PCGS green label - what does it mean?

JDelage

I understand those are old labels. How should I think of them wrt a gold eagle graded MS63? Should I discount the grade, or to the contrary did they use to be more conservative than now? Or are they consistent for this coin / grade?

Thanks, JD

ER

You judge the coin on its own merit, not based on the color of the label.

calgolddiver

I concur - judge the coin ... not the label.

many try the marketing ruse - green label - upgrade potential ...

don;t buy the hype ....

JDelage

OK but... With this said, what is the generally accepted thinking on that?

Barry

The general thinking is:
"You judge the coin on its own merit, not based on the color of the label" - ER

ER

<< <i>OK but... With this said, what is the generally accepted thinking on that? >>


What calgolddiver said.

Coinhusker1

<< <i>OK but... With this said, what is the generally accepted thinking on that? >>



There was a perception a few years ago that green holder PCGS coins were conservatively graded. The perception now is that most of the conservatively graded PCGS green coins have been cracked out and upgraded, leaving mostly fairly graded and overgraded coins in the green holders.

JDelage

<< <i>There was a perception a few years ago that green holder PCGS coins were conservatively graded. The perception now is that most of the conservatively graded PCGS green coins have been cracked out and upgraded, leaving mostly fairly graded and overgraded coins in the green holders. >>



Thanks, that's the info I was looking for.

Myqqy

Recently, I've been noticing more and more old pcgs holdered coins that are real dogs. I'm starting to believe that all of the undergraded and eye appealing examples have been put into collections or cracked out. But of course, there are still large numbers of lame sellers who keep hyping every old holder as some sort of pq gem.

fc

i wonder why no one has mentioned that an old green label
means someone has not messed with the coin inside for years.

would that not mean something for toned coins? knowing it will
not change?

what about cents changing from red to brown? if in a OGH and still red, well that is a good sign yes?

Shamika

Coinhusker1 summed it up well.

Shamika

<< <i> i wonder why no one has mentioned that an old green label
means someone has not messed with the coin inside for years.

would that not mean something for toned coins? knowing it will
not change? >>


While there is some validity with regards to stability, you can't tell with coins that do not have extremely attractive toning. The coin may have turned while in the holder.

majorbigtime

i don't get excited about OGLs--!st gen "rattlers" are different (better) IMO.

roadrunner

I call it opportunity. Whether it knocks or not depends on the coin.
On an eagle the coin is ALMOST CERTAINLY WORTH MORE MONEY HOLDERED AS SUCH........PERIOD. I'd offer you $65 above going bid rate for the $10 LIberty you have.....sight unseen. IF they are from fresh sources they are usually nice or even better for the grade.
If you buy it from Joe Recycled Dealer then likely not anything special. Ebay has nice ones every day as a rule just on gold. To those that say bunk..it's just a clearer field for me. Slabbed gold has let pitfalls than other denoms and esp now when it's hot.

I have yet to find the % of quality green tag coins shrinking. I run into them every week in many series....esp gold since there are thousands and thousands of green tag gold coins around. Finding a doggy green tag gold coin is hard imo. some of the MS61-63 saints can be "trappy" but usually anything higher is fine. Other denoms I see far less low end gold coins. When they show up in my local dealers shop they are almost without exception nice for the grade or PQ. Yeah, but we can still judge the coin by itself too...it helps.

Please offer me your green tag bust, seated, barber and gold coins.

But usually a green label holder just means the label is green...that is unless it is a Bondman Morgan which then usually has a green label that appears "yellow."

roadrunner

oreville

Interesting: I just did an experiment with old hype!

I sent some emails to old and newer friends and acquantances, most who are quite knowledgeable collectors.

The first email stated that I had some coins in old green PCGS holders (not rattlers) and the other email to the same exact friends and acquaintances mentioned that I had some PCGS slabbed slabbed in the past two years and last month would any of them be interested in a look & see?

I sent 25 emails from one email account which is my oreville account and 25 from my oreville21 account. Here are the results:

old green PCGS holders:============= 25 emails sent - 33 responses (many respondents sent multiple responses)
2 years old and last month PCGS holders:= 25 emails sent - 10 responses (no multiple responses)

So anyone who says it is all hype probably doesn't practice what he preaches!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have seen the same thing at coin shows, I had put out 15 PCGS green inserts (not rattlers) in a glass cage next to the 15 blue PCGS insert holders and observed the results over a 4 hour period. Three times as many people always asked to see every one of the PCGS green insert slabs before asking to see a SINGLE PCGS blue insert holder!!! This flies totally in the face of the naysayers who think that there is no longer any general perception that the older non-rattler green holders are more desired by collectors.

cape

you still need to know how to grade ,although i agree with roadrunner that the old green holdered coins usually have more eye appeal

Coxe

The coin is the coin is the coin. Last month, I sent off dozens of OGH/OYH Morgans to PCGS for their new variety attribution service for retagging without a second thought. I did hold back the 1st generation "rattlers" though, so I am not entirely consistent with the philosophy I guess.

BillJones

Three to five years ago, a green label on a PCGS holder often signified a PQ or undergraded coin. This was not a foolproof sign because there are overgraded and problem coins in green label holders. You still needed to know how to grade to avoid getting stiffed.

I agree with the others that a lot of the PQ and undergraded coins have either been cracked and regraded or are sitting in collections. What we mostly see now are the dregs. I’ve got a number of green label PCGS coins in my collection that will have to be cracked and regraded before I can sell them. It’s the only way to go if you want to get a fair price in today’s grade inflated market.

nankraut

fc said:

i wonder why no one has mentioned that an old green label
means someone has not messed with the coin inside for years.

would that not mean something for toned coins? knowing it will
not change?

what about cents changing from red to brown? if in a OGH and still red, well that is a good sign yes?

Coxe

Agreed. It is like the ANACS situation. A lot of their PQ stuff has been crossed at the top 2 TPGs already. It makes their grading look less conservative than it used to. I used to buy great coins in their slabs at relative bargains but the frequency isn't anywhere close to what it was a decade ago. Same goes for the OGHs. If there is a bigtime upside in a point grade boost, no borderline or PQ coin lasted in dealer circulation very long without going for the upgrade. Dogs OTOH will stay in their slabs with their overgraded tags. I see AU sliders with MS62 - MS64 tags from all of the services here and there. Better believe those are going to stay certified UNC.

cohodk

I just had a green label copper coin sent to me on approval. It was in a PF67 holder. It would grade no better than 65 today.

calgolddiver

Oreville -

An outstanding experiment regarding the perception and current state reality of OGL market. Reality speaks for market perceptions.

My reference to the 'hype' is that many offers that I see in OGL in many cases reference the fact that the coin is an OGL and an upgrade potential.

Again as your experiment indicates from the show - you gotta evaluate the coin.

IrishMike

Here is a green label cent, anyone care to make a guess on the grade?

Fletcher

It also depends on the coin. Generally, I would rather have a CC Morgan in an older holder because the grading standards tended to be more strict back then. However, I would not want a CC DMPL Morgan in an old holder because the depth of the mirrors required to be considered DMPL has since been increased.

rhedden

I recently purchased an untouched box of PCGS green label barber dimes that were certified in 1989-1990. They have not been picked over. The 1895-O in PCGS MS-63 is better than most MS-65 coins in blue holders. On the other hand, a few PR-62 coins in the set have obvious hairlines, and I doubt they would even slab today. This kind of situation is what leads people to think that the green label coins are conservatively graded; there are surely some big upgrades waiting to happen in a "fresh" deal like this. However, there are surely some other coins mixed in that are overgraded.

On the other hand, a green label coin on a dealer's table at a show is a whole different story. It says "don't buy me, I'm not worth sending in again." Dealers know whether to re-submit a coin or not, and if they left it in the green label holder, there's a reason for it. It's either low-end, or it isn't worth the money to re-submit. If the coin has been floating around at shows for 10 years, and nobody thought to re-submit it, then the grade may be as high as it's going to get, and maybe too high.

I guess what I'm saying is that it depends to a large extent on who has the coin and where it has been.

Djord

<< <i>I concur - judge the coin ... not the label.

many try the marketing ruse - green label - upgrade potential ...

don;t buy the hype .... >>


When I sell I will mention the holder type, old green holder, or flag series for state quarters. or standard for state quarters.
I have had 2 returns, one the old green holder which the buyer stated he wanted the new holder, and two a state quarter
which was in the standard holder and the person wanted the flag holder.
I just try to be descriptive and honest.
On one old green holder sale I did mention possible upgrade on a morgan dollar which was graded MS64, and I felt
it was a nice MS65.The coin sold for about 4% more than what a 64 normally sold for.
My main concern has always been to satisfy the buyer, and I have done this so far 594 times with no negs.

Honestly

So basically there seems to be a lot of rumor and innuendo. It doesn't seem that there is any consensus on the meaning or value proposition for the green label. My question is... What was the company line from PCGS when they were offering the green label slabs? I can't see a grading company pushing a different color label to indicate their promise to conservatively grade the coin. Is that what people believe happened? PCGS said "pay a little more for green labels and will make sure that the coin is graded conservatively."

I have been told by just as many people that the green label was available at a lower cost for grading / slabbing the coin. So which was it... Did they charge more or did they charge less for a green label, and what was PCGS marketing riff?

Jzyskowski1

Dec. 6 2005. You might want to check which decade we’re in. I’ve noticed a number of 15-20 year old revival thread. I guess people are searching topics. Kinda fun to see not alot has changed. Welcome

jayPem

Will pcgs encapsulate old collectable holders inside of a new holder?
If I had a box of 20 ogh, doilies, rattlers etc... I would like them all slabbed together in one of those huge oversize holders.

Batman23

@Honestly said:
So basically there seems to be a lot of rumor and innuendo. It doesn't seem that there is any consensus on the meaning or value proposition for the green label. My question is... What was the company line from PCGS when they were offering the green label slabs? I can't see a grading company pushing a different color label to indicate their promise to conservatively grade the coin. Is that what people believe happened? PCGS said "pay a little more for green labels and will make sure that the coin is graded conservatively."

I have been told by just as many people that the green label was available at a lower cost for grading / slabbing the coin. So which was it... Did they charge more or did they charge less for a green label, and what was PCGS marketing riff?

You don't choose to have your coins holdered in an old green holder or a new blue holder. Not counting the new green retro holder that is. These labels happened one at a time as time progressed. The old green labels were graded before the blue labels were born. Take a look at the history of holders and progression: https://pcgs.com/holdermuseum

Was the green label lower cost. Yes, just in the same sense that all services have become more expensive over time and inflation. The old green label has not been available since 1998, over twenty years now. The blue label "series" holder took over in 1998.

ricko

@Honestly... Welcome aboard. What is still true is this.... Judge the coin, not the holder/label. Those were major hype issues promoted for a long time. Cheers, RickO

CommemDude

Buy the coin of course.....On the other hand, when a collection of rattlers and OGHs comes to market from a collection that's been off the market for 20+ years, a feeding frenzy will ensue as many of these coins ARE undergraded by today's standards

breakdown

Cape hasn't been on the forum since 2013? I bought some nice Buffalos from him years ago...