Fletcher, did you really leave BigD a Negative over that?

goose3

You're more of a jackass than I had initially thought.




figured I'd drag the Fletcher thread over to it's own and out of my dirty laundry.

goose3

yep, clears it right up.

I am going to have to take back my comment that he's probably not a bad Joe.

I am simply dumbfounded that he left Darin a negative.




Horrible Dealer - Item Never Received, He Refuses to Give Refund Six Weeks Later



and it's a TOTAL LIE to top it all off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

D

My most expensive coin came from Darin, stand up guy, it took a little while longer due to busy schedules, but nonetheless it's still my best buy .

-Daniel

goose3

ok hairsplitter knowitall.

go back to your badmouthing me via PM.

BlindedByEgo

<< <i> >>

JJM

Myqqy

Hopefully, people won't pay any attention to that negative, as there is always at least one a-hole who has to muck up a feedback record for even the most stand-up seller- which Darin is.....

coinbuf

What a jagoff you are Fletcher I've been wanting to use that verbage since it came up.

Chris

Fairlaneman

Two clowns were blocked that came from Darins Feedback Log .....

Whats wrong with you fletcher ? Being a Jagoff come naturally ?

Ken

ksteelheader

<< <i>ok hairsplitter knowitall.

go back to your badmouthing me via PM. >>



May I join in???

09sVDB

I've met Darin personnaly and can honestly say he's one of the fairest dealers i've ever met!

TavernTreasures

Hi coin forum members-I am relatively new to this board and have been lurking about a year. I have been a coin collector approx 40 years and a very serious antique advertising collector about 25 years. This whole situation just hits a nerve with me. I have bought countless items though the mail over the years (auctions, mail bid, ebay, etc). Never in my wildest dreams would I expect a seller (dealer or collector) of a lost or damaged insured package to pay me back my money before the post office goes thru the insurance process completely. Why would any buyer blame a coorperating seller and expect to be reimbursed before the post office settles the claim? It is not the sellers fault that the PO lost or damaged the item (except for poor packaging). When a package is lost or damaged it takes a lot of time to get your money from the PO. Maybe I am old school.

Russ

<< <i>Why would any buyer blame a coorperating seller and expect to be reimbursed before the post office settles the claim? >>



A reasonable person wouldn't.

BTW, do you have any Billy Beer?

Russ, NCNE

Russ

<< <i>Will this thread break 100 tonight because its a flamming thread? >>



It will now that you've posted. You have the magic touch.

Russ, NCNE

ziggy29

Quoted verbatim (before edits):



<< <i>I dunno, all my dealings with Fletcher have been easy. He does ask for anything ridiculous. >>



Seems like a contradiction to me!

Russ

And I was nice enough to let that one slide.

Russ, NCNE

a039

Lets ask the monkey, was it cool to leave that neg?

TorinoCobra71

<< <i>

<< <i>Will this thread break 100 tonight because its a flamming thread? >>



It will now that you've posted. You have the magic touch.

Russ, NCNE >>



Aint that the truth.

TorinoCobra71

Bochiman

Laura,

He is probably reasonable as long as everything occurs with no issue. Had the PO not delivered a coin you sent him, in the time period he wanted, even if no fault of yours, would you send a refund first or wait to file when the PO officially claims it is lost?
I think either choice is the dealer's choice depending on their relationship to the customer.

If you go read the thread he did on Darin, maybe you will see why people say he is unreasonable. Good luck in your dealings with him and may all your transactions never have an outside influence on them concerning him.


a039....cool monkey! ER's brother?

Fairlaneman

<< <i>Why do people here live for this kind of stuff? Will this thread break 100 tonight because its a flamming thread?

I dunno, all my dealings with Fletcher have been easy. He does NOT ask for anything ridiculous. >>



If something happens that is out of your control do you think he will be reasonable ? Read a little Laura about this guy and then answer.

Geez you have a knack for sticking up for deadbeats....

Ken

ziggy29

<< <i>I forgot one small word.... >>

I know what you meant, Laura. Just had to strike while the iron was hot.

Tonelover

Fortunately the number of lost packages for me has been quite small. Unfortunately, I have never had a buyer who wasn't threatening to call either their attorney or the police after about two weeks of waiting for the PO to settle the claim.

majorbigtime

If you are just a buyer, NEGs don't mean diddly squat.

GAT

I blame a lot of this on Paypal. Lots of bidders know that they always side with the buyer and never listen to the seller.

Russ

<< <i>All I see written is he refused to make a refund. >>



You need to read more closely. He made it very clear that he would issue a refund once the postal claim process had completed. When Fletcher decided to start whacking out, the Post Office hadn't even yet declared the package lost.

Russ, NCNE

roadrunner

At what point do you draw the line? What if it's a $10,000 coin?
Do you just mail the refund to the seller and "hope" he's not pulling a scam on you? What if that's the week he gets critically ill and his family is left to handle his affairs? Well good luck! I had a ANA, ICTA, NGC, PCGS, FUN (everything but PNG) dealer do a similar thing to me. He walked with my coins and the money as he went under.
I've always been amazed at how easy it would be to chalk up hundreds of thousands in coins at a large show and just skip away.
One can build up a reasonable rep in a few months or a year and have approval service with half the coin dealers out there. And knowing that I've still sent multi-thousand dollar coins to others on approval who I knew only from a forum member recommendation...and they in kind as well. But do this long enough and the odds will catch up with anyone.

$500 lost to one person may be the same damage as $50,000 to the next.

roadrunner

cohodk

Fletcher.....Please add me to the list of people that do not want to deal with you. COHODK on Ebay and on the PCGS BST.

Darin did everything possible to accomodate you. Please leave our community and take your stupid a$$ cowbell with you.

Russ

<< <i>But I'd be in touch with the person every step of the way. >>



Which is EXACTLY what Darin did.



<< <i>Once the claim is filed, then I'd make the refund-I would not wait for the money. Its a nasty Federal offense if they lie about receiving the package. >>



If you issue the refund before the investigation is complete, and it turns out that the buyer actually did receive the package, the fact that it's a Federal offense will do you no good. The Post Office will still deny your claim, and you'd be out both the coin and the money.

Russ, NCNE

Connecticoin

<< <i>Why do people here live for this kind of stuff? Will this thread break 100 tonight because its a flamming thread?

I dunno, all my dealings with Fletcher have been easy. He does NOT ask for anything ridiculous. >>



Yah, you just better hope the post office never loses any coin you send him. Of course, now he can't neg you if he wins a new Legend auction!!

RYK

While I think Fletcher overreacted and I do not blame Darin for the fiasco, let me be the first to say that if I were Darin, I would have processed the refund prior to the insurance claim when it was pretty clear that the package was delayed more than what is typical. I have no doubt that Fletcher would have resent the payment if the coin arrived in the 11th hour.

To look at it another way, if Darin sent the coin on approval, would Fletcher have been out the money for 30 days prior to filing the claim?

Numismanic

<< <i>and take your stupid a$$ cowbell with you. >>

Connecticoin

<< <i>If I sold a coin and it did not get delivered, in the end I'd have to pay for it and then go get the insurance money. Its NOT the buyers fault. Its up to the seller to deliver the goods.

I can see if its a very expensive coin not making a refund, but save for an issue like that (where I would assume the buyer would know the dealer well) I think anyone not doing so would be wrong. That is just how I do business.

In this case, I know nothing about the seller. He could be the greatest guy in the world. All I see written is he refused to make a refund. I do admit to being confused about the waiting time. Am I missing something? >>



Laura, for you, Fletcher is a cash cow, so I can see you paying him before the postal claim settled.

However, this was the first time Darin had dealt with Fletcher -- if he refunds the money right away, he has to depend on a customer he does not know to cooperate on the postal claim. Most REASONABLE customers would be patient and wait until the package is declared lost. Many times, the package shows up anyway.

Fletcher

I thought that this was over with, but apparently not. My last word on the subject

The facts here are not in dispute ... at least between Darin and I. Other board members are making up things as they go along, but Darin and I have not contradicted each other:

1. I won the auction, from a dealer ON EBAY that I have had no experience with, and paid instantly;

2. After one month, and several emails back and forth (no communication problems), the coin still had not showed up;

3. I have a friend that works in the post office, went and saw that friend, who researched the packagage, said "It has been lost" and gave me a print-out to send to Darin.

4. I sent the print-out to Darin, said that I have waited over a month which was long enough, and requested an immediate refund;

5. Darrin said no, and that I had to wait until he processed the claim with the post office;

6. I was not satisified with his answer and demanded an immediate refund;

7. Prior to filing a claim or posting a negative, I posted on this board hoping that reasonable minds would prevail and that pressure from other board members would encourage him to refund the money immediately;

8. He still refused to refund the money at that point and I received a barrage of insults and board members tried to spin the facts to make it my fault;

9. I offered Darin one more chance to issue a refund before I disputed it with Paypal ... he still issued no refund;

10. I disputed the charge with Paypal, and told Darin that I would not leave a negative yet ... hoping that he would just agree to the refund when Paypal sent him notice of my dispute ... again, he did not agree to the refund so the Paypal dispute process continued its course;

11. More than six weeks later, Paypal found in my favor and forced Darin to refund my money;

12. Feeling that I gave him enough chances to give me a refund, which he did not in fact willing do, I left him a negative.

These facts are not in dispute! The only thing that is in dispute is:

... how long should an eBay buyer wait for a refund when he buys a coin and that coin is lost in the mail? One month, six weeks, three months, indefinitely? Please chose one of the aforentioned responses and let me know how long I should have waited.

This is the only issue that Darin and I have with each other. The rest of the board's issues are made up and irrelevent.

For me, six weeks was long enough, especially when I let the seller know several times what my expectations were. If that makes me a jack-off in your opinion ... then so be it

As far as my dealings with other dealers ... if this happened with any of the other dealers that I do business with on a regular basis, they would have offered a refund without my asking. And, if for some unforeseen reason they couldn't ... I would wait as long as they needed me to because I have an established relationship with them and my regular dealers have always given me STELLAR service ... not just good service, but STELLAR service. When dealing with someone I don't know on eBay for the first time, it's a different story.

Connecticoin

Fletcher, one more time, a FACT you have not disputed it that the Post Office NEVER declared the package lost at the time you beatched about it on these boards. It was impossbile for the seller to file a claim, and given your unreasonable conduct, the seller had no reason to trust you to cooperate if he had refunded you money in advance. You can spin it all you want, but for all the seller knows, you could have received the package and could be lying.

Now you have the gall to neg him -- but I guess one can expect that from an impatient, unreasonable ASS.

Spin away, doofus, but please dispense with your phoney smileys!!

Fletcher

Actually, he and I both tracked it online @ usps.com and it showed that it had not been delivered. Also, I faxed him the official print-out from the post office. Please stick to the facts, they are not in dispute. the sole question is ... how long should I have waited. Answer please

coinkat

It is amazing how many lost items are found after a postal insurance claim has been filed... the reality is that a number of days pass by that seem like an eternity waiting for something for which you have high expectations for and not to see it is disappointing... please put disappointment into perspective as well as the control that people have over things that are well beyond control...


Think about things that really matter and then the time and effort that is being spent on this...

Fletcher

<< <i>And the "reasonable minds", even though mostly collectors and not dealers, sided with Darin (the dealer) for the most part. >>



Yes, some sided with Darin ... however, not on the facts. Please, side with Darin, but tell me ... how long should I have waited Mr. Feld?

ziggy29

<< <i>9. I offered Darin one more chance to issue a refund before I disputed it with Paypal ... he still issued no refund; >>

See, here's the thing. What is to stop you from disputing it after Darin gives you a refund? As long as you hold the dispute to PayPal over his head like the Sword of Damocles, how can he assume (if he's never dealt with you) that you won't "double dip" and try to file a dispute even after he gives you a refund? Or that you won't get the coin later (postal delays aren't unheard of) and keep it quiet, getting both the coin and your money back?

Note that I'm not questioning your integrity. I'm just saying what a seller dealing with a buyer they don't know has to consider in the general case. The *potential* was there for you to leave Darin hanging out to dry IF you eventually got the coin.

If I were the seller here, depending on the feedback history of the buyer, my past experiences with them and the value of the item, I might go ahead and refund it anyway and pursue the postal claim myself -- and hope you'd be honest if the coin later arrived (which I believe you would be). If the coin was a higher value, I might be inclined to offer half the purchase price as a "good faith" refund while the situation evolved. But depending on the circumstances, it might be a bit much to ask that a seller who has never done business with you to give you a full refund while either (a) the coin could still arrive or (b) they could still pursue a claim with PayPal anyway. That's as much trust as sending a coin on approval to someone you've never dealt with. (Though I will add that there are two dealers who are board members here who have sent me $300ish coins on approval even though I hadn't done business with them. I bought the coins in both cases.)

RYK

12. Feeling that I gave him enough chances to give me a refund, which he did not in fact willing do, I left him a negative.

IMO, this action crossed the line. The negative should be reserved for thieves and scammers. Perhaps Darin's service did not meet your expectations, but this episode did not justify the negative, IMO, even though, as I stated earlier, I think he should have refunded the payment sooner.

jabba

<< <i>

Actually, he and I both tracked it online @ usps.com and it showed that it had not been delivered. Also, I faxed him the official print-out from the post office. Please stick to the facts, they are not in dispute. the sole question is ... how long should I have waited. Answer please >>



you should wait until Darin processed the claim with the post office?

Fletcher

Ziggy ... excellent argument! Therein lies the dilemma ... however, since I gave the seller the benefit of the doubt that he was honest by sending him the money before I received the coin ... I expect him to give me the benefit of the doubt that I am honest when it does not show up and the post office concurs that it has not yet been delivered. Tit for tat. Call me unreasonable, but that is how I roll

ar18

I agree with Mark 100% and have been on the end of no coins, patience is a virtue, learn it and love it if you are going to use USPS, 6 weeks, with excellent communication, always being able to dispute?? What did your diaper burst or something?

Russ

<< <i>Actually, he and I both tracked it online @ usps.com and it showed that it had not been delivered. Also, I faxed him the official print-out from the post office. >>



Neither the online tracking nor the internally generated post office memo comprise an official declaration by the USPS that the package has been lost. You might be able to bamboozle some with that irrelevant information, but anybody with extensive shipping experience knows better.

Russ, NCNE

jabba

I take this comment in this post back.

Fletcher

THANK YOU Jabba for your answer!!! It appears that none of Darin's supporters want to answer the one question central to this dispute. You say that I should have waited until he filed the claim ... maybe you are right. I disagree, but you do have a point

Russ

<< <i>If I were the seller here, depending on the feedback history of the buyer >>



In this case, the buyer's feedback sucks.

Russ, NCNE

BigD5

Fletcher, #3, and #4 is an internal trace that I already had my PO do on the package. All it shows is what we already knew, the package shipped when I said it did.

The term "lost" is something you or your "friend" are fabricating or imagining. You don't have paperwork to that effect. You have the internal tracking paperwork, which is far different.

As for the rest of it, some of it I'll agree with some of it I won't. Once you filed the chargeback with Paypal, we were done. At that point, you and Paypal were going to go through the motions, and only YOU could retract the chargeback. I knew you were going to get your money via Paypal (the item didn't get delivered to you) and there was nothing more I could after that, as far as a refund went. My paypal account rep confirmed this, and that was that.

#11 doesn't happen that way. Paypal rules in your favor, takes the disputed money and refunds it to you.

If you want to neg me, that's ok, but then you blatantly lied in your statement left concerning your negative. You are a LIAR.

Laura may not have problems with you, and neither may 100 other dealers. I could care less what they think, I know how you handled this situation, and as I mentioned previously, I haven't had the "pleasure" with dealing with someone like you EVER. Maybe I've just been lucky.

Of course dealers that you do regular business with would have handled this situation differently. I didn't know you from a hole in the wall, and no one was knocking down my PM door letting me know what an upstanding citizen you were/are. Funny how I didn't get one. Not one.

Believe me, I was done with this situation as well and then I see your need to continue to take cheap shots at me in another thread. You received your money back and left your neg..........

StrikeOutXXX

<< <i>

Actually, he and I both tracked it online @ usps.com and it showed that it had not been delivered. Also, I faxed him the official print-out from the post office. Please stick to the facts, they are not in dispute. the sole question is ... how long should I have waited. Answer please >>




If you and I have a traffic accident and it's my fault, I wouldn't pay for your medical bills and car repairs out of my pocket and have my insurance reimburse me - unfortunately however long it takes - you have to wait for my insurance company to pony up.

The mailman who slipped on my ice-covered steps - same thing with my homeowners insurance.

Fletcher - I've been pissed as hell and wanted things done "NOW" too, but the sad fact is there are policies, processes, and procedures that have to take place before things can get resolved, and as upset as we all get - yours just hadn't run its official course yet from the sound of things.

I think you knew you were going to get your money back eventually (Anyone after reading the vouches for Darin should see that), but you wanted it back now, not later. I'm sure your friend that works at the post office could have explained the whole process just the same as the PO rep explained it to Darin which he was trying to abide by. I think an answer of you should have waited just a little bit longer would have shown a happier ending.

Just my .02

Fletcher

StrikeOut ... good argument! Maybe you are right and I should have waited a little longer ... but in IMHO, I thought that I had waited long enough and asked for a refund enough times ... six weeks, two months, indefinitely ... it is a grey area how long one should wait. Especially, when dealing with someone for the first time on eBay.

Fairlaneman

<< <i>how long should I have waited Mr. Feld? >>



Read This....Untill the package was officially declared lost by the POST OFFICE and then untill the paper work had run its course !!

You expected Darin to shoulder all of the responsibility because of a Postal screw up. One sided I would say.

Answer this...If you were the seller would you issue a immediate refund because of a screw up that you had no control of ? If your answer is yes you are quite silly when it comes to Ebay. The bottom line is that Ebay and buying from Dealers is a completely different ball game.

Ken

granddad

How long should someone piss and moan?


Have a Great Day!
Louis