Reggie Bush may be a contract holdout
Michigan
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He wants to be paid what someone who was the top pick in the draft would make, although he was the 2nd pick he apparently thinks
he is really the #1. This isn't going to be well received from the Saints fans who he earlier told he did not want to be a hold out.
It would be foolish to miss any of training camp, especially for a rookie.
he is really the #1. This isn't going to be well received from the Saints fans who he earlier told he did not want to be a hold out.
It would be foolish to miss any of training camp, especially for a rookie.
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<< <i>He wants to be paid what someone who was the top pick in the draft would make, although he was the 2nd pick he apparently thinks
he is really the #1. This isn't going to be well received from the Saints fans who he earlier told he did not want to be a hold out
It would be foolish to miss any of training camp, especially for a rookie. >>
He's really concerned about the Saints recovering from Katrina. Way to go, Reggie.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
then you would try to stay away from signing!
USC players are sissies...Key...Leinart...Bush.....he is scared! Duece has balls, he will be out there!
JS
Link
"Houston signed Williams to a six-year, $54 million contract, with $26.5 million guaranteed. San Francisco quarterback Alex Smith, the top pick in last year’s draft, got a six-year, $49.5 million contract from the 49ers, with $24 million guaranteed."
Link for Eli's Contract
"Top overall draft pick Eli Manning agreed to a six-year contract with the New York Giants that could be worth $54 million and will pay him a rookie-record $20 million signing bonus."
Reggie not only wants a higher contract but also more guaranteed money.
Gee, I wonder why no one would to trade up to get him
July 19, 2006
Saints' top pick Bush likely to hold out
By Michael Wallace
mwallace@clarionledger.com
New Orleans Saints top draft pick Reggie Bush will likely be a holdout when the team opens training camp in Jackson next week, a representative of the star running back told the Clarion-Ledger today.
Mike Ornstein, Bush's marketing agent, said Bush and the Saints "probably" won't agree to terms on a contract until after camp starts.
The Saints report to Millsaps College on July 27 and will start practice the following afternoon on the campus just north of downtown Jackson.
"Do we feel like he'll be there at the start?" Ornstein said in a telephone interview from his California office. "I'm not sure where we are right now. I'd say probably not, at this stage."
Bush, the Heisman Trophy winner out of Southern Cal, was the No. 2 overall pick in April's NFL draft. During the Saints' rookie mini-camp in May, Bush said he told his team of agents to do whatever they needed to make sure a deal was reached that would allow him to report to camp on time.
Saints general manager Mickey Loomis did not immediately respond to an interview request. The Saints have signed three of their eight 2006 draft picks in the past 10 days. But the team's top four picks remain unsigned a week before players report, which is not uncommon among NFL teams. Many deals, especially ones involving higher-round picks, typically get done weeks into training camp.
Apparently at issue is whether the Saints will offer Bush, who many rated as the top player in the draft, a better deal than what Houston gave Mario Williams when the Texans surprisingly chose the former North Carolina State defensive end first overall.
Williams has reportedly agreed to a six-year deal worth $54 million, with $26.5 million in guaranteed pay.
Ornstein is one of at least two lead members of a team that handles Bush's professional matters. Ornstein said he primarily negotiates the player's endorsement deals. Joel Segal, who will negotiate Bush's contract with the Saints, declined to comment when reached on his cell phone this afternoon.
Ornstein's comments come a day after the agent for former Texas quarterback Vince Young, the No. 3 overall pick, said he was heading to Nashville to get a deal done in time for Young to open camp with the Tennessee Titans late next week.
Ornstein said Bush is in Los Angeles, where he shot a commercial for Pepsi on Tuesday and has been working out on the USC campus.
"He's been training and getting himself ready," Ornstein said. "Reggie's going to be fine."
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
If NO doesn't want to pony up, the team is going to be the ones that look bad, not Reggie. The aints need to pay him and be done...instead of doing this ridiculous posturing.
Hmmm...bold statement considering he hasn't yet even played a single down in the NFL. Maybe he'll be as "good" as another Saints running back high draft pick - Ricky Williams.
<< <i>Ricky Williams would have been an all time great if he had his act together. >>
Of course I don't think many would disagree, except Stalin who smokes crack while posting here, that Bush barring injury is going to be very good and could even be great. But I personally am sick and tired of these rookie holdouts. I can understand a veteran holding out who has a track record of proven performance.
And I fully understand that any new sports contract is usually based on future performance not past performance. And I fully understand the fear of injury ending a career so a player wants to get as much money as possible now. But any untested rookie getting offered boatloads of money, and then holding out for more, just simply irritates me, and Bush isn't going to get any sympathy from me. F* him and his stinkin' agent!
<< <i>F* him and his stinkin' agent! >>
The Texans knew he was a head case and was going to demand unreasonable money for limited playing time.
As I said, no one was willing to trade up this "once in a generation player". $54M+ with $26.5M+ guaranteed for 10, maybe 15 carries and special teams? That money can be better spent for an every down player
You can spin all you want, but they made a mistake (and the poll I made shows a majority of people here agree with me that Williams was a worse choice for the Texans than Bush).
Reggie Bush though is in a position to dictate his demands. He is a being called a once in a decade back and he worked hard to achieve that status. He should be paid accordingly. I think they are all overpaid, but he should be paid more than any rookie ever.
<< <i>"We're confident the Saints will live up to what they stated at the beginning, that Reggie would be treated like the top pick," Ornstein said. "He's been at every camp, at every workout, out in the community. The Saints sold 15,000 season tickets the week after he was drafted. His impact has been huge." >>
Just shows that his ego is getting in the way and he refuses to accept the fact that he wasn't the #1 pick.
Cedric Benson tried doing the same thing last year. Held out of camp, took a while to adjust, got hurt, and ended the season on the IR.
While I would never wish injury upon a player, I will say this. Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it in the future
He'll get paid more than that dope Williams, and rightfully so....the selling of tens of thousands of season tickets came directly from them drafting Bush - he should get paid for that.
Unlike Williams - who, really, is excited about that guy other than you stownie?
No one?
*ding* *ding* We have a winner!
Yes or no.
<< <i>Do you want to make an avatar/icon bet that Bush does not get more money (overal contract and guaranteed) than Williams?
Yes or no. >>
Not going to go on the guaranteed, but overall contract he will get more coin than Williams.
<< <i>All bark and no bite
Look I am willing to bet on the total contract money...what, are you chickening out?
That's what I thought.
1) The Saints must sign Bush to a Contract which will exceed $54,000,000 with a signing bonus in excess of $26,500,000.
2) The loser must keep the avatar/icon of the winner's choice for the entire football season. Said avatar/icon cannot violate CU's TOS
3) This offer must be accepted by midnight tonight
I already have yours picked out
You can try and come back with any attempted insult you want, axtell. I honestly don't care because everyone here will see who the real chicken is
Put up or shut up, little doggy. YAP! YAP! YAP!
Are you man enough to take this bet, or are you trying to put so many provisions in it you know you can't lose (like your stupid poll)?
You have until midnight pacific today to accept, or the forum will know what a crybaby you truly are.
Past #1 Draft Picks
2002 Carr $14,000,000 guaranteed
2003 Palmer $14,100,000 guaranteed
2004 Manning $20,000,000 guaranteed
2005 Smith $24,000,000 guaranteed
2006 Williams $26,500,000 guaranteed
Notice a pattern here? It's MORE each year. Alex Smith took less overall money but took more in guaranteed. But considering you don't know how the NFL works, I can see why you refuse to see the facts. Thank you for proving that you know absolutely nothing about anything.
YAP! YAP! YAP! Little doggy...
the only pattern here is how you spin and skew things to get a desired outcome. You did it with the arod poll, you're trying to do it with this bet. Total money was the bet, and you want to bring in guaranteed money into the mix as well.
It's obvious you aren't willing to take the 'total contract' bet, so I will take that as you are too CHICKEN to accept the bet.
Too bad, it would have been hillarious to see you running around with an 'I'm an idiot!' signature as you posted after you lost.
CHICKEN.
I was the first one to propose a bet:
<< <i>Do you want to make an avatar/icon bet that Bush does not get more money (overal contract and guaranteed) than Williams?
Yes or no. >>
There is no skewing or twisting on this end
And just for educational purposes, you know that a "total contract" (which are your exact words) is base AND guaranteed salary, right? And to continue this lesson, since you obviously need one, without guaranteed money, a player can be released and he gets nothing, zip, ziltch, nada. Heck, a $60M contract is worthless without anything guaranteed, axtell.
Link
"Unlike the deals in other sports, NFL contracts are not guaranteed. If a team decides it no longer wants a player, it can release him and not owe a single dollar of the remaining years on his contract. The player's protection: bonus money.
...In other words, the golden years are measured in gold. And the gold standard is the signing bonus. It locks in the early portion of the contract, it produces guaranteed money for the player and it sets in motion certain salary-cap mechanics that reinforce the structure.
..."Injury, a coaching change, a new philosophy by the team, these things can cause a team to change a player's circumstance," says Condon, meaning the club will either ask for a restructuring of the contract, request a flat-out pay cut or simply release the player.
...Reality doesn't mean much, however, when agents compete for clients and try to show off. Or when players want to be paid more than their competitors and accept ridiculous backside numbers that will never be paid."
If Bush is really going to make more than Mario, as you claim, this proves it's not just about the total dollar number but also the guaranteed number. You can either be a man and put your avatar where your yapping mouth is or run away with your tail in between your legs.
We all know you are going to wuss out, axtell. You yap and yap and yap yet won't back it up
We all know that NFL contracts aren't guaranteed money like the NBA or MLB; that has no relevance to the discussion at hand.
it's ok, we all know you're a whiny little wimp - your cowering from this bet just PROVES it.
Get lost, twerp. You're a fraud.
Who is trying to change the bet. You.
"Reality doesn't mean much, however, when agents compete for clients and try to show off. Or when players want to be paid more than their competitors and accept ridiculous backside numbers that will never be paid."
BAWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
I hope Bush gets a $100,000,000 contract with zero guarantees. He will almost look like the fool that you have just cemented yourself to be
If you aren't saying yes to this bet, then be quiet little man.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Not man enough to make a simple bet, without throwing in additional provisions?
Thought so, chicken chit.
You could look up at the sky, say it is blue and he would debate/argue the shade of blue with you.
Steve
stownie-
you have my final offer, either accept it or chicken out.
<< <i>Do you want to make an avatar/icon bet that Bush does not get more money (overal contract and guaranteed) than Williams?
Yes or no. >>
If Bush is going to make more, like you guaranteed he would, then it shouldn't be an issue for you.
Be a man, honor the legit bet, and let's move on. If you don't, then I know, for a fact, you are all bark and no bite.
<< <i>I thought you guys had finally agreed last night to cut down on these pissing matches. The multiple postings, back and forth, ad nauseam, totally derail virtually every thread on these boards, and are just juvenile and annoying at this stage, as I'm sure most other members of this board would surely agree. >>
I tried but after his constant trolling, I told him to put his avatar/icon where his mouth is. If you haven't noticed, he posted some attempted insults to me on other threads which I never responded to
Stown
<< Do you want to make an avatar/icon bet that Bush does not get more money (overal contract and guaranteed) than Williams?
Yes or no. >>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Axtell:
Not going to go on the guaranteed, but overall contract he will get more coin than Williams.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve
either accept the bet of most money overall (none of this guaranteed money qualifier BS), or the bet's off.
Until you accept this bet on these conditions, my posts in this thread are done.
Bush, along with every other NFL player, has the right to squeeze every cent they possibly can.
I would say that the term "overall contract" refers to the agreement to pay all monies during the life of the contract. This would include signing bonuses, incentives, etc.
Can't see two different contracts written to cover salary and bonuses.
The bet to me seems to be all money, which is a factor in the NFL with their pay structure. That also was the original offer on the bet.
The cap on rookie pay is the deal here. Isn't the rookie cap far less than 1 mill over the first two years? That's why they get the big signing bonus. It is possible that Bush and Williams will receive the same salary, the most that can be given under the CBA. This possibility makes the bet on salary only pointless.
Case in point - the story yesterday about Mike Williams in Detroit.
From realfootball365 -
The number that is being reported in terms of fines last year is $400,000 for the wideout. That is chump change for some professional athletes, but representative of Williams' entire base salary during his first two seasons in the league. While he still has $9.5 million guaranteed from his original rookie deal, one has to wonder how long the Lions are going to put up with a guy who is as equally talented as he is frustrating.
<< <i>I would say that the term "overall contract" refers to the agreement to pay all monies during the life of the contract. This would include signing bonuses, incentives, etc.
Can't see two different contracts written to cover salary and bonuses.
The bet to me seems to be all money, which is a factor in the NFL with their pay structure. That also was the original offer on the bet.
The cap on rookie pay is the deal here. Isn't the rookie cap far less than 1 mill over the first two years? That's why they get the big signing bonus. It is possible that Bush and Williams will receive the same salary, the most that can be given under the CBA. This possibility makes the bet on salary only pointless. >>
That's the whole point. As it says in the article I posted, Bush could get more salary, even if it's only $1, just to show off. It's ALL about the guaranteed salary.... Axtell knows this hence the reason he refuses to accept the original bet.
Speaking of the little doggy that's all bark and no bite.
See you had another long, lonely Friday night fantasizing about A-Rod again.
You spew all this trash about Reggie being a "once in a generation player" and guaranteeing he would be the highest paid NFL rookie, yet become a coward and run with your tail in between your legs when you get called out.
While it would be hilarious to see Cindy Brady as your icon for the entire football season, I'll just call you by a name that suits you perfectly.
Tinkerbell
you're being the coward here little man.
You want to throw in as many provisions into the bet to assure yourself of winning - just like you spun the poll you created about Arod.
Try harder next time! Maybe you'll be able to dupe someone into accepting a bet with extra clauses - you won't dupe me.
Anyhoo..
What are these additional provisions are you talking about?
1) The Saints must sign Bush to a Contract which will exceed $54,000,000 with a signing bonus in excess of $26,500,000.
2) The loser must keep the avatar/icon of the winner's choice for the entire football season. Said avatar/icon cannot violate CU's TOS
Whenever an NFL rookie contract is announced, they say the player signed a $x contract with $x in signing bonus/guaranteed money. Heck, whenever they announce any multi-year contract, the team MUST disclose both because of the salary cap.
I know why you won't take the bet; it's because you know you are wrong, as always
I know math is a tricky subject for you, but it's really just that simple.
Again, you want as many qualifications as possible...its evident you dont want to deal, so we're done.
Yap, yap, yap, yap
Back on topic:
Bush's ego is growing by the day and may sit out the entire year.. Wonder if he's all bark just like Tinkerbell
Link
Report: Bush might sit out 2006 season
No. 2 draft pick, ex-Heisman winner fighting Saints over contract
MSNBC News Services
Updated: 12:23 a.m. CT July 22, 2006
Former Heisman Trophy winnner and No. 2 overall draft pick Reggie Bush is considering sitting out his rookie season and re-entering the 2007 draft because of his contract squabbles with the New Orleans Saints, Yahoo! reported Saturday, citing NFL sources.
"No player has ever had the kind of leverage that Reggie Bush has right now," the source told Yahoo!. "The Saints made it clear what they were willing to do before and now we'll see if they're going to get there."
Bush is scheduled to report to training camp Thursday in Jackson, Miss. Yahoo! said that talks between the parties have been nearly non-existent, according to sources.
Bush's marketing agent Mike Ornstein told the Clarion-Ledger of Jackson, Miss. on Friday that the running back likely would not sign with the Saints before camp.
© 2006 MSNBC Interactive
And you constantly whine about calling you names, yet you can't resist, can you chump?
You were offered a straight up bet, yet you couldn't help but try to add qualifiers - what are you, AFRAID?
I thought so, dope.
Get lost chicken chit.