I remember seeing a 45-P Dime with 'made' full bands in a **** holder a year or two ago in auction. Bell lines would be tough to fake but the dimes are out there.
I have seen laser cut 1945-P mercury dimes. Quite often they are combined with a soft mechanical cut into the band.
You need to have seen many of them to get a feel for when the cut is too deep for the surrounding area of shallow non fully rounded full bands.
It is easy to find these artifical cuts if:
(1) you use two different glasses in conjuction with eyeballing the coin,
(2) observe the degree of progressivity in the mint made band separation getting shallower and shallower until there should be no separation. If the separation continues when it has passed the point of "no return" then you know you have an "enhanced cut,"
(3) observe bag marks near the center bands in which you MUST analyze the depth of the bag mark. If the bag mark does NOT cross the center bands, you MUST observe if the bands were BUILT UP by excess metals used from elsewhere and to see if the offending bag mark suddenly disappeared within the bands and then resumed on the other side,
(4) Use at least THREE KINDS OF LIGHTING which will help ascertain an artifical cut,
(5) I could go on but you get the idea!
The keys are
(1) Know your coins (2) Know your seller (3) Know or learn the history of your coin (4) Much older slabbed coins of the FBL and FB variety were slabbed long before the pricing really went crazy on the FBL's and FB's. Be more wary on newer slabs. (5) Take the time to study what you are looking at. (6) Do not assume that TPG services cannot make mistakes.
There will come a time when the better grading services will take even stronger precautions as their liability is too great not to.
By the way, I am no (self proclaimed) expert. I am still learning!
The lasers used for industrial/commercial manufacturing can slit a 1/16 inch wide line thru 3/4 inch thick steel plate all day, then be reprogrammed to lightly etch SS with a holographic design. These lasers vaporize the metal being removed.
On the AMADA APPELIO lasers , a small slag box under the turret and laser arm collects the DUST from the metal removed. A heavy production run of 12 hours may only produce a small handful of this metal particulate.
FWIW
Manuel
Monday April 10, 2006 9:04 AM
SM1 calls me a troublemaker....
-------------------------------------------- Sunday August 19, 2007 9:17AM
<< <i>Yeah, the metal doesn't cease to exist. Once it's been moved, it would have to be physically removed to not be noticed. >>
Not sure, but I think a laser can be tuned to produce a hot enuff focal point that the metal would vaporize and be "blown away".
I remember preparing small insects, etc. for the Scanning Electron Microscope at Chicagos Field Museum.
We would mount the insect on a pin in a glass walled 2 -3 cubic feet chamber along with a lump ( about 1-2 grams) of gold in a crucible.
The chamber was then sealed off and enuff heat was then applied to the crucible to melt and subsequently vaporize the gold. The gold vapor would then condense on the the walls of the chamber and the insect , coating the insect with a layer of gold only a few atoms thick. This enabled the electon beam to "see" the specimen clearly.
So, no, the metal is not lost, just vaporized and hence removed.
"Wars are really ugly! They're dirty and they're cold. I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole." Mary
With all due respect to everyone, maybe we should just accept that the coin is now FBL. The effect of the laser will be minimal and the coin will have complete lines.
Suparcarcoins, get off your horse. I read Michio Kaku's books and follow physics as an avocation.
By the way, there's eleven.
Spare your best friend's life!! Adopt an adult dog at your local "kill" animal shelter. You will be changed.
I've seen enough SLQs slabbed as FH coins when imo they do not qualify as such so that in the six seconds given re Full Bell Franklins can be missed as well. that being said, I'm sure they give more attention to coins which would be worth quite a bit more money if they received a Full Bell, Full Head, or other similar designation.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
Comments
wouldn`t the cheese just melt the two halves back together ??
let`s hear it from all you self proclaimed experts...........
You need to have seen many of them to get a feel for when the cut is too deep for the surrounding area of shallow non fully rounded full bands.
It is easy to find these artifical cuts if:
(1) you use two different glasses in conjuction with eyeballing the coin,
(2) observe the degree of progressivity in the mint made band separation getting shallower and shallower until there should be no separation. If the separation continues when it has passed the point of "no return" then you know you have an "enhanced cut,"
(3) observe bag marks near the center bands in which you MUST analyze the depth of the bag mark. If the bag mark does NOT cross the center bands, you MUST observe if the bands were BUILT UP by excess metals used from elsewhere and to see if the offending bag mark suddenly disappeared within the bands and then resumed on the other side,
(4) Use at least THREE KINDS OF LIGHTING which will help ascertain an artifical cut,
(5) I could go on but you get the idea!
The keys are
(1) Know your coins
(2) Know your seller
(3) Know or learn the history of your coin
(4) Much older slabbed coins of the FBL and FB variety were slabbed long before the pricing really went crazy on the FBL's and FB's. Be more wary on newer slabs.
(5) Take the time to study what you are looking at.
(6) Do not assume that TPG services cannot make mistakes.
There will come a time when the better grading services will take even stronger precautions as their liability is too great not to.
By the way, I am no (self proclaimed) expert. I am still learning!
I would like to hear from the Franklin halves specialists.
thank you for your expert observations .
How about an exacto blade?
Hey, I am no expert! Just learning!
that I know everything there is to
know about everything. I am just so smart
that sometimes it scares me.
Camelot
The lasers used for industrial/commercial manufacturing can slit a 1/16 inch wide line thru 3/4 inch thick steel plate all day, then be reprogrammed to lightly etch SS with a holographic design. These lasers vaporize the metal being removed.
On the AMADA APPELIO lasers , a small slag box under the turret and laser arm collects the DUST from the metal removed. A heavy production run of 12 hours may only produce a small handful of this metal particulate.
FWIW
Manuel
SM1 calls me a troublemaker....
--------------------------------------------
Sunday August 19, 2007 9:17AM
A mentor awarded " YOU SUCK!!"
<< <i>Who needs a a laser?
How about an exacto blade? >>
bIG time : o.k - you use an exacto knife and report back on the results
Your on the team !!
<< <i>Yeah, the metal doesn't cease to exist. Once it's been moved, it would have to be physically removed to not be noticed. >>
Not sure, but I think a laser can be tuned to produce a hot enuff focal point that the metal would vaporize and be "blown away".
I remember preparing small insects, etc. for the Scanning Electron Microscope at Chicagos Field Museum.
We would mount the insect on a pin in a glass walled 2 -3 cubic feet chamber along with a lump ( about 1-2 grams) of gold in a crucible.
The chamber was then sealed off and enuff heat was then applied to the crucible to melt and subsequently vaporize the gold. The gold vapor would then condense on the the walls of the chamber and the insect , coating the insect with a layer of gold only a few atoms thick. This enabled the electon beam to "see" the specimen clearly.
So, no, the metal is not lost, just vaporized and hence removed.
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
<< <i>...got Laser`s ?? >>
Cool...you bumped your own (alt's) thread
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Na...just have a chunk chomped out of you assets.
<< <i>In a six second grading environment? Unlikely.
Russ, NCNE >>
i think the lazer would be spotted (or should be)...yeah maybe give them seven seconds, okay????
Suparcarcoins, get off your horse. I read Michio Kaku's books and follow physics as an avocation.
By the way, there's eleven.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Neither can the Lakers
I know, not a great contribution to the thread but a die-hard Boston fan couldn't resist.
Joe
Don't they have a Laser show as part of the pre-game ceremonies ?
...that matchup should prove to be an epic battle between two of the best teams I ever seen