The official Blue Jays thread
Writer11
Posts: 738 ✭
in Sports Talk
OK had to start this one.
Today, the Jays sent Josh Towers (their former No. 3 starter who was 1-8, 9.00 ERA this year) and their former No. 1 shortstop Russ Adams to the minors. You guys complain about Randy Johnson's numbers this year, poor Towers was 1-8 with a 9.00 ERA. I'm a Blue Jays fan through and through and Towers is one of those guys you can't help but cheer for, but the Jays just couldn't keep taking it on the chin every fifth game. Adams is another good kid, unfortunately he must have visited Knoblauch and Sax in the off-season and is having trouble making throws to first. I hope he turns it around.
We've got two of our best starters on the DL - Burnett and Chacin. So basically our rotation consists of Roy Halladay (6-1, 2.77 ERA), Ted Lilly (lights out or lit up) and two rookies Casey Janssen (has pitched well 3-3, 3.46 ERA) and Ty Taubenheim. With everything considered, I'll take the Jays only being two back in the AL East. Their pitching has to get better.
B.J. Ryan has been out of this world. This guy has only allowed one earned run all season and it was because a baserunner stoled two bases on catcher's indifference and then scored on a short sac fly. Otherwise, his ERA would be 0.00.
Today, the Jays sent Josh Towers (their former No. 3 starter who was 1-8, 9.00 ERA this year) and their former No. 1 shortstop Russ Adams to the minors. You guys complain about Randy Johnson's numbers this year, poor Towers was 1-8 with a 9.00 ERA. I'm a Blue Jays fan through and through and Towers is one of those guys you can't help but cheer for, but the Jays just couldn't keep taking it on the chin every fifth game. Adams is another good kid, unfortunately he must have visited Knoblauch and Sax in the off-season and is having trouble making throws to first. I hope he turns it around.
We've got two of our best starters on the DL - Burnett and Chacin. So basically our rotation consists of Roy Halladay (6-1, 2.77 ERA), Ted Lilly (lights out or lit up) and two rookies Casey Janssen (has pitched well 3-3, 3.46 ERA) and Ty Taubenheim. With everything considered, I'll take the Jays only being two back in the AL East. Their pitching has to get better.
B.J. Ryan has been out of this world. This guy has only allowed one earned run all season and it was because a baserunner stoled two bases on catcher's indifference and then scored on a short sac fly. Otherwise, his ERA would be 0.00.
0
Comments
I like Josh Towers. I drafted him in my fantasy team hoping his talent was about to come through. Best of luck to him ..... just as long as the Yankees pound him along the way
As long as you have a healthy Halladay leading the rotation the Jays will AT LEAST be in the thick of things. BJ Ryan is a stud ..... the Blue Jays are on the upswing!
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
The rumour-mill has Hillebrand being offered up--not sure what he would bring, but hopefully a #3 starter who can eat up 200-225 innings.
Who knows, Chacin may not be as healthy as they say either. He is scheduled to pitch shortly, but if his injury reoccurs and he is forced to miss a prolonged period then this season is likely history.
Eyebone
Forget blocking him; find out where he lives and go punch him in the nuts. --WalterSobchak 9/12/12
Looking for Al Hrabosky and any OPC Dave Campbells (the ESPN guy)
Jay
Hillebrand would be a nice acquisition for a contending team in need of hitting. Trading a young Rios wouldn't be in their best interest. Sad part is, there isn't a whole lot of pitching to go around. And if there is, bet your bottom dollar, the yankees will be involved - not that they have anything to offer.
<< <i>My belief is that they'll have to end up trading Rios for pitching (as stupid as that may be), but no team is going to give up even a # 3 starter for Shea Hillebrand. The reason I say this is this is the season for Ricardi--I honestly don't know if he'll be back next year if this team finishes 10 games behind the Yankees--maybe if they're in the running for at least a wildcard spot up until the final weekend, but anything less than that and Ricardi is gone although I feel that would be stupid--I think he's a good GM.
Jay >>
80stoyguy,
I hope you are wrong about Rios. I know it's early in the season but this guy is well above average in almost every category (power, defense, speed). The only think he lacks is plate discipline. This guy has the potential to be a great one. You're right they do need a solid #3. One thing the Jays do have is a lot of is solid pitching prospects (Purcey, Rosario, Janssen, Banks, Taubenheim), so I think they can deal a prospect for a pitcher if they are in the thick of things come August/September. In my view, the season hinges on Burnett coming back and giving us two or three solid months.
The big rumor lately is Hillenbrand for Adam Kennedy. I'd much rather have Hillenbrand's bat in the lineup than Kennedy's defence.
Halladay is definately a difference maker. He eats up innings when he is healthy to save the bullpen. As long as he stays healthy they should be in contention.
Towers absolutely killed them in the early going. Against the Red Sox they are 5-0 in games started by anyone but Towers and 0-3 in games started by Towers.
I didn't mean to say they were going to trade Rios for a # 3 guy, obviously he is worth much more than that (and a Rios for Zito trade would involve much more coming over from the A's although I don't see this trade happening). I know you weren't picking on me but to clarify what I meant was Hillebrand has very little trade value--basically a singles hitter (might hit 20 HR tops in a power position), that will end up hitting in the .280 range--a great player for sure, but certainly not at what he's making (somewhere in the neighborhood of 5 million plus). So for any team to take him it would be somebody who really needs offense (like the Angels in the Hillebrand for Kennedy swap), or a team like the Yankees who can afford to take on the salary. IF Ricardi is going to make a big splash though, he'd have to give up at least 2 of those young arms and I really don't think he wants to do that. My guess would be Rios for a package of a big-time starter and another young arm or bat, simply because going into the season they certainly weren't counting on what they are getting from Rios (remember, last year they were ready to pull the string on this guy and get him out of town--nothing was set up, but every indication was that in the off-season they might try to trade him). To be a fly on the wall before the season started to hear another GM say something like, "ya, we like Rios, but he's got no power, just not the right fit." He has proven alot of people wrong.
I agree that Burnett is going to be the tell-tale for the season--if the Jays get him back in the next month or so they will be O.K, right up until the end. But otherwise they really don't have the pitching to get them where they want to be, and that may FORCE Ricardi's hand. I certainly don't want them to trade him, but they have the pieces in place right now--how long can you keep building? Sometimes you just have to go for it and worry about the consequences at a later date.
Jay
Good luck with the thread.
Go JAYS!
I'll be reading.
Steve
<< <i>Hey Writer.
I didn't mean to say they were going to trade Rios for a # 3 guy, obviously he is worth much more than that (and a Rios for Zito trade would involve much more coming over from the A's although I don't see this trade happening). I know you weren't picking on me but to clarify what I meant was Hillebrand has very little trade value--basically a singles hitter (might hit 20 HR tops in a power position), that will end up hitting in the .280 range--a great player for sure, but certainly not at what he's making (somewhere in the neighborhood of 5 million plus). So for any team to take him it would be somebody who really needs offense (like the Angels in the Hillebrand for Kennedy swap), or a team like the Yankees who can afford to take on the salary. IF Ricardi is going to make a big splash though, he'd have to give up at least 2 of those young arms and I really don't think he wants to do that. My guess would be Rios for a package of a big-time starter and another young arm or bat, simply because going into the season they certainly weren't counting on what they are getting from Rios (remember, last year they were ready to pull the string on this guy and get him out of town--nothing was set up, but every indication was that in the off-season they might try to trade him). To be a fly on the wall before the season started to hear another GM say something like, "ya, we like Rios, but he's got no power, just not the right fit." He has proven alot of people wrong.
I agree that Burnett is going to be the tell-tale for the season--if the Jays get him back in the next month or so they will be O.K, right up until the end. But otherwise they really don't have the pitching to get them where they want to be, and that may FORCE Ricardi's hand. I certainly don't want them to trade him, but they have the pieces in place right now--how long can you keep building? Sometimes you just have to go for it and worry about the consequences at a later date.
Jay >>
Jay,
Great post! I admire anyone with this sort of passion for the Jays.
You're right Rios could have been had for next to nothing this past off-season. The Jays were going to deal him and Orlando Hudson to Texas for Kevin Mench, but that fell through. You're right, he might be Ricciardi's best trading "chip," but I sure hope he doesn't do it. Rios had another homer tonight (3 for 5), .364 AVG.
I'm looking forward to your future posts.
<< <i>Writer
Good luck with the thread.
Go JAYS!
I'll be reading.
Steve >>
Thanks Steve. I've always enjoyed reading your posts. Hey, you're a Mets fan, right? Do you think Alfonzo has anything left?
Not sure if he will have a big impact hitting wise, he is though the consumate pro ballplayer and can help in ways that may not show up in the box score. he is on the down side of his career. he can though hit 300 as a part timer i bet.
I always liked him and was saddened when the mets allowed him to leave via free agency. he can play 3rd, 2nd and 1st base.
What are the Jays gonna use him as?
Steve
<< <i>Writer
Not sure if he will have a big impact hitting wise, he is though the consumate pro ballplayer and can help in ways that may not show up in the box score. he is on the down side of his career. he can though hit 300 as a part timer i bet.
I always liked him and was saddened when the mets allowed him to leave via free agency. he can play 3rd, 2nd and 1st base.
What are the Jays gonna use him as?
Steve >>
Hey Steve,
Thanks for the response. They are hoping to use Alfonzo at second base. I think it will be kind of a stop gap measure until the end of the year. They just shipped their starting shortstop, Russ Adams, to the minors to make him into a second baseman.
I went to Toronto for two games of the Jays/White Sox series this weekend. Saw B.J. Ryan blow his first save on Saturday. He did it, despite having four strikeouts in two innings. The Jays still won though on an extra-inning homer by Hillenbrand. Yesterday, inexperienced pitching caught up to them, Taubenheim had four walks in two innings, but the Jays still made a game of it in the end. There is a real resurgence in interest and enthusiasm at the Rogers Centre (formerly known as the SkyDome). Both days there were more than 30,000 at the game.
I'm happy taking two of three against the Chisox, especially when Halladay didn't start any of the games. Halladay starts tonight against the Bosox.
The Jays blew a 6-0, but scored a run in the bottom of the 8th to win 7-6.
I'm starting to like these Jays a lot. Let's hope the Jays don't deal Hillenbrand for Adam Kennedy.
<< <i>Only wish the Tigers and the Blue Jays were in the same division, so we can rekindle the rivalry we had in that great race from '87!!! >>
Oh man, you had to bring up '87
Bill Madlock is still despised up here for that slide that broke Tony Fernandez elbow. I also remember Larry Herndon hitting that homer just out of George Bell's reach at Tiger Stadium. The Tigers won 1-0 and the Blue Jays went golfing.
<< <i>Bill Madlock is still despised up here for that slide that broke Tony Fernandez elbow. I also remember Larry Herndon hitting that homer just out of George Bell's reach at Tiger Stadium. The Tigers won 1-0 and the Blue Jays went golfing. >>
I just want to thank the Tigers and the Blue Jays for that finish. The Twins couldn't beat the Jays to save their lives back then. Without the Jays pushing the Tigers to the wall, I don't think they beat the Tigers either.
It was an incredible finish and worked out perfect from where I was standing.
<< <i>It was a great finish nonetheless, whoever scheduled that season did it perfectly!!! >>
Great finish for Tigers' fans
My Jays lost seven straight at the end of that season. That was one of the worst collapses in MLB history.
<< <i>The Jays do well against the Bosox. >>
Tell me about it. Last season, the Jays (who had nothing to play for in September) were a nightmare for the Red Sox. Frank Catalanotto was like Albert Pujols at the plate, I don't think that guy ever made an out against Boston.
I still think the Jays could be the main stumbling block for Boston this season in the AL East, especially if Burnett comes back healthy.
<< <i>
<< <i>The Jays do well against the Bosox. >>
Tell me about it. Last season, the Jays (who had nothing to play for in September) were a nightmare for the Red Sox. Frank Catalanotto was like Albert Pujols at the plate, I don't think that guy ever made an out against Boston. >>
Catalanotto has been eating the Yankees alive for a couple of years now too.
-- Yogi Berra
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The Jays do well against the Bosox. >>
Tell me about it. Last season, the Jays (who had nothing to play for in September) were a nightmare for the Red Sox. Frank Catalanotto was like Albert Pujols at the plate, I don't think that guy ever made an out against Boston. >>
Catalanotto has been eating the Yankees alive for a couple of years now too. >>
"The Cat" is pretty solid offensively. Sometimes he's an adventure defensively. But the Jays have Reed Johnson who is a great platoon partner with him and is great defensively.
I'm starting to think that the team with the best middle relief is going to win the AL East. And I think that's a toss up between the Jays, Bosox and Yankees.
<< <i>I'm starting to think that the team with the best middle relief is going to win the AL East. And I think that's a toss up between the Jays, Bosox and Yankees. >>
I don't disagree with you, but none of the three teams shines in middle relief at the moment. All three teams have outstanding closers, but the middle relief guys might be the weakest parts of their respective teams.
Thank goodness Vernon Wells hit so many home runs the night before, that his shoulder was sore and he had to sit out tonight.
<< <i>Thank goodness Vernon Wells hit so many home runs the night before, that his shoulder was sore and he had to sit out tonight.
Yup, the Jays have just as much if not more hitting power than the Yanks and BoSox -- 3 hitters are in the top 10 in average, and Wells and Glaus are hitting the crap out of the ball. Frankly, with that firepower, the Jays should probably be leading the division by 4 games now.
It is legitimately a 3 team race, and the Orioles and D'Rays are formidable spoilers in the mix as well.
<< <i>
<< <i>Thank goodness Vernon Wells hit so many home runs the night before, that his shoulder was sore and he had to sit out tonight.
Yup, the Jays have just as much if not more hitting power than the Yanks and BoSox -- 3 hitters are in the top 10 in average, and Wells and Glaus are hitting the crap out of the ball. Frankly, with that firepower, the Jays should probably be leading the division by 4 games now.
It is legitimately a 3 team race, and the Orioles and D'Rays are formidable spoilers in the mix as well. >>
If the Jays had gotten any sort of pitching out of their No. 5 starter (Josh Towers 1-8, 9.00 ERA before being demoted), they probably would be leading the division. I love the Jays, but the thing that scares me about them is that they seem to be relying on an offence that is overperforming. I mean Rios looks great but he's likely not going to hit .350 all season. Wells is solid, but his career numbers show him as a .275 to .290 hitter with 25 to 30 HRs, not a .330 hitter on pace for 40 + taters. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that Burnett comes back and pitches effectively.
It's going to take the Jays going all out all season to keep up with the Yankees and Bosox. Hey, to me it will be a successful year if the Jays are in the race come September.
<< <i>It seems also that the management in Toronto is looking to win, as evidenced by their FA spending this off-season, something I don't recall having seen before. >>
Hmmm, was the two straight World Series they won THAT long ago?
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>
<< <i>It seems also that the management in Toronto is looking to win, as evidenced by their FA spending this off-season, something I don't recall having seen before. >>
Hmmm, was the two straight World Series they won THAT long ago?
1992 and 1993, right? I don't recall many big name free agents on those teams, a quick check of the payroll of the 1993 team shows it was around $40 million. Even for 13 years ago, not exactly big spending IMO.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Blue Jays $47,279,166
Reds $44,879,666
Yankees $42,624,900
Braves $41,641,417
Royals $41,346,167
Yes, that is the ROYALS with the 5th highest payroll in 1993. How times change
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>Well, the 1993 Blue Jays payroll was $47,279,166. Believe it or not that was the highest payroll in the game that year. Some big guys they got via free agency were Joe Carter, Jack Morris, Dave Stewart, Paul Molitor, Devon White. Somebody please correct me if I am wrong with any of this info. So, it seems they did indeed open up the check book for some quality high priced (for that time) free agents. >>
Soft,
Your recall is quite good. Morris, Stewart, Molitor and Winfield were all free agent signings. Carter came over to the Jays with Alomar from the Padres in that blockbuster that sent McGriff and Fernandez to San Diego, but the Jays did have to dish out big bucks to keep Carter in Toronto after the 1992 season or risk losing him to free agency. Devon White was acquired in a trade from California that sent Junior Felix the other way.
Yeah, I consider myself fortunate to have seen my team win two World Series in my lifetime. But CTSox is right in that this is the first year in a long time that the Jays have spent some money on the free agent market. The rumor mill is swirling that the Jays might swing a deal for Dontrelle Willis now that would involve big-time prospect Dustin McGowan. Not sure about the D-Train this year.
writer11 - The Blue Jays opened their wallets before the 1997 and 1998 season when they signed Roger Clemens, Benito Santiago and Randy Myers to big free agent contracts.
<< <i>The Blue Jays were the model franchise of the 80's. In the 90's they supplemented their superb farm system with free agent signings as Writer11 suggested. Do not forget the Blue Jays added David Cone at the trading deadline in 92 and Rickey Henderson at the trading deadline in 1993. Cito Gaston's lineup for the 1993 season after the acquisition of Rickey has to rank among the best of all-time. His ability to keep 6 all-stars happy was pretty remarkable.
writer11 - The Blue Jays opened their wallets before the 1997 and 1998 season when they signed Roger Clemens, Benito Santiago and Randy Myers to big free agent contracts. >>
aro,
Yes you're right they did sign a few big names in the late '90s. I try to forget the Clemens years - although he did win two Cy Youngs. I know Clemens took advantage of a clause he had in his contract to force the Jays to trade him, but, as a diehard Blue Jays fan, I felt like he really spit in his teammates faces after his final year in Toronto. Yes, Clemens is a legend and I couldn't have asked for anything more out of him in Toronto, but I still don't care for him very much. One thing I've learned about Roger over the years is that he does exactly what he wants and doesn't care much about what anyone - including his teammates - think. He's a legend and first ballot Hall of Famer no doubt and he may be the greatest guy in the world for all I know, but I still feel slighted by the way he left the Jays.
<< <i> He's a legend and first ballot Hall of Famer no doubt and he may be the greatest guy in the world for all I know, but I still feel slighted by the way he left the Jays. >>
don't feel so bad, you could be a Sox fan.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Hey, a win is a win though and I'll take it.
I just wish these darn Yankees and Red Sox would lose a game here and there
Rios had another good night 3 for 5. Wells was back in the lineup after a couple days off.
Cross my fingers, but things are looking good here.
Eyebone
I wish they would sweep too, but I guess if they keep taking two of three, they will win 90+ games.
Both Chacin and Lilly are frustratingly inconsistent. Lilly more so because he can be so dominant one night and then awful the next.
Do you live in Toronto? Do you go to many games?
<< <i>Whats the news for AJ Burnett? Is he close or what? >>
He's slated to pitch on June 22 against the Braves if all goes as planned.
I have enjoyed reading your comments on this thread (and those of others, too). I hope it continues along with the Jays' solid start.
Live in Peterborough and generally go to 5-6 games a season, though I watch on TV regularly. Have been with the Jays since day 1 and still think Dave Steib in his heyday was the best of the bunch. I am a teacher, so there is quite a bit of free time to fill in July and August. Having said that, I plan on attending the afternoon game against the Orioles next Thursday (the 15th) with my two sons. Playing hookey from work.
At this moment they are up 5-4 on the Os in the top of the eight--need this one after dropping the past two.
Do you live nearby, writer?
Eyebone
Eyebone,
I was born in a small town in Southwestern Ontario.
I go to about 5 or 6 Jays games a year, but watch them on TV religiously.
I met Dave Stieb last year at his Canadian Baseball Hall of Fame induction. Great guy. He gave a great speech.
How about that switcheroo at short and second....has that happened before?
Eyebone