Warning:Harsh words

tedssupply

Toned coins? Garbage!. To REAL coin "collectors".
Our society has swung way to far to think it is ok to be different. Ok to step outside the box. Ok to color outside the lines. Ok to always feel it is right to express yourself. To always think only about ME. To cry your rights have been violated anytime someone says a harsh word to them. To feel everything should be given to them just for the asking.
Bottom line they think it is ok to be Lazy, Rude, use no self discipline and take no reasonability for their own actions.
Having said all this I feel coin collecting has swung this way. Our sad way of life has plunged into how we view and keep the hobby.
In almost all other types of collecting, The items that that are the most desired are ORIGINAL. Who collects knifes? who wants tarnished blades? Stamps? Oh yes that yellow toned stamp looks better? Granted some Cars are worth a bit more Customized. But this is due to the extra money spent to make them this was. Coins are not made with Tarnish on them. To allow or make a coin tarnish is a adulteration to it. Yes some tarnished coins are pretty to the eye. I understand everyone has different taste. The true art is finding and keeping a coin as it was made in its original state. But as with everything Money rules. So My comments will not change those who collect tarnished coins. As they have to much time and money invested in them. Buying tarnished coins is almost as bad as "buying the holder not the coin". It is a temporary phase in the coins life and will someday end in total blackness. ( your grandchildren will love those).
I know not many will agree with me if anyone. I am sure I will be flamed. I will be told I have no clue. But this is just my opinions.

BigE

Maybe if you take freshly minted coins to the moon they will not tone due to the atmosphere-------------BigE

zenny

<< <i>But this is just my opinions. >>





Don't you have just one more opinions that you'd like to share?

Russ

You get burned buying a toner?

Russ, NCNE

tedssupply

haha Russ. No . I just dislike all the hype about them.

Curley

Boy, are you going to catch it!! You have uttered the greatest blasphemy for this board!! Hang on, it's going to be a rough ride. Take some solice in a little rhyme one of my professors taught us back in the 60's....

"In controversial matters,
my perception's rather fine,
I always see both points of view,
the one that's wrong...and mine!"

tedssupply

Like my Icon?

p8nt

That is quite an interesting point of view you've got there, Tedssupply. Just curious to find out if you think I should crack this coin out and dip it, because after all, it is not original and blast white.. right?

MikeKing

everyone knows blast white is the answer.

Leiana

You have every right to your opinion.

-Amanda

Coxe

It wasn't that long ago when toning, especially one-sided flambuoyant toning was discounted because the stinking herd wanted blast white without compromise. There still was a market for it and its afficianados. The premiums on the stuff now, I agree, are outlandish and long tern unsustainable. I think the highest quality pieces have potential, but the huge pack of Continental hoard common date dollars are going to be crushed sooner than later. Their numbers are too high, quality uneven, and not uncommon at all. Of course one could say that in geberal (not just as toners) for a lot of Morgan dollars and more modern issues that are often represented as boner toners. This is largely a fad.

dizzyfoxx

I will not 'flame' you, for the beauty of this forum is the diversity of opinions. What I will do is try and shed some light on this subject and correct some of your perceptions. First of all, you state, "The items that that are the most desired are ORIGINAL". I agree with this 100%! Although the fact of the matter is, based on the simple facts of silver, the atmosphere, and the way coins were stored over the past 50,100,150+ years, to find a coin that is purely white and without a shred of toning of any kind, is probably a dipped or cleaned coin, hence no longer original. This is especially true with coins from the 19th C.

A coin with original toning of any kind simply defines 'originality' whether it's a 'monster' or a 'dog', it's ORIGINAL.

Next, to state that "It is a temporary phase in the coins life and will someday end in total blackness. ( your grandchildren will love those)." -this is just simply a statement of ignorance. If a toned coin is now in a slab and stored in a proper environment under proper conditions, the toning process which created the toning in the first place no longer exists. To become more familiar on the science of toning, you should read and understand this and I also recommend for you to read and study this.

And finally, when you call 'toning' tarnish, you are technically using correct terminology. But remember, you can call a anything you like, but it's still a .

Therefore, REAL coin collectors collect what they like and try and educate their fellow coin collectors on misconceptions. I for one, am learning something new everyday by reading threads on this forum, and it's a joy to do so.

Shamika

<< <i>The items that that are the most desired are ORIGINAL. >>


By "original", do you mean to suggest an item that has been untampered with? Wouldn't a coin that has been striped of it's "orginal" surface via a dip in order to give it that fresh-from-the-mint-look go against your arguement?

tedssupply

Did the coin come from the mint with tarnish on it?. No matter if it toned by nature or by artificial means or by accelerated natural ways. It is not the way it came from the mint. Thus it has been adulterated.

karpman9

<< <i>Did the coin come from the mint with tarnish on it?. No matter if it toned by nature or by artificial means or by accelerated natural ways. It is not the way it came from the mint. Thus it has been adulterated. >>





I absolutely disagree.

Best regards,

50cents

tedssupply, may I ask what you collect?

ColonialCoinUnion

tedssupply, don't you watch the Antique RoadShow? Crusty old furniture with its ancient patina intact can be worth a mint, but the poor schmuck who varnished his highboy is told on national TV that he scraped off $200,000 worth of value.

Come to think of it, that wasn't you, was it?

dizzyfoxx

<< <i>haha Russ. No . I just dislike all the hype about them. >>



FYI,

There's a reason for the hype.

rec78

And just what do you do with coins that tone while you own them? Do you sell them and replace them all the time or just keep them?. I PREFER blast white myself but i can also live with toned coins.

Toned coins? Garbage!. To REAL coin "collectors"
This is just your opinion, all of us here are "REAL" coin collectors.

TOMCATTOM

Why is your icon a toned liberty???? Are you pulling our legs? Trying to get a rise? Silly boy, we all know that toners rule!!

Conder101

<< <i>Did the coin come from the mint with tarnish on it?. >>


Actually yes they do, but the layer is normally so thin that it doesn't interfer with the light and we don't see it. They also come with a layer of oil and dirt on them.

tedssupply

Nice information from all............ Keep it up. I may convert!

Shamika

<< <i><< Did the coin come from the mint with tarnish on it?. >>

Actually yes they do, but the layer is normally so thin that it doesn't interfer with the light and we don't see it. >>


Bingo!

mgoodm3

i was going to bring up the antique furniture thing too, but i see it has. i like my coins with tarnish, i don't particularly care if it's colorful.

Leiana

Since we are all comparing opinions and such... I think old coins should look old. Except I really do like nice white blast or rainbowed Morgans. (Old Coins being issues started before 1900) (Classic coins don't necessarily have to look old for me.)

-Amanda

MrKelso

<< <i>Toned coins? Garbage!. To REAL coin "collectors".
Our society has swung way to far to think it is ok to be different. Ok to step outside the box. Ok to color outside the lines. Ok to always feel it is right to express yourself. To always think only about ME. To cry your rights have been violated anytime someone says a harsh word to them. To feel everything should be given to them just for the asking.
Bottom line they think it is ok to be Lazy, Rude, use no self discipline and take no reasonability for their own actions.
Having said all this I feel coin collecting has swung this way. Our sad way of life has plunged into how we view and keep the hobby.
In almost all other types of collecting, The items that that are the most desired are ORIGINAL. Who collects knifes? who wants tarnished blades? Stamps? Oh yes that yellow toned stamp looks better? Granted some Cars are worth a bit more Customized. But this is due to the extra money spent to make them this was. Coins are not made with Tarnish on them. To allow or make a coin tarnish is a adulteration to it. Yes some tarnished coins are pretty to the eye. I understand everyone has different taste. The true art is finding and keeping a coin as it was made in its original state. But as with everything Money rules. So My comments will not change those who collect tarnished coins. As they have to much time and money invested in them. Buying tarnished coins is almost as bad as "buying the holder not the coin". It is a temporary phase in the coins life and will someday end in total blackness. ( your grandchildren will love those).
I know not many will agree with me if anyone. I am sure I will be flamed. I will be told I have no clue. But this is just my opinions. >>



Now tell me how you really feel. I accept your opinion, I don't agree with it but i do accept it.

RoelSports

Nice Post! It's refreshing to hear strong and original thoughts...scr

DHeath

Ah yes, but no more 1966. Lets splurge! Bring us some fresh wine! The freshest you've got - this year! No more of this old stuff. - Steve Martin

sweetwilliet

Everyone here knows that deep mirrored morgans rule, but I'm ok with people not collecting them (otherwise I couldn't afford them). I agree with some of your political statement about not taking responsibility for one's actions, instant gratification, etc..... but think it's stretching it a bit to try and apply to numismatics. After all, a natural toner or a baked toner never hurt anybody, unless someone lost the bank on it, and that is their decision to make.

coinpictures

So how would you deal with copper? It naturally darkens over time. Anyone who collects half cents, large cents, colonials, etc. is going to find virtually nothing BUT toned, hence in your view "adulterated" coins, out there to purchase. Should BNs and RBs be dipped, scrubbed, etc. to get them back to a bright cherry red? There is nothing fuglier in the world than cleaned copper coins. You simply can't dip them the way you can silver. The coins don't look natural.

Myqqy

Buying tarnished coins is almost as bad as "buying the holder not the coin". It is a temporary phase in the coins life and will someday end in total blackness

That's a stupid statement.

kiyote

Just one more reason I'm really diggin' platinum proof eagles...

coinkat

terrific SLQ... WOW... I would have suggested a higher grade... very nice

tincup

tedssupply, baking soda will take care of those lousy stains! Make them nice and shiney.

I'm a believer in originality.... which to me can original skin, original light toning, or original white. Now if I could always tell the difference between those and the ones that have been tampered with!

SafeCracker

I think there is merrit to this point of view. But I also feel that if my coin is 100, 200 years old, or older, a bit of toning is expected. OK, blazing rainbow colors is really cool. I've got new, recent coins with toning that I'm going to keep until I have to give them to the grand kids. To sum it all up for me...The best coins are the ones you like.

Safe Cracker

Fletcher

I don't like any color or toning at all. However, from an artistic point of view, I understand certain people's attraction to color

millennium

Sheesh......If you were to find a coin that has been just lying on a shelf for 100 years and had been placed there when it was fresh and clean, it would have toned or tarnished...just the natural process......

BAJJERFAN

Me likes tarnish!!



Me likes half tarnish, half blast white!!



Me likes all blast white too!!

Coinosaurus

Sorry. Beautifully toned & unmessed with coins have always been highly prized. Always have been, always will. The current toning rage may die down, yes, but the underlying aesthetic will NOT.

IrishMike

There is nothing wrong with a healthy bit of skepticism with the emphasis on healthy. The consensus is that Morgans can tone from long term storage in their original bags, Indian cents from tissue paper, etc. Whether some of these get helped along or not is a seperate question which has been debated many times here and elsewhere.

I don't think it has to be an either or, I can appreciate the beauty of toned coins, as well as those that appear to have original skin or those that improved via a dipping to slow down or correct some damage that would ruin the coin. I guess its become like politics you have to be either or, no longer any room for well thought out disagreement.

JZrarities

Way to Go DIZZY!

ANACONDA

I like orginal coins. I like gorgeously toned original coins better.

Boom

I can go either way just as long as it's pleasing to the eye and has an aura of originality.

My personal favorites are old coins adorned with total unbroken, thick frosty luster.

They look sugary and you can definitely tell that they have not been dipped.

I also like naturally toned beauties. There is a fine line between just right and too much.

As in life sometimes less is best. (JMHO, of course)

ziggy29

Personally, I agree that the "mania" has gone too far and that some attractive toners are going for ridiculous multiples these days. (My solution? I don't buy them at such multiples.) And I will also go further; I'll say that the current moon money being paid for toners is leading to a lot of coin doctors ruining perfectly good coins with artificial toning.

That's unfortunately nothing new; when "blast white" was in, the doctors were dipping pretty toners. The pendulum swings both ways where this type of mania is concerned.

Having said all that, I can't see how a 150-year-old dipped, "white" coin is more desirable and attractive than a nice, original toner with strong eye appeal. I believe that coins, like people should look appropriate for their age. Just as it would look odd to see an 80-year-old woman in a mini-skirt, so too does a blast white Bust half. And a wildly toned 2004 coin, for that matter.

I think some disagreement is good here because there are both kinds of coins out there, and all need a good home. So it's a good thing preferences differ; that way there are the right coins out there for everyone.

mozeppa

hard to get a blast white lincoln...unless its a steel cent.

lonelyp

Never seen any toners on the coin vault.

except maybe in a 5 or 10 lb bag deal.

roadrunner

When one sees stark white Bust dollars or bust halves that look like Franklin mint products at first glance, that's when it has gone too far.

For those that were not around in the pre-slab era, it was the norm to discount dipped coins, esp pre-1916 ones. They just didn't look right. It was very common to hear collectors and dealers to say, no thanks, it's been dipped. NGC and NCS had a lot to say about promoting this idea. Then toss in the 1990's new idea of designationg CAMs and DCAMs on all proofs, to invite mass dipping.
I don't believe for one minute that collectors initiated the shift to 10 points of MS grading, nor did they push to have FSB's/FH or conserved coins. These were marketing pushes initiated by dealers to make money. It has worked. The sheeple follow.

Cycles come and go.

roadrunner

ms70

ricko

My preference is for clean, undoctored coins. I do not care for toning - that, of course, is my personal preference. I normally replace toned coins with 'bettter' specimens when available ('better' being suited to my perception). My first objective is to obtain the coin of my choice - then, if possible, improve the quality. I do enjoy the premium realized when I sell a 'toned' coin.. helps me to step up in value to the improved coin of choice. Cheers, RickO

roadrunner

Besides unaltered furniture, I also hear that uncleaned paintings are also highly sought after. You usually don't see those baking sodaed or doused with Mr. Clean to bring up the colors.

Also add many forms of collectibles where cleaned surfaces are a no-no:

paper money
antique cars - orig faded paint far more desireable that repainted
junk on all orig specimens.
firearms
brass
duck decoys
toys
dolls
golf clubs
books
manuscripts

no doubt others could add dozens more.

the list of hobbies where orig surfaces win out over scrubbed surfaces is rather high. Coins just might be one of the few where dipping has become a mania. But also understand that in 18th and 19th century US coinage dipping is not tolerated as well as it is for 20th century coinage.

roadrunner

cheezhed

I swing both ways.