First Strike Racket

jdcheers · February 28, 2006 11:36AM

Am I the only one that thinks the marketing of first-strike coins as a bit of a racket? Can anybody really tell the difference? Sheesh.

DickyBetz · February 28, 2006 11:38AM

The first strike designation is ridiculus and any TPG that uses it should be ashamed, IMO.

Bear · February 28, 2006 11:43AM

First strike would be meaningful,if you were standing

by when the new dies were placed and caught the first coin in a

gloved hand, then had Mint officials document the first strike fact.

billboat · February 28, 2006 11:44AM

<< The first strike designation is ridiculus and any TPG that uses it should be ashamed, IMO. >>

I agree--IMO first strike should be just that--the first strike from a die pair---not the first 1000 or first box of 5000, etc. A total rip off IMO. Shame on NGC, ANACS, PCGS or any other TPGS that uses this designation.

wondercoin · February 28, 2006 11:52AM

FYI - In the case of Platinum coins from 2005 (the first year of FS) - I believe the non-FS coins are worth slightly more money (perhaps even quite a bit more money in a case or two) than the FS coins. So, there isn't much of a "racket" when it comes to First Strike Plats. In fact, some might suggest the "bit of a racket" is on the non-FS coins.

Wondercoin

robertpr · February 28, 2006 12:04PM

I agree, the TPG's should be ashamed. However, since they ALL do it, there really isn't egg on anybody's face. IMO it would have been a great marketing move for at least one of the TPG's to refuse to do this, and then point out how rediculous it is.

The flag holders and other gimmics are pretty lame, too. They're unprofessional and unflattering to the services.

goose3 · February 28, 2006 12:06PM

they are going to do what makes them money.

if there were not people lined up to buy into this, they would not do it.

I have said all along, I want a "Last Strike" just to be different.

Bear · February 28, 2006 12:09PM

Its just bussiness and an honest buck

at that. If folks want to buy it, so be it.

robertpr · February 28, 2006 12:18PM

Striking, isn't it, how people hoot and hollar about the crap that gets pulled by the home shopping channels, but noone cares about the TPG's producing the stuff that feeds it?

ER · February 28, 2006 12:24PM

<< Striking, isn't it, how people hoot and hollar about the crap that gets pulled by the home shopping channels, but noone cares about the TPG's producing the stuff that feeds it? >>

It might surprise you, but those that don't buy these crap are the ones that cares. And some even educate newbies about it, too. It's all about education, supply, and demand.

Conder101 · February 28, 2006 10:54PM

<< any TPG that uses it should be ashamed, >>

I'm sure they ARE ashamed, all the way to the bank.

xphobe · April 27, 2006 1:41AM

Racket or no, there is a company GIVING AWAY first strike silver eagles in a full page ad in the NRA magazine this month. I ordered one, it cost me $10 for shipping which is less than its melt value. Figure I can't go wrong.

Bochiman · April 27, 2006 2:53AM

<< FYI - In the case of Platinum coins from 2005 (the first year of FS) - I believe the non-FS coins are worth slightly more money (perhaps even quite a bit more money in a case or two) than the FS coins. So, there isn't much of a "racket" when it comes to First Strike Plats. In fact, some might suggest the "bit of a racket" is on the non-FS coins.

Wondercoin

>>

Why? Why do non-FS plats get more $?

INXS · April 27, 2006 2:55AM

<< 

<< any TPG that uses it should be ashamed, >>

I'm sure they ARE ashamed, all the way to the bank. >>

Gemineye · April 27, 2006 3:53AM

The first strike from which hub from which obverse of what reverse..................

cullenbryant · April 27, 2006 4:06AM

<< The flag holders and other gimmics are pretty lame, too. They're unprofessional and unflattering to the services. >>

Except they have educational value for those who never paid attention to the flags of the states.

Bochiman · April 27, 2006 4:13AM

<< 

<< The flag holders and other gimmics are pretty lame, too. They're unprofessional and unflattering to the services. >>

Except they have educational value for those who never paid attention to the flags of the states. >>

Agreed, the flag holders do have a "coolness" factor for some. Nothing wrong with that, imho.
For my son's birthyear set, I tried to get all flag holders as I thought it would be cool learning for him.

The 1st strike designation IS total BS.
Full disclosure: I do have some since they have been the same price, or less, and offered early on when I wanted our SAE slabs.

Would I pay extra for them? HELL NO!
This year's 1st strike MS69s from PCGS have looked terrible, imho....more like MS67!!!!

shirohniichan · April 27, 2006 4:24AM

I remember seeing an article about the "first strike" 1878 Morgan given to President Hayes. I would pay a premium for a coin like that with proper documentation.

messydesk · April 27, 2006 4:30AM

<< I remember seeing an article about the "first strike" 1878 Morgan given to President Hayes. I would pay a premium for a coin like that with proper documentation. >>

As would most people. PCGS would never slab the Hayes coin, though, since it's been harshly cleaned.

PerryHall · April 27, 2006 4:31AM

<< The first strike designation is ridiculus and any TPG that uses it should be ashamed, IMO. >>

messydesk · April 27, 2006 4:31AM

<< I agree--IMO first strike should be just that--the first strike from a die pair---not the first 1000 or first box of 5000, etc. A total rip off IMO. Shame on NGC, ANACS, PCGS or any other TPGS that uses this designation. >>

It's not even that. It's the first truckloads out of the mint for the year. It has nothing to do with being first off the dies, as far as I know.

flaminio · April 27, 2006 4:32AM

<< Am I the only one that thinks the marketing of first-strike coins as a bit of a racket? Can anybody really tell the difference? Sheesh. >>

Dude, what up with the icon, eh?

TorinoCobra71 · April 27, 2006 5:38AM

<< The first strike designation is ridiculus and any TPG that uses it should be ashamed, IMO. >>

Bidness........DickyBetz is quite correct!

TC71

jdcheers · April 27, 2006 5:40AM

flaminio

Sorry bout that. The Uncle Sam I was using was also taken. I guess I'll have to keep looking. BTW, how did this old thread get brought back?

wondercoin · April 27, 2006 5:49AM

"Why? Why do non-FS plats get more $?"

PCGS slabbed roughly 700-800 First Strike MS69 2005 $100 Plats, while PCGS slabbed less than (50) non-FS MS69 $100 Plats thus far -which is why the First Year issue non-FS MS Plats tend to command a bit more money than FS. Now, also bear in mind one additional detail - the 2005 $100 MS Plat is the LOWEST mintage MS coin in the history of the MS Platinum, Gold or Silver Eagle program standing at fewer than 6,300 worldwide mintage. Compare this, for example, to the mintage on a 1998 $100 MS Plat at more than 133,000 or a 1999 $50 Gold Eagle MS at more than 1,500,000.

Wondercoin.

CalGold · April 27, 2006 6:13AM

<< the 2005 $100 MS Plat is the LOWEST mintage MS coin in the history of the MS Platinum >>

Sounds like fewer people ordered them last year than in the past. Rising bullion price=fewer people willilng to pay the price. That seems to me to denote that a lot of the platinums were being sold to people were speculating on the price of the metal and were not interested in collecting them as a series.

CG

aficionado · April 27, 2006 7:46AM

I was selling some Franklin Comm. and I got a question from a potential bidder:

Do your coins show any sort of cameo appearance that would possibly discern them from any later strikes? And do you know if there is any other way for someone to tell, say 5 years from now, that these were minted first; before the ones others are waiting to receive from the mint? Thank you for your help.

My Answer:

Honestly, I haven't looked at them. They go from the box I got them in, to the box I'll mail them in. There's no way to tell these were minted first. FYI, Mint die's are changed a lot, lets say after every 10,000 coins, because of wear. So theoretically, a coin minted today with a brand new die, could be better than a coin minted a month ago, but was the last coin of a worn die. It's just the luck of the draw. Most coins collectors think -first strike- is just a marketing gimic.

He bought the coins.

FatMan · April 27, 2006 8:26AM

Frankly, it is unethical and that is troubling to me. They have taken a numismatic term and redefined it without clarification at the point of purchase.

From Coinfacts.com - first strike: the first coin, or one of the earliest coins, struck from a pair of dies. These are usually Prooflike, well struck and nearly perfect.

The TPGs are defining the term by the calendar, not die use. I see no difference between what PCGS is doing and what Hager and ACG did with using ANA grading terminology but self defining the terms.

TwoSides2aCoin · April 27, 2006 9:33AM

Aye !

racket implies a bit of fraudulent activity

We are civilized men of law. Can't we at least use the correct term ? It is not a racket, it is MARKET MANIPULATION or what some refer to as "making a market".

When the orb biz loses a little buzz, a new MANIPULATION happens (wisconsin leafs, FIRST STRIKES, Waffle Registry sets

)

How about that Red Book listing a 2001 P Kennedy at $10.00 while the US MINT still sells them ? Is this a racket or what ?

wondercoin · April 27, 2006 9:43AM

"Sounds like fewer people ordered them last year than in the past. Rising bullion price=fewer people willilng to pay the price. That seems to me to denote that a lot of the platinums were being sold to people were speculating on the price of the metal and were not interested in collecting them as a series."

Actually, my research suggests another possibility. The high mintage MS $100 Plats of 1997-1999 may have been linked to the govt. retirement programs requiring physical coins to back up the actual retirement contributions. But, this is getting a bit OT, so I can save the details for another thread. Bottom line is (IMHO) there continues to be virtually no First Strike premium whatsoever pertaining to Platinum coins. For example, PCGS-MS69 non-FS (4 pc) sets of 2005 Platinum (first year of FS program for plats) are trading today at $25/set above the FS level.

Wondercoin

Bear · April 27, 2006 10:05AM

How about a "Last Strike". The very last coin minted

from a series. Now, that would be something.However,

I would need some mint authority, like the janitor to certify

the coins authenticity.

Gemineye · April 27, 2006 11:20PM

<< How about a "Last Strike". The very last coin minted

from a series. Now, that would be something.However,

I would need some mint authority, like the janitor to certify

the coins authenticity. >>

Probably his observations as a ..fly on the wall ..would shed some light on some of the mints so called errors...............!!!!!!!

Conder101 · April 29, 2006 8:48PM

<< It's not even that. It's the first truckloads out of the mint for the year. It has nothing to do with being first off the dies, as far as I know. >>

Even worse, for the silver eagles try the first FIVE MONTHS worth of production. They stated striking the 2006 coins in Sept of 2005 and all of them from then through Jan 31 2006 are eligible for the First Strike designation.

And I don't believe all of the TPG have fallen for the "First Strike" foolishness. ANACS, PCGS, and NGC have, but I don't believe I have seen "Frst Strike" coins from IGC, SEGS, or PCI. If they have made them, hey've been few. No, this scam has mainly been set upon the hobby by the "industry leaders".

ER · April 29, 2006 8:50PM

<< 

<< any TPG that uses it should be ashamed, >>

I'm sure they ARE ashamed, all the way to the bank. >>

Too funny.

First Strike Racket

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