I'm not feeling so confident about my coins right now

gil

I am trying to build my short set of walkers and must stay in an affordable range. I picked up a few within the last year. I got them at a fair price. I had really high aspirations for the 1941 I posted last week. I was very humbled to realize my aspirations of a 65 were quickly deflated and the consensus was a 63 or 64.

After looking at the pics over again and reading the comments posted I was very upset at my own inability to see these imperfections. and realized that my grading skills need to be seriously shapened. I would really like to know that I can pick out a raw 65 if I saw one in a tray mixed in with 63 and 64 grade coins. but now I am not very confident. I would hate to resort to buying pcgs slabbed coins in the grade I desired only to have the grading already done. Not to mention the "thrill" of knowing you picked one out sent it in and it came back as you hoped, reassuring that you can be accurate and consistent.

I also realize my other downfall is when I do see a coin that interests me is that my emotions take over and the ooh and ahh factor override the "I need to look at this more closely factor". that is until after I buy and notice something later and then get all upset that i didn't see "it" before.

coincommunity.com has grading practice where people put up pics just to prctice grading skills. I can be pretty consistent at times but I am not holding or buying the coin and the "oooh and ahh factor" is not there. Also if I make a mistake it no big deal since its only a picture.

Thanks for listening. I need to practice more.

-Gil

BlindedByEgo

I'm with you. But in truth, the "oooh and ahhh" factor isn't that bad, if you think of it as an honest opinions of eye appeal. I think that the real trick is to become discerning of true eye appeal, understanding a little more about what that constitutes. For example, if I show a non-collector friend a harshly-cleaned Morgan dollar, blast white with polished surfaces - to him, that has great eye appeal. He neither has knowledge of or understands the subtle nature of a lustrous original toned coin, and may even look at a gem example and remark that it's tarnished! Look at a lot of coins, and give it time. Not one collector has gone through his or her career without being fooled on a grade.

For me, it seems to happen with stunning regularity

But surely, don't give up. Temper your emotions, yes - but don't become cynical. This IS supposed to be fun, a hobby, right?

LastExitInNY

I have no real grading skills as of yet. I know if its crap or not but I cant tell you XF from Good without looking for the requirements for the grade. Sometimes an 80 year old coin is just cool even if its worth 10 bucks. But thats me, I'm weird and not a high value collector.

gyocomgd

Gil, you sure do stress about coins a lot. It's part of your charm. You should relax and just immerse yourself in the hobby. It'll come to you, by and by.

Coinhusker1

<< <i>The more you look the better you get. >>



Yes, and the more you submit, the better you get as well.

From the coins you have had graded so far, try to figure out what the graders saw that you did not in the three basic grading components -- surfaces, strike, and luster. For example:

Surfaces -- On Walkers a lot of times there are hits on Miss Liberty and/or the Eagle that can easily be missed in the details on these devices. Also, graders seem to be less tolerant of hits in the fields on Walkers than, say, on Morgans.

Strike -- Gem Walkers are usually well struck and have full skirt lines and a split thumb on the obverse, full breast feathers on the reverse.

Luster -- The graders seem to love booming luster on Walkers -- less vibrant luster on a Walker with MS65 surfaces can easily grade 63 or 62 or even AU-58 if the coin is "overdipped".


If you don't have one, you might want to acquire a common PCGS 65 Walker to serve as a "reference coin".

Happy Hunting!!

BlindedByEgo

<< <i>

If you don't have one, you might want to acquire a common PCGS 65 Walker to serve as a "reference coin".

Happy Hunting!! >>





Great call, that.

Monstavet

My solution to this problem is to only collect circulated Walkers! Much more room for error, fun circulated coins that are still beautiful, and I can afford a whole lot more of them! Don't be too harsh on yourself. For every MS67, there were a lot of MS63s along the way. Enjoy your coins, and the learning that goes with them.

pursuitofliberty

Gil ... be patient ... if everyone could do it, where would the challenge be.

Practicing can be done in a variety of ways ... buying a few coins for a grading set is a good idea ... and here's another ... next time you're at a show see if you can get a dealer with some slabbed Walkers in your grade range to cover up the grades on a dozen of them, and ask him if you can sit and study them for 15 minutes to practice. Write your grades down as you look at each coin, and when you're done, reveal all the grades. See how you do.

A ten (or twenty) for his lunch and the offer to buy one for your new grading set (which you should probably have) should do the trick if he's not overly busy. Give him time and walk away while he's picking them out so you don't peek.

Just a thought.



edited to add this ... I think reference coin is a great idea, but one coin to study doesn't make you a grader ... practice, practice, practice ... be patient, take notes

MadMarty

Gil, you can always spend a week at Cameron's house. You will either become a great grader, or you will find yourself stalking the Olsen Twins!

razorface1027

By 2 Morgan dollars in raw condition and call me in the morning.

On a more serious note. I too, used to be that way. Wherein, zeal overtook the majority of the time. That "Ooooh and Ahhh" feeling, if you're a true lover of numismatics, will never cease. Personally, I hope it never leaves me. I get too damn emotionally discontent at times over certain coins that I end up having the strangest dreams over them. "Something's REALLLLLY wrong here!"



Tom

clw54

This is what the numbers on the slabs have brought us. We see a coin and initially like it for what it is, then we find things that will keep the number down and it prevents us from appreciating it.

Agonizing over a number. Think about it.

CarlWohlforth

I agree with the advice here.

It would be great to target a set of MS 63 Walkers that make you go oooh and ahhh. Try for coins that look to be 65s but try to pay 63 prices.

The more coins you look at the better you will get. Especially if you continue to look at the same dates within a series.

rjsriv

A tough coin to grade even by experts. The whole walker series is plagued by weak strikes and other problems .. for such a magnificent coin the only way I collect them is by proof and that is no easy thing. I have owned 65 and 66 and put them side by side with a sticker over the grade and have had some fun trying to get "experts" to determine which is which.Good luck with your set in business strikes -----again give me the proofs!!!!!!

<< <i>sometimes your the windshield , and sometimes your a bug- Either way your gonna have to be cleaned off >>

Stuart

Gil: I suggest that you use your eye for high eye-appeal to select the best looking MS-64 Walkers that you can cherry pick out of groups of MS-64's. That way you can pick out MS-65 Looking coins that may technically grade as high-end MS-64's for MS-64 money.

Use the plastic to leverage your price bargaining power, and use your developing grading skills to cherry-pick the better coins. This way someone else assumes the grading risk and cost. This will also help to sharpen your grading skills. That's what I enjoy doing with Morgan Dollars and Type Coins.

Don't get discouraged, just alter your strategy to fit your colelcting preferences, and your grading skill development.

MAD4MORGANS

Gil follow this link. It may help you a little on grading your Walkers (and other coins) CoinCentric-Grading Liberty Halves

Also Grading Mint State vs AU

RedTiger

Don't be discouraged. It takes an average collector years of looking at lots of coins to be able to grade with any consistentcy, especially to distinguish between MS63, 64 and 65. Taking classes, studying a lot of coins will accelerate the process, but virtually everyone has to put in his/her time.

For most beginner to intermediate collectors, I suggest buying coins at grades where the next grade down is not a huge price hit. The reason is that even for certified coins, there is a big difference in sight seen value for a nice MS65 and a "dog" 65. Separating MS64 from MS65 is difficult enough--it is twice as difficult when splitting grades.

For real beginners I suggest sticking to certified MS coins (big three services) unless the price is throwaway money for him/her. In my opinion, the cliche "buy the best grade you can afford," is one of the most dangerous ideas for beginner collectors. It helps the sharks unload their "dogs" to unsuspecting newbies, often at full retail price. "Buy the best grade you can understand," is much better advice for beginners, and even intermediate collectors. If a collector can't tell the difference between 64 and 65 it is not a good idea for him/her to buy up. The reason is that beginners will often end up with low end coins for the grade when buying certified coins at auction (Ebay, Teletrade, Heritage).

TwoSides2aCoin

Good post Gil. I am glad I am not the only one who's confidence is shaken with regard to grading (sometimes). However, I will continue to be confident in my ability to "ooooooooooooh and ahhhhhhhhhhh".

This thread reminded me of why Pharmaceutical Companies thrive they make good drugs for pain.

Excellent responses by many of you, especially Coinhusker and Stuart, MadMarty, PursuitofLiberty, BlindedbyEgo, and and and....all of ya

I will say this : PCGS usually verfies what I knew already. Rarely do I get suprised by a lower than expected grade. I've only been submitting for about 9 months, but I think it has to be perfect before I will send it in . ( perfect for me is anything over MS65 ).

Also, anything over MS67 most people cannot tell the difference, anyway ! Buy HIGH grade PCGS slabs of what you like to collect ..........and your grading skills will become FLAWLESS.

topstuf

You'd never marry a girl and ....THEN..... start asking about her looks.

Love em or leave em. Simple philosophy.

xbob

Here's a neat grading poster that Amos has Link

Real coins would be best for comparison of course. Maybe you can put together a "grading set" and get one graded and slabbed Walker of each grade in your learning range (63-66?) to examine in detail.

LastExitInNY

<< <i>You'd never marry a girl and ....THEN..... start asking about her looks.

Love em or leave em. Simple philosophy.
>>

Thats a classic.

my3cents

Try this...

Buy slabbed SGS, NTC, and ACG MS67 coins on e-bay and when you get them, crack them out and send them to PCGS. Take good photos and post them and we can all play "guess the grade". It'll be a great learning experience and you can buy those "other" slabs a lot cheaper.

Talk about fun!

Oh, and you may just accidentally get a true gem in the process.

SDCollector

Don't get caught up what I call hyper-grading. Unless you are buying coins with huge one-point differences in grade, don't worry about it. Coin collecting is fun...don't ruin it by getting stressed out about grading.