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NFL HOF'ers to come

FavreFan1971FavreFan1971 Posts: 3,103 ✭✭✭
in Trading Cards & Memorabilia Forum
I have been looking at buying the rookie cards of possible NFL HOF'ers. I was going through the list of top 50 All-Time at www.pro-footballreference.com and found some interesting issues.

Vinny Testeverde

Among the league's all-time top 50
Pass attempts: 6
Completions: 6
Passing yards: 6
Passing TDs: 8

LORD GOD NO!!!! He can't get in right? He had two good years. The guy is just old

Dave Krieg - He had a better career than Vinny but I still say no.

Among the league's all-time top 50
Pass attempts: 10
Completions: 10
Passing yards: 11
Passing TDs: 9

Boomer Esiasson - He a better shot than vinny or krieg but a no from me.

Among the league's all-time top 50
Pass attempts: 11
Completions: 11
Passing yards: 12
Passing TDs: 12

Drew Beldsoe - This is a yes from me after about 7-10 years of waiting

Among the league's all-time top 50
Pass attempts: 5
Completions: 5
Passing yards: 7
Passing TDs: 13t

Then at RB there is Tkik(good shot), Priest (?), Thurman (should be in), Watters, E. George (NO!),

Jsut a coulple of thoughts. What do you all think?


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Comments

  • ToppsCo1lectorToppsCo1lector Posts: 2,633
    Who's Tkik?
    Collecting;
    Mark Mulder rookies
    Chipper Jones rookies
    Orlando Cabrera rookies
    Lawrence Taylor
    Sam Huff
    Lavar Arrington
    NY Giants
    NY Yankees
    NJ Nets
    NJ Devils
    1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards

    Looking for Topps rookies as well.

    References:
    GregM13
    VintageJeff
  • ldfergldferg Posts: 6,745 ✭✭✭
    eddie george will be there...and not just because i'm from tn.


    Thanks,

    David (LD_Ferg)



    1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
  • onlyanumberonlyanumber Posts: 2,433
    Testaverde has the numbers because he played for so long. Remember this is the same guy that is color blind and threw interception after interception because of the Buccaneers old jersey colors (or so was claimed). He never won a championship. I don't think he went to too many pro bowls. He is the 90's version of Dave Krieg. Krieg put up consistent numbers in the 80's but I don't thnik anyone out there would consider Krieg a HOFer. Boomer I don't think has a chance either, but he did make it to a Super Bowl, which might help his cause. Bledsoe has the best chance of the QBs you mentioned.

    As for RBs, Thomas should be in--feature back on 4 Super Bowls and a consistent pro bowler. Tiki has a good chance if he stays healthy. Holmes strikes me as another Terrell Davis. Watters has no chance and George just strikes me as borderline.

    The name I'm surprised you omitted is Curtis Martin. Martin has incredible numbers, but how many people really consider him a HOFer?
    Next MONTH? So he's saying that if he wins, the best-case scenario is that he'll be paying for it two weeks after the auction ends?

    Forget blocking him; find out where he lives and go punch him in the nuts. --WalterSobchak 9/12/12



    image


    Looking for Al Hrabosky and any OPC Dave Campbells (the ESPN guy)
  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I have been looking at buying the rookie cards of possible NFL HOF'ers. I was going through the list of top 50 All-Time at www.pro-footballreference.com and found some interesting issues.

    Vinny Testeverde

    Among the league's all-time top 50
    Pass attempts: 6
    Completions: 6
    Passing yards: 6
    Passing TDs: 8

    LORD GOD NO!!!! He can't get in right? He had two good years. The guy is just old

    Dave Krieg - He had a better career than Vinny but I still say no.

    Among the league's all-time top 50
    Pass attempts: 10
    Completions: 10
    Passing yards: 11
    Passing TDs: 9

    Boomer Esiasson - He a better shot than vinny or krieg but a no from me.

    Among the league's all-time top 50
    Pass attempts: 11
    Completions: 11
    Passing yards: 12
    Passing TDs: 12

    Drew Beldsoe - This is a yes from me after about 7-10 years of waiting

    Among the league's all-time top 50
    Pass attempts: 5
    Completions: 5
    Passing yards: 7
    Passing TDs: 13t

    Then at RB there is Tkik(good shot), Priest (?), Thurman (should be in), Watters, E. George (NO!),

    Jsut a coulple of thoughts. What do you all think? >>



    Vinny will never get in, regardless of his high yardage totals. Same for Dave Krieg, he's been eligible for years and doesnt even get a mention. Rightfully so, his numbers were gained through years of mediocre play, not dominanace.

    Boomer also never gets a sniff, but I think he had a much better career than Vinny or Krieg, and should at least get an honorable mention.

    Jury is still out on Bledsoe..He's got the yards, he played in a Super Bowl...He needs a Championship to solidify him. If he can finish with over 50,000 and a Super Bowl ring he will get in.

    Tiki Barber is probably too old to do what he would need to do to become a HOF RB. He had too many soft years in his early career. He will end up with 10,000+ yards, but that doesnt get you to the HOF anymore. Same for Watters and George..Both have the yards, but aren't likley to ever be considered HOF material.

    If Priest could have stayed healthy he might have a chance. If he ever comes back, he wont be the same dominant guy he would need to be to gain HOF status.

    Thurman Thomas should get in this year. Weak class and he was a finalist in his first try last year in a very tough class.

    Some you forgot??

    QBs--Favre and Peyton..Easy choices...

    RB--Emmitt Smith and Marshall Faulk are first ballot guys. Curtis Martin and Jerome Bettis will likely get in as well...
    Edgerrin James, Shaun Alexander and LaDanian Tomlinson are all on pace to be HOFers, but none of the 3 are there just yet...

    Dont for get the WRs...Going to be a tough position to get in down the road. Already a backlog with Michael Irvin, Art Monk and Andre Reed all deserving to get in...Jerry Rice and Marvin Harrison are locks..Cric Carter and Tim Brown will probably get in as well...Others who might get a sniff in the future are Jimmy Smith and Isaac Bruce...Randy Moss, T.O. and Torry Holt are all on a HOF path but still needs some years and/or rings under their belts..

    This is all just my opinion of course and i am not a HOF voter..lol

    Jason

    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • ldfergldferg Posts: 6,745 ✭✭✭
    i think george will be in: george history as well as curtis martin. i'd like to see thurman thomas in.


    Thanks,

    David (LD_Ferg)



    1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
  • larryallen73larryallen73 Posts: 6,067 ✭✭✭
    I have the market cornered on Larry Allen rookies! Several of us from Sonoma State are planning a trip to Canton when he is inducted.
  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭


    << <i>i think george will be in: george history as well as curtis martin. i'd like to see thurman thomas in. >>



    I know his history well. What puts him in over say Ricky Watters or Corey Dillon?

    His REAL numbers?
    --4 Pro Bowls
    --ONE first team All-Pro selection
    --3.6 career rushing average
    --Only 68 TD's
    --ZERO Super Bowl rings

    Sorry, but that's not going to get him in...

    Larry Allen is a 100% lock. I need one of his 1994 Playoff RCs in MINT condition..Got any extras???
    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • ldfergldferg Posts: 6,745 ✭✭✭
    jasp, i do agree the goose egg on the super bowl rings is a thorn for george, but i think he gets there. i like watters as well.


    Thanks,

    David (LD_Ferg)



    1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,607 ✭✭✭✭
    Jason,

    I think you're dismissing Tiki's HOF chances too quickly. There are a LOT of HOF'ers who had soft years early in their careers. Roger Staubach and Steve Young, two first ballot guys, come to mind immediately. Tiki's last 4 years averaged together have been dominant (your favorite word image And, correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't Tiki's 2005 yards from the scrimmage the second most ever???

    | 1997 nyg | 12 | 136 511 3.8 3 | 34 299 8.8 1 |
    | 1998 nyg | 16 | 52 166 3.2 0 | 42 348 8.3 3 |
    | 1999 nyg | 16 | 62 258 4.2 0 | 66 609 9.2 2 |
    | 2000 nyg | 16 | 213 1006 4.7 8 | 70 719 10.3 1 |
    | 2001 nyg | 14 | 166 865 5.2 4 | 72 577 8.0 0 |
    | 2002 nyg | 16 | 303 1386 4.6 11 | 69 597 8.7 0 |
    | 2003 nyg | 16 | 278 1216 4.4 2 | 69 461 6.7 1 |
    | 2004 nyg | 16 | 322 1518 4.7 13 | 52 578 11.1 2 |
    | 2005 nyg | 16 | 357 1860 5.2 9 | 54 530 9.8 2 |
    +----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
    | TOTAL | 138 | 1889 8786 4.7 50 | 528 4718 8.9 12

    Give me 3,000 more yards from Tiki, which I think is very realistic, and he's a lock. If the G-Men make it back to the Super Bowl with Tiki (please, please, please!!!), all the better for his chances.

    Andy
    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,607 ✭✭✭✭
    The stat that would keep me from voting for Eddie George is his measly 3.6 yards per carry career average. It's terrible. He only averaged more that 4 yards per carry twice, and both times it was 4.1. He racked up big yards because they gave him the ball all the time, but I don't see him as a truly dominant back - or HOF worthy.

    | 1996 hou | 16 | 335 1368 4.1 8 | 23 182 7.9 0 |
    | 1997 ten | 16 | 357 1399 3.9 6 | 7 44 6.3 1 |
    | 1998 ten | 16 | 348 1294 3.7 5 | 37 310 8.4 1 |
    | 1999 ten | 16 | 320 1304 4.1 9 | 47 458 9.7 4 |
    | 2000 ten | 16 | 403 1509 3.7 14 | 50 453 9.1 2 |
    | 2001 ten | 16 | 315 939 3.0 5 | 37 279 7.5 0 |
    | 2002 ten | 16 | 343 1165 3.4 12 | 36 255 7.1 2 |
    | 2003 ten | 16 | 312 1031 3.3 5 | 22 163 7.4 0 |
    | 2004 dal | 14 | 132 432 3.3 4 | 9 83 9.2 0 |
    +----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
    | TOTAL | 142 | 2865 10441 3.6 68 | 268 2227 8.3 10 |
    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
  • stownstown Posts: 11,321 ✭✭✭
    It's extremely tough to get into the HOF.

    While I would love to see Eddie get in, he's a long shot. Never really got too much fan fare and it hurt being in his "prime" during the Houston / Memphis transition.

    Curtis Martin is a shoe in. While he may not be first ballot, he will get in eventually without a doubt.

    Thurman will get in without a doubt.

    Bettis, because of the ring, most likely will get in.

    Faulk, maybe...
    So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,607 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Bettis, because of the ring, most likely will get in. >>



    Bettis is 5th all time in rushing yards. He was a first ballot guy even without a ring.
    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
  • ToppsCo1lectorToppsCo1lector Posts: 2,633
    My list of future HOF'ers:
    QBs-
    Peyton Manning
    Tom Brady

    RBs-
    Marshall Faulk
    Jerome Bettis
    Edgerrin James
    Curtis Martin

    WRs-
    Jerry Rice
    Chris Carter
    Tim Brown
    Marvin Harrison
    Randy Moss

    TEs-
    Shannon Sharpe
    Tony Gonzalez

    Olinemen-
    Larry Allen


    DEs/DTs-
    Bruce Smith
    Micheal Strahan


    DB/Safeties-
    Ron Woodson
    Deion Sanders
    Jon Lynch(I like him, not sure if I'm just biased)
    Rhonde Barber(VERY underrated, but is well on his way)


    Btw, I'm a Giants fan and I don't think right now Tiki can be considered for it. I mean, if he gets another 3 solid 1K plus seasons then his name should get brought into the conversation. A great career, especially since for his first few seasons(basically up until 00) he didn't get the carries that he should've. But he's getting closer to the HOF talk. Hopefully with the weapons this NYGs team has it'll prolong his career a bit. Let's not forget Edge already has better numbers(rushing, not recieving) and is younger; albeit with more injuries that more than likely will shorten his career a little bit. But Edge will break the 10K rushing mark during this season; and also has fallen into another pretty sweet offense in Az.
    Collecting;
    Mark Mulder rookies
    Chipper Jones rookies
    Orlando Cabrera rookies
    Lawrence Taylor
    Sam Huff
    Lavar Arrington
    NY Giants
    NY Yankees
    NJ Nets
    NJ Devils
    1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards

    Looking for Topps rookies as well.

    References:
    GregM13
    VintageJeff
  • ToppsCo1lectorToppsCo1lector Posts: 2,633


    << <i>

    << <i>Bettis, because of the ring, most likely will get in. >>



    Bettis is 5th all time in rushing yards. He was a first ballot guy even without a ring. >>



    True that.
    Collecting;
    Mark Mulder rookies
    Chipper Jones rookies
    Orlando Cabrera rookies
    Lawrence Taylor
    Sam Huff
    Lavar Arrington
    NY Giants
    NY Yankees
    NJ Nets
    NJ Devils
    1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards

    Looking for Topps rookies as well.

    References:
    GregM13
    VintageJeff
  • ldfergldferg Posts: 6,745 ✭✭✭
    i'm pulling for "edge" to knock'em dead in arizona... would like to see them have a good year.


    Thanks,

    David (LD_Ferg)



    1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
  • ToppsCo1lectorToppsCo1lector Posts: 2,633


    << <i>Jason,

    I think you're dismissing Tiki's HOF chances too quickly. There are a LOT of HOF'ers who had soft years early in their careers. Roger Staubach and Steve Young, two first ballot guys, come to mind immediately. Tiki's last 4 years averaged together have been dominant (your favorite word image And, correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't Tiki's 2005 yards from the scrimmage the second most ever???

    | 1997 nyg | 12 | 136 511 3.8 3 | 34 299 8.8 1 |
    | 1998 nyg | 16 | 52 166 3.2 0 | 42 348 8.3 3 |
    | 1999 nyg | 16 | 62 258 4.2 0 | 66 609 9.2 2 |
    | 2000 nyg | 16 | 213 1006 4.7 8 | 70 719 10.3 1 |
    | 2001 nyg | 14 | 166 865 5.2 4 | 72 577 8.0 0 |
    | 2002 nyg | 16 | 303 1386 4.6 11 | 69 597 8.7 0 |
    | 2003 nyg | 16 | 278 1216 4.4 2 | 69 461 6.7 1 |
    | 2004 nyg | 16 | 322 1518 4.7 13 | 52 578 11.1 2 |
    | 2005 nyg | 16 | 357 1860 5.2 9 | 54 530 9.8 2 |
    +----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
    | TOTAL | 138 | 1889 8786 4.7 50 | 528 4718 8.9 12

    Give me 3,000 more yards from Tiki, which I think is very realistic, and he's a lock. If the G-Men make it back to the Super Bowl with Tiki (please, please, please!!!), all the better for his chances.

    Andy >>



    Fellow G-men fan? Awesome! I think when Tiki gets into the 15K club(receiving and rushing combined) his HOF talk will be much umm talked about.
    Collecting;
    Mark Mulder rookies
    Chipper Jones rookies
    Orlando Cabrera rookies
    Lawrence Taylor
    Sam Huff
    Lavar Arrington
    NY Giants
    NY Yankees
    NJ Nets
    NJ Devils
    1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards

    Looking for Topps rookies as well.

    References:
    GregM13
    VintageJeff
  • ToppsCo1lectorToppsCo1lector Posts: 2,633


    << <i>i'm pulling for "edge" to knock'em dead in arizona... would like to see them have a good year. >>



    I'm a HUGE fan of Edge. I think he has a good 4-5 more seasons of solid 1300+ in him.
    Collecting;
    Mark Mulder rookies
    Chipper Jones rookies
    Orlando Cabrera rookies
    Lawrence Taylor
    Sam Huff
    Lavar Arrington
    NY Giants
    NY Yankees
    NJ Nets
    NJ Devils
    1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards

    Looking for Topps rookies as well.

    References:
    GregM13
    VintageJeff
  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭
    I agree, if Tiki can have 3 more 1,000+ yard seasons and/or get aq Super Bowl ring, he will have a very good shot...Those are 2 VERY big ifs though. This is season #10 for Tiki and that is usually when guys starting falling off....Not impossible, but far from a lock...I like Tiki and hope he can go 3 more years...

    ToppsCo1lector, your lists are pretty good/close. Here's a few other names to consider:

    QB--Favre...Hes first ballot all the way...
    -----Brady? If he retired today or turned into Kurt Warner he would not be a HOFer. DEFINITELY headed that way, and all he needs to do is stay healthy and produce descent stats for about 4-5 more years

    RB--Thurman Thomas is going in this year, bank on it...
    -----Can't forget Emmitt, he will get 100% of the votes...

    WR--Moss isn't there just yet...A few others that I mentioned before are on the path, but havent gotten there yet...

    OL--Willie Roaf anyone???He is a lock..
    Bruce Matthews probably goes in this year..
    Randall McDaniel is a solid candidate..
    Dermontti Dawson deserves the call too...He was as dominant a Center as Ive ever seen play...
    Don't forget about Jonathan Ogden, first team All-Pro 5 times at LT..

    DL--I think John Randle has a very good shot. 7 Pro Bowls, 6 times he was a first team all-pro..That means he was THE BEST at his position, not top 4 or 5 that make the pro bowl every year.
    Claude Humphrey is my sleeper...He made the final 10 last year in a very tough class...This is his last chance of getting in as a modern candidate. I think he will get the call this year.

    LB--You forgot LBs and there are a few HOF candidates there...
    #1-Derrick Thomas...He will get in eventually..
    Junior Seau is a lock.
    Ray Lewis is a lock.
    Derrick Brooks deserves to go in as well.

    DBs--Aeneas Williams is a VERY under-rated CB. He was the second best (behind Deion) cover corner in the league for years..
    Champ Bailey has 6 Pro Bowls in his first 7 seasons..He could be a strong candidate if he can keep playing on that level...

    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • ToppsCo1lectorToppsCo1lector Posts: 2,633
    Yeah, I forgot about Favre but he's beyond a lock. They've already made a bust for him in Canton. Same with Emmitt.


    Good call on D. Dawson, I was going to put Mathews on my list but I wasn't sure if he'd already gotten in. Good call on Ogden, I got the chance to meet him around christmas time maybe 2-3 years back(I was living in Owing Mills at the time, there training facility was literally about a mile from my house, on the same road) and he just happened to be walking to his car at the local mall; when I was pulling in. A neighbor of mine was with us(carpooling) and him and I were like....That's gotta be....We talked with him for a good 15 minutes, and didn't get autographs or anyhting but got to chill with him for a little bit walking around the mall. HUGE man. I shook his hand and literally his hand went past my wrist and just dwarfed me. Great guy.

    Good calls on the LBs. Jesse Armsteads name should make it's way into HOF discussion, not as many tackles as he should have but his forced fumbles, INTs, and sacks make up for that imo.
    Collecting;
    Mark Mulder rookies
    Chipper Jones rookies
    Orlando Cabrera rookies
    Lawrence Taylor
    Sam Huff
    Lavar Arrington
    NY Giants
    NY Yankees
    NJ Nets
    NJ Devils
    1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards

    Looking for Topps rookies as well.

    References:
    GregM13
    VintageJeff
  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,607 ✭✭✭✭
    If Tom Brady retired today, there's no doubt in my mind he'd end up in Canton. The quarterbacks who have won 3 Super Bowls include Terry Bradshaw, Joe Montana, Troy Aikman - 3 first ballot HOF'ers - and Tom Brady. That's it. The Football Hall of Fame, more so than any other professional sports Hall of Fame IMO, is about winning, ESPECIALLY Super Bowls (how else could you possibly explain Lynn Swann getting in???). That said, Brady would get in. Retire today, get in after a few tries. Play a full career - even without another ring - first ballot guy.
    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭
    Armstead will get a look.

    I think the other LBs I listed as well as Randy Gradishar and Kevin Greene will get closer than Armstead though. He had 5 Pro Bowls and one first team all-pro selection. Warrants a look, but the line may be way too long at LB for him to ever make it in...

    You look at the old timers at LB that have been over looked and the list is staggering...

    Chris Hanburger
    Maxie Baughan
    Les Richter
    Andy Russell
    Chuck Howley
    And until last year, Harry Carson...

    Its one of the toughest positions to get votes...It took Sam Huff 8 tries to get elected...
    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • SKINSFANSKINSFAN Posts: 1,032
    for db,s i hate to even mention this guy but i think you have to say neon sanders
  • ROCKDJRWROCKDJRW Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭
    As a Bears fan Richard Dent should be in!
    Collect Ozzie Guillen Cards
    Unique Chicago Cards
    Wrestling Cards
  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭


    << <i>If Tom Brady retired today, there's no doubt in my mind he'd end up in Canton. The quarterbacks who have won 3 Super Bowls include Terry Bradshaw, Joe Montana, Troy Aikman - 3 first ballot HOF'ers - and Tom Brady. That's it. The Football Hall of Fame, more so than any other professional sports Hall of Fame IMO, is about winning, ESPECIALLY Super Bowls (how else could you possibly explain Lynn Swann getting in???). That said, Brady would get in. Retire today, get in after a few tries. Play a full career - even without another ring - first ballot guy. >>



    With less than 20,000 career yards in this era I don't think he'd get in. All 3 guys you mentioned had long distinguished careers to go with their Super Bowl rings..

    He'll need 30,000 to get to get in, and right now he's at 18k..So 3-4 more years before I could give him the definitive nod.

    We've discussed Swann in length before. He's not in because of stats or rings..He's there because of the style in which he got the job done. I'm going to plagiarize from an article I recently read which pretty much echos my sentiments on Swann:

    "As for Swann, his statistics are misleading. Swann (and Gale Sayers) are the closest thing the NFL has had to a Michael Jordan in terms of the physical grace with which he moved on the field, the moves he made, the way his body flowed. I think Noll and Bradshaw had enough offensive weapons that they didn't want to risk an injury to Swann by going to him too often; this is one reason why Swann didn't have eye popping numbers.""




    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • ToppsCo1lectorToppsCo1lector Posts: 2,633


    << <i>Armstead will get a look.

    I think the other LBs I listed as well as Randy Gradishar and Kevin Greene will get closer than Armstead though. He had 5 Pro Bowls and one first team all-pro selection. Warrants a look, but the line may be way too long at LB for him to ever make it in...

    You look at the old timers at LB that have been over looked and the list is staggering...

    Chris Hanburger
    Maxie Baughan
    Les Richter
    Andy Russell
    Chuck Howley
    And until last year, Harry Carson...

    Its one of the toughest positions to get votes...It took Sam Huff 8 tries to get elected... >>



    I never knew it took Huff so long to get in, imo he's a player that revolutionized the position. Harry Carson should've been in a lot sooner, as he rightfully earned it.


    About Brady, he's got the rings. He's only 28; so he's the same age that Kurt Warner was when he was in the AFL(don't discount it, without it he would've never learned the quick release and timing routes that succeded in St. Louis). He got 4K yards last season, and I think he's going to go down as the Joe Montana of this generation of QBs. Taking that a little far? I don't think so, I'm a ND fan and he deserves that type of consideration. Simply, he hasn't ever had the offensive weapons and isn't a strong-armed guy but he gets it there and he wins. The last is the most important, he wins. Now, with Charlie Weis gone I don't know if that offense will be as so QB friendly(stats wise) but I think he'll easily finish with 30K yards thrown. Maybe another Super Bowl? Who knows. That's beyond anyones realm of speculation. Honestly, if he went down with a career ending injury, or(knock on wood) he is injured/killed somehow I would vote for him to go in as his career stands.
    Collecting;
    Mark Mulder rookies
    Chipper Jones rookies
    Orlando Cabrera rookies
    Lawrence Taylor
    Sam Huff
    Lavar Arrington
    NY Giants
    NY Yankees
    NJ Nets
    NJ Devils
    1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards

    Looking for Topps rookies as well.

    References:
    GregM13
    VintageJeff
  • yakbighamyakbigham Posts: 171
    It should not always be about the numbers. The fact that most people think Jerome Bettis is Lock HOF and Eddie George boarder line HOF makes me Sick . Bettis was Avg at best his entire career and this while playing behind some of the best Lines in football year in year out with the Rams and Steelers, hes a total product of the system. As far as Eddie , I put in him in just for the 6 Great seasons he gave. He left everything on the field played like a true warrior . Reason his career ended so early is the fact that he played thru injuries that slowed him down later in his career, much like Curtis Martin ( another HOF) .
    As far as Vinny , if he gets in my HOF set is OFFFICIALLY up FOR SALE !!!
    And for the people who think I'm a Homer for Eddie , RAIDER FAN and just a football fan period.

  • ldfergldferg Posts: 6,745 ✭✭✭
    yak,

    ...He left everything on the field played like a true warrior...

    this is my thought on eddie as well. he may not have had the numbers but he had the drive and it showed... imo, that should be credible for something, hopefully hall material.


    Thanks,

    David (LD_Ferg)



    1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
  • ToppsCo1lectorToppsCo1lector Posts: 2,633


    << <i>It should not always be about the numbers. The fact that most people think Jerome Bettis is Lock HOF and Eddie George boarder line HOF makes me Sick . Bettis was Avg at best his entire career and this while playing behind some of the best Lines in football year in year out with the Rams and Steelers, hes a total product of the system. As far as Eddie , I put in him in just for the 6 Great seasons he gave. He left everything on the field played like a true warrior . Reason his career ended so early is the fact that he played thru injuries that slowed him down later in his career, much like Curtis Martin ( another HOF) .
    As far as Vinny , if he gets in my HOF set is OFFFICIALLY up FOR SALE !!!
    And for the people who think I'm a Homer for Eddie , RAIDER FAN and just a football fan period. >>



    Well, lets not forget that for a long time George also ran behind a very good line as well. Curtis Martin has never really been slowed down(this past season, yes but that was b/c of injuries and age has begun to set in the downward slide of his career). I'm a HUGE fan of Eddies, and I don't agree that he deserves HOF discussion. But can name 5 other guys who came in the year before, same year, or year after that I'd take before him.
    Collecting;
    Mark Mulder rookies
    Chipper Jones rookies
    Orlando Cabrera rookies
    Lawrence Taylor
    Sam Huff
    Lavar Arrington
    NY Giants
    NY Yankees
    NJ Nets
    NJ Devils
    1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards

    Looking for Topps rookies as well.

    References:
    GregM13
    VintageJeff
  • ldfergldferg Posts: 6,745 ✭✭✭
    martin is a lock. 14k rushing yards, almost 18k all-purpose, 4th leading rusher all-time, 100 tds.


    Thanks,

    David (LD_Ferg)



    1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,607 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>We've discussed Swann in length before. He's not in because of stats or rings..He's there because of the style in which he got the job done. I'm going to plagiarize from an article I recently read which pretty much echos my sentiments on Swann:

    "As for Swann, his statistics are misleading. Swann (and Gale Sayers) are the closest thing the NFL has had to a Michael Jordan in terms of the physical grace with which he moved on the field, the moves he made, the way his body flowed. I think Noll and Bradshaw had enough offensive weapons that they didn't want to risk an injury to Swann by going to him too often; this is one reason why Swann didn't have eye popping numbers." >>



    Did Lynn Swann write that article by any chance??? LOL. The guy was insanely overrated. They always make it seem like he was soooo good, that they didn't use him, as if that makes any sense. I just wonder what deal he made with the devil to gain the acclaim he so does not deserve.
    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
  • SkinpinchSkinpinch Posts: 1,531
    Pittsburgh's yearly rank in pass attempts during Swann's full time years...

    24,28,16,22,9,14,23,17

    To be fair, his REC, YDS, and TD's are all suppressed as a result. We know all too well how guys are over-hyped/over rated based on a handful of post season games, and Swann is no different. He was a special receiver, but he just played in the wrong era for the wrong team(wrong team to highlight his ability that is). He also had a relatively short career.

    He also had to split the ball with John Stallworth for a lot of his years. It made for a heckuva team, but it didn't allow him to shine as bright.

    The era was a huge factor. First he had some seasons when the schedule was two games shorter. Second, passing wasn't as easy to accompish in that era. Take 1977 for instance, Swann had 789 yards good for fourth in the league. He had Stallworth on his own team with 784 yards. If somebody today looks at 789 yds, they simply laugh. But when you consider all the above factors, it tells a different story.

    When you put his yds into context, it looks a little more impressive. He is a bit overrated because of those brilliant catches in the Super Bowl, but he was outstading.



  • zef204zef204 Posts: 4,742 ✭✭

    I think there have been several locks mentioned. I don't think eGeorge is one of them. I still dislike him when he torched my Illini at home, but then again what good Big10 college player didn't lite up illinois.


    jasp, I know we have had this debate before, but I don't think Ray Lewis is a lock first ballot guy. While "dominant," his charcter will keep him out the first go round and maybe longer.

    Vinnie, Kreig and Boomer are no shots.
    I don't think Deon will get in.
    Not sure about Cris Carter.
    Lynch is possible and both R and T Barber need a few more real solid years to get ther.

    Payton, Brady, Harrison, Moss have good chances, but as jasp already said, they all need some more good years.

    I like the RMcDaniel call as well as John Randall. Willie Roaf is a lock too.

    Farve is a no doubt 1st ballot.

    I think Thurman will get in this year and deservedly so.

    EAMUS CATULI!

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  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭
    I don't think Bettis is a lock or a first ballot guy, but I do think he gets in..He lasted longer than Eddie, scored more TDs than Eddie and has more rings...

    If I had to rate the Top 10 future HOF RBs by chances of being elected it would go like this:

    1-Emmitt Smith
    2-Marshall Faulk
    3-Thurman Thomas
    4-Curtis Martin
    5-Edgerrin James
    6-Jerome Bettis
    7-Terrell Davis
    8-Tiki Barber
    9-Ricky Watters
    10-Eddie George

    Jason
    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • gregmo32gregmo32 Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭
    When he retired (at the end of a very different offensive era), Art Monk was first in receptions and near the top in yards while playing in four Super Bowls and winning three. He had the record for a while for most receptions in a year. Aside from the recent era's explosion in numbers, WHY IS HE NOT EVEN MAKING IT INTO THE FINAL ROUND?
    I am buying and trading for RC's of Wilt Chamberlain, George Mikan, Bill Russell, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, and Bob Cousy!
    Don't waste your time and fees listing on ebay before getting in touch me by PM or at gregmo32@aol.com !
  • sixdartsixdart Posts: 821 ✭✭
    He was a finalist last year ... Pro Football Yearly Finalists ... (6) times since eligible.
  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭
    Bottom line on Monk is that it seems most of the voters think he was just boring..Quiet guy, never spectacular...I think its Peter King who coined him " The king of 8-yard hooks".

    He needed to get in BEFORE the WR numbers got "Jerry Rice stupid"...Thats how Joiner made it...If he were up today, he wouldnt get in either...

    The 3 pro bowls and 1 first team all-pro selection in a 16 year career isnt helping him either..It tells the voters he wasn't held in a HOF/Superstar type regard while he was playing..

    If Monk doesnt get in this year, he may never get in...
    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • aro13aro13 Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭
    I agree with skinpinch in Swann. His numbers have to be looked at in context. I posted this before but here goes again. In context Swann's post-season and regular season numbers look a lot better when you consider how little the Steelers threw the ball in the mid-70's.

    Between 1974 and 1978 in 12 play-off games Bradshaw averaged 13 completions and 194 yards per game. The Steelers, with their great defense, were predominantly a running team. In 1976 the Steelers had ONE receiver (Swann) that had more than 20 catches. They had two 1000 yard running backs.

    In 1975 Swann caught 49 passes for 781 yards. The Steelers as a team only threw for 2055 yards in games Swann played. Swann had 38% of the teams receiving yardage.

    In 1995 the greatest receiver in history Jerry Rice caught 122 passes for 1848 yards. The Forty-Niners as a team threw for 4779 yards. Rice had 38% of the teams receiving yardage.


    I would throw the name Kevin Mawae into the mix as possible candidates as well. Six straight pro bowls between 99 and 2004. Played in 177 straight games.

  • rbeatonrbeaton Posts: 631 ✭
    As for DBs, did anyone mention Darrell Green? I think he'll make it on the first ballot.

    Robert
    Looking for:
    Any high grade OPC Jim Palmer
    High grade Redskins (pre 1980)
  • ToppsCo1lectorToppsCo1lector Posts: 2,633
    I think Green is a lock, sometimes until someone brings up his(and others names) I know I just not even remember to mention them. IMO, a definite 1st ballot HOF'er.
    Collecting;
    Mark Mulder rookies
    Chipper Jones rookies
    Orlando Cabrera rookies
    Lawrence Taylor
    Sam Huff
    Lavar Arrington
    NY Giants
    NY Yankees
    NJ Nets
    NJ Devils
    1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards

    Looking for Topps rookies as well.

    References:
    GregM13
    VintageJeff
  • gregm13gregm13 Posts: 5,798 ✭✭✭
    What do you think about Jim Marshall? Will he be a senior candidate?

    Regards,

    Greg M.
    Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!

    References:
    Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
    E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
  • envoy98envoy98 Posts: 4,000 ✭✭
    Eddie George I don't think gets in.

    Tiki, especially if he retires after this year which has been speculated, is not going to get in.

    I agree that Bettis would have gotten in, or at least have been mentioned without the ring. Now I think he's a lock.

    Thurman deserves to be in there, no question.

    Esiason might get a sniff, but I don't think he makes it, same thing with Bledsoe(at least as of now). Both made it to Super Bowls but never won and I don't think of either of them as totally dominant qb's of their era.

    Testaverde? Not a chance.

    Larry Allen? Absolute lock.

    What about Deion Sanders? Is he a first ballot guy?
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  • gregm13gregm13 Posts: 5,798 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Eddie George I don't think gets in.

    Tiki, especially if he retires after this year which has been speculated, is not going to get in.

    I agree that Bettis would have gotten in, or at least have been mentioned without the ring. Now I think he's a lock.

    Thurman deserves to be in there, no question.

    Esiason might get a sniff, but I don't think he makes it, same thing with Bledsoe(at least as of now). Both made it to Super Bowls but never won and I don't think of either of them as totally dominant qb's of their era.

    Testaverde? Not a chance.

    Larry Allen? Absolute lock.

    What about Deion Sanders? Is he a first ballot guy? >>



    As much as I can't stand Neon Deion, he'll be a first or 2nd ballot HOFer. In some regards, he redefined the position and was the most dominant CB for much of the 90's.

    Regards,

    Greg M.
    Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!

    References:
    Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
    E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
  • envoy98envoy98 Posts: 4,000 ✭✭
    I agree that he gets in, is he a first ballot HOF'er though? He was as dominant a cover corner as there was, but his tackling has always left something to be desired. Unlike a guy like Lott who would lay you out with his pinky cut off. image
    image
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  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭


    << <i>What do you think about Jim Marshall? Will he be a senior candidate?

    Regards,

    Greg M. >>



    My feeling on Jim Marshall is that he will never get in. He was a finalist in his last year of modern era eligibility (2004) but did not get elected.

    His claim to fame is that he played for 20 years and was an iron man playing in 270 consecutive games. A record only broken last year by a Punter..He was also the guy who ran the wrong way on a fumble recovery netting a safety for the other team rather than a TD for his own..lol

    He only went to 2 Pro Bowls, was never a first team all-pro...He did play in 4 Super Bowls, but never won a ring.

    He was a solid, dependable player, but was never a dominant DE.
    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    What about Deion Sanders? Is he a first ballot guy? >>



    Absolutely first ballot. He was the top cover corner of his era, and maybe of all time. Not to mention his KR/PR skills.

    8 Pro Bowls..
    6 time first team all-pro...
    1994 Defensive Player of the Year

    Here's a short read on him:

    "During his 14-year career, the All-Pro Deion Sanders was one of the most feared pass defenders to ever play the game. He was so versatile, that he was a threat to score every time he touched the football. He intercepted 53 passes for 1331 yards (a 25.1 yards per return average), recovered 4 fumbles for 15 yards, returned 155 kickoffs for 3,523 yards, gained 2,199 yards on 212 punt returns, and even caught 60 passes for 784 yards. Sanders scored 21 touchdowns: 8 interception returns, 6 punt returns, 3 kickoff returns, 3 receiving, and 1 fumble recovery. His 19 defensive and return touchdowns are an NFL record."

    100% first ballot guy..Bank on it..
    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • aro13aro13 Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭
    Sanders is a definate lock. Best shutdown corner, perhaps ever. In the last 20 years there have been maybe only 1 or 2 other players who have influenced other teams game plans like Deion. As for his tackling, he was an okay tackler. Maybe, he was a lousy hitter (in football and baseball) but he did not miss that many tackles.
  • zef204zef204 Posts: 4,742 ✭✭


    << <i>Claude Humphrey is my sleeper...He made the final 10 last year in a very tough class...This is his last chance of getting in as a modern candidate. I think he will get the call this year. >>

    Do you have his RC? 1970 right?
    EAMUS CATULI!

    My Auctions
  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭
    Of course...lol

    image
    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • zef204zef204 Posts: 4,742 ✭✭
    Beauty! I just picked up a 71 that has a shot at a 9. The 70's don't come up often either raw or graded.
    EAMUS CATULI!

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  • FavreFan1971FavreFan1971 Posts: 3,103 ✭✭✭
    I forgot I started this thread. One person wrote that I forgot Favre and Manning and Curtis Martin. True, but I figured out they were locks. I was looking at borderline guys and picking up their rookie cards now.

    this is a great thread, keep it up.

    I do agree, Eddie George is not in. 3.6 yds can't cut it. Bettis will make it but on his 4th or 5th try.
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