battle Creek hoard (not a collection) was dumped on the market. It softened the prices for toned morgans and now they are everywhere at more reasonable prices (but still with a nice premium).

Bochiman

I like nicely toned coins that I believe are NT.
That said, I don't think anyone can say what % are likely AT (and I don't think it is as low as 1% unless you are counting, as toned, any coin that has a flyspeck of non-white on it).

Also, I say the above with the knowledge that I don't buy the BIG toners. I have spent a little bit over "non-toned" value on a few coins and decided that wasn't what I wanted to do. I like the nicely toned coins but don't believe in large premiums for them, nor overly promoting them (gee....think that makes people try to AT things?)

IGWT

-- "Why cry home to mamma now because one guy actually admits to it?" --

Please. I own all my mistakes. Not once have I crawled back to NGC with my tail between my legs and a colorized Peace Dollar in my hand.

poorguy

<< <i>-- "Why cry home to mamma now because one guy actually admits to it?" --

Please. I own all my mistakes. Not once have I crawled back to NGC with my tail between my legs and a colorized Peace Dollar in my hand. >>



If you call "crawling back to NGC" getting the coin off the market, we did just that. Smartazz.

poorguy

The results are looking good for toned coins.

mgoodm3

i'd go toned, but not the wildly colorful type that the thread would tend to imply.

Russ

<< <i>All Toned (maybe 1% have a chance they are AT) >>



You're delusional if you think only 1% of these wild toners in reputable slabs are AT.

Russ, NCNE

RedTiger

1% is hysterical. That's like saying 10% of white 19th century coins are dipped. I don't know the number, but I would guess it is in the range of 5% to 25% for attractive AT coins in holders and more like 20% to 50% for nice looking 19th century blast white silver including Morgans. Reality check please.

The sad part is that both numbers are climbing every day. The recent events will only influence a very small number of people.

Steve27

Option 3: original white never dipped:

poorguy

<< <i>

<< <i>All Toned (maybe 1% have a chance they are AT) >>



You're delusional if you think only 1% of these wild toners in reputable slabs are AT.

Russ, NCNE >>



Where did I every say "Wild" toners? This thread is about white coins vs. Toned Coins.

Russ

<< <i><< All Toned (maybe 1% have a chance they are AT) >>

You're delusional if you think only 1% of these wild toners in reputable slabs are AT.

Russ, NCNE >>

Where did I every say "Wild" toners? This thread is about white coins vs. Toned Coins. >>



Nice dance. Wild toners are the ones that matter since they're the ones that are bringing ridiculous multiples.

Russ, NCNE

ritepath

White: toned coins are for the car wash.

Bochiman

Brandon,

You know I like you but I still have to say this:

Your thread seems a bit "out there" since you/Anaconda have a vested interest in toned coins and their prices staying high.
If you post your thoughts (on items like this) as a collector, please say so. If as a dealer, please say so.

Knowing what you guys buy (the high end, wild toned coins), I cannot help but feel this thread is more business/marketing/etc than it is from an individual. Hence, read with an eye towards intense exaggeration and skipped over.

dizzyfoxx

The most obvious answer to any question ever asked on this forum...

BillJones

My preference runs toward toned original, but I have some dipped pieces that I find acceptable. Here's an example. This coin is in an NCG AU-55 holder, it's fine by me. The detail is "all there" for the grade, which I've not found to be the case recently.



BTW I Totally agree with your comments about what coin doctors are doing to early gold coins for upgrades, Poorguy. It sucks.

agentjim007

admits his wrongdoing,

Are you on drugs?

He only admits wronng doing AFTER getting caught.

dizzyfoxx

<< <i>The good thing is...now toned coins will be cheaper to buy. >>



Yep, and I figured out a way to make money grow on trees. Everything's falling into place perfectly.

kryptonitecomics

Toned......if I was still buying..........I don't know what the percentage AT coins is in TPG holders....and I don't know if it's 1%........but I believe it's lower than most of the Toning unexperts on here believe it to be........now let's go outside and watch the sky fall

jmj3esq

My collection consists of both. I like both extremes.

poorguy

<< <i>Brandon,

You know I like you but I still have to say this:

Your thread seems a bit "out there" since you/Anaconda have a vested interest in toned coins and their prices staying high.
If you post your thoughts (on items like this) as a collector, please say so. If as a dealer, please say so.

Knowing what you guys buy (the high end, wild toned coins), I cannot help but feel this thread is more business/marketing/etc than it is from an individual. Hence, read with an eye towards intense exaggeration and skipped over. >>



The bulk of the coins we sell are NOT monster toners. Yes, we do appreciate nice color and will pay premiums for it but the bulk of the business we do is not in monster toned coins. We sell more $$ wise in other areas including early type of which we have a pretty substantial inventory. Like I said before, the toning market could tumble down to nill and it wouldn't have a big effect on us.

It is your perogative to read what I wrote with marketing/hype in-mind. It's cool that you voiced your opinion and I understand that others may feel the same way. But just believing a dog's tail is an extra leg with no foot doesn't make it so. It's still a tail, no matter what perception you may have of it.

Hadleydog

Monster toned for me, whether its raw or holdered, first generation or most recent slab, toned all the way.
I knew there would be some fallout over the coin doc thread, but didn't everyone see the coins? That funky blue was wrong wrong wrong, why do you think I looked further into it? My recommendation is to aquire some knowledge before jumping into the arena, but that would go with any area of our hobby. Seems like many that are preaching this is the end for toners don't even collect them. Yea, gonna get some real solid advice from them!
Collect what you like, but know what you collect.
For those of you who are interested in learning a little more about what to look for in natural vs artificial toning, I highly recommend a visit to the TCCS boards. There are some pictures of at'd stuff in the toned coin educational section, and tons of posts with natural coins. Again, a little education goes a long way.

cladking

I have nothing against toned coins but most are unattractive to me. Certainly
some are very beautiful, though. It is harder to grade a toned coin because
problems can be hidden by the toning. Even wear can be hidden if the toning
came after the wear.

Generally I prefer white or lightly toned coins.

Mesquite

I'm with dizzyfoxx on this one.

Hadleydog

<< <i>I have nothing against toned coins but most are unattractive to me. Certainly
some are very beautiful, though. It is harder to grade a toned coin because
problems can be hidden by the toning. Even wear can be hidden if the toning
came after the wear.

Generally I prefer white or lightly toned coins. >>



Very true about grading toners.
You can look at this from 2 sides, though. I love it when I find a nice ms64 or 65 that has toned after receiving it's grade limiting hits. The color often hides these marks from the naked eye, giving it the look and eye-appeal of a higher graded coin without taking the hit for what the paper insert says. I have also seen coins that look at least a couple grades lower if the marks/hits are enhanced by the toning. JMHO.

lablover

Toned for me! All white is to boring for my taste.

ANACONDA

I like nicely toned coins that I believe are NT.

The coins I like the best to hold and look at are wildly toned coins that I believe are NT. The problem is that the better the toning, the more likely it is that people will think it's AT.

Having said that, wildly toned coins that appear to be NT will STILL bring ENORMOUS premiums.

etexmike

<< <i>i'd go toned, but not the wildly colorful type that the thread would tend to imply. >>



I agree with this. I have a couple of Morgans that I guess would fall into the "monster" category. The majority of my toners do not. I really prefer the coins with the nice rainbows on them. You get some great colors and smoetimes with just small premiums. That keeps them more in my budget.

All the talk about the AT'ing will not scare me off from buying the toners. Falling prices wouldn't hurt my feelings any either. I do not have enough big money invested in them to hurt too bad. Lower prices would just allow me to purchase more of them which I would do.

-----------

etexmike

USAROK

As Hadleydog said:

<< <i>.... didn't everyone see the coins? That funky blue was wrong wrong wrong, why do you think I looked further into it? My recommendation is to aquire some knowledge before jumping into the arena, but that would go with any area of our hobby. Seems like many that are preaching this is the end for toners don't even collect them. Yea, gonna get some real solid advice from them!
Collect what you like, but know what you collect. ....... a little education goes a long way. >>


There won't be any change in the type of coins I look for - original with nice color and outstanding eye appeal.

I also support Poorguy's statement that

<< <i> ... I love that double standard. It's cool to take toning off but putting it on is the crime. It should go both ways. >>

Aethelred

I collect medieval English coins. In that field wild colors and blast white are both a problem and I would avoid them. Silver ages in a specific way, all silver is on the way to being more or less black. This is how a medieval silver coin should look:

bestclser1

<< <i>Monster toned for me, whether its raw or holdered, first generation or most recent slab, toned all the way.
I knew there would be some fallout over the coin doc thread, but didn't everyone see the coins? That funky blue was wrong wrong wrong, why do you think I looked further into it? My recommendation is to aquire some knowledge before jumping into the arena, but that would go with any area of our hobby. Seems like many that are preaching this is the end for toners don't even collect them. Yea, gonna get some real solid advice from them!
Collect what you like, but know what you collect.
For those of you who are interested in learning a little more about what to look for in natural vs artificial toning, I highly recommend a visit to the TCCS boards. There are some pictures of at'd stuff in the toned coin educational section, and tons of posts with natural coins. Again, a little education goes a long way. >>

Amen.

Bear

If a coin looks too colorful and pretty to be true

Then there is a good chance, it has been given

medical attention. The enhancement of naturally

toned coins, by an expert, will be extremely difficult

to distinguish from the real deal.Big bucks for toned

coins will not hereafter leave my wallet. I might still pay

a reasonable premium though.

lordmarcovan

<< <i>Would You Rather Have a Collection of White (probably dipped) or Toned Coins >>

Depends on what the toning looks like on the toned coins.

Cockney

neither , come on guys...If it looks to good to be true it probably is............



Its time we started showing some decent coinage around here

Cockney

Is that a farkin beut or what?

Elcontador

Brandon, the only dipped coins I like are ones which get rid of gunk that forms on their surfaces.

If you have real toning on a coin and try to dip it, you are going to get a numismatic equivalent of a barf bag, because original toning is part of the coin; it does not sit on top of its surfaces. Ergo, the coin will be stripped and ugly.

I avoid wildly toned coins for three reasons. I refuse to pay many multiples of sheet for any coin. I can find an attractively toned coin which is not wildly toned for what I think is a reasonable price. The coins which bring many multiples of sheet are the most likely to be AT'd.

Most coins I have are toned.