MS-67 Low Leaf State Quarter Sells for $4,750 - Is it a Tulip?
Pushkin
Posts: 2,029 ✭✭✭
Are the 2004-D Wisconsin Extra Upper and Lower Leaf State Quarters the next 1955 DDO or just an example of another tulip craze where the bubble is ready to burst?
Wisconsin Low Leaf NGC MS-67 $4,750!
Last week the same variety coin was going for about $3500 and the week before for $1,750, all on eBay.
Wisconsin Low Leaf NGC MS-67 $4,750!
Last week the same variety coin was going for about $3500 and the week before for $1,750, all on eBay.
0
Comments
BTW, Dave Bowers confirmed the Red Book listing to me at Baltimore. I hope they used my picutres.
<< <i>I love this hobby it makes me smile.
I love this.. Board....it makes me Laugh....!!!!!!!!!!!!!............................
Assuming that to be the case, you really have a coin worth around $2,000 TOPS IMHO (assuming it is PCGS-MS66 quality). And, as Rick commented, roughly $5,000 3 pc. NGC sets with the 2 errors in there (tops I believe).
So, IMHO, you have a $2,000 (even say $2,500 tops based upon Rick's asking price) coin which just sold for $4,750. Based upon that, the price is rediculous IMHO. So, why are collectors paying this much for this particular error? Frankly, I have no idea - for the same money they could have bought a 1943 DDO Wash Quarter in BU where a handful or so are known to exist.
Wondercoin
My opinion is that there will be no more of these found and that these will
be widely collected by millions of people. This should translate to long term
value. If the mint could prove they were inadvertant or if more turn up then
they might not be so widely collected or of interest.
<< <i>How can this bubble burst?
According to everyone here, the Modern market-which is teletrade, ebay, and their imaginations will never burst! >>
We are merely waiting for a cogent and logical argument about why moderns
won't be collected or supply and demand are much different or of a different
nature than is apparent. Without these arguments there will be a lot of peo-
ple who will continue collecting this crap. Indeed, even if you find some logic
and facts there will still be people collecting these coins.
I can't tell the difference between a MS65, 66 or 67 for these things, regardless of PCGS, NGC or ANACS plastic. Would appear the prices are based only on the number and the plastic? I've looked at about 12 - 14 of them and see almost no difference in the coins themselves.
Wonder what the crackout guys think?
<< <i>This is the question.
My opinion is that there will be no more of these found and that these will
be widely collected by millions of people. This should translate to long term
value. If the mint could prove they were inadvertant or if more turn up then
they might not be so widely collected or of interest. >>
Cladking I somewhat disagree?!?! There might not be more of these around say by the millions ...only by the thousands.The reality is they left the mint ..That's all that matters and they are in the publics hands....................
"Live long and prosper"
My "How I Started" columns
<< <i>
<< <i>This is the question.
My opinion is that there will be no more of these found and that these will
be widely collected by millions of people. This should translate to long term
value. If the mint could prove they were inadvertant or if more turn up then
they might not be so widely collected or of interest. >>
Cladking I somewhat disagree?!?! There might not be more of these around say by the millions ...only by the thousands.The reality is they left the mint ..That's all that matters and they are in the publics hands....................
I didn't mean to imply that every specimen released by the mint has been graded or
accounted for. I merely meant that it is only just now becoming apparent that there
will be no more release points. It's not out of the realm of possibility that some of these
were intercepted before they got o circulation but it is extremely improbable. It's diffi-
cult to picture anyone going through balistic bags while still in FED custody.
There probably are a thousand or so of each in circulation but this number could be some-
what lower or higher. There are probably around another thousand of each in the hands
of Tucson area people who found them in change.
It has become pretty unlikely that quantities of these will show up.
BST successful dealings with:MsMorrisine, goldman86
anyone who will argue otherwise is quite delusional.
argh. this is an error. edited. misread it!
<< <i>a tulip for sure.
anyone who will argue otherwise is quite delusional.
10 gazillion minted.. seriously. think about it for a second. >>
Cheap shot deleted in edit.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
And why is that? Its not like there are millions of them out there. Why do people pay hundreds of $$ more for Morgan VAM's which are at first glance no different than the millions of other Morgans of the same date/MM and made the same way except for a die crack or a die chip or a tiny dot of metal? I don't see the Morgan VAMMER's getting the third degree every time they post about some minute tiny teeny little difference. There is no mystique or mystery around ANY Morgan VAM like there is on these leaf error quarters.
<< <i>How can this bubble burst? >>
High Leaf / Low Leaf ?
Now that's what Coin Collecting is All about!
Hail yeah!
And since I'm a collector, I could care less what the coin will bring me... I do get a tremendous amount of joy looking at them.
I really don't think most of the ultra-modern collectors will ever get deep into classics, even $200 for a PR69 DCAM cent (ultramodern issue) is (way) less than one night out with the gf.
On some level... we have been spoiled rotten by the high quality of the mint...
I'd give you the world, just because...
Speak to me of loved ones, favorite places and things, loves lost and gained, tears shed for joy and sorrow, of when I see the sparkle in your eye ...
and the blackness when the dream dies, of lovers, fools, adventurers and kings while I sip my wine and contemplate the Chi.
And, I like the extra leaves as well
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Camelot
I could care less if some one wants to buy an extra leaf and pay that kind of money for it, quite frankly its their business, but to not also realize that a large share of the coin collecting community is shaking their heads about is being less than genuous. No one really knows where demand and therefore prices will go for this kind of stuff so to be skeptical about that kind of price should be expected.
Edited to add: BTW I purchased a 78 CC just a half hour ago graded MS 63 for less than three of them are being offered for sale by Heritage and I believe it to be a VAM. I will know when I get it in hand.
<< <i>Ah the coin forum, never let it be said that facts and logic get in the way of a point of view. Comparing this with vams is ludicrous. They might with perhaps an exception or too add 25% to the value of the coin. No one I know pays $4000 plus for a vam and to say so is borderline unexcusable. Morgans and vams have also stood the test of time and a collecting base and a rising collecting base has grown up around them.
I could care less if some one wants to buy an extra leaf and pay that kind of money for it, quite frankly its their business, but to not also realize that a large share of the coin collecting community is shaking their heads about is being less than genuous. No one really knows where demand and therefore prices will go for this kind of stuff so to be skeptical about that kind of price should be expected.
Edited to add: BTW I purchased a 78 CC just a half hour ago graded MS 63 for less than three of them are being offered for sale by Heritage and I believe it to be a VAM. I will know when I get it in hand. >>
There are not millions of people collecting VAMS. Many people who collect moderns
collect these as part of the set. Also check the Morgan dollar listing. The 1879-S
reverse of 1878 has about a $22,000 premium to the regular coin in high grade.
I don't know any better than anyone else what this coin is "really" worth, but do
know that supply and demand determine the price and writing off a great coin with
a great story just because it isn't old makes very little sense.
<< <i>Comparing this with vams is ludicrous. They might with perhaps an exception or too add 25% to the value of the coin. No one I know pays $4000 plus for a vam and to say >>
I said hundreds of dollars not $1,000's of differences between VAM prices tho I spose there are some that are worth a lot more than a few hundred for one VAM over another.
<< <i>cladking I am not arguing against moderns, I collect them too and I also pointed out with exceptions so what is your point about my post I missed it? State quarters are what 7 years old? Nothing wrong with collecting them at last count I approximately 1600 of them, probably more. Did you pony up the $4700 for that quarter and if not why? >>
I would pay market price for this coin if it were more affordable. I am not in the market for this coin at the current time and price but not because I expect it to go down.
they are simple errors as the mint has said but most believe these were done intentionally and
unofficially.
If you believe it was done by mint employees on a lark then it is of far more interest then if you
think it's an accidental error. It looks as though we already have as definitive an answer as we'll
ever get so again it's "to each his own". Certainly if everyone felt these were accidental then the
comparison to VAM's would be very appropriate.
Its just hard to imagine to most of us getting $4700 of collecting pleasure out of owning one. Whereas finding a vam just adds to the coolness factor. Its a history of that die etc.
I guess you could call it a die marker.
I don't collect moderns except for a few low priced proofs that I think are attractive. I think the Wisconsin quarters are one of only three or four States quarters that aren't ugly. I also collect a few varieties and I like the up and down leafs and bought a few for fun when they first became available. That said I don't understand prices like $4,750 for a NGC MS-67. I've seen no difference in real grade between most of the MS-65 to MS-67 coins that I've owned in either NGC, PCGS or ANACS plastic - just my opinion - but it looks like the number on the plastic is the primary reason for the prices of the 67's?
People should collect what they want and enjoy. I hope these leafs don't become coins for people who can't afford very high risk investments since autumn usually follows summer. My gut feeling is the MS67s are tulip bulbs, but that is just a gut feeling.
<< <i>When people post here about VAM's the get a pat on the back for a discovery, but when mention is made of paying big money for an error coin like a leaf quarter they get taken to task. Why is this? >>
I used to be a serious collector of Indian Head cent varieties. Collecting them was fun and exciting but when I wanted to get out it was exceedingly difficult if not impossible to get out even 70% of what I put into them on average (Cherrypicker's prices for most are a sad joke if you are selling). Maybe some of the complaints are based on jealousy and sour grapes?
and the price guides. Those which are get widely collected. This has been a growing
field for decades probably because mintages now are high enough to make regular
issues of little interest in typical grades. As time goes on I would expect more and more
of these to get listed and more interest. This will apply to all coins but especially to the
20th century issues and more especially to circulating varieties. Any coins which can
be found in quantity will be more likely affected than types which are expensive in all grades
or seldom seen.
<< <i>Why because the price is what astounds folks, when is the last time you saw a VAM sell for anything like that? It's the MONEY word
Uh.....there are VAMs that have sold for much more than that coin did.
<< <i>Why because the price is what astounds folks, when is the last time you saw a VAM sell for anything like that? It's the MONEY word >>
How much do some of the really scarce/rare VAM's sell for?
<< <i>
<< <i>Why because the price is what astounds folks, when is the last time you saw a VAM sell for anything like that? It's the MONEY word
Uh.....there are VAMs that have sold for much more than that coin did. >>
Didn't say there weren't in fact in a previous post I mentioned there are exceptions, but not the vast majority of them.
<< <i>
<< <i>Why because the price is what astounds folks, when is the last time you saw a VAM sell for anything like that? It's the MONEY word >>
How much do some of the really scarce/rare VAM's sell for? >>
Have no clue not interested in them, collecting is relative cheap fun for me.
<< <i>
<< <i>Why because the price is what astounds folks, when is the last time you saw a VAM sell for anything like that? It's the MONEY word >>
How much do some of the really scarce/rare VAM's sell for? >>
Depends on the VAM...any of the really big 1878 8TFs (9, 14.5, 14.6, 14.7, 14.9, 14.11, 14.12, 14.13, 14.14...and there are others) would bring at least $5k in mint state in a PCGS holder. There was a Vam 9 not too long ago on Ebay that went for $9K plus in a PCGS 63 holder and a 14.9 that went for around $9k in I believe a 63DMPL holder.
<< <i>Try this post again, seems to be lost in cyber space, I recall a 78 in 61 a vam a 44 selling for close to 3 grand. But morgan varities have been collected and recognize long before the word VAM was used, hardly seems possible that its 50 years more or less. Out of 2000 plus varieties not many will command those kinds of price premiums. But I reckon if you can find a morgan with extra corn leafs it might.
You'll find it hard to purchase a mint state Vam-44 these days for anywhere near $3k. As far as not many varieties commanding premiums I guess it depends on what you consider to be "not many". There are at least 15 1878 8TF varieties that bring very substantial premiums. Also the Vam-44 just mentioned. The Vam-32, also one of the so called 7/8 varieties commands a big premium as does the Vam-45. Several of the 1880-P overdates, the 1880-P "knobbed 8" variety, the major "E" on reverse varieties, the 1888-O "Hot Lips", "Scar Face", 1887-P "Donkey Tail" and there are a number of others.