^^Hey look it's the most recent installment of CU's bigger d ick contest! I doubt anyone here gives a rats ax about what you make because I'm sure I don't. I'm 20 years old, in 3 years I'll be at a 6 figure income(low but hey it ain't bad at all for no college!). Do any of you care? Nope, and you should just worry about what's in your own pocket not another mans.
Edited for clarity.
Collecting; Mark Mulder rookies Chipper Jones rookies Orlando Cabrera rookies Lawrence Taylor Sam Huff Lavar Arrington NY Giants NY Yankees NJ Nets NJ Devils 1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards
Larry: Like I said earlier, it is silly to compare or argue about financial status. However, you were obviously wrong regadring your guess that things "are financially tight around my house". The bottom line and back to the topic is that if someone collects Albert Beller or Chris Sabo they obviously don't have much to lose, so they obviously don't care about the financial stability of their collection. However, if someone puts decent money into his collection, he obviously SHOULD care about his collection holding it's value. Once again, this is simply common sense. Rich
However, if someone puts decent money into his collection, he obviously SHOULD care about his collection holding it's value. Once again, this is simply common sense.
<< <i>Larry: Like I said earlier, it is silly to compare or argue about financial status. However, you were obviously wrong regadring your guess that things "are financially tight around my house". The bottom line and back to the topic is that if someone collects Albert Beller or Chris Sabo they obviously don't have much to lose, so they obviously don't care about the financial stability of their collection. However, if someone puts decent money into his collection, he obviously SHOULD care about his collection holding it's value. Once again, this is simply common sense. Rich >>
Its silly to argue financial status and its sillier to argue what and why anyone collects. Everyone collects for their own reasons. Some collect for value, some collect for only the pure enjoyment. Facts are facts, and opinions are like......
... just for the record... I consider my Chris Sabo collection VERY valuable (to me.) I'm willing to bet larryallen73's collection of Larry Allen cards is impressive, and cary's a large value! Will our collections hold thier values??? You better believe it! Does it matter what value anyone else put on our collections?... I bet not. Sometimes, what we do is considered a hobby and not always a business. That's the point Rich... that's the point.
Its silly to argue financial status and its sillier to argue what and why anyone collects. Everyone collects for their own reasons. Some collect for value, some collect for only the pure enjoyment. Facts are facts, and opinions are like...... >>
Seeking inspiration wherever I can....... Question I'd love to see on everyone's CU Profile: "What is your yearly income?" A) I make enough money to be comfortable I make more money than my neighbor, and he's an idiot! C) I make more money than my entire neighborhood, in fact, I just sold all the homes in my entire neighborhood! D) I make more money than God, and therefore I own a PSA 8 or better 1933 Goudey Set
The alternate question would be: "Exactly how big IS yer Johnson?" (collection) A) I am hung like a parakeet (doubtful anyone here will make this choice) I am hung like a rabbit (depends how ya look at it) C) I am hung like my neighbor, who's an idiot, but I hear loud screaming coming from his bedroom window all the time D) I am hung like God and I own a PSA 8 or better 1933 Goudey Set
FANATIC: The fact is that if somebody spent $10,000-100,00 to build up his collection, he either 1)Cares about his collection holding it's value 2)Is a multi-millionaire and doesn't care if he loses between $10,000-1000,00 3) Makes an average to above average salary of $75,000-$1,000,000 and doesn't care about his collection holding it's value which means he needs to get his head examined.
once again, the numbers I listed above are rough estimates and are just used to make my point.
now, there are people who collect Albert Belle or Chris Sabo. these people obviously didn't invest too much money into their collection thus I can understand if they don't care about their collection holding what minimal financial value it has. Rich
Its silly to argue financial status and its sillier to argue what and why anyone collects. Everyone collects for their own reasons. Some collect for value, some collect for only the pure enjoyment. Facts are facts, and opinions are like......
Agreed.
I'm willing to bet larryallen73's collection of Larry Allen cards is impressive, and cary's a large value!
Impressive? Yes! Cost a lot? Yes! Worth a lot? Probably only to me! Probably less Larry Allen collectors than Chris Sabo collectors... but there is nothing I enjoy more than finding a numbered Larry card to further corner the market on his cards! Wait a minute, I spend money on Larry's cards and they don't have a high chance of appreciating (if even holding their only monetary value) but I still buy them with reckless abandon!? Rich told me this makes no sense so I better stop collecting Larry's cards.
Larry: I'll agree with you that it has been fun having this pissing contest. The afternoon has been slower than usual and this debate has helped speed up the time. However, I wish my new buddy (onefast) would not have quit so soon. I was looking forward to debating and exchanging ideas with him! Later for now. Rich
I'm broke, stupid, effeminate, and I collect crap. Anyone want to swap Heritage, Pirates or 1976 Topps baseball?
Collector of 1976 Topps baseball for some stupid reason. Collector of Pittsburgh Pirates cards for a slightly less stupid reason. My Pirates Collection
The state of my mental health is directly proportional to the size of the loupe I use to look at my cards.
I'm putting up the white flag....
Guys - we're all better than this.
We're close to a stalemate - I think the "idealist" collectors out there are not trying to be dogmatic but I would imagine have somehow reached a state of Nirvana.
Most of us are somewhere's between this month's Beckett in our back pocket to there's last winter's copy lying on the floor in the bathroom.
Fortunately, there are no weasels in my industry unlike most baseball card shop owners
yes I see now that you have changed your opinion to 'most' earlier your statemenr could have been read as all.
As fpr your industry not having any weasels, I find that hard to believe. I remember a time I needed something printed (a flyer) and I felt ripped off. The quality was poor and the price was retail. I guess the guy I went to needed to feed his family, pay his rent, and pay other bills.
<< <i>Fortunately, there are no weasels in my industry unlike most baseball card shop owners
yes I see now that you have changed your opinion to 'most' earlier your statemenr could have been read as all.
As fpr your industry not having any weasels, I find that hard to believe. I remember a time I needed something printed (a flyer) and I felt ripped off. The quality was poor and the price was retail. I guess the guy I went to needed to feed his family, pay his rent, and pay other bills.
Steve >>
"A "deal" from a card shop? Highly unlikely if not impossible. Nothing wrong with buying from a card shop, just expect to pay retail or possibly more than retail if they can get it."
I stand by these comments. What's the big deal here Steve?
Let me be even more clear about my feelings towards baseball card shops - I couldn't give a flying f*** if every single baseball card shop went out of business tomorrow. I haven't bought a card from a baseball card shop in at least ten years. I do buy some supplies at a local baseball card shop but I could pick up these supplies on ebay just as well. You want to buy your baseball cards at card shops and pay retail to these weasels, you go right ahead - I'll buy my cards on ebay and at shows.
Frankly, I think most baseball card shop owners hooked to a lie detector machine would admit they are weasels, and might even consider it a compliment - LOL
And there are no weasels in my industry - I don't care if you find that hard to believe - it is a specialized form of printing...not anything like a typical corner printing shop that prints flyers.
<< <i> Most of us are somewhere's between this month's Beckett in our back pocket to there's last winter's copy lying on the floor in the bathroom.
Ya gotta love the passion! mike >>
While some like myself haven't picked up a beckett in over 2 years! lol, I had a few old ones lying around somewheres but I think I lost them when moving around. Oh well, if I like a card and I want it I'll buy it if it's within my budget(which I set super low). Unless it's a card that'll be a centerpiece(Sam Huff rookie for example).
Steve-My pops was in the web printing business(ie: mags, lottos/scratchoffs, etc.) for well over 35 years. He traveled around the world rebuilding/fixing/transporting/setting up presses as well as doing independent work for Fleer, NASA, the US Mint, Hershey, etc. etc.(He was a tool and die by trade). Needless to say atleast in that sector it was full of weasels. It's a very small industry and wherever he goes around the nation he seems to know one guy or another. I guess that's how it is when your one of only a few hundred at most that do what he did for 30+ years. Every business can be crooked, let's face it greed is an instinctive part of human nature.
BTW, I agree with shopowners. I had one good one in my lifetime(yes I'm young, only 20) but because I was going to work there back before he sold it we'd bust boxes and he'd always sell me packs for less than the price shown. I never paid taxes at the shop, and he was an all around cool guy(he was a local professor who taught my brother, so he quasi knew me since my bro also collected). He sold the shop and then I haven't lived near another shop like that. Now I only purchase online and haven't been in a shop in nearly 3 years. Why pay more, and the majority of what I collect isn't going to be in shops around here anyway.
Collecting; Mark Mulder rookies Chipper Jones rookies Orlando Cabrera rookies Lawrence Taylor Sam Huff Lavar Arrington NY Giants NY Yankees NJ Nets NJ Devils 1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards
<< <i> Most of us are somewhere's between this month's Beckett in our back pocket to there's last winter's copy lying on the floor in the bathroom.
Ya gotta love the passion! mike >>
While some like myself haven't picked up a beckett in over 2 years! lol, I had a few old ones lying around somewheres but I think I lost them when moving around. Oh well, if I like a card and I want it I'll buy it if it's within my budget(which I set super low). Unless it's a card that'll be a centerpiece(Sam Huff rookie for example).
Steve-My pops was in the web printing business(ie: mags, lottos/scratchoffs, etc.) for well over 35 years. He traveled around the world rebuilding/fixing/transporting/setting up presses as well as doing independent work for Fleer, NASA, the US Mint, Hershey, etc. etc.(He was a tool and die by trade). Needless to say atleast in that sector it was full of weasels. It's a very small industry and wherever he goes around the nation he seems to know one guy or another. I guess that's how it is when your one of only a few hundred at most that do what he did for 30+ years. Every business can be crooked, let's face it greed is an instinctive part of human nature.
BTW, I agree with shopowners. I had one good one in my lifetime(yes I'm young, only 20) but because I was going to work there back before he sold it we'd bust boxes and he'd always sell me packs for less than the price shown. I never paid taxes at the shop, and he was an all around cool guy(he was a local professor who taught my brother, so he quasi knew me since my bro also collected). He sold the shop and then I haven't lived near another shop like that. Now I only purchase online and haven't been in a shop in nearly 3 years. Why pay more, and the majority of what I collect isn't going to be in shops around here anyway. >>
ToppsCo
First, I think Steve was just trying to make a point.
I just had two bids for a painting job - one wanted 2400$ and the other wanted 1300$ for the same job. And the guy who did it for 1300$ did a great job - we had used him before.
On greed and human nature - I can't argue - I'm in agreement - in that children will act accordingly - but it's the job of parents to correct that and instill character in them. If not done IMO, oft times you wind up with an adult just like you have stated.
Again, I think most people try to be fair and honest.
Mike-I hate painting!!! I just finished remodeling a bathroom in Fairfax and yeesh it's good money(home renovations/remodeling/high end kitchens) but sometimes all those chemicals just leave me with a killer headache.
I know what you mean on the pricing, I'm basically a General Contracting apprentice and my boss is teaching me the ins and outs. Luckily he's very very honest, and he's a perfectionist as well so I'm learning from a real pro. If all goes right I'll keep moving along with him for the next couple of years as I work through college to get my business degree and eventually open my own business. But I understand where your coming from, as my father owned his own business and now I get to see as an adult firsthand how it goes.
Collecting; Mark Mulder rookies Chipper Jones rookies Orlando Cabrera rookies Lawrence Taylor Sam Huff Lavar Arrington NY Giants NY Yankees NJ Nets NJ Devils 1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards
<< <i> Most of us are somewhere's between this month's Beckett in our back pocket to there's last winter's copy lying on the floor in the bathroom.
Ya gotta love the passion! mike >>
While some like myself haven't picked up a beckett in over 2 years! lol, I had a few old ones lying around somewheres but I think I lost them when moving around. Oh well, if I like a card and I want it I'll buy it if it's within my budget(which I set super low). Unless it's a card that'll be a centerpiece(Sam Huff rookie for example).
Steve-My pops was in the web printing business(ie: mags, lottos/scratchoffs, etc.) for well over 35 years. He traveled around the world rebuilding/fixing/transporting/setting up presses as well as doing independent work for Fleer, NASA, the US Mint, Hershey, etc. etc.(He was a tool and die by trade). Needless to say atleast in that sector it was full of weasels. It's a very small industry and wherever he goes around the nation he seems to know one guy or another. I guess that's how it is when your one of only a few hundred at most that do what he did for 30+ years. Every business can be crooked, let's face it greed is an instinctive part of human nature.
BTW, I agree with shopowners. I had one good one in my lifetime(yes I'm young, only 20) but because I was going to work there back before he sold it we'd bust boxes and he'd always sell me packs for less than the price shown. I never paid taxes at the shop, and he was an all around cool guy(he was a local professor who taught my brother, so he quasi knew me since my bro also collected). He sold the shop and then I haven't lived near another shop like that. Now I only purchase online and haven't been in a shop in nearly 3 years. Why pay more, and the majority of what I collect isn't going to be in shops around here anyway. >>
I understand what you're saying. I guess the thing that bugs me the most by far is them ripping off the kids who don't know any better. I remember because I was once a kid and got the wool pulled over my eyes by too many coin and card shop owners who at the time I figured could be trusted. After all they owned a store so they must be trustworthy, right? Wrong!
For example one dealer sold me a proof quarter which turned out to be nothing but a shiny uncirculated coin struck from a newer die - a huge difference in value. I didn't realize it until a few years later when I became more knowledgeable about coins. But I don't forget things like that - I could mention some other stories as well about friend's kids getting ripped off by dealers. As I stated...caveat emptor with these stinkin' weasels.
Just one quick story...I was in a newer card shop last year for some supplies. I played "naive" and asked him about a 62 Mantle he had. I am very, VERY familiar with how PSA grades and I knew basically "exactly" what this card would grade. It was very badly chipped, had other flaws and it was "definitely" a 2 at best in my opinion. Again...playing naive I asked him what this card would grade by PSA. Without hesitation he said a 5. Again...another stinkin' weasel card shop owner.
^^The reason I don't go to cardshops anymore. I understand they have more bills do to the fact it's a brick and mortar business, but until my bottomline goes up, I won't be helping yours. Ya get me?
Collecting; Mark Mulder rookies Chipper Jones rookies Orlando Cabrera rookies Lawrence Taylor Sam Huff Lavar Arrington NY Giants NY Yankees NJ Nets NJ Devils 1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards
<< <i>FANATIC: The fact is that if somebody spent $10,000-100,00 to build up his collection, he either 1)Cares about his collection holding it's value 2)Is a multi-millionaire and doesn't care if he loses between $10,000-1000,00 3) Makes an average to above average salary of $75,000-$1,000,000 and doesn't care about his collection holding it's value which means he needs to get his head examined.
once again, the numbers I listed above are rough estimates and are just used to make my point.
now, there are people who collect Albert Belle or Chris Sabo. these people obviously didn't invest too much money into their collection thus I can understand if they don't care about their collection holding what minimal financial value it has. Rich >>
What are your family photos worth? If somenoe stole them tomorrow, what would you pay to get them back? To me, your family photos are worth about $2. To you I imagine they're worth considerably more. But does that mean that if you spend $5K to have them returned, and couldn't resell them for $5, that you need to get your head checked?
Value is a strange thing, and the same commodity can translate into different monetary values for different people. Moreover, both parties can be rational agents. I don't see why you're so resistant to this idea.
<< <i> Most of us are somewhere's between this month's Beckett in our back pocket to there's last winter's copy lying on the floor in the bathroom.
Ya gotta love the passion! mike >>
While some like myself haven't picked up a beckett in over 2 years! lol, I had a few old ones lying around somewheres but I think I lost them when moving around. Oh well, if I like a card and I want it I'll buy it if it's within my budget(which I set super low). Unless it's a card that'll be a centerpiece(Sam Huff rookie for example).
Steve-My pops was in the web printing business(ie: mags, lottos/scratchoffs, etc.) for well over 35 years. He traveled around the world rebuilding/fixing/transporting/setting up presses as well as doing independent work for Fleer, NASA, the US Mint, Hershey, etc. etc.(He was a tool and die by trade). Needless to say atleast in that sector it was full of weasels. It's a very small industry and wherever he goes around the nation he seems to know one guy or another. I guess that's how it is when your one of only a few hundred at most that do what he did for 30+ years. Every business can be crooked, let's face it greed is an instinctive part of human nature.
BTW, I agree with shopowners. I had one good one in my lifetime(yes I'm young, only 20) but because I was going to work there back before he sold it we'd bust boxes and he'd always sell me packs for less than the price shown. I never paid taxes at the shop, and he was an all around cool guy(he was a local professor who taught my brother, so he quasi knew me since my bro also collected). He sold the shop and then I haven't lived near another shop like that. Now I only purchase online and haven't been in a shop in nearly 3 years. Why pay more, and the majority of what I collect isn't going to be in shops around here anyway. >>
I understand what you're saying. I guess the thing that bugs me the most by far is them ripping off the kids who don't know any better. I remember because I was once a kid and got the wool pulled over my eyes by too many coin and card shop owners who at the time I figured could be trusted. After all they owned a store so they must be trustworthy, right? Wrong!
For example one dealer sold me a proof quarter which turned out to be nothing but a shiny uncirculated coin struck from a newer die - a huge difference in value. I didn't realize it until a few years later when I became more knowledgeable about coins. But I don't forget things like that - I could mention some other stories as well about friend's kids getting ripped off by dealers. As I stated...caveat emptor with these stinkin' weasels.
Just one quick story...I was in a newer card shop last year for some supplies. I played "naive" and asked him about a 62 Mantle he had. I am very, VERY familiar with how PSA grades and I knew basically "exactly" what this card would grade. It was very badly chipped, had other flaws and it was "definitely" a 2 at best in my opinion. Again...playing naive I asked him what this card would grade by PSA. Without hesitation he said a 5. Again...another stinkin' weasel card shop owner.
Steve >>
Oh, just put a cork in your half-assed moral posturing. You don't buy cards at card shops for one reason, and one only-- you can find the same stuff cheaper somewhere else. If you found a PSA 10 1971 Topps Pete Rose in a card shop owned by of one of your 'weasels', and the guy offered to sell it to you for $500, you wouldn't be able to reach for your wallet fast enough- even though that would mean putting $500 in the pocket of an unscrupulous store owner.
<< <i> Most of us are somewhere's between this month's Beckett in our back pocket to there's last winter's copy lying on the floor in the bathroom.
Ya gotta love the passion! mike >>
While some like myself haven't picked up a beckett in over 2 years! lol, I had a few old ones lying around somewheres but I think I lost them when moving around. Oh well, if I like a card and I want it I'll buy it if it's within my budget(which I set super low). Unless it's a card that'll be a centerpiece(Sam Huff rookie for example).
Steve-My pops was in the web printing business(ie: mags, lottos/scratchoffs, etc.) for well over 35 years. He traveled around the world rebuilding/fixing/transporting/setting up presses as well as doing independent work for Fleer, NASA, the US Mint, Hershey, etc. etc.(He was a tool and die by trade). Needless to say atleast in that sector it was full of weasels. It's a very small industry and wherever he goes around the nation he seems to know one guy or another. I guess that's how it is when your one of only a few hundred at most that do what he did for 30+ years. Every business can be crooked, let's face it greed is an instinctive part of human nature.
BTW, I agree with shopowners. I had one good one in my lifetime(yes I'm young, only 20) but because I was going to work there back before he sold it we'd bust boxes and he'd always sell me packs for less than the price shown. I never paid taxes at the shop, and he was an all around cool guy(he was a local professor who taught my brother, so he quasi knew me since my bro also collected). He sold the shop and then I haven't lived near another shop like that. Now I only purchase online and haven't been in a shop in nearly 3 years. Why pay more, and the majority of what I collect isn't going to be in shops around here anyway. >>
I understand what you're saying. I guess the thing that bugs me the most by far is them ripping off the kids who don't know any better. I remember because I was once a kid and got the wool pulled over my eyes by too many coin and card shop owners who at the time I figured could be trusted. After all they owned a store so they must be trustworthy, right? Wrong!
For example one dealer sold me a proof quarter which turned out to be nothing but a shiny uncirculated coin struck from a newer die - a huge difference in value. I didn't realize it until a few years later when I became more knowledgeable about coins. But I don't forget things like that - I could mention some other stories as well about friend's kids getting ripped off by dealers. As I stated...caveat emptor with these stinkin' weasels.
Just one quick story...I was in a newer card shop last year for some supplies. I played "naive" and asked him about a 62 Mantle he had. I am very, VERY familiar with how PSA grades and I knew basically "exactly" what this card would grade. It was very badly chipped, had other flaws and it was "definitely" a 2 at best in my opinion. Again...playing naive I asked him what this card would grade by PSA. Without hesitation he said a 5. Again...another stinkin' weasel card shop owner.
Steve >>
Oh, just put a cork in your half-assed moral posturing. You don't buy cards at card shops for one reason, and one only-- you can find the same stuff cheaper somewhere else. If you found a PSA 10 1971 Topps Pete Rose in a card shop owned by of one of your 'weasels', and the guy offered to sell it to you for $500, you wouldn't be able to reach for your wallet fast enough- even though that would mean putting $500 in the pocket of an unscrupulous store owner. >>
Boo
That was direct! I don't think Steve deserved that?
He was just giving his feelings.
Heck, we've all been messed with by dealers - I have a really nice card I paid 550$ for - that turned out to be touched up.
I dont know if anyone remembers but back when I first joined I had a Rickey Henderson rc that I sent in with my vouchers for joining. I believed the card was a 9 or 10 but came back "un-authentic." It obviously was but I didnt know any better. My girlfriend bought it at a local card shop for my birthday back in '93. No matter what business you are in or invovled with there is always people who just are not right.
<< <i> Most of us are somewhere's between this month's Beckett in our back pocket to there's last winter's copy lying on the floor in the bathroom.
Ya gotta love the passion! mike >>
While some like myself haven't picked up a beckett in over 2 years! lol, I had a few old ones lying around somewheres but I think I lost them when moving around. Oh well, if I like a card and I want it I'll buy it if it's within my budget(which I set super low). Unless it's a card that'll be a centerpiece(Sam Huff rookie for example).
Steve-My pops was in the web printing business(ie: mags, lottos/scratchoffs, etc.) for well over 35 years. He traveled around the world rebuilding/fixing/transporting/setting up presses as well as doing independent work for Fleer, NASA, the US Mint, Hershey, etc. etc.(He was a tool and die by trade). Needless to say atleast in that sector it was full of weasels. It's a very small industry and wherever he goes around the nation he seems to know one guy or another. I guess that's how it is when your one of only a few hundred at most that do what he did for 30+ years. Every business can be crooked, let's face it greed is an instinctive part of human nature.
BTW, I agree with shopowners. I had one good one in my lifetime(yes I'm young, only 20) but because I was going to work there back before he sold it we'd bust boxes and he'd always sell me packs for less than the price shown. I never paid taxes at the shop, and he was an all around cool guy(he was a local professor who taught my brother, so he quasi knew me since my bro also collected). He sold the shop and then I haven't lived near another shop like that. Now I only purchase online and haven't been in a shop in nearly 3 years. Why pay more, and the majority of what I collect isn't going to be in shops around here anyway. >>
I understand what you're saying. I guess the thing that bugs me the most by far is them ripping off the kids who don't know any better. I remember because I was once a kid and got the wool pulled over my eyes by too many coin and card shop owners who at the time I figured could be trusted. After all they owned a store so they must be trustworthy, right? Wrong!
For example one dealer sold me a proof quarter which turned out to be nothing but a shiny uncirculated coin struck from a newer die - a huge difference in value. I didn't realize it until a few years later when I became more knowledgeable about coins. But I don't forget things like that - I could mention some other stories as well about friend's kids getting ripped off by dealers. As I stated...caveat emptor with these stinkin' weasels.
Just one quick story...I was in a newer card shop last year for some supplies. I played "naive" and asked him about a 62 Mantle he had. I am very, VERY familiar with how PSA grades and I knew basically "exactly" what this card would grade. It was very badly chipped, had other flaws and it was "definitely" a 2 at best in my opinion. Again...playing naive I asked him what this card would grade by PSA. Without hesitation he said a 5. Again...another stinkin' weasel card shop owner.
Steve >>
Oh, just put a cork in your half-assed moral posturing. You don't buy cards at card shops for one reason, and one only-- you can find the same stuff cheaper somewhere else. If you found a PSA 10 1971 Topps Pete Rose in a card shop owned by of one of your 'weasels', and the guy offered to sell it to you for $500, you wouldn't be able to reach for your wallet fast enough- even though that would mean putting $500 in the pocket of an unscrupulous store owner. >>
Boo, you are a funny guy. Sometimes you really make me laugh with your dimwitted comments. You often don't "get it" - this isn't just about money, it's about deceipt.
I visited Cooperstown a few summers back and went into all the local card shops there within walking distance of the Hall. These card shop owners should be in jail with their hoards of trimmed, retouched, and altered cards...and trying to pass off the cards as if there were no problems with the cards, as well as overgrading them - this is what being a weasel is all about, and most card shop owners are that way - and you should already know that. Moral posturing? That's your opinion. I'm just telling it like it is.
Last year when I went to Cooperstown I went to all the local card shops and saw the same garbage. Completely overgraded, doctored up cards at outrageous prices. Same goes for Louisville Slugger factory and Museum. I was there a few months ago and they had maybe 200-300 cards on display, half of which were recolored, trimmed, etc. and in vg-ex condition at best selling for PSA 8 prices.
"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." -- Yogi Berra
Boo: Your example on family photos doesn't hold water. Since they do not hold monetary value, I don't have them insured. With this said, I would not "pay" money to get them back. Plus, The memories in my head are more imoprtant than phots. The bottom line is ANYBODY IN THEIR RIGHT MIND doesn't want to lose $10,000-$100,000. I don't care if this money is in the form of cash, bonds, stocks, or baseball cards!!!
Fandago: If I live old enough to retire, I plan on using the money that I don't have time to use now. With this said, I'll save 25% of my card/memorabilia collection for my son to inherit, but I'll sell and spend the rest. Heck, my son and daughter will already make out like a bandit once the sell my house and property.....I figure, why should I not spend some of the money that I worked so hard to make.
Regarding the hobby shop dealer screwing kids: The hobby shop dealer is out to make money, and has his own kids to worry about. I blame the kid's parents for letting him get involved with cards/gambling at a young age! Rich
I stand by these comments. What's the big deal here Steve?
the big deal here Steve is that you are blasting 'most if not all shop owners' as thieves, weasels, etc. I wonder just how you can come to that conclusion. Have you visited most card shops? To make a blanket statement like that is ignorant. many baseball card shop owners play by the rules, work hard and provide a service. Your comparison to ebay is funny, as most collector/dealers there will rip you off in a nanosecond. I bet you believe that when it comes time for you to sell somethng you want TOP DOLLAR, yet when you want to buy you want it at half book. Yet you have no overhead to support that claim, they do. You also said that a lil old lady would come into a shop with a t206 wagner and be offered a dollar. Does that sound reasonable? Do you really think any legitimate card shop owner would do something like that? If you do then you are very cynical. The only place that a card like that would sell for a dollar is on fleabay, prolly from some computer print guy that created a fake!
Stop blasting a whole industry when you really do not have the facts.
Steve
edited to add:
perhaps if you had said 'some dealers' then I would have no problem. Your claim that most if not all is just not accurate and you prolly know it.
as for coin dealers .....................nevermind
<< <i>Boo: Your example on family photos doesn't hold water. Since they do not hold monetary value, I don't have them insured. With this said, I would not "pay" money to get them back. Plus, The memories in my head are more imoprtant than phots. The bottom line is ANYBODY IN THEIR RIGHT MIND doesn't want to lose $10,000-$100,000. I don't care if this money is in the form of cash, bonds, stocks, or baseball cards!!!
Fandago: If I live old enough to retire, I plan on using the money that I don't have time to use now. With this said, I'll save 25% of my card/memorabilia collection for my son to inherit, but I'll sell and spend the rest. Heck, my son and daughter will already make out like a bandit once the sell my house and property.....I figure, why should I not spend some of the money that I worked so hard to make.
Regarding the hobby shop dealer screwing kids: The hobby shop dealer is out to make money, and has his own kids to worry about. I blame the kid's parents for letting him get involved with cards/gambling at a young age! Rich >>
Rich, don't be a dunce--whether YOU would pay or not is obviously irrelevant. The whole point is that many rational people WOULD pay, and pay a lot of money, for things that have little or no monetary value to anyone else out there; mostly for sentimental reasons, although there could be other motivations at work which would persuade people to act this way.
And how do you define 'lose'? I have a pick up truck I paid $14,000 for in 1995. Right now it's worth about $1200. Does this mean I 'lost' $12,800? Of course it doesn't, because I got $12K+ of use out of it. If someone pays $1000 for a baseball card they really, really want, and it drops to $150 in five years, then the real question is whether they got $850 worth of enjoyment out of the card in the five years they've owned it. If they got MORE than $850 dollars worth of pleasure out of it then they're actually ahead.
You can't compare equities to sports cards. If you buy an equity the ONLY reason you're buying it is because you think it will go up in value. If you buy it for any other reason then yes, you are a total moron. But there are other ways for a buyer of a sports card to earn a consumer surplus than through increases in recognized value. Future value can be a factor, and in fact it can also be the ONLY factor, but it's obviously not the only legitimate factor.
<< <i>I stand by these comments. What's the big deal here Steve?
the big deal here Steve is that you are blasting 'most if not all shop owners' as thieves, weasels, etc. I wonder just how you can come to that conclusion. Have you visited most card shops? To make a blanket statement like that is ignorant. many baseball card shop owners play by the rules, work hard and provide a service. Your comparison to ebay is funny, as most collector/dealers there will rip you off in a nanosecond. I bet you believe that when it comes time for you to sell somethng you want TOP DOLLAR, yet when you want to buy you want it at half book. Yet you have no overhead to support that claim, they do. You also said that a lil old lady would come into a shop with a t206 wagner and be offered a dollar. Does that sound reasonable? Do you really think any legitimate card shop owner would do something like that? If you do then you are very cynical. The only place that a card like that would sell for a dollar is on fleabay, prolly from some computer print guy that created a fake!
Stop blasting a whole industry when you really do not have the facts.
Steve
edited to add:
perhaps if you had said 'some dealers' then I would have no problem. Your claim that most if not all is just not accurate and you prolly know it.
as for coin dealers .....................nevermind >>
That distinction, WP, lies well beyond the limits of stevek's mental envelope. Trying to explain to him that because 'x' % of persons in a field are weasels doesn't mean ALL people in said field are weasels is like trying to explain the combustible engine to a Bassett hound. He's just not smart enough to get it.
Other concepts which come into play when discussing card shop business models, such as 'demand elasticity' and 'overhead' are also far beyond his ken.
Last year when I went to Cooperstown I went to all the local card shops and saw the same garbage. Completely overgraded, doctored up cards at outrageous prices. Same goes for Louisville Slugger factory and Museum. I was there a few months ago and they had maybe 200-300 cards on display, half of which were recolored, trimmed, etc. and in vg-ex condition at best selling for PSA 8 prices. >>
Uh, yeah, and last time I went to Tiger stadium they had Tiger jerseys for sale at $80 a piece when these same jerseys are selling on Ebay for $25. So the lesson here is.... Don't buy a transerable commodity at a toursit destination if you're concerned with getting the best price.
Boo: It's obvious that you're the Dunce: With this said, you buy a car for the purpose of getting you around. Before you buy this car you understand that as soon as you drive it off the lot it will lose value and will continue to lose value as time goes on. If you had the chance to buy a card collection for $50,000 but were told that in 2 years it would be worth nothing, my gut feeling is that 95% of the card collecting population would not buy the collection. Furthermore, if you were told that this collection would decrease in price tomorrow, I'll bet that you would wait until tomorrow to purchase it for the cheaper price (money matters).
If you're buying cards for the sole purpose of enjoyment and you can care less if it holds it's value, stick to collecting players like Chris Sabo and Albert Belle as cards for these players won't cost much to acquire. However, anyone in THEIR RIGHT MIND does not want to lose money!
If you're going to make comparisons stop being so stupid by comparing apples to oranges. Rich
<< <i>I stand by these comments. What's the big deal here Steve?
the big deal here Steve is that you are blasting 'most if not all shop owners' as thieves, weasels, etc. I wonder just how you can come to that conclusion. Have you visited most card shops? To make a blanket statement like that is ignorant. many baseball card shop owners play by the rules, work hard and provide a service. Your comparison to ebay is funny, as most collector/dealers there will rip you off in a nanosecond. I bet you believe that when it comes time for you to sell somethng you want TOP DOLLAR, yet when you want to buy you want it at half book. Yet you have no overhead to support that claim, they do. You also said that a lil old lady would come into a shop with a t206 wagner and be offered a dollar. Does that sound reasonable? Do you really think any legitimate card shop owner would do something like that? If you do then you are very cynical. The only place that a card like that would sell for a dollar is on fleabay, prolly from some computer print guy that created a fake!
Stop blasting a whole industry when you really do not have the facts.
Steve
edited to add:
perhaps if you had said 'some dealers' then I would have no problem. Your claim that most if not all is just not accurate and you prolly know it.
as for coin dealers .....................nevermind >>
Come on now Steve...I'm not blasting the "industry"...I'm doing the exact same thing that most of us here do when it comes to ebay and other scams and situations...just warning fellow baseball card collectors, especially newbies, about what to expect when walking into a baseball card shop. It is caveat emptor and you know that. However, I clearly stated earlier that there was nothing wrong with buying from a baseball card shop. I've already stated my opinions about this subject and have nothing further to add, and as always Steve, I respect your point of view.
What confounds me here is that this thread began with a person asking if he got a deal on an 8.00 card. A card signed by a number 1 pitcher that could one day get back to that status too.
of course he did! regardless of what beckett or any other price guide claims that card is worth. 8.00! less then 3 gallons of gas...................................2 cups of starbucks coffee! Heck I tip 8.00 on a 20.00 diner meal. Had he came on here and said he paid 80.00 then some of the posts that i read here would have had some legitimacy <sp>
JMO
Why we sometimes go so far off on such trivial matters confuses the hell out of me.
B/c certain "fellas" on this board get depressed when they look below their bellies. 8 bucks is nothing put pee in a bucket.
Collecting; Mark Mulder rookies Chipper Jones rookies Orlando Cabrera rookies Lawrence Taylor Sam Huff Lavar Arrington NY Giants NY Yankees NJ Nets NJ Devils 1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards
Toppscollector: I agree. However, I'll bet just about every collector WITH A CLEAR MIND would care about spending between $10,000-$100,000 on cards if it all of a sudden it had a resale value of $8. I still can't believe some people can't grasp or agree with this concept. Rich
<< <i>Boo: It's obvious that you're the Dunce: With this said, you buy a car for the purpose of getting you around. Before you buy this car you understand that as soon as you drive it off the lot it will lose value and will continue to lose value as time goes on. If you had the chance to buy a card collection for $50,000 but were told that in 2 years it would be worth nothing, my gut feeling is that 95% of the card collecting population would not buy the collection. Furthermore, if you were told that this collection would decrease in price tomorrow, I'll bet that you would wait until tomorrow to purchase it for the cheaper price (money matters).
If you're buying cards for the sole purpose of enjoyment and you can care less if it holds it's value, stick to collecting players like Chris Sabo and Albert Belle as cards for these players won't cost much to acquire. However, anyone in THEIR RIGHT MIND does not want to lose money!
If you're going to make comparisons stop being so stupid by comparing apples to oranges. Rich >>
Why do I fee like I'm beating my head against a wall? You buy a truck for the purpose of transportation--and you buy a card for the purposes of enjoying it. What you don't get is that everyone buys stuff FOR A REASON, and that reason doesn't necessarily have to involve future appreciation. Look at the guys who get in p**sing wars for low pop commons. Do most of them think those card will still be that hard to find 10 years from now? No. Do they think the card will probably lose value in the future? In many cases, yes-- I bet they do. But they still pay high prices for them for reasons that have nothing to do with appreciating value (they want to be the first guy to complete the set in PSA 9, they want to 'stick it to' a guy who outbid them on the last 9 cards that came up for sale, yada yada).
And in regards to your 'stick to collecting players like Chris Sabo', nonsense, obviously that's dependant on personal finances and individual priorities. If Bill Gates got into card collecting he may decide to put together some incredibly difficult set-- say, 1988 Donruss in BGS 10-- that has almost no chance of increasing in value, since he's the only one who cares about having that set in Pristine grade. Or a guy who makes $55,000 a year but REALLY loves 1988D may try the same thing, and pump tons of money into unopened cases and grading fees, even though he knows he has no chance of recouping the costs. Do either of these guys need to get their heads examined. No, they don't. They just have different ideas about what they'd like to spend their money on then you do.
<< <i>Toppscollector: I agree. However, I'll bet just about every collector WITH A CLEAR MIND would care about spending between $10,000-$100,000 on cards if it all of a sudden it had a resale value of $8. I still can't believe some people can't grasp or agree with this concept. Rich >>
I don't think anyone here would dispute that. But there's a huge difference between saying 'just about every collector with a clear mind' and 'EVERY collector who isn't a moron'.
<< <i>Boo: Well, Well......It's about darn time you are waking up and understanding this simple/common sense concept. Rich >>
Let's go back and look at what you wrote.
Rich G says:
The fact is that if somebody spent $10,000-100,00 to build up his collection, he either 1)Cares about his collection holding it's value 2)Is a multi-millionaire and doesn't care if he loses between $10,000-1000,00 3) Makes an average to above average salary of $75,000-$1,000,000 and doesn't care about his collection holding it's value which means he needs to get his head examined.
Point 3 doesn't stand, for the reasons I've already illustrated. 'Nuff said.
Comments
<< <i>I was raised on a pharm and work out once in a while also so I am in pretty good shape too.... >>
Edited for clarity.
Mark Mulder rookies
Chipper Jones rookies
Orlando Cabrera rookies
Lawrence Taylor
Sam Huff
Lavar Arrington
NY Giants
NY Yankees
NJ Nets
NJ Devils
1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards
Looking for Topps rookies as well.
References:
GregM13
VintageJeff
Like I said earlier, it is silly to compare or argue about financial status. However, you were obviously wrong regadring your guess that things "are financially tight around my house". The bottom line and back to the topic is that if someone collects Albert Beller or Chris Sabo they obviously don't have much to lose, so they obviously don't care about the financial stability of their collection. However, if someone puts decent money into his collection, he obviously SHOULD care about his collection holding it's value. Once again, this is simply common sense.
Rich
Says YOU. Thank you for YOUR opinion.
<< <i>Larry:
Like I said earlier, it is silly to compare or argue about financial status. However, you were obviously wrong regadring your guess that things "are financially tight around my house". The bottom line and back to the topic is that if someone collects Albert Beller or Chris Sabo they obviously don't have much to lose, so they obviously don't care about the financial stability of their collection. However, if someone puts decent money into his collection, he obviously SHOULD care about his collection holding it's value. Once again, this is simply common sense.
Rich >>
Its silly to argue financial status and its sillier to argue what and why anyone collects. Everyone collects for their own reasons. Some collect for value, some collect for only the pure enjoyment. Facts are facts, and opinions are like......
I'm willing to bet larryallen73's collection of Larry Allen cards is impressive, and cary's a large value!
Will our collections hold thier values??? You better believe it! Does it matter what value anyone else
put on our collections?... I bet not. Sometimes, what we do is considered a hobby and not always a business.
That's the point Rich... that's the point.
ALWAYS Looking for Chris Sabo cards!
Seeking inspiration wherever I can.......
Question I'd love to see on everyone's CU Profile: "What is your yearly income?"
A) I make enough money to be comfortable
C) I make more money than my entire neighborhood, in fact, I just sold all the homes in my entire neighborhood!
D) I make more money than God, and therefore I own a PSA 8 or better 1933 Goudey Set
The alternate question would be: "Exactly how big IS yer Johnson?" (collection)
A) I am hung like a parakeet (doubtful anyone here will make this choice)
C) I am hung like my neighbor, who's an idiot, but I hear loud screaming coming from his bedroom window all the time
D) I am hung like God and I own a PSA 8 or better 1933 Goudey Set
Does anybody truly care how well off we all are?
The fact is that if somebody spent $10,000-100,00 to build up his collection, he either
1)Cares about his collection holding it's value
2)Is a multi-millionaire and doesn't care if he loses between $10,000-1000,00
3) Makes an average to above average salary of $75,000-$1,000,000 and doesn't care about his collection holding it's value which means he needs to get his head examined.
once again, the numbers I listed above are rough estimates and are just used to make my point.
now, there are people who collect Albert Belle or Chris Sabo. these people obviously didn't invest too much money into their collection thus I can understand if they don't care about their collection holding what minimal financial value it has.
Rich
Agreed.
I'm willing to bet larryallen73's collection of Larry Allen cards is impressive, and cary's a large value!
Impressive? Yes! Cost a lot? Yes! Worth a lot? Probably only to me! Probably less Larry Allen collectors than Chris Sabo collectors... but there is nothing I enjoy more than finding a numbered Larry card to further corner the market on his cards!
This thread must stop, Rich has spoken. It's been fun having this little pissing contest but I need to go have my head examined now.
I'll agree with you that it has been fun having this pissing contest. The afternoon has been slower than usual and this debate has helped speed up the time. However, I wish my new buddy (onefast) would not have quit so soon. I was looking forward to debating and exchanging ideas with him!
Later for now.
Rich
KIDDING!
Collector of Pittsburgh Pirates cards for a slightly less stupid reason.
My Pirates Collection
The state of my mental health is directly proportional to the size of the loupe I use to look at my cards.
I'm putting up the white flag....
Guys - we're all better than this.
We're close to a stalemate - I think the "idealist" collectors out there are not trying to be dogmatic but I would imagine have somehow reached a state of Nirvana.
Most of us are somewhere's between this month's Beckett in our back pocket to there's last winter's copy lying on the floor in the bathroom.
Ya gotta love the passion!
mike
yes I see now that you have changed your opinion to 'most'
earlier your statemenr could have been read as all.
As fpr your industry not having any weasels, I find that hard to believe. I remember a time I needed something printed (a flyer) and I felt ripped off. The quality was poor and the price was retail. I guess the guy I went to needed to feed his family, pay his rent, and pay other bills.
Steve
<< <i>Fortunately, there are no weasels in my industry unlike most baseball card shop owners
yes I see now that you have changed your opinion to 'most'
earlier your statemenr could have been read as all.
As fpr your industry not having any weasels, I find that hard to believe. I remember a time I needed something printed (a flyer) and I felt ripped off. The quality was poor and the price was retail. I guess the guy I went to needed to feed his family, pay his rent, and pay other bills.
Steve >>
"A "deal" from a card shop? Highly unlikely if not impossible. Nothing wrong with buying from a card shop, just expect to pay retail or possibly more than retail if they can get it."
I stand by these comments. What's the big deal here Steve?
Let me be even more clear about my feelings towards baseball card shops - I couldn't give a flying f*** if every single baseball card shop went out of business tomorrow. I haven't bought a card from a baseball card shop in at least ten years. I do buy some supplies at a local baseball card shop but I could pick up these supplies on ebay just as well. You want to buy your baseball cards at card shops and pay retail to these weasels, you go right ahead - I'll buy my cards on ebay and at shows.
Frankly, I think most baseball card shop owners hooked to a lie detector machine would admit they are weasels, and might even consider it a compliment - LOL
And there are no weasels in my industry - I don't care if you find that hard to believe - it is a specialized form of printing...not anything like a typical corner printing shop that prints flyers.
Steve
<< <i>
Most of us are somewhere's between this month's Beckett in our back pocket to there's last winter's copy lying on the floor in the bathroom.
Ya gotta love the passion!
mike >>
While some like myself haven't picked up a beckett in over 2 years! lol, I had a few old ones lying around somewheres but I think I lost them when moving around. Oh well, if I like a card and I want it I'll buy it if it's within my budget(which I set super low). Unless it's a card that'll be a centerpiece(Sam Huff rookie for example).
Steve-My pops was in the web printing business(ie: mags, lottos/scratchoffs, etc.) for well over 35 years. He traveled around the world rebuilding/fixing/transporting/setting up presses as well as doing independent work for Fleer, NASA, the US Mint, Hershey, etc. etc.(He was a tool and die by trade). Needless to say atleast in that sector it was full of weasels. It's a very small industry and wherever he goes around the nation he seems to know one guy or another. I guess that's how it is when your one of only a few hundred at most that do what he did for 30+ years. Every business can be crooked, let's face it greed is an instinctive part of human nature.
BTW, I agree with shopowners. I had one good one in my lifetime(yes I'm young, only 20) but because I was going to work there back before he sold it we'd bust boxes and he'd always sell me packs for less than the price shown. I never paid taxes at the shop, and he was an all around cool guy(he was a local professor who taught my brother, so he quasi knew me since my bro also collected). He sold the shop and then I haven't lived near another shop like that. Now I only purchase online and haven't been in a shop in nearly 3 years. Why pay more, and the majority of what I collect isn't going to be in shops around here anyway.
Mark Mulder rookies
Chipper Jones rookies
Orlando Cabrera rookies
Lawrence Taylor
Sam Huff
Lavar Arrington
NY Giants
NY Yankees
NJ Nets
NJ Devils
1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards
Looking for Topps rookies as well.
References:
GregM13
VintageJeff
<< <i>
<< <i>
Most of us are somewhere's between this month's Beckett in our back pocket to there's last winter's copy lying on the floor in the bathroom.
Ya gotta love the passion!
mike >>
While some like myself haven't picked up a beckett in over 2 years! lol, I had a few old ones lying around somewheres but I think I lost them when moving around. Oh well, if I like a card and I want it I'll buy it if it's within my budget(which I set super low). Unless it's a card that'll be a centerpiece(Sam Huff rookie for example).
Steve-My pops was in the web printing business(ie: mags, lottos/scratchoffs, etc.) for well over 35 years. He traveled around the world rebuilding/fixing/transporting/setting up presses as well as doing independent work for Fleer, NASA, the US Mint, Hershey, etc. etc.(He was a tool and die by trade). Needless to say atleast in that sector it was full of weasels. It's a very small industry and wherever he goes around the nation he seems to know one guy or another. I guess that's how it is when your one of only a few hundred at most that do what he did for 30+ years. Every business can be crooked, let's face it greed is an instinctive part of human nature.
BTW, I agree with shopowners. I had one good one in my lifetime(yes I'm young, only 20) but because I was going to work there back before he sold it we'd bust boxes and he'd always sell me packs for less than the price shown. I never paid taxes at the shop, and he was an all around cool guy(he was a local professor who taught my brother, so he quasi knew me since my bro also collected). He sold the shop and then I haven't lived near another shop like that. Now I only purchase online and haven't been in a shop in nearly 3 years. Why pay more, and the majority of what I collect isn't going to be in shops around here anyway. >>
ToppsCo
First, I think Steve was just trying to make a point.
I just had two bids for a painting job - one wanted 2400$ and the other wanted 1300$ for the same job.
And the guy who did it for 1300$ did a great job - we had used him before.
On greed and human nature - I can't argue - I'm in agreement - in that children will act accordingly - but
it's the job of parents to correct that and instill character in them. If not done IMO, oft times you wind up with an adult just like you have stated.
Again, I think most people try to be fair and honest.
mike
I know what you mean on the pricing, I'm basically a General Contracting apprentice and my boss is teaching me the ins and outs. Luckily he's very very honest, and he's a perfectionist as well so I'm learning from a real pro. If all goes right I'll keep moving along with him for the next couple of years as I work through college to get my business degree and eventually open my own business. But I understand where your coming from, as my father owned his own business and now I get to see as an adult firsthand how it goes.
Mark Mulder rookies
Chipper Jones rookies
Orlando Cabrera rookies
Lawrence Taylor
Sam Huff
Lavar Arrington
NY Giants
NY Yankees
NJ Nets
NJ Devils
1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards
Looking for Topps rookies as well.
References:
GregM13
VintageJeff
<< <i>
<< <i>
Most of us are somewhere's between this month's Beckett in our back pocket to there's last winter's copy lying on the floor in the bathroom.
Ya gotta love the passion!
mike >>
While some like myself haven't picked up a beckett in over 2 years! lol, I had a few old ones lying around somewheres but I think I lost them when moving around. Oh well, if I like a card and I want it I'll buy it if it's within my budget(which I set super low). Unless it's a card that'll be a centerpiece(Sam Huff rookie for example).
Steve-My pops was in the web printing business(ie: mags, lottos/scratchoffs, etc.) for well over 35 years. He traveled around the world rebuilding/fixing/transporting/setting up presses as well as doing independent work for Fleer, NASA, the US Mint, Hershey, etc. etc.(He was a tool and die by trade). Needless to say atleast in that sector it was full of weasels. It's a very small industry and wherever he goes around the nation he seems to know one guy or another. I guess that's how it is when your one of only a few hundred at most that do what he did for 30+ years. Every business can be crooked, let's face it greed is an instinctive part of human nature.
BTW, I agree with shopowners. I had one good one in my lifetime(yes I'm young, only 20) but because I was going to work there back before he sold it we'd bust boxes and he'd always sell me packs for less than the price shown. I never paid taxes at the shop, and he was an all around cool guy(he was a local professor who taught my brother, so he quasi knew me since my bro also collected). He sold the shop and then I haven't lived near another shop like that. Now I only purchase online and haven't been in a shop in nearly 3 years. Why pay more, and the majority of what I collect isn't going to be in shops around here anyway. >>
I understand what you're saying. I guess the thing that bugs me the most by far is them ripping off the kids who don't know any better. I remember because I was once a kid and got the wool pulled over my eyes by too many coin and card shop owners who at the time I figured could be trusted. After all they owned a store so they must be trustworthy, right? Wrong!
For example one dealer sold me a proof quarter which turned out to be nothing but a shiny uncirculated coin struck from a newer die - a huge difference in value. I didn't realize it until a few years later when I became more knowledgeable about coins. But I don't forget things like that - I could mention some other stories as well about friend's kids getting ripped off by dealers. As I stated...caveat emptor with these stinkin' weasels.
Just one quick story...I was in a newer card shop last year for some supplies. I played "naive" and asked him about a 62 Mantle he had. I am very, VERY familiar with how PSA grades and I knew basically "exactly" what this card would grade. It was very badly chipped, had other flaws and it was "definitely" a 2 at best in my opinion. Again...playing naive I asked him what this card would grade by PSA. Without hesitation he said a 5. Again...another stinkin' weasel card shop owner.
Steve
Mark Mulder rookies
Chipper Jones rookies
Orlando Cabrera rookies
Lawrence Taylor
Sam Huff
Lavar Arrington
NY Giants
NY Yankees
NJ Nets
NJ Devils
1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards
Looking for Topps rookies as well.
References:
GregM13
VintageJeff
<< <i>FANATIC:
The fact is that if somebody spent $10,000-100,00 to build up his collection, he either
1)Cares about his collection holding it's value
2)Is a multi-millionaire and doesn't care if he loses between $10,000-1000,00
3) Makes an average to above average salary of $75,000-$1,000,000 and doesn't care about his collection holding it's value which means he needs to get his head examined.
once again, the numbers I listed above are rough estimates and are just used to make my point.
now, there are people who collect Albert Belle or Chris Sabo. these people obviously didn't invest too much money into their collection thus I can understand if they don't care about their collection holding what minimal financial value it has.
Rich >>
What are your family photos worth? If somenoe stole them tomorrow, what would you pay to get them back? To me, your family photos are worth about $2. To you I imagine they're worth considerably more. But does that mean that if you spend $5K to have them returned, and couldn't resell them for $5, that you need to get your head checked?
Value is a strange thing, and the same commodity can translate into different monetary values for different people. Moreover, both parties can be rational agents. I don't see why you're so resistant to this idea.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
Most of us are somewhere's between this month's Beckett in our back pocket to there's last winter's copy lying on the floor in the bathroom.
Ya gotta love the passion!
mike >>
While some like myself haven't picked up a beckett in over 2 years! lol, I had a few old ones lying around somewheres but I think I lost them when moving around. Oh well, if I like a card and I want it I'll buy it if it's within my budget(which I set super low). Unless it's a card that'll be a centerpiece(Sam Huff rookie for example).
Steve-My pops was in the web printing business(ie: mags, lottos/scratchoffs, etc.) for well over 35 years. He traveled around the world rebuilding/fixing/transporting/setting up presses as well as doing independent work for Fleer, NASA, the US Mint, Hershey, etc. etc.(He was a tool and die by trade). Needless to say atleast in that sector it was full of weasels. It's a very small industry and wherever he goes around the nation he seems to know one guy or another. I guess that's how it is when your one of only a few hundred at most that do what he did for 30+ years. Every business can be crooked, let's face it greed is an instinctive part of human nature.
BTW, I agree with shopowners. I had one good one in my lifetime(yes I'm young, only 20) but because I was going to work there back before he sold it we'd bust boxes and he'd always sell me packs for less than the price shown. I never paid taxes at the shop, and he was an all around cool guy(he was a local professor who taught my brother, so he quasi knew me since my bro also collected). He sold the shop and then I haven't lived near another shop like that. Now I only purchase online and haven't been in a shop in nearly 3 years. Why pay more, and the majority of what I collect isn't going to be in shops around here anyway. >>
I understand what you're saying. I guess the thing that bugs me the most by far is them ripping off the kids who don't know any better. I remember because I was once a kid and got the wool pulled over my eyes by too many coin and card shop owners who at the time I figured could be trusted. After all they owned a store so they must be trustworthy, right? Wrong!
For example one dealer sold me a proof quarter which turned out to be nothing but a shiny uncirculated coin struck from a newer die - a huge difference in value. I didn't realize it until a few years later when I became more knowledgeable about coins. But I don't forget things like that - I could mention some other stories as well about friend's kids getting ripped off by dealers. As I stated...caveat emptor with these stinkin' weasels.
Just one quick story...I was in a newer card shop last year for some supplies. I played "naive" and asked him about a 62 Mantle he had. I am very, VERY familiar with how PSA grades and I knew basically "exactly" what this card would grade. It was very badly chipped, had other flaws and it was "definitely" a 2 at best in my opinion. Again...playing naive I asked him what this card would grade by PSA. Without hesitation he said a 5. Again...another stinkin' weasel card shop owner.
Steve >>
Oh, just put a cork in your half-assed moral posturing. You don't buy cards at card shops for one reason, and one only-- you can find the same stuff cheaper somewhere else. If you found a PSA 10 1971 Topps Pete Rose in a card shop owned by of one of your 'weasels', and the guy offered to sell it to you for $500, you wouldn't be able to reach for your wallet fast enough- even though that would mean putting $500 in the pocket of an unscrupulous store owner.
<< <i>I guess the thing that bugs me the most by far is them ripping off the kids who don't know any better. >>
Steve
Some have an "equal opportunity" ethic...
They'll rip off adult too!
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Most of us are somewhere's between this month's Beckett in our back pocket to there's last winter's copy lying on the floor in the bathroom.
Ya gotta love the passion!
mike >>
While some like myself haven't picked up a beckett in over 2 years! lol, I had a few old ones lying around somewheres but I think I lost them when moving around. Oh well, if I like a card and I want it I'll buy it if it's within my budget(which I set super low). Unless it's a card that'll be a centerpiece(Sam Huff rookie for example).
Steve-My pops was in the web printing business(ie: mags, lottos/scratchoffs, etc.) for well over 35 years. He traveled around the world rebuilding/fixing/transporting/setting up presses as well as doing independent work for Fleer, NASA, the US Mint, Hershey, etc. etc.(He was a tool and die by trade). Needless to say atleast in that sector it was full of weasels. It's a very small industry and wherever he goes around the nation he seems to know one guy or another. I guess that's how it is when your one of only a few hundred at most that do what he did for 30+ years. Every business can be crooked, let's face it greed is an instinctive part of human nature.
BTW, I agree with shopowners. I had one good one in my lifetime(yes I'm young, only 20) but because I was going to work there back before he sold it we'd bust boxes and he'd always sell me packs for less than the price shown. I never paid taxes at the shop, and he was an all around cool guy(he was a local professor who taught my brother, so he quasi knew me since my bro also collected). He sold the shop and then I haven't lived near another shop like that. Now I only purchase online and haven't been in a shop in nearly 3 years. Why pay more, and the majority of what I collect isn't going to be in shops around here anyway. >>
I understand what you're saying. I guess the thing that bugs me the most by far is them ripping off the kids who don't know any better. I remember because I was once a kid and got the wool pulled over my eyes by too many coin and card shop owners who at the time I figured could be trusted. After all they owned a store so they must be trustworthy, right? Wrong!
For example one dealer sold me a proof quarter which turned out to be nothing but a shiny uncirculated coin struck from a newer die - a huge difference in value. I didn't realize it until a few years later when I became more knowledgeable about coins. But I don't forget things like that - I could mention some other stories as well about friend's kids getting ripped off by dealers. As I stated...caveat emptor with these stinkin' weasels.
Just one quick story...I was in a newer card shop last year for some supplies. I played "naive" and asked him about a 62 Mantle he had. I am very, VERY familiar with how PSA grades and I knew basically "exactly" what this card would grade. It was very badly chipped, had other flaws and it was "definitely" a 2 at best in my opinion. Again...playing naive I asked him what this card would grade by PSA. Without hesitation he said a 5. Again...another stinkin' weasel card shop owner.
Steve >>
Oh, just put a cork in your half-assed moral posturing. You don't buy cards at card shops for one reason, and one only-- you can find the same stuff cheaper somewhere else. If you found a PSA 10 1971 Topps Pete Rose in a card shop owned by of one of your 'weasels', and the guy offered to sell it to you for $500, you wouldn't be able to reach for your wallet fast enough- even though that would mean putting $500 in the pocket of an unscrupulous store owner. >>
Boo
That was direct! I don't think Steve deserved that?
He was just giving his feelings.
Heck, we've all been messed with by dealers - I have a really nice card I paid 550$ for - that turned out to be touched up.
mike
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
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Most of us are somewhere's between this month's Beckett in our back pocket to there's last winter's copy lying on the floor in the bathroom.
Ya gotta love the passion!
mike >>
While some like myself haven't picked up a beckett in over 2 years! lol, I had a few old ones lying around somewheres but I think I lost them when moving around. Oh well, if I like a card and I want it I'll buy it if it's within my budget(which I set super low). Unless it's a card that'll be a centerpiece(Sam Huff rookie for example).
Steve-My pops was in the web printing business(ie: mags, lottos/scratchoffs, etc.) for well over 35 years. He traveled around the world rebuilding/fixing/transporting/setting up presses as well as doing independent work for Fleer, NASA, the US Mint, Hershey, etc. etc.(He was a tool and die by trade). Needless to say atleast in that sector it was full of weasels. It's a very small industry and wherever he goes around the nation he seems to know one guy or another. I guess that's how it is when your one of only a few hundred at most that do what he did for 30+ years. Every business can be crooked, let's face it greed is an instinctive part of human nature.
BTW, I agree with shopowners. I had one good one in my lifetime(yes I'm young, only 20) but because I was going to work there back before he sold it we'd bust boxes and he'd always sell me packs for less than the price shown. I never paid taxes at the shop, and he was an all around cool guy(he was a local professor who taught my brother, so he quasi knew me since my bro also collected). He sold the shop and then I haven't lived near another shop like that. Now I only purchase online and haven't been in a shop in nearly 3 years. Why pay more, and the majority of what I collect isn't going to be in shops around here anyway. >>
I understand what you're saying. I guess the thing that bugs me the most by far is them ripping off the kids who don't know any better. I remember because I was once a kid and got the wool pulled over my eyes by too many coin and card shop owners who at the time I figured could be trusted. After all they owned a store so they must be trustworthy, right? Wrong!
For example one dealer sold me a proof quarter which turned out to be nothing but a shiny uncirculated coin struck from a newer die - a huge difference in value. I didn't realize it until a few years later when I became more knowledgeable about coins. But I don't forget things like that - I could mention some other stories as well about friend's kids getting ripped off by dealers. As I stated...caveat emptor with these stinkin' weasels.
Just one quick story...I was in a newer card shop last year for some supplies. I played "naive" and asked him about a 62 Mantle he had. I am very, VERY familiar with how PSA grades and I knew basically "exactly" what this card would grade. It was very badly chipped, had other flaws and it was "definitely" a 2 at best in my opinion. Again...playing naive I asked him what this card would grade by PSA. Without hesitation he said a 5. Again...another stinkin' weasel card shop owner.
Steve >>
Oh, just put a cork in your half-assed moral posturing. You don't buy cards at card shops for one reason, and one only-- you can find the same stuff cheaper somewhere else. If you found a PSA 10 1971 Topps Pete Rose in a card shop owned by of one of your 'weasels', and the guy offered to sell it to you for $500, you wouldn't be able to reach for your wallet fast enough- even though that would mean putting $500 in the pocket of an unscrupulous store owner. >>
Boo, you are a funny guy. Sometimes you really make me laugh with your dimwitted comments. You often don't "get it" - this isn't just about money, it's about deceipt.
I visited Cooperstown a few summers back and went into all the local card shops there within walking distance of the Hall. These card shop owners should be in jail with their hoards of trimmed, retouched, and altered cards...and trying to pass off the cards as if there were no problems with the cards, as well as overgrading them - this is what being a weasel is all about, and most card shop owners are that way - and you should already know that. Moral posturing? That's your opinion. I'm just telling it like it is.
Steve
Last year when I went to Cooperstown I went to all the local card shops and saw the same garbage. Completely overgraded, doctored up cards at outrageous prices. Same goes for Louisville Slugger factory and Museum. I was there a few months ago and they had maybe 200-300 cards on display, half of which were recolored, trimmed, etc. and in vg-ex condition at best selling for PSA 8 prices.
-- Yogi Berra
i heard THEMAN34 passed away, is this true?
Your example on family photos doesn't hold water. Since they do not hold monetary value, I don't have them insured. With this said, I would not "pay" money to get them back. Plus, The memories in my head are more imoprtant than phots. The bottom line is ANYBODY IN THEIR RIGHT MIND doesn't want to lose $10,000-$100,000. I don't care if this money is in the form of cash, bonds, stocks, or baseball cards!!!
Fandago:
If I live old enough to retire, I plan on using the money that I don't have time to use now. With this said, I'll save 25% of my card/memorabilia collection for my son to inherit, but I'll sell and spend the rest. Heck, my son and daughter will already make out like a bandit once the sell my house and property.....I figure, why should I not spend some of the money that I worked so hard to make.
Regarding the hobby shop dealer screwing kids:
The hobby shop dealer is out to make money, and has his own kids to worry about. I blame the kid's parents for letting him get involved with cards/gambling at a young age!
Rich
the big deal here Steve is that you are blasting 'most if not all shop owners' as thieves, weasels, etc. I wonder just how you can come to that conclusion. Have you visited most card shops? To make a blanket statement like that is ignorant. many baseball card shop owners play by the rules, work hard and provide a service. Your comparison to ebay is funny, as most collector/dealers there will rip you off in a nanosecond. I bet you believe that when it comes time for you to sell somethng you want TOP DOLLAR, yet when you want to buy you want it at half book. Yet you have no overhead to support that claim, they do. You also said that a lil old lady would come into a shop with a t206 wagner and be offered a dollar. Does that sound reasonable? Do you really think any legitimate card shop owner would do something like that? If you do then you are very cynical. The only place that a card like that would sell for a dollar is on fleabay, prolly from some computer print guy that created a fake!
Stop blasting a whole industry when you really do not have the facts.
Steve
edited to add:
perhaps if you had said 'some dealers' then I would have no problem. Your claim that most if not all is just not accurate and you prolly know it.
as for coin dealers .....................nevermind
<< <i>Boo:
Your example on family photos doesn't hold water. Since they do not hold monetary value, I don't have them insured. With this said, I would not "pay" money to get them back. Plus, The memories in my head are more imoprtant than phots. The bottom line is ANYBODY IN THEIR RIGHT MIND doesn't want to lose $10,000-$100,000. I don't care if this money is in the form of cash, bonds, stocks, or baseball cards!!!
Fandago:
If I live old enough to retire, I plan on using the money that I don't have time to use now. With this said, I'll save 25% of my card/memorabilia collection for my son to inherit, but I'll sell and spend the rest. Heck, my son and daughter will already make out like a bandit once the sell my house and property.....I figure, why should I not spend some of the money that I worked so hard to make.
Regarding the hobby shop dealer screwing kids:
The hobby shop dealer is out to make money, and has his own kids to worry about. I blame the kid's parents for letting him get involved with cards/gambling at a young age!
Rich >>
Rich, don't be a dunce--whether YOU would pay or not is obviously irrelevant. The whole point is that many rational people WOULD pay, and pay a lot of money, for things that have little or no monetary value to anyone else out there; mostly for sentimental reasons, although there could be other motivations at work which would persuade people to act this way.
And how do you define 'lose'? I have a pick up truck I paid $14,000 for in 1995. Right now it's worth about $1200. Does this mean I 'lost' $12,800? Of course it doesn't, because I got $12K+ of use out of it. If someone pays $1000 for a baseball card they really, really want, and it drops to $150 in five years, then the real question is whether they got $850 worth of enjoyment out of the card in the five years they've owned it. If they got MORE than $850 dollars worth of pleasure out of it then they're actually ahead.
You can't compare equities to sports cards. If you buy an equity the ONLY reason you're buying it is because you think it will go up in value. If you buy it for any other reason then yes, you are a total moron. But there are other ways for a buyer of a sports card to earn a consumer surplus than through increases in recognized value. Future value can be a factor, and in fact it can also be the ONLY factor, but it's obviously not the only legitimate factor.
<< <i>I stand by these comments. What's the big deal here Steve?
the big deal here Steve is that you are blasting 'most if not all shop owners' as thieves, weasels, etc. I wonder just how you can come to that conclusion. Have you visited most card shops? To make a blanket statement like that is ignorant. many baseball card shop owners play by the rules, work hard and provide a service. Your comparison to ebay is funny, as most collector/dealers there will rip you off in a nanosecond. I bet you believe that when it comes time for you to sell somethng you want TOP DOLLAR, yet when you want to buy you want it at half book. Yet you have no overhead to support that claim, they do. You also said that a lil old lady would come into a shop with a t206 wagner and be offered a dollar. Does that sound reasonable? Do you really think any legitimate card shop owner would do something like that? If you do then you are very cynical. The only place that a card like that would sell for a dollar is on fleabay, prolly from some computer print guy that created a fake!
Stop blasting a whole industry when you really do not have the facts.
Steve
edited to add:
perhaps if you had said 'some dealers' then I would have no problem. Your claim that most if not all is just not accurate and you prolly know it.
as for coin dealers .....................nevermind >>
That distinction, WP, lies well beyond the limits of stevek's mental envelope. Trying to explain to him that because 'x' % of persons in a field are weasels doesn't mean ALL people in said field are weasels is like trying to explain the combustible engine to a Bassett hound. He's just not smart enough to get it.
Other concepts which come into play when discussing card shop business models, such as 'demand elasticity' and 'overhead' are also far beyond his ken.
<< <i>Steve,
Last year when I went to Cooperstown I went to all the local card shops and saw the same garbage. Completely overgraded, doctored up cards at outrageous prices. Same goes for Louisville Slugger factory and Museum. I was there a few months ago and they had maybe 200-300 cards on display, half of which were recolored, trimmed, etc. and in vg-ex condition at best selling for PSA 8 prices. >>
Uh, yeah, and last time I went to Tiger stadium they had Tiger jerseys for sale at $80 a piece when these same jerseys are selling on Ebay for $25. So the lesson here is.... Don't buy a transerable commodity at a toursit destination if you're concerned with getting the best price.
It's obvious that you're the Dunce:
With this said, you buy a car for the purpose of getting you around. Before you buy this car you understand that as soon as you drive it off the lot it will lose value and will continue to lose value as time goes on. If you had the chance to buy a card collection for $50,000 but were told that in 2 years it would be worth nothing, my gut feeling is that 95% of the card collecting population would not buy the collection. Furthermore, if you were told that this collection would decrease in price tomorrow, I'll bet that you would wait until tomorrow to purchase it for the cheaper price (money matters).
If you're buying cards for the sole purpose of enjoyment and you can care less if it holds it's value, stick to collecting players like Chris Sabo and Albert Belle as cards for these players won't cost much to acquire. However, anyone in THEIR RIGHT MIND does not want to lose money!
If you're going to make comparisons stop being so stupid by comparing apples to oranges.
Rich
<< <i>I stand by these comments. What's the big deal here Steve?
the big deal here Steve is that you are blasting 'most if not all shop owners' as thieves, weasels, etc. I wonder just how you can come to that conclusion. Have you visited most card shops? To make a blanket statement like that is ignorant. many baseball card shop owners play by the rules, work hard and provide a service. Your comparison to ebay is funny, as most collector/dealers there will rip you off in a nanosecond. I bet you believe that when it comes time for you to sell somethng you want TOP DOLLAR, yet when you want to buy you want it at half book. Yet you have no overhead to support that claim, they do. You also said that a lil old lady would come into a shop with a t206 wagner and be offered a dollar. Does that sound reasonable? Do you really think any legitimate card shop owner would do something like that? If you do then you are very cynical. The only place that a card like that would sell for a dollar is on fleabay, prolly from some computer print guy that created a fake!
Stop blasting a whole industry when you really do not have the facts.
Steve
edited to add:
perhaps if you had said 'some dealers' then I would have no problem. Your claim that most if not all is just not accurate and you prolly know it.
as for coin dealers .....................nevermind >>
Come on now Steve...I'm not blasting the "industry"...I'm doing the exact same thing that most of us here do when it comes to ebay and other scams and situations...just warning fellow baseball card collectors, especially newbies, about what to expect when walking into a baseball card shop. It is caveat emptor and you know that. However, I clearly stated earlier that there was nothing wrong with buying from a baseball card shop. I've already stated my opinions about this subject and have nothing further to add, and as always Steve, I respect your point of view.
Steve
<< <i>If I live old enough to retire, I plan on using the money that I don't have time to use now >>
Rich
I have the time, I have the place and I'm up for adoption.
of course he did! regardless of what beckett or any other price guide claims that card is worth. 8.00! less then 3 gallons of gas...................................2 cups of starbucks coffee! Heck I tip 8.00 on a 20.00 diner meal. Had he came on here and said he paid 80.00 then some of the posts that i read here would have had some legitimacy <sp>
JMO
Why we sometimes go so far off on such trivial matters confuses the hell out of me.
Steve
Mark Mulder rookies
Chipper Jones rookies
Orlando Cabrera rookies
Lawrence Taylor
Sam Huff
Lavar Arrington
NY Giants
NY Yankees
NJ Nets
NJ Devils
1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards
Looking for Topps rookies as well.
References:
GregM13
VintageJeff
I agree. However, I'll bet just about every collector WITH A CLEAR MIND would care about spending between $10,000-$100,000 on cards if it all of a sudden it had a resale value of $8. I still can't believe some people can't grasp or agree with this concept.
Rich
<< <i>Boo:
It's obvious that you're the Dunce:
With this said, you buy a car for the purpose of getting you around. Before you buy this car you understand that as soon as you drive it off the lot it will lose value and will continue to lose value as time goes on. If you had the chance to buy a card collection for $50,000 but were told that in 2 years it would be worth nothing, my gut feeling is that 95% of the card collecting population would not buy the collection. Furthermore, if you were told that this collection would decrease in price tomorrow, I'll bet that you would wait until tomorrow to purchase it for the cheaper price (money matters).
If you're buying cards for the sole purpose of enjoyment and you can care less if it holds it's value, stick to collecting players like Chris Sabo and Albert Belle as cards for these players won't cost much to acquire. However, anyone in THEIR RIGHT MIND does not want to lose money!
If you're going to make comparisons stop being so stupid by comparing apples to oranges.
Rich >>
Why do I fee like I'm beating my head against a wall? You buy a truck for the purpose of transportation--and you buy a card for the purposes of enjoying it. What you don't get is that everyone buys stuff FOR A REASON, and that reason doesn't necessarily have to involve future appreciation. Look at the guys who get in p**sing wars for low pop commons. Do most of them think those card will still be that hard to find 10 years from now? No. Do they think the card will probably lose value in the future? In many cases, yes-- I bet they do. But they still pay high prices for them for reasons that have nothing to do with appreciating value (they want to be the first guy to complete the set in PSA 9, they want to 'stick it to' a guy who outbid them on the last 9 cards that came up for sale, yada yada).
And in regards to your 'stick to collecting players like Chris Sabo', nonsense, obviously that's dependant on personal finances and individual priorities. If Bill Gates got into card collecting he may decide to put together some incredibly difficult set-- say, 1988 Donruss in BGS 10-- that has almost no chance of increasing in value, since he's the only one who cares about having that set in Pristine grade. Or a guy who makes $55,000 a year but REALLY loves 1988D may try the same thing, and pump tons of money into unopened cases and grading fees, even though he knows he has no chance of recouping the costs. Do either of these guys need to get their heads examined. No, they don't. They just have different ideas about what they'd like to spend their money on then you do.
<< <i>Toppscollector:
I agree. However, I'll bet just about every collector WITH A CLEAR MIND would care about spending between $10,000-$100,000 on cards if it all of a sudden it had a resale value of $8. I still can't believe some people can't grasp or agree with this concept.
Rich >>
I don't think anyone here would dispute that. But there's a huge difference between saying 'just about every collector with a clear mind' and 'EVERY collector who isn't a moron'.
Well, Well......It's about darn time you are waking up and understanding this simple/common sense concept.
Rich
<< <i>Boo:
Well, Well......It's about darn time you are waking up and understanding this simple/common sense concept.
Rich >>
Let's go back and look at what you wrote.
Rich G says:
The fact is that if somebody spent $10,000-100,00 to build up his collection, he either
1)Cares about his collection holding it's value
2)Is a multi-millionaire and doesn't care if he loses between $10,000-1000,00
3) Makes an average to above average salary of $75,000-$1,000,000 and doesn't care about his collection holding it's value which means he needs to get his head examined.
Point 3 doesn't stand, for the reasons I've already illustrated. 'Nuff said.