Am I the only one who is losing interest because of gradeflation?

291fifth

I'm finding it next to impossible to find correctly graded coins. Raw coins are a total joke. Grading of them is as bad as ever, if not worse. Slabbed coins, even the major TPG's, have just too many marginal or just plain overgraded pieces in their holders.

I'm finding my interest in coins is fading fast. Am I the only one who feels this way?

kranky

Is it possible that a disproportionate amount of your focus is on grading? Have you considered looking at another area where a slight difference in grades doesn't mean a large price jump?

my3cents

To me, that's one of the challenges of collecting: finding coins that are in holders that have been graded correctly.

Buy the coin - not the slab.

ecos

The grade-flation is an issue worth complaining about here anf there, but it is not making me lose interest. As Kranky amd My3Cents said, I find tons of enjoyment out of finding the right coin in the right holder. Also, I by 50% of my coins raw. I find coins that I really like and then I worry about grading them.

Don't let it bum you out; It's all subjective

RYK

Yup

Sunnywood

Actually, I see overgraded vanilla widgets and product, but paradoxically, at the same time PCGS in particular remains too tight IMHO on drop-dead gorgeous classic coins with color and eye appeal. They will point to a tiny unseen tick here or there as the excuse for keeping the coin in a lower graded holder, while plain white product with just as many ticks ends up in the higher-graded plastic. I don't get this at all. it makes me think some submitters get treated better ... although I have always had faith that this was not so.

Example: I have a 1900-S Barber quarter PCGS MS67 that is fairly generic, and I grade the coin a 66. it is white, without fabulous luster, and has some abrasions. At the same time I have a screaming 1900-O quarter with killer luster and amazing original color and fewer marks than the 1900-S. This coin is truly a knockout. They graded it 66. I would switch the two grades in a heartbeat. I see this all the time ... generic product getting high grades, fabulous coins being held back.

Sunnywood

kranky

After thinking about this a bit, I guess it's roughly the same thing as saying prices are too high.

If a coin cost $500, and you thought it was worth $500, you'd buy it regardless of the grade - we all would. If that same coin is priced at $1000, you wouldn't buy it regardless of the grade.

291fifth

<< <i>After thinking about this a bit, I guess it's roughly the same thing as saying prices are too high.

If a coin cost $500, and you thought it was worth $500, you'd buy it regardless of the grade - we all would. If that same coin is priced at $1000, you wouldn't buy it regardless of the grade. >>



I see coins, at their present prices, as poor values for the money.

BlindedByEgo

<< <i>I see coins, at their present prices, as poor values for the money. >>



And there we close in on the crux of the matter.

And that, sir, is where you and I agree. Although I've not lost so much interest as have gotten choosier. And stingier

InYHWHWeTrust

Could it be a more of a sampling phenomenon (anecdotal report) rather than across the board overgrading? Meaning, the coins going up for sale now are the ones which folks know are overgraded and folks are holding onto more 'accurately' or conservatively graded coins? Like trying to give away the "old maid"--that old card game?

Just a thought.

Don S

mgoodm3

I'm always amused by the complaints by some of gradeflation and then others are complaining about PCGS being too tight. Well folks, what's the story?

291fifth

What's this PCGS you are talking about? When I go to local shows or dealers these days I am blinded by the white, if you get my meaning.

pharmer

I lose interest in submitting when grading gets tight and undergrading is prevalent, like now. You're probably just concentrating on finding undergraded coins too much, and the occasional overgraded one sticks out. No need to lose interest in collecting, or quit, maybe you just need a break

mgoodm3

Ah, well then you just gotta hunt for the elusive PCGS, and then pay a premium for correctly graded coins.

Edit: Yes, there is a lot of white out there.

MrEureka

I think that gradeflation makes the game more interesting because there are many more coins to buy and upgrade. On the other hand, as a dealer, I'm not thrilled about the amount of aggravation and multiple grading fees it takes to get a coin upgraded.

elwood

<< <i>I'm finding my interest in coins is fading fast. Am I the only one who feels this way? >>


Me Too!!!



<< <i>I'm always amused by the complaints by some of gradeflation and then others are complaining about PCGS being too tight. Well folks, what's the story? >>


Being tight now has nothing to do with the millions of coins that have already been graded.

If the TPG's have tightened up, it will be good for the hobby in the long run. Some of the loose grading standards of the past could destroy collectors confidence in the TPG's and thus the hobby.

elwood

The more I think of it...I'm not loosing interest. I've become increasingly frustrated at current pricing and grading.
I'll buy that special coin at the right price but overall my major buying is currently on hold.
It has ceased to become enjoyable for me with the levels coins are at.

Here's a couple examples...any wreath cent, they common, common, common. 1796 Quarters are another coin, while not common, just not worth $20,000 to $30,000 in Fine.

The market is starting price out many collectors.

TahoeDale

Grade inflation has little effect on my buying habits, other than paying(if at all) a lot less for an overgraded coin I need or want.

And paying a premium for the really nice 66 that Sunnywood refered to in the earlier post. I remember buying from him a MS64 quarter, beautifully toned, for more than one might pay for a 65 of the same date.

So it all has to do with pricing. Nice bust halves in 65, where you can find them, sell for about the same, if PCGS, as more wealky struck NGC 66's.

While NGC grades a ton of coins correctly(IMHO), there is an amazing difference in the lib nickels in MS 67 graded by these 2 top notch services. Many of the NGC 67's have weak stars and corn, but vibrant luster. Most of the PCGS 67's are fully struck, with either luster or great toning.

But prices for PCGS 67's are double or more the prices obtained by NGC holdered coins in this denomination.

The market(buyers and sellers) will determine the price to be paid. The services can grade coins anyway they wish, and except for generics, should not have much effect on the knowledgeable buyers of rare coins.

Would the coin market be more robust if all coins graded by all the services were uniform? I doubt it.

mercurydimeguy

<<I'm not thrilled about the amount of aggravation and multiple grading fees it takes to get a coin upgraded. >>

Sometimes, to the extent of taking a good chunk of the value-add locked in....

Baley

The grades don't bother me. People can call a coin by whatever number they want.

It's the price-inflation that is making it hard to find coins I can afford.

elwood

<< <i>The grades don't bother me. People can call a coin by whatever number they want. >>




<< <i>It's the price-inflation that is making it hard to find coins I can afford. >>


Grades normally don't matter to me....I won't hesitate to spend extra for a properly graded or PQ coin.
What bothers me is watching people overpaying for an overgraded coin and obviously buying a number on the plastic and not the coin.
The problem with gradeflation is that higher prices is a result because of people buying plastic.

Here's an example. FUN 05 Auction, coin in an PC-58 holder, sold for around $50-$60K??....3 months later same coin, now 61-62 holder?, realized at auctioned $80-$90K. Same coin different plastic??

michael

Am I the only one who is losing interest because of gradeflation?


YES!!

time to collect study the coins and not the plastic

ziggy29

On one hand, I think it sucks and it's hurting the hobby.

On the other hand, from the standpoint of acquiring coins I like, I don't care if a coin I think is a PQ MS-63 with nice eye appeal is in a 65 holder -- if I like the coin and can get it for a fair price relative to what I think it is (a PQ 63), I buy the coin.

Of course, not many people will sell a top-tier slabbed 65 for 63 or even 64 money...and in an auction, many less discerning people will probably bid it up to darned near 65 money anyway. THAT to me is what's discouraging -- you can't get a high eye-appeal overgraded coin for close to what the coin really should be worth any more.

kranky

<< <i>you can't get a high eye-appeal overgraded coin for close to what the coin really should be worth any more. >>



I wonder if this applies specifically to more expensive coins or if it's across the board.

BillJones

I am unhappy about “grade-flation,” but it’s not running me out of the hobby. The way prices are these days, I have save up long and hard to buy anything that is old and nice. “Grade-flation” makes it easier to keep my powder dry until the right coin comes along.

BBN

I used to love the slabbed because I was looking forward to building a nice PCGS buffalo set but now that the grading thing its becoming an ugly monster in the hobby I'm thinking about selling the few slabs I do have and just build a raw buffalo set based strictly on if I like the coin or not. Not sweating if it is MS63 or MS65 and maybe buying slabbed just for authentification purposes on rarities like dates an mintmarks or to insure that when I buy a three-legged buffalo that it is authentic.

BuffaloIronTail

BBN.........you make a good point.

My whole Buff collection is raw, except for a few I purchased Slabbed. I'm comfortable with the coins I have, but every now and then, I wonder what the Gods think.

I believe that most of the stuff I have is under graded by me. Now with this "market graded" approach to grading, I'm SURE of it.

I take a purist approach to my coins. I would not buy a rare date Buff in a slab with a blob for a head that has mint luster and grades AU.

That's just me. Somebody else will buy the slab and the guarantee of grade and be satisfied.

I've got one in the system now.........a 1934-D that has a great strike and has a chance to become a top pop coin. I had to send it, because by my grading, it's only a 64 or so.

Then I see these registry sets with 34-D's graded 66 that look way worse than the one I have.

I have to know what the Gods think.....so there you go.

You're better off raw and sane..................

Pete

nwcs

Alleged gradeflation hasn't cooled my interest, the cost of the series I'm interested in and having interests outside of coins is doing that.

BBN

No doubt Irontail. I bought 4 raw buffs the other day and was just as pleased as any slabbed ones i have. I also agree about how some pass as 64 yet there are soft areas. My main criteria I'm looking for now is a good strike or surface on the shoulder and hip and a full horn if my budget affords it. If that type of coin is out of my league then I'll gladly settle for one that I can afford.

Loki

I try to focus on obtaining PQ coins that appear to be undergraded by one or two grades.
Most likely I find I have have to pay a premium for these coins but that doesn't bother me.

I am not one to try for upgrades because I figure there will always be buyers for these coins
who are willing to pay a premium as I have if and when the time comes to sell.