"The grading services are not your Mommy. Learn for yourself......"
"You're not experts. You're hypocrites. Stop oohing and aahing over coins today and bashing them tomorrow. Stop changing your opinion."
So, opinions are set in stone? They are static, never changing?
If I buy a used car, and later found out that it had been repainted(recolored), should I still feel the same way about the deal? I guess if I sold it to you and had your money in my pocket, the answer would be 'Yes'.
Let me try to clarify this for myself. Braddick- Are you saying that if NGC puts plastic around a coin you know to be AT'd than you are OK with that??? What if collector A buys this crap knowing your disclaimer than sells the coin to collector B who does not ??? Do personal ethics mean anything anymore??? Braddick- I find this hard to believe that you are taking this position. Didn't the other dealer that was outed for this at least put his head up his arse and denied denied denied--- then went on vaca??? Are any other forms of AT'ing acceptable to you if they are slabbable?
Braddick- are you going on vaca now ???
I am going to stop because I could go on and on..............
-- "I wonder if the powers that be at PCGS are taking very careful notes as this thread, and the one across the street, progress' ?" --
Some of the comments that I've read lead me to believe that some folks have overlooked Cohodk's earlier post: "Several of these coins that were in NGC plastic are now in PCGS plastic."
<< <i>All this makes me wonder what other doctoring we're buying that hasn't been outed yet. >>
Good question, may I suggest just go to any series where folks are going nut's over color and perhaps you have your answer. Of course some will go nut's over color and don't care how natural looking it is, or how it got there. Some will flame me but I suspect they have a vested interest.
But, what I read on these boards no matter how many folks say they hate coins being played with..... when someone points them out they say they don't care and it's "Pretty." They really should just go buy a bag of colored marbles and play with they little friends.
What series is next? Bust halves are hot. Sure are a bunch of colorful common date, late date ones flooding the market with wild colors. Could many of these be played with? Naw, couldn't be. Hahaha
BTW, for the ones that don't like what I got to say...... Once again...... I'm crushed.
Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
<< <i>Let me try to clarify this for myself. Braddick- Are you saying that if NGC puts plastic around a coin you know to be AT'd than you are OK with that??? What if collector A buys this crap knowing your disclaimer than sells the coin to collector B who does not ??? Do personal ethics mean anything anymore??? Braddick- I find this hard to believe that you are taking this position. Didn't the other dealer that was outed for this at least put his head up his arse and denied denied denied--- then went on vaca??? Are any other forms of AT'ing acceptable to you if they are slabbable?
Braddick- are you going on vaca now ???
I am going to stop because I could go on and on.............. >>
JRocco, I answer you on the off chance you are sincere in your questions- wanting to face an open dialogue. If I'm wrong on that and you only wanted to vent then maybe the following will assist someone else:
1- NGC has studied this issue, looking at many of these coins and have discussed it with both collectors/dealers who do not believe using MS70 is AT'ing the coin and with other collector/dealers who believe it is absolutely AT, no 'ifs' 'ands' or 'buts'. After all the arguments were spresented, NGC has decided to continue to holder these coins.
2- I'm not 100% sure what you mean by the vaca(ation) comments so I'll leave those alone.
-As I stated partially to TomB across the street, just because I don't act on each and every suggestion posed on this thread (I did add disclaimers and better warranties to each auction though) doesn't mean I turned a blind eye to them. It simply means I have decided not to act on them. Certainly you or anyone else doesn't expect me to automatically substitute your judgement for mine. True?
We disagree on this issue. It happens that NGC disagrees with you too. If a collector decides he doesn't like these coins- as many, many here have stated they don't- the market will dictate future value(s).
If a collector decides he doesn't like these coins- as many, many here have stated they don't- the market will dictate future value(s).
This is the biggest problem I have with your argument. You make your money now, and it becomes someone else's problem in the future.
What if the buyer is not knowledgeable on the issue and buys the coin because it is pretty?
Screw him.
What if the buyer down the road sells the coin to someone else who is not knowledgeable?
Screw him.
What about the destruction of numismatic heritage being performed by coin doctors who make these coins?
Screw numismatics.
Frankly, it would be more refreshing and candid to just come out and say that you are going to make and sell whatever coins you want because it is your right to do so in a capitalist society and damn the consequences. It certainly is your right.
RW - If there's a chance to make some serious bucks, you can bet seu bunda that there's doctoring going on. See Stman's comments re the later date CBHs. Yes, I've seen a number of them also. Some looked fine, and others looked more AT than the infamous Bear / Anaconda Peace $.
But it's not just the expensive coins. Hoot across the street showed a very skillful doctoring job on an 1839 AU details Large Cent, which almost anyone on these boards can afford. I've seen a baked pedigreed coin which was slabbed by one of the majors, and if someone I knew didn't tell me, I don't think I would have figured it out.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
<< <i>1- NGC has studied this issue, looking at many of these coins and have discussed it with both collectors/dealers who do not believe using MS70 is AT'ing the coin and with other collector/dealers who believe it is absolutely AT, no 'ifs' 'ands' or 'buts'. After all the arguments were spresented, NGC has decided to continue to holder these coins. >>
Sorry Braddick - just for clarification on this point. Are you stating that NGC has made a policy decision to continue holdering copper that they believe or reasonably suspect to have had its color added or enhanced by MS-70 or other commercial products. Not a shock - but I am surprised this was a public or semi-private official "policy decision."
Here is the disclosure added to the auction listings:
<< <i>In the interest of full disclosure: There is an interesting thread running regarding these toned Indian proof cents. If you're new to the coin forum open www.pcgs.com and access their U.S.Coin Forum. The thread is titled, "Two more IHC's that have a different appearance than they did two months ago" There is a like thread running also on the NGC coin forum (www.ncgcoins.com). I will also extend a 30 day return on these coins (outside of my typical seven day) should the buyer decide to take advantage of doing so. I will refund your full payment price along with your postage including the postage is cost you to get the coin back safely to me. This way you're not out a dime should you decide the coin is not right for you. >>
An awful lot of words that dance around the point without acknowledging that the appearance of these coins has been deliberately altered.
I just read this entire thread (from where I initially posted) and am thoroughly disgusted.
Members here are generally held to a higher standard than the rest of the blood sucking crapbags out there looking to screw us out of our money.
I didn't see anyone ask or Pat state....
Did you "make" these coins that you are selling Pat? (make as in "treat" them)
I honestly see no difference in someone that would make and then SELL these coins that they know will sell for stupid money SOLELY because of the color than someone that would sell something like the coin pictured below and not note the scratch after being asked. It certainly seems as though most everyone's integrity has it's price these days.
The coins are AT, whether or not NGC chooses to slab them doesn't change their condition. IMO: These coins are no different than a brand new AT quarter, or any other baked coin out there.
As far as I'm concerned, this post almost completely nullifies the accomplishments of one forum member trouncing a specific 1922 Peace dollar that was for sale and obviously AT'd.
-Daniel
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
-Aristotle
Dum loquimur fugerit invida aetas. Carpe diem quam minimum credula postero.
I honestly see no difference in someone that would make and then SELL these coins that they know will sell for stupid money SOLELY because of the color than someone that would sell something like the coin pictured below and not note the scratch after being asked. It certainly seems as though most everyone's integrity has it's price these days.
I agree....
My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable !
This whole thing just makes me so very sad. All these coins that are being "doctored" are pieces of history that have been destroyed for financial gain. It's like using the Declaration of Independence for very expensive tinder. Well, perhaps that is a dramatic example.
Anyways, I am a student of history. These coins were living history. Now, I don't quite know what they are. Perhaps I shall herein refer to them as a "travesty."
This travesty of numismatics really upsets me. Now, I'm still very new to the hobby and study of Numismatics and perhaps I don't really have a right to say what I am saying. You guys know I'm naieve, so this shouldn't be surprising.
People do buy things solely because they are pretty. I humbly submit an early mistake of my own:
Cleaned. But I thought it was pretty at the time. It still has special meaning to me, though.
Now, maybe my feathers are so ruffled because I love IHCs. Maybe I just don't like to see people get taken. I say this is wrong and must stop.
But it does raise an argument- When does conservation go too far? When does it become doctoring? Where does it cross the line from being truly helpful to the coin to actively "improving" it?
As a young collector, I am always fascinated by really old coins in excellent states of preservation. I love getting these little glimpses into the past, seeing a coin that doesn't look much different than it did when people used it in commerce, (whether it is a circulated coin or a mint state coin) is always a special thrill for me. Original coins, it sounds like, are fast disappearing. Thank goodness low grade buffalos seem to be exempt.
I submit that coins will serve us best kept by us as best as we can for the enjoyment of future generations. If I am blessed enough to have children in the future and they show an interest in Numismatics, I want original coins to be the norm, not the exception.
<< <i>In the interest of full disclosure: There is an interesting thread running regarding these toned Indian proof cents. If you're new to the coin forum open www.pcgs.com and access their U.S.Coin Forum. The thread is titled, "Two more IHC's that have a different appearance than they did two months ago" There is a like thread running also on the NGC coin forum (www.ncgcoins.com). I will also extend a 30 day return on these coins (outside of my typical seven day) should the buyer decide to take advantage of doing so. I will refund your full payment price along with your postage including the postage is cost you to get the coin back safely to me. This way you're not out a dime should you decide the coin is not right for you. >>
Well, that's not even close to a disclosure. I thought maybe you were at least going to make an effort to save face.
Original coins will always be best, but as the wheels of time spin on and the coin doctors do their work, in time true originality will become so uncommonplace as to not be recognized as such on a variety of issues.
The exact same scenario is played out in comics (search the CGC forums for ad finitum discussions of "pressing") - all boiling down to making the whatever "look" more original and special and $$$ than it perhaps deserves to be... alas!
There are, I should note, comics which most certainly benefit from a professional restoration to something you can hold without damaging it. Most examples are very slight resto that wasn't needed, except to try and make the thing fetch a higher price as "truly untouched."
Gee whiz goose - you sure you didn't "emphasize" that scratch with Photoshop? - it's your fault (somehow), you collector, you!
While out on the porch smoking a cigarette a realization came to me.
Any person that has dipped a coin or recolored a coin has no business responding to this thread or anyother thread that deals with a coin that has been dipped or recolored. To do so, respond, is a very hipocritical stance by the given person. I have done both so as of now I am out of here when doctored or dipped coins are mentioned..
Let collectors collect what they want and suffer the circumstances at some future date. Suffer they will.
Original surfaces rule in this hobby. Always has and always will when you sell you coins.
Disclosure.... ah, yes.... it all depends on how it is presented.
I attended a local coin auction this past week. In it, was a lot described as a key date 1932-D washington quarter, in AG condition. Problem is, upon inspection, the D was a shaved, added D, with a very apparent shelf around the supposed mintmark. Others looked at it and agreed. The auctioneer was notified about the authenticity; when it came time to sell it, to their credit, mentioned that the authenticity was questioned by some, and use your own judgement. Then proceeded to sell it. The 'marginal disclosure' didn't seem to matter very much, the AG coin still sold for $50.
All depends on how it is worded and presented. But then again, some people will just buy anyways.
Hey, perhaps the sellers of these can put a catchy little jingle that would go like this...... "I don't make 'um, I just sell 'um." Seems to work for others with no objections. Hope this helps.
Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
Now that I am "out of (non-posting) jail" I am trying to play catch up here. I see that someone/a newly registered Ebay bidder has sabotaged at least one of the Ebay auctions of a Proof Indian cent.
Most of you already know how I feel about people messing with coins, so I wont repeat myself here. And, while I wouldn't knowingly offer for sale a coin which has had its appearance/color changed in that manner, it IS the right of the seller to do so. I would ask that forum members not sabotage such listings, regardless of how you might feel about them.
So if I describe and offer a sale for a 2006 Lincoln on Ebay with a starting bid of $1000, and then ship you a shiny MS-62 Lincoln Penny, has a crime been committed? At the very least, it's really s***ty, misleading advertising IMHO.
Some of this debate reminds of the sleazy Enzyte 'enhancement' commercials, along with the ones that promise you'll lose ugly belly fat by just taking a magic pill.
Wonder what will be the next hot coin color for the interns in training?
<< <i>As far as I'm concerned, this post almost completely nullifies the accomplishments of one forum member trouncing a specific 1922 Peace dollar that was for sale and obviously AT'd. >>
You must be thinking of another forum member. Obviously if NGC decided the toning on that 1922 Peace was market acceptible and put the coin in a holder, that's more than good enough for braddick.
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
<< <i>As far as I'm concerned, this post almost completely nullifies the accomplishments of one forum member trouncing a specific 1922 Peace dollar that was for sale and obviously AT'd. >>
You must be thinking of another forum member. Obviously if NGC decided the toning on that 1922 Peace was market acceptible and put the coin in a holder, that's more than good enough for braddick.
Sean Reynolds >>
No, from what I understand, NGC took that coin off the market. Now, if NGC, upon hearing both sides of the debate regarding the toned Peace dollar decided to holder it anyway, then yes, it would be good enough for me.
Putting aside the issue of should a knowlegeable seller sell a coin in a top tier plastic holder which he or she knows is AT or has had other problems fixed, all I will say now is that this is just the tip of the iceberg. Morgan Dollars which are AT exist in large quantites in both major holders, but I will admit, the most obvious ones are all in NGC plastic. Where ever there is a large chunk of change to be made easily enough, there will be those who will make that money. It is after all, just human nature. No I dont agree that people should be taken advantage of just because they are ignorant about what they are buying. I think NGC bears a large part of the greed in this matter. They cannot possibly be stupid enough to not know what is happening to all these coins. JMHO.
In an insane society, a sane person will appear to be insane.
Ken, there is a big difference between dipping a coin to get rid of crud that accumulated onto its surfaces (and get the surfaces looking like they did before the crud accumulated), and quite another to put something onto a coin's surfaces to artificially change its color.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
<< <i>Putting aside the issue of should a knowlegeable seller sell a coin in a top tier plastic holder which he or she knows is AT or has had other problems fixed, all I will say now is that this is just the tip of the iceberg. Morgan Dollars which are AT exist in large quantites in both major holders, but I will admit, the most obvious ones are all in NGC plastic. Where ever there is a large chunk of change to be made easily enough, there will be those who will make that money. It is after all, just human nature. No I dont agree that people should be taken advantage of just because they are ignorant about what they are buying. I think NGC bears a large part of the greed in this matter. They cannot possibly be stupid enough to not know what is happening to all these coins. JMHO. >>
Comments
"The grading services are not your Mommy. Learn for yourself......"
"You're not experts. You're hypocrites. Stop oohing and aahing over coins today and bashing them tomorrow. Stop changing your opinion."
So, opinions are set in stone? They are static, never changing?
If I buy a used car, and later found out that it had been repainted(recolored), should I still feel the same way about the deal? I guess if I sold it to you and had your money in my pocket, the answer would be 'Yes'.
Lincoln set Colorless Set
I wonder if the powers that be at PCGS are taking very careful notes as this thread, and the one across the street, progress' ?
Braddick- Are you saying that if NGC puts plastic around a coin you know to be AT'd than you are OK with that???
What if collector A buys this crap knowing your disclaimer than sells the coin to collector B who does not ???
Do personal ethics mean anything anymore???
Braddick- I find this hard to believe that you are taking this position. Didn't the other dealer that was outed for this at least put his head up his arse and denied denied denied--- then went on vaca???
Are any other forms of AT'ing acceptable to you if they are slabbable?
Braddick- are you going on vaca now ???
I am going to stop because I could go on and on..............
Some of the comments that I've read lead me to believe that some folks have overlooked Cohodk's earlier post: "Several of these coins that were in NGC plastic are now in PCGS plastic."
<< <i>All this makes me wonder what other doctoring we're buying that hasn't been outed yet. >>
Good question, may I suggest just go to any series where folks are going nut's over color and perhaps you have your answer.
Of course some will go nut's over color and don't care how natural looking it is, or how it got there. Some will flame me but I suspect they have a vested interest.
But, what I read on these boards no matter how many folks say they hate coins being played with..... when someone points them out they say they don't care and it's "Pretty." They really should just go buy a bag of colored marbles and play with they little friends.
What series is next? Bust halves are hot. Sure are a bunch of colorful common date, late date ones flooding the market with wild colors.
Could many of these be played with? Naw, couldn't be. Hahaha
BTW, for the ones that don't like what I got to say...... Once again...... I'm crushed.
<< <i>I'm leaving for an appointment now, but when I return will state such in each auction!
I also offer a no question (as stated in my auction terms) seven day return but will extend it on these coins. I'll state that too upon my return.
-Pat >>
Good! Otherwise its....
<< <i>Let me try to clarify this for myself.
Braddick- Are you saying that if NGC puts plastic around a coin you know to be AT'd than you are OK with that???
What if collector A buys this crap knowing your disclaimer than sells the coin to collector B who does not ???
Do personal ethics mean anything anymore???
Braddick- I find this hard to believe that you are taking this position. Didn't the other dealer that was outed for this at least put his head up his arse and denied denied denied--- then went on vaca???
Are any other forms of AT'ing acceptable to you if they are slabbable?
Braddick- are you going on vaca now ???
I am going to stop because I could go on and on..............
JRocco, I answer you on the off chance you are sincere in your questions- wanting to face an open dialogue. If I'm wrong on that and you only wanted to vent then maybe the following will assist someone else:
1- NGC has studied this issue, looking at many of these coins and have discussed it with both collectors/dealers who do not believe using MS70 is AT'ing the coin and with other collector/dealers who believe it is absolutely AT, no 'ifs' 'ands' or 'buts'. After all the arguments were spresented, NGC has decided to continue to holder these coins.
2- I'm not 100% sure what you mean by the vaca(ation) comments so I'll leave those alone.
-As I stated partially to TomB across the street, just because I don't act on each and every suggestion posed on this thread (I did add disclaimers and better warranties to each auction though) doesn't mean I turned a blind eye to them. It simply means I have decided not to act on them. Certainly you or anyone else doesn't expect me to automatically substitute your judgement for mine. True?
We disagree on this issue. It happens that NGC disagrees with you too.
If a collector decides he doesn't like these coins- as many, many here have stated they don't- the market will dictate future value(s).
peacockcoins
This is the biggest problem I have with your argument. You make your money now, and it becomes someone else's problem in the future.
What if the buyer is not knowledgeable on the issue and buys the coin because it is pretty?
Screw him.
What if the buyer down the road sells the coin to someone else who is not knowledgeable?
Screw him.
What about the destruction of numismatic heritage being performed by coin doctors who make these coins?
Screw numismatics.
Frankly, it would be more refreshing and candid to just come out and say that you are going to make and sell whatever coins you want because it is your right to do so in a capitalist society and damn the consequences. It certainly is your right.
But it's not just the expensive coins. Hoot across the street showed a very skillful doctoring job on an 1839 AU details Large Cent, which almost anyone on these boards can afford. I've seen a baked pedigreed coin which was slabbed by one of the majors, and if someone I knew didn't tell me, I don't think I would have figured it out.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
<< <i>1- NGC has studied this issue, looking at many of these coins and have discussed it with both collectors/dealers who do not believe using MS70 is AT'ing the coin and with other collector/dealers who believe it is absolutely AT, no 'ifs' 'ands' or 'buts'. After all the arguments were spresented, NGC has decided to continue to holder these coins. >>
Sorry Braddick - just for clarification on this point. Are you stating that NGC has made a policy decision to continue holdering copper that they believe or reasonably suspect to have had its color added or enhanced by MS-70 or other commercial products. Not a shock - but I am surprised this was a public or semi-private official "policy decision."
<< <i>In the interest of full disclosure: There is an interesting thread running regarding these toned Indian proof cents. If you're new to the coin forum open www.pcgs.com and access their U.S.Coin Forum. The thread is titled, "Two more IHC's that have a different appearance than they did two months ago" There is a like thread running also on the NGC coin forum (www.ncgcoins.com). I will also extend a 30 day return on these coins (outside of my typical seven day) should the buyer decide to take advantage of doing so. I will refund your full payment price along with your postage including the postage is cost you to get the coin back safely to me. This way you're not out a dime should you decide the coin is not right for you. >>
An awful lot of words that dance around the point without acknowledging that the appearance of these coins has been deliberately altered.
Why so afraid of the truth?
Members here are generally held to a higher standard than the rest of the blood sucking crapbags out there looking to screw us out of our money.
I didn't see anyone ask or Pat state....
Did you "make" these coins that you are selling Pat? (make as in "treat" them)
I honestly see no difference in someone that would make and then SELL these coins that they know will sell for stupid money SOLELY because of the color than someone that would sell something like the coin pictured below and not note the scratch after being asked. It certainly seems as though most everyone's integrity has it's price these days.
As far as I'm concerned, this post almost completely nullifies the accomplishments of one forum member trouncing a specific 1922 Peace dollar that was for sale and obviously AT'd.
-Daniel
-Aristotle
Dum loquimur fugerit invida aetas. Carpe diem quam minimum credula postero.
-Horace
I agree....
Anyways, I am a student of history. These coins were living history. Now, I don't quite know what they are. Perhaps I shall herein refer to them as a "travesty."
This travesty of numismatics really upsets me. Now, I'm still very new to the hobby and study of Numismatics and perhaps I don't really have a right to say what I am saying. You guys know I'm naieve, so this shouldn't be surprising.
People do buy things solely because they are pretty. I humbly submit an early mistake of my own:
Cleaned. But I thought it was pretty at the time. It still has special meaning to me, though.
Now, maybe my feathers are so ruffled because I love IHCs. Maybe I just don't like to see people get taken. I say this is wrong and must stop.
But it does raise an argument- When does conservation go too far? When does it become doctoring? Where does it cross the line from being truly helpful to the coin to actively "improving" it?
As a young collector, I am always fascinated by really old coins in excellent states of preservation. I love getting these little glimpses into the past, seeing a coin that doesn't look much different than it did when people used it in commerce, (whether it is a circulated coin or a mint state coin) is always a special thrill for me. Original coins, it sounds like, are fast disappearing. Thank goodness low grade buffalos seem to be exempt.
I submit that coins will serve us best kept by us as best as we can for the enjoyment of future generations. If I am blessed enough to have children in the future and they show an interest in Numismatics, I want original coins to be the norm, not the exception.
Please stop ruining coins.
Thank you for suffering my adolescent whinings.
-Amanda
I'm a YN working on a type set!
My Buffalo Nickel Website Home of the Quirky Buffaloes Collection!
Proud member of the CUFYNA
<< <i>In the interest of full disclosure: There is an interesting thread running regarding these toned Indian proof cents. If you're new to the coin forum open www.pcgs.com and access their U.S.Coin Forum. The thread is titled, "Two more IHC's that have a different appearance than they did two months ago" There is a like thread running also on the NGC coin forum (www.ncgcoins.com). I will also extend a 30 day return on these coins (outside of my typical seven day) should the buyer decide to take advantage of doing so. I will refund your full payment price along with your postage including the postage is cost you to get the coin back safely to me. This way you're not out a dime should you decide the coin is not right for you. >>
Well, that's not even close to a disclosure. I thought maybe you were at least going to make an effort to save face.
<< <i>...Please stop ruining coins.
Thank you for suffering my adolescent whinings.
-Amanda >>
Your comments are not adolescent whinings. They are a very accurate assesment of the situation with the current "AT Industry". Don't apologize.
And yes, "Lets stop ruining coins for profitTM."
The exact same scenario is played out in comics (search the CGC forums for ad finitum discussions of "pressing") - all boiling down to making the whatever "look" more original and special and $$$ than it perhaps deserves to be... alas!
There are, I should note, comics which most certainly benefit from a professional restoration to something you can hold without damaging it. Most examples are very slight resto that wasn't needed, except to try and make the thing fetch a higher price as "truly untouched."
Gee whiz goose - you sure you didn't "emphasize" that scratch with Photoshop?
Any person that has dipped a coin or recolored a coin has no business responding to this thread or anyother thread that deals with a coin that has been dipped or recolored. To do so, respond, is a very hipocritical stance by the given person. I have done both so as of now I am out of here when doctored or dipped coins are mentioned..
Let collectors collect what they want and suffer the circumstances at some future date. Suffer they will.
Original surfaces rule in this hobby. Always has and always will when you sell you coins.
Ken
I attended a local coin auction this past week. In it, was a lot described as a key date 1932-D washington quarter, in AG condition. Problem is, upon inspection, the D was a shaved, added D, with a very apparent shelf around the supposed mintmark. Others looked at it and agreed. The auctioneer was notified about the authenticity; when it came time to sell it, to their credit, mentioned that the authenticity was questioned by some, and use your own judgement. Then proceeded to sell it. The 'marginal disclosure' didn't seem to matter very much, the AG coin still sold for $50.
All depends on how it is worded and presented. But then again, some people will just buy anyways.
Your comments reflect wisdom beyond your age. Good for you.
Seems to work for others with no objections. Hope this helps.
Most of you already know how I feel about people messing with coins, so I wont repeat myself here. And, while I wouldn't knowingly offer for sale a coin which has had its appearance/color changed in that manner, it IS the right of the seller to do so. I would ask that forum members not sabotage such listings, regardless of how you might feel about them.
peacockcoins
<< <i>I agree with you Mark. Why lower yourselves? >>
In all honesty, I had assumed Mark WAS the bidder.
<< <i>I'm banking on hopes that future generations of collectors will buy into the scratch craze.
Eureka! I think you have it now
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>Now that I am "out of (non-posting) jail" >>
That is so sad, it is
Sorry Mark
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Some of this debate reminds of the sleazy Enzyte 'enhancement' commercials, along with the ones that promise you'll lose ugly belly fat by just taking a magic pill.
Wonder what will be the next hot coin color for the interns in training?
10-4,
My Instagram picturesErik
My registry sets
<< <i>As far as I'm concerned, this post almost completely nullifies the accomplishments of one forum member trouncing a specific 1922 Peace dollar that was for sale and obviously AT'd. >>
You must be thinking of another forum member. Obviously if NGC decided the toning on that 1922 Peace was market acceptible and put the coin in a holder, that's more than good enough for braddick.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
I was really asking and thanks for explaining your thoughts.
<< <i>
<< <i>As far as I'm concerned, this post almost completely nullifies the accomplishments of one forum member trouncing a specific 1922 Peace dollar that was for sale and obviously AT'd. >>
You must be thinking of another forum member. Obviously if NGC decided the toning on that 1922 Peace was market acceptible and put the coin in a holder, that's more than good enough for braddick.
Sean Reynolds >>
No, from what I understand, NGC took that coin off the market. Now, if NGC, upon hearing both sides of the debate regarding the toned Peace dollar decided to holder it anyway, then yes, it would be good enough for me.
peacockcoins
<< <i>Hey Braddick,
I was really asking and thanks for explaining your thoughts. >>
Yes, it is good to know who you are potentially dealing with, and it is plain for all to see.
Thanks for explaining your thoughts.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
peacockcoins
<< <i>Putting aside the issue of should a knowlegeable seller sell a coin in a top tier plastic holder which he or she knows is AT or has had other problems fixed, all I will say now is that this is just the tip of the iceberg. Morgan Dollars which are AT exist in large quantites in both major holders, but I will admit, the most obvious ones are all in NGC plastic. Where ever there is a large chunk of change to be made easily enough, there will be those who will make that money. It is after all, just human nature. No I dont agree that people should be taken advantage of just because they are ignorant about what they are buying. I think NGC bears a large part of the greed in this matter. They cannot possibly be stupid enough to not know what is happening to all these coins. JMHO. >>
You have numbers or stats to back up this claim?
<< <i>TTT for the early day crew. >>
lol
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
So, does anybody know who sent in the submission?
<< <i>Never mind. question answered.
So, does anybody know who sent in the submission?
i do not completely understand the chain of events myself..