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Do you think PCGS is grading Ultra Conservatively ?
STEWARTBLAYNUMIS
Posts: 2,697 ✭✭✭✭
My answer is ABSOLUTELY.
Do you think they should lighten up a bit ? ABSOLUTELY
I'll tell you why.When dealers buy coins for resale they grade and price the coin and not the holder.When I am insulted by the grade I receive vs. the price I paid....guess what ......the price to the collector is rising vs. the grade on the holder.
What do you think ?
Stewart
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Comments
Freak
Unless one wants to "play the upgrade game", why would one want PCGS to loosen up?
Check out some of my 1794 Large Cents on www.coingallery.org
every treasure on Earth
to be young at heart?
And as rich as you are,
it's much better by far,
to be young at heart!
majority of the coins they grade.
there are exceptions of course...
<< <i>PCGS (as well as NGC) makes lots of money of resubmissions. If they were 100% accurate all the time, there would be no need for crackouts or crossovers which would mean lost revenue. >>
It almost seems to go along with why car maufacturers don't make a car that will be reliable for 200k miles consistantly.. They would lose money from people not buying a new one sooner than later.
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
PCGS (as well as NGC) makes lots of money of resubmissions. If they were 100% accurate all the time, there would be no need for crackouts or crossovers which would mean lost revenue.
Exactly. It's all about the money. If you put most of the submissions in significantly undergraded holders those coins will come back (with a check included). It's a beautiful business plan.
Jack
Stewart
<< <i>There was an article in Forbes magazine about collectors universe.Does anyone have a link ?
Stewart >>
The links and stories from there and other sources were posted in another thread but have been removed by a moderator.
<< <i>i like how PCGS grades. They are consitently conservative on the
majority of the coins they grade. >>
That begs the question again, though.
Do we want conservative or accurate in terms of what makes the best TPG?
I could start ZCGS (Ziggy29's Coin Grading Service) today and consistently undergrade all the submissions by (say) three grades.
What would be the value of coins in ZCGS slabs? Eventually, if the market accepted that the coins were consistently way undergraded, the "value" of a ZCGS MS-62 might be far greater than even a PCGS MS-63. Thus at any given grade level, ZCGS plastic would fetch a large premium.
The problem is, a lot of people seem to think that would make ZCGS the "best" grading service -- because they grade "conservatively" and because their slabs fetch the most money at any given grade level.
Maybe ZCGS is consistent. Maybe ZCGS is conservative. But they would definitely NOT be the best TPG because they aren't *accurate* graders even if they were consistent.
<< <i>Here is a good example of too tight... This coins used to be in a MS66 NGC holder and was cracked out and submitted and now resides in a PCGS MS63 holder.
From the picture the coin looks64 or 63. Certainly not 66. Why ? Looks like a soft strike on the obverse. Chatter on the cheek and chatter in the field. Would you expect a 66 if this is present ? Not I.
Ken
I have a few sacagaweas that I have had graded, along with Gold Indians and cents. Now it's true, I've only been submitting over a year. But, I have sent many coins in for REGRADE, requiring a crackout.
I will not say conservative or liberal, I'll leave that remark to politicians, but I will say:
The standard seems to have a certain RULE. If it has hairlines, it's gonna get hurt. If it has luster breaks, it's gonna get hurt. If it has weak die strike, it's gonna get hurt. If the eye appeal is lacking under a good light source, it's gonna get hurt.
Opinions or facts ? I want facts.
Grading is subjective , but with RULES.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>
<< <i>Here is a good example of too tight... This coins used to be in a MS66 NGC holder and was cracked out and submitted and now resides in a PCGS MS63 holder.
>>
From the picture the coin looks64 or 63. Certainly not 66. Why ? Looks like a soft strike on the obverse. Chatter on the cheek and chatter in the field. Would you expect a 66 if this is present ? Not I.
Ken >>
I didn't say I thought it was a 66... I was just stating what holder it was in... The coin should be a 64 with a shot 65... NGC is too liberal on Washington Quarters anyway.. as well as lincoln cents, which reflect in the prices on these series.
<< <i>Hearing the same complaint(s) over and over makes me think they are consistant. Isn't that all that has been asked of them?
Unless one wants to "play the upgrade game", why would one want PCGS to loosen up? >>
I agree with the consistency part. While coins may be coming back a grad lower than desired if it consistenly comes back with the same grade then tightness is good because you know what to expect when pricing a coin.
<< <i>Here is a good example of too tight... This coins used to be in a MS66 NGC holder and was cracked out and submitted and now resides in a PCGS MS63 holder.
Looks better than a 63 but less than a 66.
i want conservative. I do not want AU58 coins in MS62 slabs.
PCGS price guide for half eagles in MS60-63 have slowly been
going down because of that stuff going on. (grade inflation.)
there will never be an accurately graded coin because grading
is an opinion. So instead of being wrong on the high side,
allow PCGS to err more on the low side. Hence conservative
grading.
buy the coin not the holder fits prefectly with PCGS style
grading. If you wish to buy the coin for a lot more then
they would ever guarantee it for, that is your choice to
make as a collector.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Here is a good example of too tight... This coins used to be in a MS66 NGC holder and was cracked out and submitted and now resides in a PCGS MS63 holder.
>>
From the picture the coin looks64 or 63. Certainly not 66. Why ? Looks like a soft strike on the obverse. Chatter on the cheek and chatter in the field. Would you expect a 66 if this is present ? Not I.
Ken >>
I didn't say I thought it was a 66... I was just stating what holder it was in... The coin should be a 64 with a shot 65... NGC is too liberal on Washington Quarters anyway.. as well as lincoln cents, which reflect in the prices on these series. >>
Sorry man but you said nothing about what you thought the coin grade should be in a PCGS slab. All you made reference to was the lame grade that NGC gave it. I guess Happy Talk would have worked better than the Truth.
Ken
you all already know what a coin grades you just want pcgs to price your coins so then you can get out of them to plastic registry set buyers
and so there are less obscene profits with "grading" arbitrage
IT IS NO LONGER A COLLECTOR MARKET JUST a fast money making business
and this is not good or bad just the way it is
and as some have commented on here it is getting to be more and more a raw coin market even though the coin slabbed the coin in most cases sells on its own merits
coins are trading hands in many price ranges for the same grade and holder!!
<< <i>pcgs does not grade coins they price coins >>
Hardly anybody on these boards understands the term Market Grading. Of the few that do... most do not understand that what the TPG's do is Market Grading.
NoEbayAuctionsForNow
Bruce Scher
He said, "why would you want to do that? We've seen most of those coins already."
Try to figure out THAT one!! ("we don't need to see your coins, Jay. They are fine just the way they are?
If I was out in CA at that time, I'd offer to meet you to buy you lunch JUST SO I COULD SEE THE SET IN PERSON!
<< <i>Do you think PCGS is grading Ultra Conservatively? >>
I thought only NGC grades Ultra Conservatively?
And PCGS grades Deeply Conservatively?
Photos of the 2006 Boston Massacre
I thought only NGC grades Ultra Conservatively?
And PCGS grades Deeply Conservatively?
LOL. GoYankees,
KJ
every treasure on Earth
to be young at heart?
And as rich as you are,
it's much better by far,
to be young at heart!
ever so gently is that the coins stood
a snowballs chance in Hell of being upgraded
in todays environment. I like strict grading. keep
up the good work. Except when it comes to my coins,
then you can loosen up a smidge.
Camelot
Camelot
I think it is about time !!!!
Stewart
I don't have a clue how they are grading right now, but based on what I've seen, they are far too liberal when it comes to grading mint state Barber Halves. Most 65s I've seen IMO should be in 3 holders. I'd say they are also too liberal when it comes to grading MS 64 & 65 Seated $s (though I haven't seen many of the latter), but not as much as with the Barber Halves.
If the nicest coin in the series out there is MS 65, then the coin IMO should be in a 5 holder.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
<< <i>Here is a good example of too tight... This coins used to be in a MS66 NGC holder and was cracked out and submitted and now resides in a PCGS MS63 holder.
judging from the pics, ngc was asleep when they graded it. im not even sure i would go 63 on that
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
PCGS tries to grade the coins as "high as possible." I believe HRH wrote this. But if so many "liner" coins are being graded conservatively ( i.e. NOT given the benefit of the doubt)I find "high as possible" not the case.
Really, WHO WOULD COMPLAIN if each of these coins were housed in PCGS holders grading 1 point higher?
<< <i>Look at it this way, if PCGS is ultra tight, any LOW END PCGS coin will be worth substantially more at some point!
There are too many PCGS graded coins from earlier years that are overgraded that would have to be taken off the market for that to ever happen in my view. Unforetunately, most of those coins end up on the selling block over & over again as collectors wise up that what they bought was not(& is not) worth what they paid for it. They just have to hope someone that doesn't know any better comes along to take it off their hands. Been there... done that... so, not beating any drum on my end. No comments on what I have seen so far in the new holders.
....and you could start by selling off some of that old junky silver you have
If they are grading tighter....I like it....and it needed to be done. Hopefully PCGS doesn't lose to much market share in the process. There sure seems to be qite a few NGC Slabs around these days.
I would agree with Stewart on a coin he showed me at FUN. I had no idea of why it was graded what it was, cleary it should have graded 1 point higher than it did. Stewart had good reason to be PO'd.
The quarter pictured earlier in the thread had such a messed up field at 3 O'clock I would never, ever, grade that thing 66. To me it is a near gem if it had the excellent luster; I think it must...
When the crack out artists go out of business I will say good, the TGPs are finally grading consistently and the market is doing good arbitrage between TGPs...
When people complain about ultra conservative, perhaps owners don't like consistency.
<< <i>If the nicest coin in the series out there is MS 65, then the coin IMO should be in a 5 holder. >>
Yeah, I agree. Take clad quarters example. If you tried to grade them the same as silver quarters, there would be no ms66 and ms67's of many dates, but pcgs set the bar much lower so ms67 would be the top grade all around. I think they then forget to tell that to some of the new graders they hire. It really stinks to have a coin you know is nicer than all of the known ones, yet it is graded two points under "worth" not even the slabbing fee.
<< <i>At least PCGS grades the same way all the time. JMHO. >>