I'm worried about GAI. They gaining strength at Fort Washington.
chaz43
Posts: 2,140 ✭✭✭
I don't know about you guys, but I was just at the Fort Washington show lat week and there were alot of GAI holders next to PSA. I would say they are definitely #2 and gaining strength. Alot of their prices were right there with PSA . They are the PSA of pack grading and I just wonder if PSA prices will start to fall in vintage as GAI becomes stronger. You also see alot of their holders on the big auctions much more so than Beckett and SGC. What do you think???
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If i recall, didn't all the good graders leave PSA to start up GAI? It appears alot of people have short term memory on this subject. I still see the same be'aching about grades people get now as before . Nothing has changed . I here it at the shows, on the boards, nothing has changed. I haven't seen any comments recently about the " Grader of Death". Did he leave recently too?
<< <i>If i recall, didn't all the good graders leave PSA to start up GAI? It appears alot of people have short term memory on this subject. I still see the same be'aching about grades people get now as before . Nothing has changed . I here it at the shows, on the boards, nothing has changed. I haven't seen any comments recently about the " Grader of Death". Did he leave recently too? >>
Carew
I think you're talkin about Mike Baker. Who is a great guy and superb grader with a bunch of knowledge.
The thing that a lot of people don't like is the customer service and the "dealer friendliness" that appears to be going on. I don't know myself.
mike
<< <i>Hey I don't want em. I am just saying that you all better get your head out of the sand and realize that these guys are for real. They are former PSA graders and I think everybody is starting to realize that. >>
at least you did not say y'all
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>...Nothing has changed . I here it at the shows, on the boards, nothing has changed. >>
...yup.
Rigth now, GAI sells for about the same as SGC, which is on average, about 15-35% less than PSA.
But, I'm a big fan of PSA (save for CS), as they have the best registry -- simple as that.
Don't forget about PRO, however: In my mind, a part of the "big 5."
Just wondering, are you a secretary or janitor over at GAI?
p.s. your company will be out of business as soon as PSA grades its first unopened pack sometime in the next few months.
<< <i>chaz43,
Just wondering, are you a secretary or janitor over at GAI?
p.s. your company will be out of business as soon as PSA grades its first unopened pack sometime in the next few months. >>
I agree. I am curious, however, at what took PSA SO LONG to get in the pack-grading game?
<< <i>Are you nuts???? BVG does not sell anywhere near the amount of GAI and SGC is way behind. I think I saw one BVG card in a showcase at the show. BGS is modern - I don't care about modern and PRO is total crap. >>
You must be a GAI whore. To set the record straight:
I was joking about PRO -- duh.
Like it or not, the exact same card graded by BVG (if post-1970) will likely sell for more than PSA. I don't agree with this and the market should correct once people realize how crappy BGS/BVG is, but that's how it stands currently.
You think GAI sells for more than SGC??
<< <i>SGC was no where at the show. I am not saying they are not decent graders, but the big thing that GAI has going for it is thier pack grading and PSA has a ways to go on that but GAI is going to be around for a long time. >>
Be careful not to generalize the fates and eventual prices of cards graded by PSA, SGC, BGS, and GAI based on a single card show, which is what you've entirely done thus far. Very dangerous.
<< <i>Mike Baker is a very nice guy and I've heard for years about "dealer freindliness" from all card grading companies. I have also talked to other people about GAI customer service and they say it's very good. GAI 's booth was right next to PSA at the show and they (MIke Baker etc.) were grading right out in the open and they were very busy. All I am saying is that PSA better be aware of GAI and maybe PSA can learn some things from GAI. >>
Chaz
I'm referring to "lost" packs for grading from more than one source where the way it was handled reached the point of lunacy.
I know this first hand and have no axe to grind with GAI - but fair is fair - and IMO, the way they handle incoming items for grading on the pack side of the house leaves much to be desired.
It can be corrected easily IMO - but the way these people were jacked around is just plain silly.
mike
<< <i>SGC was no where at the show. I am not saying they are not decent graders, but the big thing that GAI has going for it is thier pack grading and PSA has a ways to go on that but GAI is going to be around for a long time. >>
Chaz
SGC is marketing to a specific niche and doing very well.
Attending shows is expensive and not always worth the trip - I would guess.
So, let me ask you this - why come here now to a PSA board and ask these questions?
It's akin to me walking into Coke headquarters and asking them about Pepsi?
mike
<< <i>Be careful not to generalize the fates and eventual prices of cards graded by PSA, SGC, BGS, and GAI based on a single card show, which is what you've entirely done thus far. Very dangerous. >>
Look man- I've been around a long time and I am not basing everything on one show. Look at ebay genius and the big auctions. GAI is getting serious money in the vintage market and alot of it is due to the fact that these guys are former PSA graders and know what they are doing....so there. Keep your powder dry bro...........
<< <i>Be careful not to generalize the fates and eventual prices of cards graded by PSA, SGC, BGS, and GAI based on a single card show, which is what you've entirely done thus far. Very dangerous.
Look man- I've been around a long time and I am not basing everything on one show. Look at ebay genius and the big auctions. GAI is getting serious money in the vintage market and alot of it is due to the fact that these guys are former PSA graders and know what they are doing....so there. Keep your powder dry bro........... >>
I was going to look on eBay for you to disprove what you're saying based on a local card show, but I couldn't find enough GAI results...
GAI has great guys/graders yada yada yada ... something isn't right with that company.
<< <i>I was going to look on eBay for you to disprove what you're saying based on a local card show, but I couldn't find enough GAI results... >>
You are nuts. Just type in GAI bro and there is a ton there. Look, all I am saying is to watch out for vintage GAI. They are already bigger than BVG and SGC and that's a fact.
If you work for GAI, start a real website, a working registry, and stop the "potential customer" house call visits ... it seems that every so often a brand new CU member comes on and starts a GAI thread.
If you are a newbie, than you will soon realize that PSA is king and that SGC is arguably the most trusted name in the industry. GAI does not compare to either company.
says who and according to what?
<< <i>If you work for GAI, start a real website, a working registry, and stop the "potential customer" house call visits ... it seems that every so often a brand new CU member comes on and starts a GAI thread. >>
Hey Mr. Beagle ( yeah , goin' to the bowl again eh....) . I am not a newbie, all I am saying is that GAI is comin on and no I don't work for them. God....you guys get defensive.....
<< <i>i was at the show & gai did have more peole at there table then psa. >>
<< <i>They are already bigger than BVG and SGC and that's a fact.
says who and according to what? >>
And how convenient is it that you exclude the other Beckett grading divisions? Heard of BGS? Not saying I respect BGS, but if you're going to compare apples to apples, you need to include all of Beckett's grading services.
GAI may be respectable as a grading company - I can't say one way or the other, as I have very little experience with their product - but as a force in the marketplace I think they have a LONG way to go:
The web site sucks - how long did the Forums section say "Coming Soon!" before the just gave up on the idea?
Their registry is a joke
I don't like their holders
I hear far too many allegations of dealer favoritism and the infamous "half-point bump" - true or not, this is negative press that doesn't help them
<< <i> he web site sucks - how long did the Forums section say "Coming Soon!" before the just gave up on the idea? >>
You are entitled to your opinion.....
GAI - hey, send em your cards. Rumor has it they need the business. And this is not an attack on you
I for one was very interested in GAI when they first came out. That changed over the first year, and slammed shut over the past year. I can personally vouch for dealer inventory being switched back to PSA slabs, because the half point bump didn't sell.
I have heard tremendous things about Mike Baker, and based on the one conversation I have had with him I would agree with their take on him.
Too bad he is there
The bottom line is that all three grading companies-- I'm not including Beckett-- do a reasonable job of grading cards, and one isn't much different than the other. Are GAI's standards a little inconsistent? I think so. That 'pristine' '52 Bowman Mantle they slabbed was a little cheezy, considering that it was off center, and I've seen plenty of GAI 7.5's at shows which looked like they'd be solid 6's in a PSA or SGC holder... but on the balance I have no reason to believe that their operation isn't being run by a group of knowledgable sportscard enthusisasts. And it's not like PSA's hands are clean, lest we forget some of the debacles that have sprung up around PSA slabs in the past five years.
One thing that never ceases to amuse me are the members of these boards who proudly proclaim that they 'buy the card, not the holder', then in the next breath announce that they 'only buy PSA slabs'. Wha? I'd like to see a new era of collecting ushered in whereby people put together 'Frankenstein sets' that contain slabs from all the major companies-- it would loosen PSA's strangehold on the set registry, which would be a good thing, and be a step towards getting the hobbyists back to the kind of 'card first, holder second' mentality that will better serve the hobby in the long run.
<< <i>I have heard tremendous things about Mike Baker, and based on the one conversation I have had with him I would agree with their take on him. >>
You just destroyed your whole argument Mr. Beagle ( Jeff Lurie is a huge dope, he should have hired Vermeil, the Beagles would already have won a super bowl.)
<< <i>
<< <i>I was going to look on eBay for you to disprove what you're saying based on a local card show, but I couldn't find enough GAI results... >>
You are nuts. Just type in GAI bro and there is a ton there. Look, all I am saying is to watch out for vintage GAI. They are already bigger than BVG and SGC and that's a fact. >>
Quick peruse of eBay,
1958 Topps Mantle #150 in PSA 7 vs. GAI 7 grade:
8730354041 (GAI 7) = $761
8734041320 (PSA 7) = $850
========================================
1958 Topps Mantle #150 in PSA 7 vs. GAI 5 grade:
8729891602 (PSA 5) = $335
6580350263 (GAI 5) = $190
There are numerous examples.
These were extremely easy to find and are consistent with GAI vs. PSA pricing.
<< <i>One thing that never ceases to amuse me are the members of these boards who proudly proclaim that they 'buy the card, not the holder', then in the next breath announce that they 'only buy PSA slabs'. Wha? I'd like to see a new era of collecting ushered in whereby people put together 'Frankenstein sets' that contain slabs from all the major companies-- it would loosen PSA's strangehold on the set registry, which would be a good thing, and be a step towards getting the hobbyists back to the kind of 'card first, holder second' mentality that will better serve the hobby in the long run. >>
"Which I certainly think might happen" chaz
PS
Now this man know what the hell he is talking about !!!!!!
how? By agreeing with others that Baker is a good guy? He seems to be so.
Too bad he works for GAI, as that ship has sailed and basically has started to sink ....
leave the Eagles out of it ... there is a sports forum. If you want to gain support for your boys at GAI, learn how to act professional.
How much does a Brittney Spears GAI 9.5 go for nowadays? I remember them hawking the hell out of those at one time
<< <i>
<< <i> he web site sucks - how long did the Forums section say "Coming Soon!" before the just gave up on the idea? >>
You are entitled to your opinion..... >>
Actually it's a fact that they couldn't get a simple thing like an Internet message board running. It's also a fact that sportscard collecting is a Web-dominated business. If you can't come up with a functional, user-friendly web site with features that bring customers back again and again, like a message board, you need to rethink your entire marketing strategy or you will be doomed to failure.
Edited to add: Would I buy GAI graded cards? As long as it's not for one of my PSA registry sets, and the price is right, sure. I have, and I would again. Would I ever submit cards to GAI for grading? Not a chance. I can't find a single compelling reason to do so. PSA and SGC get my business.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i> he web site sucks - how long did the Forums section say "Coming Soon!" before the just gave up on the idea? >>
You are entitled to your opinion..... >>
Actually it's a fact that they couldn't get a simple thing like an Internet message board running. It's also a fact that sportscard collecting is a Web-dominated business. If you can't come up with a functional-user friendly web site with features that bring customers back again and again, like a message board, you need to rethink your entire marketing strategy or you will be doomed to failure. >>
I think one should buy the card - since if you find a "diamond" in a GAI holder that sold for less, you can crack and resubmit it to PSA if you like.
This can easily wind up back in the "who grades" better/fairer/higher category and stuff.
I have no problem with any of the big grading companies.
Have cards from all of them.
I think some will always be incredulous to someone who has less than 10 posts since 2003 - out of the blue - coming on and asking questions about GAI on a PSA board.
mike
<< <i>
<< <i>I have heard tremendous things about Mike Baker, and based on the one conversation I have had with him I would agree with their take on him. >>
You just destroyed your whole argument Mr. Beagle ( Jeff Lurie is a huge dope, he should have hired Vermeil, the Beagles would already have won a super bowl.) >>
?
How old are you anyway?
Most everyone here knows the deal about GAI - good and bad. Mostly the second one. So, unless you have an interest in turning all of your PSA 8's into GAI 8.5's, there is nothing to see here.
<< <i>Why did you guys get all worked up over a newbie poster, who is obviously on here just to try and stir the pot about GAI?
Most everyone here knows the deal about GAI - good and bad. Mostly the second one. So, unless you have an interest in turning all of your PSA 8's into GAI 8.5's, there is nothing to see here. >>
I agree.
Sometimes, it's just something to do.
I tried to question the motives but was ignored.
mike
Anyone who would buy an unopened pack slabbed by GAI, after reviewing the above thread, in my opinion is throwing away good money.
There is a main reason when a product sells for more money in the marketplace than another "similar" competitive product and that main reason is QUALITY. There are exceptions in other industries such as pharmaceuticals for example with generic drugs whereby this isn't always true - for example aspirin is aspirin no matter what is the brand name.
The marketplace has had plenty of time to digest PSA, SGC and GAI. None of these are new companies. Yet PSA overall consistently comes out on top - those are the facts whether one chooses to believe the facts or not.
Hey you use who you like. For me it's service and T cards Gai fits the bill for me. Registry or dealers/parttime dealers use PSA. tHATS WHAT WORKS FOR THEM. This is how it should be. People always have SGC which also is top notch.
I actually like these topics because an exchange of idea's is alway's healthy and would not want to see any of them fail. If so we most likley would be paying much more to get our cards graded.
Wow.... enough for now, Time for breakfast with Santa at the firehouse.
T206's are always being bought.
aloof1003@comcast.net
<< <i>I think some will always be incredulous to someone who has less than 10 posts since 2003 - out of the blue - coming on and asking questions about GAI on a PSA board. >>
Give me a break - who care what you think turkey.....
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I have heard tremendous things about Mike Baker, and based on the one conversation I have had with him I would agree with their take on him. >>
You just destroyed your whole argument Mr. Beagle ( Jeff Lurie is a huge dope, he should have hired Vermeil, the Beagles would already have won a super bowl.) >>
?
How old are you anyway? >>
HOW OLD ARE YOU??????
<< <i>
<< <i>I think some will always be incredulous to someone who has less than 10 posts since 2003 - out of the blue - coming on and asking questions about GAI on a PSA board. >>
Give me a break - who care what you think turkey..... >>
OK, it's time to take off the gloves.
First you insult the Eagles. If you are not man/boy enough to go back to Ft. Washington and announce your opinion to the crowd there, then keep your piehole shut about the Eagles. Where do you live, Reading.....Pottstown? If you live within the Philly city limits then move. Sounds like you're bashing Lurie for a reason other than his ownership of the Eagles.
If you have been around so long then let us know who you are. Turn on your PMs and let members see your profile. Until then...what...I can't hear you...shut your piehole. It is your opinion that is neither needed nor wanted here. Others have the ability to engage in intelligent debate, you seem to lack that capability. Stay on the porch son.
Finally, you have now attacked one of the most level headed and impartial members of this board. From here out you can expect your posts to be answered by silence or ridicule, take your pick.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I think some will always be incredulous to someone who has less than 10 posts since 2003 - out of the blue - coming on and asking questions about GAI on a PSA board. >>
Give me a break - who care what you think turkey..... >>
OK, it's time to take off the gloves.
First you insult the Eagles. If you are not man/boy enough to go back to Ft. Washington and announce your opinion to the crowd there, then keep your piehole shut about the Eagles. Where do you live, Reading.....Pottstown? If you live within the Philly city limits then move. Sounds like you're bashing Lurie for a reason other than his ownership of the Eagles.
If you have been around so long then let us know who you are. Turn on your PMs and let members see your profile. Until then...what...I can't hear you...shut your piehole. It is your opinion that is neither needed nor wanted here. Others have the ability to engage in intelligent debate, you seem to lack that capability. Stay on the porch son.
Finally, you have now attacked one of the most level headed and impartial members of this board. From here out you can expect your posts to be answered by silence or ridicule, take your pick. >>
Look man, I don't know why all you guys are getting so worked up about this??? Just chill man......relax ...... life is good.