<< <i>Funny...you Yankees haters are sounding like no other team in the majors trades players from their minor league systems. And because of THAT the arguments make no sense. >>
No, the argument stems from the fact the yankees have no players on their current roster brought up between 1996 and 2003...which shows either a complete and utter failure of the farm system to draft and develop young talent, or management has traded away every good prospect. >>
OR it could be that since they finished first every year during that stretch so they didnt have any low draft picks. And of the few players they have developed and traded ( which is no higher a pct than any other team ) they did so with thoughts on improving their team into the postseason, something many teams are not even in a position to deal with year in and year out.
Nobody has yet to prove that the Yankees traded away any more talent than any other team, and until having done so this will go nowhere. I say step up to the plate boys and produce facts to back up your rants. If you cant then just accept the hard facts which are that the Yankees have more home grown stars on their team than virtually anyone else.
"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." -- Yogi Berra
CT, you have no idea where either team is headed. You are making assumptions on the Red Sox bright future based on minor league players who have yet to prove anything. Sure, there could be a half dozen gems in their system, but not you or anyone else knows that for certain.
In case you havnt taken notice, the Red Sox are filled with free agents they acquired by GIVING up young prospects. How long do you think they will continue to have a farm system doing that ? It is the nature of the game, the more you win, the lower draft picks you get, and the more you need to give up a prospect to solidify your team for the pennant chase. The Yankees do it often, but so do many other teams in contention.
"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." -- Yogi Berra
<< <i> [Quit twisting and address the issue at hand you twit. >>
I have. Go back and read. My answers have thoroughly trounced all of your idotic statements. And that is FACT baby.
And CT, Only ONE of the guys from that nucleus is gone. Please stop making these ignorant statements. Oh my god! ONLY 4 of the 5 guys from that great nucleus remains
This arguement of home grown talent is absurd. The Yankees won 4 World Series in 5 years with that group and until somebody else does that the point is mute. The Yankee hater tries to make a Yankee World Championship irrelevant the year after it happens.
And CT, TRUST me when I tell you, if you take all of those glowing minor league reports hook, line, and sinker like you have only bitter disappointment is the result. You will see.
<< <i> no one really was dying to get Ortiz, Mueller, Foulke >>
like Mueller and Foulke are anything to write home about
<< <i> No, the argument stems from the fact the yankees have no players on their current roster brought up between 1996 and 2003...which shows either a complete and utter failure of the farm system to draft and develop young talent, or management has traded away every good prospect. >>
Ok, if this is the arguement just what did the Yankees do as a team between 1996 and 2003 you IDIOT I will tell you. The Yankees were busy winning 4 Series in 6 tries ya dumb a$$.
I just realized the problem here. Guys like Axtell root for teams that are REBUILDING each and every year of their miserable existance. It does not compute in Axtell's head that a GREAT team had no need for minor league call ups. He does not understand just how great those Yankee teams were from 1996 to 2000. That was a ALL TIME great team
You guys have completely skewed the basis of my point. I have stated repeatedly (and shown facts) that the Yankees have failed to either hold on to minor leaguers worthy of playing in the big show, or have failed to develop any players in their farm system that are MLB worthy.
Do you think it's a coincidence that, since the Yankees have abandoned the traditional way of bringing up their own talent, they've been shut out of the world series?
Instead of admitting us 'haters' are RIGHT, and that the yankeees' way of trying to buy free agents instead of developing talent, they haven't won a world series?
Softy, your anger should be directed at queen george and not at objective people like CT and myself. All I have done (repeatedly) is point out the glaring lack of yankee developed product on the field - that's not my fault.
<< <i>Do you think it's a coincidence that, since the Yankees have abandoned the traditional way of bringing up their own talent, they've been shut out of the world series? >>
It's all about pitching. Except for Mariano what Yankee pitcher was home grown during the great Yankee run of '96-'00? The only home grown position players were Jeter, Williams and Posada and they're all still playing.
this discussion doesn't concern you. Either stay on topic or get out.
Earth to idiot axhole. this is a public forum and as such it does concern me. as for staying on topic? perhaps if you knew how to read and comprehend what people say you would have seen that i was very much on topic.
traded away all of their top prospects between 1995 and 2004,
Hole
NO, IT MAY NOT MEAN THAT. in my previous post I said it possibly could be that free agency and retirements could also have been a reason for the gap. And if they did trade some they got soemone in return. are you that dense? Lets see an anyalisis for the Mariners can you please skew errr show us what they have done in the same period?
Why do people (WP) insist on attempting to derail this topic.
This isn't about the Mariners. This isn't about any other team. This is about the yankees' failures to develop talent through their minor league system, either that, or their willingness to trade them all away.
I am not attempting to do any such thing. I am now (like a few others) asking you to show how your implications stand up against other teams. In simple speak if the yanks, like you say have not developed talent from within for 10 years how does that COMPARE to other teams?
I used your Mariners as an example cuz I figured (prolly wrongly) that you at least knew about them.
COMPARE what you are saying about the yanks against the rest of the league or at the leaast your team so that way we can see if you are right or wrong. Surely you can do that. To nake wild assumptions based on nothing is pure folly.
<< <i> as for staying on topic? perhaps if you knew how to read and comprehend what people say you would have seen that i was very much on topic.
Steve >>
Exactly. If anyone as gone waaaaaay off topic in search for validation of wayward thoughts it is indeed Axtell. But that is Axtell's M.O. (Method of Operation) for the slow
Steve, I have at least THREE posts that simply dis-proove the propaganda. But all Axtell does is wait for three or four posts to go by and then starts another rant thinking most won't go back and read. If those who do go back and read this thread is done and buried.
Oh, and OF COURSE this thread is not about the Mariners or any other team. The Yankees are held in such high esteem (even by the haters) that it would be downright SILLY to try and analyze another team with the microscope put on the Yankees. And of course the results with any other such research would fall MILES short of what the Yankees have done the last 10 years.
And you guys continue to fail to address the INITIAL point I made - the lack of yankee farm system products for close to a decade still with the team.
You want to compare other teams' rosters when that is IRRELEVANT. This post is about the Yankees' inability to either develop young talent, or their desire to trade away those prospects in search of overpriced and aging veterans.
I am not going to compare the yankees to any other team. That is not the topic of discussion, and if makes you feel better about your team's multitude of shortcomings, feel free.
You wanted specific prospects that have been traded, in a futile effort to derail the topic. I did just that. I have painted 3 very good, every day starters who the yankees have traded in the past couple of years in feverish pursuit of veterans illustrated my point even further.
And now, that you've been lambasted over and over, you want to address every other team, besides the yankees (which was the original point here).
I insist you go back and read my posts in this thread. You will see a consistent message - that from 1996 - 2003, that no prospects brought up during that time are still with the team. Plain and simple.
Why is this simple point so difficult for you to swallow? Why can't you admit that either your team has either traded away every worthwhile farm system product, or that the farm system has produced nada in a decade?
Now, quit trying to divert the attention and answer the damned question.
<< <i>Steve, I have at least THREE posts that simply dis-proove the propaganda. But all Axtell does is wait for three or four posts to go by and then starts another rant thinking most won't go back and read. If those who do go back and read this thread is done and buried. >>
What posts have shown any prospects, still with the team, that came up between 1996 and 2003?
I will wait a LONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG time for your reply, BECAUSE YOU NEVER MADE SUCH A POST.
<< <i>Oh, and OF COURSE this thread is not about the Mariners or any other team. The Yankees are held in such high esteem (even by the haters) that it would be downright SILLY to try and analyze another team with the microscope put on the Yankees. And of course the results with any other such research would fall MILES short of what the Yankees have done the last 10 years. >>
I didn't bring up any other teams, you simple minded buffoon.
I brought up the yankees. I have mentioned their shortcomings. Don't twist, don't divert attention - answer the F***ING question.
I'm not asking you to go back and read Ax. The level headed among the group will. ALL of your points were addressed and dis-proven. Cry as much as ya want.
And your silly question of Yankee prospects of 96-03 WAS answered. DIDN'T need them because that team was of ALL TIME CALIBER you jack a$$. Are you that dense? Why in the world would that Yankee team NEED to bring up ANYBODY. ??? THERE WAS NO ROOM That is what happens when you have a GREAT team Ax! It does not happen often and you obviously have no clue what a ALL TIME GREAT TEAM would look like. The Yankees of 1996 - 2003 are a team for the ages. Stop with the STUPID arguement that there might have been a SPOT for any kids on that team
You can't answer a simple question. I simply asked where all the prospects went. I simply asked where all the prospects from 96 to 03 went. You won't admit that either (a) they were all traded in an effort to land high priced veterans, or (b) they simply didn't exist, and that the yankees farm system has produced no players yankee worthy in close to a decade.
You haven't disproved anything, all you've done is attempt to spin the topic away from this very simple question.
Can you please answer it?
Team for the ages? How many world series have the yankees won since 2000? Don't you think an infusion of young talent would have helped? I am not advocating stocking the entire team with young players, but...not...one...player from that era is on the roster, and the yankees haven't won a world series in half a decade.
I would calm down a bit with this "team for the ages" stuff - the late 90's Yankees were often quite good, but also won those 4 WS during a period of weak NL opposition (remember the Padre team they faced? Awful...) It's been almost 6 years since the Yanks won a WS, and rant and rave about this great "nucleus" all you want - but those teams won with free agent pitching acquisitions...from Clemens, to Mussina, to Wells and others...without that pitching, you can take all of Jeter's "intangibles" and they amount to nothing.
My point was simple when i commented on the players i have seen with the AAA farm club. There was nobody there to bring up...if there was they already had...and they were STARS- Pettite, Mendoza, Jeter, Bernie Williams, Posada etc. THere was nobody to bring up and they already had Tino and Scott Brosius and Paul O'Neil...not exactly high priced veterans there....actually more role players for the 2 major stars bernie and jeter i believe. Bottom line is this:
and i say this after seeing it with my own eyes:
THERE WAS NOBODY TO TRADE AWAY...THERE WAS NOBODY TO BRING UP...the AAA farm club which was a great farm team in the 80's as the yankees STUNK was depleted of players they brought up to the majors up to 96!! THey didnt have anything else come up after that..NOTHING...i mean it was as if the well dried up.....we didnt get the draft picks...and Drew Henson and Claussen NEVER panned out...Both are GONE. Henson just plain SUCKED..and played many a game here in cbus at ole cooper pooper stadium LOL. its still fun watching the clippers though ..its baseball
SO...i dont know why we are still discussing this..bottom line is George wants to win inthe MLB..not AAA....and he sucked his farm team dry by bringing upthe best....they did well...and becuase of that theydidnt have draft picks worth crap...now cause he cant bing up anybody he simply buys free agents who require more money then any other ballclub is willing to pay...SImple as that...
That's all I needed softy or some other yankee fan to say...to say that they have no talent in the farm system, that any prospect has either been traded away or they just don't know how to draft properly. I think it's a combination of the two, but I can't get a straight answer out of any of those guys.
Only trade i can think of of recent history to note was Soriano for Arod..pretty much a straight up deal in which texas wanted to get rid of what else....a high priced guy...brenner will pay it...but unfortunately he gave up a similar aged Soriano and took on more salary.
<< <i>That's all I needed softy or some other yankee fan to say...to say that they have no talent in the farm system, that any prospect has either been traded away or they just don't know how to draft properly. I think it's a combination of the two, but I can't get a straight answer out of any of those guys. >>
I dont think its that theydont know HOW to draft....i think they did too well all at once...won too many games in a row...became too good of a contender day in and day out...and got lower crappier draft picks because of it. Its like winning the super bowl 4 years and a row and drafting #32 of every round EACH YEAR...your going to miss the great picks. Can they develope them?? sure...cano is doing well.....but there was nothing there to develop...i mean literally the AAA club STINKS..i cant imagine the AA team is an better....
what can brenner do?? he could trade those vets for young talent....SURE...but he brought all those high priced guys to come in and win NOW....that would be against his philosophy. HE WANTS TO WIN NOW...AT ANY COST...AND HE DONT GIVE A POOP ABOUT WHAT ANYBODY ELSE THINKS....he dont want to set up the next owner with a loaded farm system...he wants to win now and will continue to buy high priced FREE AGENTS no matter what.
Loth
edited: personaly i can live with it...cause im a damn murdering basterd yankee fan MUWHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA!!!
<< <i>SO...i dont know why we are still discussing this..bottom line is George wants to win inthe MLB..not AAA....and he sucked his farm team dry by bringing upthe best....they did well...and becuase of that theydidnt have draft picks worth crap...now cause he cant bing up anybody he simply buys free agents who require more money then any other ballclub is willing to pay...SImple as that... >>
<< <i>I'd also like to mention the 'steal' of the offseason, Mr. Johnny Damon, is batting .274 with 1 home run, more Ks (16) than walks (13), and an OBP of .374. Where are all those who thought they were sticking it to the red sox by 'stealing' this guy?
>>
Dammit, Ax, I knew you were going to piss Johnny off, and he we start hitting the crap out of the ball!!
<< <i>I'd also like to mention the 'steal' of the offseason, Mr. Johnny Damon, is batting .274 with 1 home run, more Ks (16) than walks (13), and an OBP of .374. Where are all those who thought they were sticking it to the red sox by 'stealing' this guy?
>>
Dammit, Ax, I knew you were going to piss Johnny off, and he we start hitting the crap out of the ball!! >>
Haha I saw that today, but I think little leaguers could have hit some of those home runs today.
How about we go back even further...lets say 15-20 years.... Other than the Yankees, Braves, and Expos what teams have even come close to producing the caliber stars from their minor league systems? The Marlins havent done too bad themselves either.
Yankees system a failure? I think not. More used to win TODAY? Of course.
Why no one on the Yankees from the farm system 1996-2003? No need. Yankees grabbed up the position players they needed during that time because it is what they needed...they were not in REBUILDING years! That's when you develop talent, when a team is trying to rebuild.
Sure there are a couple of guys I wish the Yankees kept...but that is with every team. How many times do you think the Expos and Padres GMs have kicked themselves in the A$$ for letting Jason Bay slip from their hands? It happens...and the Yankees are no different because its the nature of the business.
you are missing the point. The point I've been trying to make since this thread began is that the yankees don't have a single player on their roster that came up through the farm system for close to a decade. I am not advocating that the entire roster be filled with home grown talent, but when you have a huge chunk of time where not a one player came through your farm system and is currently playing for you, I would think as a fan you'd wonder why.
And listening to the first hand accounts of the AAA club, it's apparent the yankees can't draft and/or develop any young talent. And before you start, the yankees' success has nothing to do with their inability to draft quality young talent.
<< <i> Why no one on the Yankees from the farm system 1996-2003? No need. Yankees grabbed up the position players they needed during that time because it is what they needed...they were not in REBUILDING years! That's when you develop talent, when a team is trying to rebuild. >>
When did I say rebuild? Please point it out to me. But to bring up promising young players, if they are in the system, is a must for any long term plans for success.
But to ditch your prospects to keep trading them for aging veterans eventually catches up to you, and you no longer have a farm system of good players to trade for. And that is exactly why the yankees have had to rely on second and third rate pitchers the last few years.
No one has to rebuild and I never said that was part of any of your arguement. The fact is, the Yankees were not rebuilding and filled their position players. The Yanks used Soriano and Johnson for a couple of years. Sure, they could have kept them but they decided not to. Teams DO trade their young talent. I'll have to look back but I think you are the one who even stated what talent came from the Yankees farm system during that time. So they traded them. Big deal...they traded for who they thought would make them a better team.
I guess its better to trade them then to lose them in free agency...hmmm...doesnt that sound familiar being a Seattle fan?
Sometimes these players arent fitting into what the Yankees want...I dont see trading them as a bad thing. As much as I know you would like them to, the Yanks dont make the right decisions ALL of the time.
But back to the original point...Johnson, Soriano, Contreras and whoever else's name you spilled that came from the Yankees farm system between 1996-2003 shows that the Yankees HAVE had the talent and developed them. They just got traded after a couple of years playing in the Bronx. Who says they have to keep them?
It's just comical for those of us outside yankeeland to see the team continually sacrificing young talent in search of another all star bat...and the fans don't seem to mind, hell they can score 10 a night. But that pitching staff can just as easily give up 11.
Anyways, at least you are willing to concede that all the team's best prospects have been dealt over the past decade, which is something more than what softy could concede.
Ax, I dont see or hear any Yankee fan wondering why the farm system is depleted. YOU are the only one talking about it and wondering. We all know why, there is no wonder. It is you who cannot go a day without picking something out about the Yankees to rant over.
You keep asking us to concede that all the best talent over the last 10 years is depleted. You want that, you got it. IF you want us all to admit that such amazing talent as Nick Johnson, J.T. Snow, Rickey Ledee, etc are lost, you got it. NO problem there whatsoever. I think who they have brought in are fairly adequate replacements for the murderers row they have blundered and traded away the past 10 years. IT is a crying shame they let all that talent loose and have nothing to show for it except a post season appearance every year for over 10 years.
Your crying rant over who they have from 96-03 is just so insanely obsurd that it ALMOST surprises me. Who cares who they have from those years is the point. Who argued that the Yankees didnt sign high priced free agents ? Who cares that they do ? Maybe if some teams went out and spent the millions in revenue sharing dollars the Yankees filter throughout the small markets instead of being greedy selfish fools then they would be in the playoffs every year too.
Please, just one day let us come on here and find you talking about YOUR team instead of tirelessly digging for something to say about the Yankees. It is weak, much like your arguements and supporting evidence for your claims. Quit crying about all the attention given to the Yankees when you are the worst culprit on here when it comes to talking about them.
"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." -- Yogi Berra
Lothar, none of you guys understand a damn thing. All of this talk about the Yankee farm system during a time period of 6 World Series appearances is STUPID. Do you realize Cano didn't play a day in Triple AAA. Did you even know who Wang was? Please, all of the sudden you are Mr Columbus Clipper?
Axtell, and this IS about the Mariners, Red Sox, etc. What were these teams doing during this time period huh? CERTAINLY not wininng anything. Why not? Because the Yankees were! Were the farm systems of these teams too PATHETIC? Of course they were! Far worse than the Yankees.
<< <i>Lothar, none of you guys understand a damn thing. All of this talk about the Yankee farm system during a time period of 6 World Series appearances is STUPID. Do you realize Cano didn't play a day in Triple AAA. Did you even know who Wang was? Please, all of the sudden you are Mr Columbus Clipper? :Funny. >>
"Hey Columbus CLippers RIng your COWBELL MAN" The freaking theme song is enough to make anybody puke!!! My points are....they stated that prior to 96 they did have talent in the farm team of the AAA as evident on the numerous clippers cards i have..which i believe ive sent a few people here during our trades...and no...Cano and Wang I did not see come up or down or anywhere the last 4 years....IVE BEEN IN MEDICAL SCHOOL. Missed the ballgames but know for sure the clippers havent done crap and attendance is way way down. I do not believe its a lack of talent scouting because they simply had alot lower draft picks, and I dont think they traded much great talent away either.....Nick Johnson,Ricky Ledee, and Soriano for Arod....i mean that aint exactly selling the farm. Axtell believe that all these old superstart veterans we have on the yanks is due to SELLING OUT....which simply is not the case. That is my point.
Edit: Its moreso that we will buy out..and will CONTINUE to BUY OUT all stars that might bring another championship. Its no different then back in mantle's days us taking all the talent from KC Athletics...where did maris play in 59??? I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH IT.. YEEEEEHAW!!!
AND YES..i am Mr. Columbus Clipper ya SMARTA$$....
Columbus Clippers are the best team around... Columbus Clippers we will never let you down... No matter if we're winning, we'll always play them well... Columbus Clippers.........YOUR FREAKING BELL!!!!!! YEEEEEHAW!!!!!
Edit: Its moreso that we will buy out..and will CONTINUE to BUY OUT all stars that might bring another championship. Its no different then back in mantle's days us taking all the talent from KC Athletics...where did maris play in 59??? I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH IT.. YEEEEEHAW!!!
I'm a little embarrassed by my Blue Jays performance yesterday. Hard to believe Josh Towers won 13 games and had a 3.71 ERA last year. He is getting lit up this year (0-5, 10.40 ERA). Too bad, he's a likeable guy and a real standup guy. Makes no excuses. The Jays bullpen has been taxed in April. Too many innings. Gibbons had to feed two kids to the wolves (McGowan and Marcum) yesterday. I pity being a 23-year-old and having to face Damon, Jeter, Sheffield and A-Rod.
It's the rubber match today. I'm not feeling confident. Mussina vs. Chacin. Mussina had pitched well. Chacin is 4-0, but with a 5.11 ERA. May the best team win my friend!
Writer, don't sweat it brother. The Blue Jays WANT to win and be comfortable knowing that!
Mike Mussina looks really strong. He is healthy and has command. I won't bring up his MINISCULE ERA (with the AL curve) just yet as it is early. Plus, with all the woes the Yankees pitching has had so far they are in the top 5 in all of baseball in runs allowed. Still very early but I am encouraged.
<< <i> It's been almost 6 years since the Yanks won a WS, and rant and rave about this great "nucleus" all you want - but those teams won with free agent pitching acquisitions...from Clemens, to Mussina, to Wells and others...without that pitching, you can take all of Jeter's "intangibles" and they amount to nothing. >>
I had to take special notice of this ignorant statement. Again sorry CT, I like you but it is what it is. You say the Yanks won those World Series with who and what? Mike Mussina WAS NOT around for ANY of those series brother and Andy Pettitte STOLE THE SHOW in so many post season games. It is quite AMAZING that you would leave that home grown product who pitched the Yankees to victories over the Braves TWICE, the Padres and the Mets. Of course that is what makes it baseless I don't think a statement can get any more weak and feable than the quoted above. weak weak weak not to mention a PISS POOR JOB of knowing your facts
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>Funny...you Yankees haters are sounding like no other team in the majors trades players from their minor league systems. And because of THAT the arguments make no sense. >>
No, the argument stems from the fact the yankees have no players on their current roster brought up between 1996 and 2003...which shows either a complete and utter failure of the farm system to draft and develop young talent, or management has traded away every good prospect. >>
OR it could be that since they finished first every year during that stretch so they didnt have any low draft picks. And of the few players they have developed and traded ( which is no higher a pct than any other team ) they did so with thoughts on improving their team into the postseason, something many teams are not even in a position to deal with year in and year out.
Nobody has yet to prove that the Yankees traded away any more talent than any other team, and until having done so this will go nowhere. I say step up to the plate boys and produce facts to back up your rants. If you cant then just accept the hard facts which are that the Yankees have more home grown stars on their team than virtually anyone else.
-- Yogi Berra
In case you havnt taken notice, the Red Sox are filled with free agents they acquired by GIVING up young prospects. How long do you think they will continue to have a farm system doing that ? It is the nature of the game, the more you win, the lower draft picks you get, and the more you need to give up a prospect to solidify your team for the pennant chase. The Yankees do it often, but so do many other teams in contention.
-- Yogi Berra
<< <i> [Quit twisting and address the issue at hand you twit. >>
I have. Go back and read. My answers have thoroughly trounced all of your idotic statements. And that is FACT baby.
And CT, Only ONE of the guys from that nucleus is gone. Please stop making these ignorant statements. Oh my god! ONLY 4 of the 5 guys from that great nucleus remains
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
And CT, TRUST me when I tell you, if you take all of those glowing minor league reports hook, line, and sinker like you have only bitter disappointment is the result. You will see.
<< <i> no one really was dying to get Ortiz, Mueller, Foulke >>
like Mueller and Foulke are anything to write home about
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i> No, the argument stems from the fact the yankees have no players on their current roster brought up between 1996 and 2003...which shows either a complete and utter failure of the farm system to draft and develop young talent, or management has traded away every good prospect. >>
Ok, if this is the arguement just what did the Yankees do as a team between 1996 and 2003 you IDIOT
I just realized the problem here. Guys like Axtell root for teams that are REBUILDING each and every year of their miserable existance. It does not compute in Axtell's head that a GREAT team had no need for minor league call ups. He does not understand just how great those Yankee teams were from 1996 to 2000. That was a ALL TIME great team
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Do you think it's a coincidence that, since the Yankees have abandoned the traditional way of bringing up their own talent, they've been shut out of the world series?
Instead of admitting us 'haters' are RIGHT, and that the yankeees' way of trying to buy free agents instead of developing talent, they haven't won a world series?
Softy, your anger should be directed at queen george and not at objective people like CT and myself. All I have done (repeatedly) is point out the glaring lack of yankee developed product on the field - that's not my fault.
<< <i>Do you think it's a coincidence that, since the Yankees have abandoned the traditional way of bringing up their own talent, they've been shut out of the world series? >>
It's all about pitching. Except for Mariano what Yankee pitcher was home grown during the great Yankee run of '96-'00? The only home grown position players were Jeter, Williams and Posada and they're all still playing.
<< <i>You guys have completely skewed the basis of my point. >>
anyway, since just one team can win I guess 29 teams fail miserably with their home grown talent every year huh?
edited to tell gem mint man that Andy Pettitte was part of that group and the ONLY one not still on the team
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>edited to tell gem mint man that Andy Pettitte was part of that group and the ONLY one not still on the team >>
True, how soon I forget
That PLAIN AND SIMPLE FACT is that the yankees do not have a single player on their team brought up since your 'fabled' 1995 group until 2004.
I don't see why it's so difficult for you to address facts. Why is that softy?
Earth to idiot axhole. this is a public forum and as such it does concern me. as for staying on topic? perhaps if you knew how to read and comprehend what people say you would have seen that i was very much on topic.
Steve
Hole
NO, IT MAY NOT MEAN THAT. in my previous post I said it possibly could be that free agency and retirements could also have been a reason for the gap. And if they did trade some they got soemone in return. are you that dense? Lets see an anyalisis for the Mariners can you please skew errr show us what they have done in the same period?
Steve
This isn't about the Mariners. This isn't about any other team. This is about the yankees' failures to develop talent through their minor league system, either that, or their willingness to trade them all away.
I used your Mariners as an example cuz I figured (prolly wrongly) that you at least knew about them.
COMPARE what you are saying about the yanks against the rest of the league or at the leaast your team so that way we can see if you are right or wrong. Surely you can do that. To nake wild assumptions based on nothing is pure folly.
Steve
Steve
<< <i>
as for staying on topic? perhaps if you knew how to read and comprehend what people say you would have seen that i was very much on topic.
Steve >>
Exactly. If anyone as gone waaaaaay off topic in search for validation of wayward thoughts it is indeed Axtell. But that is Axtell's M.O. (Method of Operation) for the slow
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Steve
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
You want to compare other teams' rosters when that is IRRELEVANT. This post is about the Yankees' inability to either develop young talent, or their desire to trade away those prospects in search of overpriced and aging veterans.
I am not going to compare the yankees to any other team. That is not the topic of discussion, and if makes you feel better about your team's multitude of shortcomings, feel free.
You wanted specific prospects that have been traded, in a futile effort to derail the topic. I did just that. I have painted 3 very good, every day starters who the yankees have traded in the past couple of years in feverish pursuit of veterans illustrated my point even further.
And now, that you've been lambasted over and over, you want to address every other team, besides the yankees (which was the original point here).
I insist you go back and read my posts in this thread. You will see a consistent message - that from 1996 - 2003, that no prospects brought up during that time are still with the team. Plain and simple.
Why is this simple point so difficult for you to swallow? Why can't you admit that either your team has either traded away every worthwhile farm system product, or that the farm system has produced nada in a decade?
Now, quit trying to divert the attention and answer the damned question.
<< <i>Steve, I have at least THREE posts that simply dis-proove the propaganda. But all Axtell does is wait for three or four posts to go by and then starts another rant thinking most won't go back and read. If those who do go back and read this thread is done and buried.
What posts have shown any prospects, still with the team, that came up between 1996 and 2003?
I will wait a LONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG time for your reply, BECAUSE YOU NEVER MADE SUCH A POST.
<< <i>Oh, and OF COURSE this thread is not about the Mariners or any other team. The Yankees are held in such high esteem (even by the haters) that it would be downright SILLY to try and analyze another team with the microscope put on the Yankees. And of course the results with any other such research would fall MILES short of what the Yankees have done the last 10 years. >>
I didn't bring up any other teams, you simple minded buffoon.
I brought up the yankees. I have mentioned their shortcomings. Don't twist, don't divert attention - answer the F***ING question.
I'm not asking you to go back and read Ax. The level headed among the group will. ALL of your points were addressed and dis-proven. Cry as much as ya want.
And your silly question of Yankee prospects of 96-03 WAS answered. DIDN'T need them because that team was of ALL TIME CALIBER you jack a$$. Are you that dense? Why in the world would that Yankee team NEED to bring up ANYBODY. ??? THERE WAS NO ROOM That is what happens when you have a GREAT team Ax! It does not happen often and you obviously have no clue what a ALL TIME GREAT TEAM would look like. The Yankees of 1996 - 2003 are a team for the ages. Stop with the STUPID arguement that there might have been a SPOT for any kids on that team
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
You can't answer a simple question. I simply asked where all the prospects went. I simply asked where all the prospects from 96 to 03 went. You won't admit that either (a) they were all traded in an effort to land high priced veterans, or (b) they simply didn't exist, and that the yankees farm system has produced no players yankee worthy in close to a decade.
You haven't disproved anything, all you've done is attempt to spin the topic away from this very simple question.
Can you please answer it?
Team for the ages? How many world series have the yankees won since 2000? Don't you think an infusion of young talent would have helped? I am not advocating stocking the entire team with young players, but...not...one...player from that era is on the roster, and the yankees haven't won a world series in half a decade.
Coincidence?
and i say this after seeing it with my own eyes:
THERE WAS NOBODY TO TRADE AWAY...THERE WAS NOBODY TO BRING UP...the AAA farm club which was a great farm team in the 80's as the yankees STUNK was depleted of players they brought up to the majors up to 96!! THey didnt have anything else come up after that..NOTHING...i mean it was as if the well dried up.....we didnt get the draft picks...and Drew Henson and Claussen NEVER panned out...Both are GONE. Henson just plain SUCKED..and played many a game here in cbus at ole cooper pooper stadium LOL. its still fun watching the clippers though ..its baseball
SO...i dont know why we are still discussing this..bottom line is George wants to win inthe MLB..not AAA....and he sucked his farm team dry by bringing upthe best....they did well...and becuase of that theydidnt have draft picks worth crap...now cause he cant bing up anybody he simply buys free agents who require more money then any other ballclub is willing to pay...SImple as that...
Sometimes i wish he hadnt gone....
Loth
<< <i>That's all I needed softy or some other yankee fan to say...to say that they have no talent in the farm system, that any prospect has either been traded away or they just don't know how to draft properly. I think it's a combination of the two, but I can't get a straight answer out of any of those guys. >>
I dont think its that theydont know HOW to draft....i think they did too well all at once...won too many games in a row...became too good of a contender day in and day out...and got lower crappier draft picks because of it. Its like winning the super bowl 4 years and a row and drafting #32 of every round EACH YEAR...your going to miss the great picks. Can they develope them?? sure...cano is doing well.....but there was nothing there to develop...i mean literally the AAA club STINKS..i cant imagine the AA team is an better....
what can brenner do?? he could trade those vets for young talent....SURE...but he brought all those high priced guys to come in and win NOW....that would be against his philosophy. HE WANTS TO WIN NOW...AT ANY COST...AND HE DONT GIVE A POOP ABOUT WHAT ANYBODY ELSE THINKS....he dont want to set up the next owner with a loaded farm system...he wants to win now and will continue to buy high priced FREE AGENTS no matter what.
Loth
edited: personaly i can live with it...cause im a damn murdering basterd yankee fan MUWHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA!!!
<< <i>SO...i dont know why we are still discussing this..bottom line is George wants to win inthe MLB..not AAA....and he sucked his farm team dry by bringing upthe best....they did well...and becuase of that theydidnt have draft picks worth crap...now cause he cant bing up anybody he simply buys free agents who require more money then any other ballclub is willing to pay...SImple as that... >>
I'll drink to that -
Now, was that so hard?
<< <i>I'd also like to mention the 'steal' of the offseason, Mr. Johnny Damon, is batting .274 with 1 home run, more Ks (16) than walks (13), and an OBP of .374. Where are all those who thought they were sticking it to the red sox by 'stealing' this guy?
Dammit, Ax, I knew you were going to piss Johnny off, and he we start hitting the crap out of the ball!!
<< <i>
<< <i>I'd also like to mention the 'steal' of the offseason, Mr. Johnny Damon, is batting .274 with 1 home run, more Ks (16) than walks (13), and an OBP of .374. Where are all those who thought they were sticking it to the red sox by 'stealing' this guy?
Dammit, Ax, I knew you were going to piss Johnny off, and he we start hitting the crap out of the ball!!
Haha I saw that today, but I think little leaguers could have hit some of those home runs today.
Other than the Yankees, Braves, and Expos what teams have even come close to producing the caliber stars from their minor league systems? The Marlins havent done too bad themselves either.
Yankees system a failure? I think not. More used to win TODAY? Of course.
Why no one on the Yankees from the farm system 1996-2003? No need. Yankees grabbed up the position players they needed during that time because it is what they needed...they were not in REBUILDING years! That's when you develop talent, when a team is trying to rebuild.
Sure there are a couple of guys I wish the Yankees kept...but that is with every team. How many times do you think the Expos and Padres GMs have kicked themselves in the A$$ for letting Jason Bay slip from their hands? It happens...and the Yankees are no different because its the nature of the business.
you are missing the point. The point I've been trying to make since this thread began is that the yankees don't have a single player on their roster that came up through the farm system for close to a decade. I am not advocating that the entire roster be filled with home grown talent, but when you have a huge chunk of time where not a one player came through your farm system and is currently playing for you, I would think as a fan you'd wonder why.
And listening to the first hand accounts of the AAA club, it's apparent the yankees can't draft and/or develop any young talent. And before you start, the yankees' success has nothing to do with their inability to draft quality young talent.
<< <i>
Why no one on the Yankees from the farm system 1996-2003? No need. Yankees grabbed up the position players they needed during that time because it is what they needed...they were not in REBUILDING years! That's when you develop talent, when a team is trying to rebuild. >>
But to ditch your prospects to keep trading them for aging veterans eventually catches up to you, and you no longer have a farm system of good players to trade for. And that is exactly why the yankees have had to rely on second and third rate pitchers the last few years.
The fact is, the Yankees were not rebuilding and filled their position players. The Yanks used Soriano and Johnson for a couple of years. Sure, they could have kept them but they decided not to. Teams DO trade their young talent. I'll have to look back but I think you are the one who even stated what talent came from the Yankees farm system during that time. So they traded them. Big deal...they traded for who they thought would make them a better team.
I guess its better to trade them then to lose them in free agency...hmmm...doesnt that sound familiar being a Seattle fan?
Sometimes these players arent fitting into what the Yankees want...I dont see trading them as a bad thing. As much as I know you would like them to, the Yanks dont make the right decisions ALL of the time.
But back to the original point...Johnson, Soriano, Contreras and whoever else's name you spilled that came from the Yankees farm system between 1996-2003 shows that the Yankees HAVE had the talent and developed them. They just got traded after a couple of years playing in the Bronx. Who says they have to keep them?
Anyways, at least you are willing to concede that all the team's best prospects have been dealt over the past decade, which is something more than what softy could concede.
You keep asking us to concede that all the best talent over the last 10 years is depleted. You want that, you got it. IF you want us all to admit that such amazing talent as Nick Johnson, J.T. Snow, Rickey Ledee, etc are lost, you got it. NO problem there whatsoever. I think who they have brought in are fairly adequate replacements for the murderers row they have blundered and traded away the past 10 years. IT is a crying shame they let all that talent loose and have nothing to show for it except a post season appearance every year for over 10 years.
Your crying rant over who they have from 96-03 is just so insanely obsurd that it ALMOST surprises me. Who cares who they have from those years is the point. Who argued that the Yankees didnt sign high priced free agents ? Who cares that they do ? Maybe if some teams went out and spent the millions in revenue sharing dollars the Yankees filter throughout the small markets instead of being greedy selfish fools then they would be in the playoffs every year too.
Please, just one day let us come on here and find you talking about YOUR team instead of tirelessly digging for something to say about the Yankees. It is weak, much like your arguements and supporting evidence for your claims. Quit crying about all the attention given to the Yankees when you are the worst culprit on here when it comes to talking about them.
-- Yogi Berra
Lothar, none of you guys understand a damn thing. All of this talk about the Yankee farm system during a time period of 6 World Series appearances is STUPID. Do you realize Cano didn't play a day in Triple AAA. Did you even know who Wang was? Please, all of the sudden you are Mr Columbus Clipper?
Axtell, and this IS about the Mariners, Red Sox, etc. What were these teams doing during this time period huh? CERTAINLY not wininng anything. Why not? Because the Yankees were! Were the farm systems of these teams too PATHETIC? Of course they were! Far worse than the Yankees.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>Lothar, none of you guys understand a damn thing. All of this talk about the Yankee farm system during a time period of 6 World Series appearances is STUPID. Do you realize Cano didn't play a day in Triple AAA. Did you even know who Wang was? Please, all of the sudden you are Mr Columbus Clipper? :Funny. >>
"Hey Columbus CLippers RIng your COWBELL MAN" The freaking theme song is enough to make anybody puke!!! My points are....they stated that prior to 96 they did have talent in the farm team of the AAA as evident on the numerous clippers cards i have..which i believe ive sent a few people here during our trades...and no...Cano and Wang I did not see come up or down or anywhere the last 4 years....IVE BEEN IN MEDICAL SCHOOL. Missed the ballgames but know for sure the clippers havent done crap and attendance is way way down. I do not believe its a lack of talent scouting because they simply had alot lower draft picks, and I dont think they traded much great talent away either.....Nick Johnson,Ricky Ledee, and Soriano for Arod....i mean that aint exactly selling the farm. Axtell believe that all these old superstart veterans we have on the yanks is due to SELLING OUT....which simply is not the case. That is my point.
Edit: Its moreso that we will buy out..and will CONTINUE to BUY OUT all stars that might bring another championship. Its no different then back in mantle's days us taking all the talent from KC Athletics...where did maris play in 59??? I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH IT.. YEEEEEHAW!!!
AND YES..i am Mr. Columbus Clipper ya SMARTA$$....
Columbus Clippers are the best team around...
Columbus Clippers we will never let you down...
No matter if we're winning, we'll always play them well...
Columbus Clippers.........YOUR FREAKING BELL!!!!!! YEEEEEHAW!!!!!
No, the original POINT here was that Rivera blew a save! Talk about derailing a thread!
Steve
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i> [
Edit: Its moreso that we will buy out..and will CONTINUE to BUY OUT all stars that might bring another championship. Its no different then back in mantle's days us taking all the talent from KC Athletics...where did maris play in 59??? I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH IT.. YEEEEEHAW!!!
>>
Now you nailed it ya heritage geek
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
I'm a little embarrassed by my Blue Jays performance yesterday. Hard to believe Josh Towers won 13 games and had a 3.71 ERA last year. He is getting lit up this year (0-5, 10.40 ERA). Too bad, he's a likeable guy and a real standup guy. Makes no excuses. The Jays bullpen has been taxed in April. Too many innings. Gibbons had to feed two kids to the wolves (McGowan and Marcum) yesterday. I pity being a 23-year-old and having to face Damon, Jeter, Sheffield and A-Rod.
It's the rubber match today. I'm not feeling confident. Mussina vs. Chacin. Mussina had pitched well. Chacin is 4-0, but with a 5.11 ERA. May the best team win my friend!
Mike Mussina looks really strong. He is healthy and has command. I won't bring up his MINISCULE ERA (with the AL curve) just yet as it is early. Plus, with all the woes the Yankees pitching has had so far they are in the top 5 in all of baseball in runs allowed. Still very early but I am encouraged.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i> It's been almost 6 years since the Yanks won a WS, and rant and rave about this great "nucleus" all you want - but those teams won with free agent pitching acquisitions...from Clemens, to Mussina, to Wells and others...without that pitching, you can take all of Jeter's "intangibles" and they amount to nothing. >>
I had to take special notice of this ignorant statement. Again sorry CT, I like you but it is what it is. You say the Yanks won those World Series with who and what? Mike Mussina WAS NOT around for ANY of those series brother and Andy Pettitte STOLE THE SHOW in so many post season games. It is quite AMAZING that you would leave that home grown product who pitched the Yankees to victories over the Braves TWICE, the Padres and the Mets. Of course that is what makes it baseless
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240