What is the real reason people do not allow others to view their registries?
GeoffEighinger
Posts: 431 ✭✭
Just curious.
0
Comments
Seriously, it's probably to keep those with a penchant for vindictiveness and spitefulness from bidding the set owner up on cards he or she needs or wants to upgrade.
<< <i>Seriously, it's probably to keep those with a penchant for vindictiveness and spitefulness from bidding the set owner up on cards he or she needs or wants to upgrade. >>
That is it in a nutshell. 99% of the people here on the registry list are fantastic people. The 1% screws with it just enough to change the way people list their sets. Nobody even has to list names. All of us know who it is in our particular sets.
Be good my brothers.
I used to have all my sets open....but my paranoia forced me to close a few of them because I was just a teeny bit worried about that kind of stuff. I didn't want to get screwed...so I forgo the joy of having my set open so I don't have to worry. Paranoia? Yes, probably.
1977 Topps Star Wars - "Space Swashbucklers"
Here's an example!
<< <i>What about people who keep their complete PSA 10 sets closed? >>
Well that's just silly.
Easy fix? Don't bid early, SNIPE late...If someone is willing to gamble that another collector will outsnipe them, that could be a very expensive gamble. So if you don't want to be shilled, simply set your snipe for what you are willing to pay and let it ride..
I have gained FAR MORE by having my sets open than I have been shilled on auctions...I get e-mails all the time from fellow collectors looking to trade or sell a card that I need for my sets. When your sets are closed and no one knows what you need or what you don't, I would imagine you'd get less offers. If the offer seems to be outrageous price gouging, it's very easy to say "no thanks"...
What's even worse are collectors that list their e-mail addresses on their sets, yet get angry when someone e-mails them with an offer to buy/sell/trade for a card they need...I welcome e-mails to upgrade my set.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>I don't think those are very good reasons honestly...
Easy fix? Don't bid early, SNIPE late...If someone is willing to gamble that another collector will outsnipe them, that could be a very expensive gamble. So if you don't want to be shilled, simply set your snipe for what you are willing to pay and let it ride..
>>
Jason - you make it sound so easy. Do you have over six figures in any particular set you are building? If dealers and that 1% of collectors know the specific cards in your collection that you need as upgrades, it is a very real and valid concern. You *will* get bid up, and be forced to pay more for your upgrades that you otherwise might if people did not know, for sure, that you needed that card as an upgrade.
This is precisely why many of the multi-million dollar collections represented on the Registry are closed for viewing.
PSA built the Registry for all collectors. Presumably, they did it to make more money [which they have]. Nonetheless, it has been a great service to collectors. Some like to brag about #1 sets. Some like to use the Registry for databasing purposes. Some like to compete. Some like to share scans. Some like to have a forum for meeting other collectors. It's perfectly all right if other collectors are not using the Registry for the same purposes you are.
That said, Jason, all of my sets are open for viewing [for now]
Now I don't have a million $$ collection, but my collection is in the 6 figures. If you want to keep your collection closed, than why post it on a public forum?
Also, if a rare low pop card comes up for sale, does anyone believe that it will go for a bargain price?
A) Many people, including myself, use the Registry as a matter of maintaining their set checklist. This is done for personal collecting purposes, not for sharing with the world. I understand that premise.
<< <i>I snipe so I don't worry about getting shilled and the bottom line is I decide what I pay for a card. >>
If cards you need are $1,000+, then, IMVHO, your statement is very naive. Just because you bid what you want to pay does NOT mean you didn't get shilled.
<< <i>
Jason - you make it sound so easy. Do you have over six figures in any particular set you are building? If dealers and that 1% of collectors know the specific cards in your collection that you need as upgrades, it is a very real and valid concern. You *will* get bid up, and be forced to pay more for your upgrades that you otherwise might if people did not know, for sure, that you needed that card as an upgrade.
>>
It's really not that hard..And yes, I have 6 figures into my collection. I have a price range I am willing to pay on each and every card I need for my sets.When a card is listed, I set a snipe for what I feel I am willing to pay for the card. If the bidding goes above that, then my snipe doesn't register and I am not a bidder. If I win the card for my max bid or lower, then I am happy with it. I don't care what anyone else below me bid and never feel like I over-paid. Its the same price I would pay if the card were listed on a website or as a BIN, and yes many of them are $1,000+ cards.
I guess any collector NAIVE enough to get into a bidding war over a card should have their sets closed. Funny thing is, its possible that the ebay seller is also a Set Registry participant and may have e-mailed the collector and offered to sell him the card OFF ebay for even cheaper then he's willing to bid. I know I have saved TONS of money buying and trading cards with fellow Set Registry guys, who knew what I needed because my sets are open and vice versa.
Especially when we are talking ULTRA-rare low pop cards. When I have one available, the first thing I do is check the Set Registry and see who needs it. i shoot them an e-mail to gauge interest and ask what they are looking to pay. If their offer is what i would consider "fair market value" I will sell to them and save the hassle of an ebay listing with fees...
Maybe its just the football guys doing this, I dont know???Makes sense to me though..
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Unfortunatley, it isn't like that in all other sets. You guys are much better off and have a good sense of community.
For the vintage sets I'm building/working on - I already have a very well-developed network with dealers and fellow collectors; they call me regardless of whether or not they know I actually need the card. Thus, the Registry does not help me there - as the relationships are something I've built completely independent of the Registry.
That said - certain low pops and high-grade stars will invariably go to auction houses. Even from dealers with whom I have good relationships. The relationships are often built by either a) paying premium prices or b) providing quality trade material. But sometimes the potential for a high payday via Mastro or other auction house is too great to risk in a private, negotiated sale. At least for many dealers [esp. since I do not pay 50x SMR]
m
I just see more positives than negatives when it comes to showing your registered sets to the world. As FabFrank has stated in the past, pre-requisite to winning a Registry Award should be having your set open to the public. It's a public award and if they are in it for the competition, then the other competitors should be able to see what they are up against. If you want to use the registry as a checklist or whatever and keep your sets closed, then maybe those collectors shouldn't be eligible to win awards for the set. I know PSA has already been over this and basically squashed any chance of that ever happening. But, it does make sense IMO.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>I always wondered why MOSH doesn't open up there sets. What kinda museum doesn't let you look at anything? >>
LOL....good point. I'm with JASP on this issue. I have built many friendships through contact other registry members and have bought, sold and traded cards because I have access to their sets and they have access to mine. I can possibly see closing certain sets where the competition is fierce and there are many low pops that multiple people are after, but in the sets that I collect (all football) this doesn't seem to be the case (as a general rule...). The registry would haven't anwhere near the appeal for me if I couldn't view other collector's sets and they couldn't view mine.
Regards,
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
MOSH
LOL - that's my new favorite joke.
what they really are, is the CONCEALER OF SPORTS HISTORY
added: can i borrow that joke for my comments section on my master set?
While they are building, I'm pretty sure they are subscribing to the reasoning mentioned earlier in this thread...I don't agree with the reasoning, but hey its a free country right...
I'd pay admission to visit their collection in an actual Museum. Maybe thats their plan..Pay-Per-View..lol
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
with that said, I am actually competing (if you want to call it that) with geoffeighinger on a set. He's one position ahead of me on the registry of that set (the last time I looked). His set is open/my set is open. And it is nice that way. When cards both of us are looking for come up for auction, if he bids on it first, I hold off. I don't see a reason to get into a pissing war with him on a card that there may be a population of 80 on because another one will come along.
Forget blocking him; find out where he lives and go punch him in the nuts. --WalterSobchak 9/12/12
Looking for Al Hrabosky and any OPC Dave Campbells (the ESPN guy)
<<<< I always wondered why MOSH doesn't open up there sets. What kinda museum doesn't let you look at anything?
what they really are, is the CONCEALER OF SPORTS HISTORY >>
Too funny. I"m calling them COSH from now on!
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
in a perfect world where everyone is nice this wouldn't happen. sadly in the year i collect the most there is one person who will put in spiteful bids when he has the card. he did that so often that he started a 2nd set. no names mentioned just look at the 1966 topps baseball registry and see if you can find someone with two spots in the top 7.
just because people snipe doesn't mean they want to pay their max each time.
<< <i>
just because people snipe doesn't mean they want to pay their max each time. >>
Anyone who isn't prepared to pay their MAX on a snipe is a fool. Bid what you are willing to pay, if you get it you shouldn't be worried about the under-bidder..
If you don't, then at least you didn't overpay for a card. This is a basic concept to me. When you see a BIN outside of your price range do you buy it anyway? Or a card listed on a site for twice what you are willing to pay, do you pay it? I can honestly say I have NEVER overspent on a card. I pay what I am comfortable paying at the time..6 months later, it may turn out that I overpaid (well, I dont buy much modern..lol) but at the time, I only bid what I feel the card is worth to me.
This is another reason i'll never own another baseball card...It's just not like that on the football side, and i've been on the Registry for over 3 years now. If it ever becomes as cut-throat as baseball sounds, I will cash out. I collect out of enjoyment, but its also an enjoyable way to invest. Buying something that I can at least get my money back on one day if i ever decide to quit. If I have to worry about someone shilling my snipes (is that possible) or getting my auctions slammed by fake accounts because I outbid someone, why would I bother having sets listed in the first place??
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<Now I don't have a million $$ collection, but my collection is in the 6 figures. If you want to keep your collection closed, than why post it on a public forum?>
I also have a 6 figure collection!!!! Unfortunately the first 4 are 0000
n.
A psychotic disorder characterized by delusions of persecution with or without grandeur, often strenuously defended with apparent logic and reason.
Extreme, irrational distrust of others.
[Greek, madness, from paranoos, demented : para-, beyond; see para–1 + nous, noos, mind.]
hope that helps!
do you know the difference between "want to" and "prepared to"?
of course the risk is there that i will pay close to max and i am prepared to do that in the event that happens. does that mean myself or anyone "wants to" pay the max...ABSOLUTELY NOT.
of course looking at your registry you are advertising that you are entertaining the idea that you would move your cards (price included!) so that says a lot about your true intentions. you are using the set registry as a classified ad.
<< <i>Anyone who isn't prepared to pay their MAX on a snipe is a fool
do you know the difference between "want to" and "prepared to"?
of course the risk is there that i will pay close to max and i am prepared to do that in the event that happens. does that mean myself or anyone "wants to" pay the max...ABSOLUTELY NOT.
of course looking at your registry you are advertising that you are entertaining the idea that you would move your cards (price included!) so that says a lot about your true intentions. you are using the set registry as a classified ad. >>
If you don't WANT to pay it, don't bid it...
You obviously don't know me very well...I've been collecting this set for 7 years with no plans of giving it up. I buy/sell/trade only when it helps to upgrade my set. The gains I have made in my set by using it as "a classified ad" are far greater than any loses I may have taken by paying a few dollars more than I might have with a closed set...
To each his own, if you feel better closing your sets, so be it. I just think its gotta be a big waste of time creating sets and listing cards when no one sees it but you..Couldn't you do that on a piece of paper at home much easier?
""If you want to keep your collection closed, than why post it on a public forum""--GEORGETHEBAKER
I couldn't have said it better myself.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Which, if it is my main reason to use the Registry, is a good reason to keep the set closed.
Bottom line: PSA allows it, there are *many* significant collections that would be de-registered rather than opened up, so I can understand people not agreeing with it. But why make such an issue of it? Your choice is different. The end.
<< <i>But why make such an issue of it? Your choice is different. The end. >>
Agreed...
The question was raised and I've posted my opinion as have many others. But thats all it is, my opinion.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Ironically Jason, that's exactly what I do. I have quite a few player sets in football and baseball that I've been working on. Those runs contain PSA, SGC and a few BGS cards. I just print out the player lists and check off the cards I have and write the grade next to it. Matter of fact a friend of Shagroth put together a quick Excel sheet that allows me to track the cards and sort them in a way that I like. I'm currently loading that info in there.
As for other comments about being "Naive" thinking that my snipe bids aren't getting shilled, well... so what? I bid according to what I want to spend. Anything less than that is great. Anything over doesn't bother me in the least.
If anything, I think it's pretty "naive" to think that advanced/mature collectors worry about such stuff.
To me that means: because of my sniping, shilling won't affect me.
My statement is that: even if you are sniping, you can still be shilled.
In your last post, you wrote: "As for other comments about being "Naive" thinking that my snipe bids aren't getting shilled, well... so what?"
Well, if you don't care about it, then it is not a concern of yours at all! That's great. Based on your original statement, I did not know you didn't care. Your earlier statement made it seem like you thought your sniping made shilling a non-factor.
<< <i>What about people who keep their complete PSA 10 sets closed?
Here's an example! >>
Ironically, MOSH has the only OPEN set in this example!!!
I still feel sniping negates shill bidding. If there is some way that someone could discern what I'm bidding on, and how much my hidden snipe would be so as to shill me, than yeah, it still wouldn't bother me. I just feel that possibility of that happening is very remote.
<< <i>If you had a PSA 10 that you know MOSH needed, you could get away with setting an outrageous opening bid. >>
A good theory. The only problem is that MOSH has on multiple occasions still outbid me and others with very high snipe bids on PSA 10s that they already have a PSA 10 on previously. In certain realms, even if you knew what they had they still seem willing to pay what some may view as outrageous, whether they had their sets open or not. Just count on it and factor it into your own bids.
<< <i>I still feel sniping negates shill bidding. If there is some way that someone could discern what I'm bidding on, and how much my hidden snipe would be so as to shill me, than yeah, it still wouldn't bother me. I just feel that possibility of that happening is very remote. >>
Someone doesn't need to know what price you put in as your snipe to shill you up. If you aren't worried about it though, then good for you...it ain't a problem for you. But it is a problem for other collectors...and that is one reason they close their sets.
<< <i>What about people who keep their complete PSA 10 sets closed?
Here's an example! >>
Cool!!!
That's like me locking up my sock drawer!
<< <i>
<< <i>I still feel sniping negates shill bidding. If there is some way that someone could discern what I'm bidding on, and how much my hidden snipe would be so as to shill me, than yeah, it still wouldn't bother me. I just feel that possibility of that happening is very remote. >>
Someone doesn't need to know what price you put in as your snipe to shill you up. If you aren't worried about it though, then good for you...it ain't a problem for you. But it is a problem for other collectors...and that is one reason they close their sets. >>
How does someone "shill you up" without knowing what your snipe is set at...Pretty much gives him a 50-50 chance of ME being the #2 bidder and him paying out the ebay fees only to have to re-list the card later...These cards have cert #s, and especially when it comes to the low pop ones, its not hard to track a shilled/relisted card...
At that point, that seller would become blacklisted from any of my bids again...Easy fix...
The thing is, all of this could take place with or without the PSA Set Registry sets being open or closed.
I'll say it again, the pros of having the 99% of good collectors be able to see my sets FAR OUTWEIGHS the bad of having the naughty 1% of crooked collectors being able to try and shill me on a card or to.
Just my opinion, giving a positive viewpoint on why collectors should open their sets. Its not mandatory, PSA will never make it mandatory, but the Registry is a public competiton with awards and plaques and all that jazz...How can you compete with something you can't see?
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
Personnally I love dealing with all of the active guys in the FB HOF Registry and couldn't agree more with everything that was written by Jason and King.
As long as collector's feel threatened or worried about being shilled or juiced by other collectors, then they are going to block their sets. I think we all agree on that point.
So why not disqualify them from award contention? If its a private collection, then why should they win a public award? Do un-listed private sets get consideration for awards and plaques? No...It should at least be a pre-requisite that any COMPETING sets be displayed. For those using the registry as more of a checklist, well they probably don't care about the awards anyway since they aren't interested in the competition aspect...To me its akin to playing baseball blindfolded..How can you compete with what you can't see??Should I be searching for that 1/1 PSA 10 or is it already locked up in someones blocked out registry set?
I would have no problem with collectors blocking out their sets if they weren't in competition with me for the same set of cards.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>So why not disqualify them from award contention? >>
I think this is a great idea as far as most collectors go. But it would be a poor business decision by PSA. They would be pissing off too many big dollar customers. I don't think it will happen.
I agree with Jason and have posted and talked to PSA about this.
Cmoking hit the nail on the head. PSA is not going to change their postion on this. Especially if it's going to cost them money.