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Best Relief Pitcher Ever?

DirtyHarryDirtyHarry Posts: 1,917 ✭✭✭
in Sports Talk
Ok .... stats are stats. But, as we know, you gotta just forget it basis lifetime stats. Sandy Koufax is in the HOF....big decade of stats. So...Smith, Lyle, Page, Eckersley, Gossage, Others... and Rivera...who is/was the best?
Proud of my 16x20 autographed and framed collection - all signed in person. Not big on modern - I'm stuck in the past!
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Comments

  • softparadesoftparade Posts: 9,276 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm suuuuuure it can't be a Yankee! Not in this f---ing cess pool! image

    ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240

  • DirtyHarryDirtyHarry Posts: 1,917 ✭✭✭
    Proud of my 16x20 autographed and framed collection - all signed in person. Not big on modern - I'm stuck in the past!
  • thegemmintmanthegemmintman Posts: 3,101 ✭✭
    Does anyone even come close to Rivera's post season stats?
  • softparadesoftparade Posts: 9,276 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Mariano Rivera is the best relief pitcher I have seen. I tell you what though, over a one year period, was there anybody better than Rob Dibble !!!!!!!!

    ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240

  • AxtellAxtell Posts: 10,037 ✭✭


    << <i>Does anyone even come close to Rivera's post season stats? >>



    Best ever? Eck was pretty dominant, but it's tough to compare against the early specialists like Goose was pitching 2-3 innings...these cupcakes now with pitching just one inning got it made.
  • softparadesoftparade Posts: 9,276 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hey Ax, are they really cupcakes OR has the game just CHANGED

    ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240

  • AxtellAxtell Posts: 10,037 ✭✭


    << <i>I'm suuuuuure it can't be a Yankee! Not in this f---ing cess pool! image >>



    Then why are you here, if it's so bad?



    << <i>...over a one year period, was there anybody better than Rob Dibble !!!!!!!! >>



    Over a one year period, Eric Gagne was the most dominant.

  • CardsFanCardsFan Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭
    I'll go with Rivera. He has been dominant for so long. Many relievers are truly dominant for a few years and then just really good, Mariano has seemed to stay on the top of his game longer then anyone else.
  • ctsoxfanctsoxfan Posts: 6,246 ✭✭
    Why is it that many relievers today (like Rivera) make pitching two whole innings seem like they just climbed Mount Everest? On the rare occasion when they do, they are then not available to pitch for 2 or 3 days after that. It makes it tough to compare a guy like Rivera to a guy like Eck or Gossage, who typically would go 2-3 innings as a normal appearance.
    image
  • softparadesoftparade Posts: 9,276 ✭✭✭✭✭
    CT, Rivera has pitched two innings MANY MANY times, especially the first 6-7 years of his career and was available the next day. I'm not saying he was old school but he certainly was and is no cupcake. Pretty amazing from a guy with a small body frame.

    Mariano Rivera is at the very least, ONE of the greatest relief pitchers the game has ever seen.

    ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240

  • ctsoxfanctsoxfan Posts: 6,246 ✭✭
    I'd say Rivera is the best relief pitcher of his era, based on the way the game is played today. But, I would rate Bruce Sutter, Rich Gossage, Dennis Eckersley and Lee Smith as the top all-time relievers.

    I remember at the end of his career, with the A's, Eck had one of the best relief seasons of all time (his ERA was 0.61 in 73 innings pitched). He also won both the Cy Young and MVP awards in 1992, something no reliever has done since.
    image
  • softparadesoftparade Posts: 9,276 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I'd say Rivera is the best relief pitcher of his era, based on the way the game is played today. But, I would rate Bruce Sutter, Rich Gossage, Dennis Eckersley and Lee Smith as the top all-time relievers.
    >>



    image ahh, I really do like you Sox fans

    So, you are saying that the "way the game is played today" is of a lower caliber than say .... yesterday??

    ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240

  • AxtellAxtell Posts: 10,037 ✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I'd say Rivera is the best relief pitcher of his era, based on the way the game is played today. But, I would rate Bruce Sutter, Rich Gossage, Dennis Eckersley and Lee Smith as the top all-time relievers.
    >>



    image ahh, I really do like you Sox fans

    So, you are saying that the "way the game is played today" is of a lower caliber than say .... yesterday?? >>



    The work a reliever does today is indeed different than it was in years past, therefore, less important.

    I don't think he's saying it's a lower caliber, but relivers today aren't routinely putting in 2-3 innings of work.
  • softparadesoftparade Posts: 9,276 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    The work a reliever does today is indeed different than it was in years past, therefore, less important.

    I don't think he's saying it's a lower caliber, but relivers today aren't routinely putting in 2-3 innings of work. >>



    I agree that the work todays relievers are doing is different than in the past, BUT in no way is it any less important. If nothing else, the last three outs of a game are tougher to get in todays game than in the past. Hitters are much better from the top to bottom of lineups.

    ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240

  • dgbaseballdgbaseball Posts: 825 ✭
    Dick Radatz is the best relief pitcher ever.

    He had an autographed picture of him and Mantle, which Mantle signed "The greatest I ever faced". In 67 at-bats against Radatz, Mantle was struck out 54 times.
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  • dgbaseballdgbaseball Posts: 825 ✭
    p.s. And if the Sox of the 60s weren't the Royals of today, more people would acknowledge it.
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  • jamesyjamesy Posts: 132
    Rollie Fingers-Came in the game in the 7th or 8th and pitched more than 1 inning most of the time.
    Collect vintage basketball and baseball,graded rookies allsports, Robin Yount,Brewers,Bucks,Packers
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  • CollectorJeffCollectorJeff Posts: 5
    If differentiating between middle relief and closer ... would any of you change your answers?

  • 1420sports1420sports Posts: 3,473 ✭✭✭
    Mariano Rivera gets the slight edge over Eck/Gossage/Sutter and co ...

    Yankee fans - please stop whining about anti-Yankee sentiment. Your spokesman, Gemmy10, has created approx 90% of it.

    Let it go.
    collecting various PSA and SGC cards
  • dgbaseballdgbaseball Posts: 825 ✭
    If differentiating between middle relief and closer ... would any of you change your answers?

    No. Since there's no differentiating necessary in Radatz' case.

    Here's a fantastic article about Radatz from that guy who wrote the book about baseball's greatest pitching seasons:

    Radatz

    OK, obviously I'm partial as I'm a Sox fan, not to mention his unfortunately passing earlier this year (fell down a flight of stairs) and his notorious dominance of a certain NY team and their superstar of the times.

    But some stats to support the Monster...

    1964 has to be the best season a reliever (closer or middle or otherwise) ever had.

    16-9 record (no starts), in 79 games, with 29 saves, 157 innings (averaging nearly 2 innings per appearance), 181 strikeouts and 2.29 ERA.

    In his first 4 years he averaged about 12 wins, 25 saves, 135 innings, 150 strikeouts, and an ERA around 2.00 each year.

    I'd put that up against the best 4 years of any reliever. Of course, there isn't much more after that to his career and he didn't play nearly long enough (7 years) to really be considered the greatest if you look at his cumulative numbers. But it always amazing me how little consideration he does get when the topic of best reliever ever comes up.
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  • frankhardyfrankhardy Posts: 8,097 ✭✭✭✭✭
    He is not there yet, but I will tell you who may end up being the best ever - Brad Lidge! That guy throws some unhittable stuff. Barring injury, he will be one of the all time greats! That's coming from a Cardinals fan too! I can't stand it when he comes in!

    Shane

  • SkinpinchSkinpinch Posts: 1,531
    Hoyt Wilhelm is probably the best relief pitcher ever.

    Check out this consecutive year stretch for Wilhem

    IP.....109,93, 136, 131, 144, 81, 89, 93, 78

    ERA...2.30, 1.94, 2.64, 1.99, 1.81, 1.66, 1.31, 1.73, 2.19.


    Career 2,254 IP....2.52 ERA (League ERA 3.68). He didn't start being a MLB pitcher until age 29! Pitched until age 49! Heck, at age 46, 47 and 48 his ERA's were 2.19, 3.40, and 2.70, over a total span of 180 Innings!

    The man had one of the best prime stretches for a RP(as evident by that NINE year stretch), and certainly the best longevity among relievers. It is kind of hard for anybody to top that combination of Prime and longevity.

    Had 52 career starts.
  • dgbaseballdgbaseball Posts: 825 ✭
    And he was played so brilliantly by card collector supreme Tom Candiotti in Billy Crystal's putrid Yankee love fest 61*
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  • thegemmintmanthegemmintman Posts: 3,101 ✭✭
    Can we make the fairly safe assumption that when you pitch against teams in the post season you're pitching against the best teams for that year and not the riff raff of that year?


    Well Mariano has something like a .80 ERA in 110 innings pitched in the post season. Would you want to take a chance on any other reliever in history or Mariano with those numbers?


  • dallasactuarydallasactuary Posts: 4,326 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My nominees for the best seasons ever for a reliever would be 3) Radatz, 1963, 2) Lindy McDaniel, 1960 and 1) John Hiller, 1973. As a closer, Rivera has never pitched more than 80 innings in a season and his value to his team is simply not in the same ballpark as the relievers of the 60's and 70's; that's not his fault - the game has changed - but to credit him with as much value as Radatz or Hiller is to credit him with what he might have done with more innings, not with what he actually did.

    That said, Rivera is miles ahead of every other reliever in history in terms of post-season value, where his ERA drops over a run and a half, AND he averages over a half inning more per appearance than in the regular season.


    This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
  • SkinpinchSkinpinch Posts: 1,531
    Rivera may end up being the best. For a peak he probably is already.
  • MooseDogMooseDog Posts: 1,946 ✭✭✭
    I'm old enough to have seen the era of the relief pitcher develop from the 1960s to the present, and lucky enough to have been able to attend games in both leagues during that period. When it comes to single seasons, no one has yet mentioned Dennis Eckersley's 1990 season - try this out for size - 73.3 IP, only 4 walks, and a 0.61 ERA.

    As an A's fan we have been fortunately to have had two of the best ever grace the Green and Gold - Eck and Rollie Fingers.

    I would rank the top five of all time (career performance) and on personal observation thusly. Basically when these guys came into the game, it was OVER:

    5) Rollie Fingers
    4) Goose Gossage
    3) Bruce Sutter
    2) Lee Smith
    1) Mariano Rivera

  • AxtellAxtell Posts: 10,037 ✭✭
    Yet another way for Yankee lovers to ignore anything outside yankee land (Rivera's the best ever!).

    Look guys...some of the best ever NEVER wore pinstripes, contrary to your opinions.
  • softparadesoftparade Posts: 9,276 ✭✭✭✭✭
    yeah, Ax, unfortuantley for you some of the best ever DID and STILL DO wear pinstripes (Rivera)

    ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240

  • ctsoxfanctsoxfan Posts: 6,246 ✭✭


    << <i>When it comes to single seasons, no one has yet mentioned Dennis Eckersley's 1990 season - try this out for size - 73.3 IP, only 4 walks, and a 0.61 ERA. >>



    Incorrect - I mentioned this season right at the beginning of the thread.
    image
  • dgbaseballdgbaseball Posts: 825 ✭
    Best part about the Eck...

    Here in Boston, Radatz and Rico Petrocelli used to be on the local sports station. Of course, Eck lives in town and works the Sox pre/post game show on T.V. It was about 5-6 years ago and the guys on the radio show were talking about MVP and Cy Young awards, so it might've been 99 when many around here thought Pedro deserved the MVP. As the conversation drifted towards pitchers deserving MVP consideration in general, it naturally lead to Eckersley winning in 1992 specifically.

    Long, boring story short Rico and the Monster were very open about their opinion that it was ridiculous that Eck won the MVP having pitched 80 innings that year, and that relievers and pitchers since the 1970s are basically sissies that shouldn't be compared to guys from "their days", and how relievers certainly didn't deserve MVP awards. Sure enough, Eck actually calls the station and they three of them argue to on the air the point where Eck essentially threatened Radatz physically (hm, sports discussion turns in to faceless threatening) and Rico inviting Eck to come down to the station and settle it if he was such a tough guy etc etc. There's no doubt it was definitely not staged, and makes for great entertainment to hear it replayed.

    Anyways, it really is apples and oranges comparing the baseball eras with the way relievers are used today. Every list of great relievers is composed of 99% post-1980 pitchers. That's not because there aren't any older guys as good and talented as the "closers" of today. Just a different game.

    As for the modern guys, I think Rivera has the most dominant numbers regular and post season. Followed closely by Fingers and Gossage.
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  • AxtellAxtell Posts: 10,037 ✭✭


    << <i>yeah, Ax, unfortuantley for you some of the best ever DID and STILL DO wear pinstripes (Rivera) >>



    You yankee fanatics problem is you are unable to see greatness outside yankee stadium...you all are so blinded by your fanaticism that you are unable to acknowledge some of the best players never wore pinstripes.

  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 23,101 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Perhaps we need to change the question and just limit the top three per decade. I just don't think one can compare Hoyt Wilhelm to a modern relief star...

    As for a season, I believe Roy Face a relief pitcher for Pittsburgh in the 1959 season when he finished 18-1 and pitched a total of 93 innings...

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • SkinpinchSkinpinch Posts: 1,531
    dgs, I never heard about that argument between the players, interesting. I always find it fun when the old timers stick it to a prima donna though.

    Saves are one of my pet peeve stats by the way. You aren't 'saving' anything by pitching one inning with a three run lead. If you want to give it a dramatic name as a 'save', then it should be saving a one run game. The save rule determines when relievers are brought into a game, and that is purely stupid. Also, quite often 'saving' the game often occurs in the seventh or eigth inning, and during the regular season the best reliever(the closer) isn't even brought in for that.

  • AxtellAxtell Posts: 10,037 ✭✭


    << <i>
    Saves are one of my pet peeve stats by the way. You aren't 'saving' anything by pitching one inning with a three run lead. >>



    heh is there *any* stat that isn't a pet peeve of yours?

    According to you:

    -wins are overrated
    -batting average is overrated

    -now saves are overrated.

  • frolicofrolico Posts: 156


    << <i>Does anyone even come close to Rivera's post season stats? >>





    You can't compare Rivera's post season stats to releif pitchers that pitched before the wild card era.
  • softparadesoftparade Posts: 9,276 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>yeah, Ax, unfortuantley for you some of the best ever DID and STILL DO wear pinstripes (Rivera) >>



    You yankee fanatics problem is you are unable to see greatness outside yankee stadium...you all are so blinded by your fanaticism that you are unable to acknowledge some of the best players never wore pinstripes. >>



    Complete bull$hit. You are so busy Axtell telling Yankee fans that they don't respect this and they don't respect that, and bla bla bla bla friggen bla. I for one have a grasp of baseball and its past AND its great ballplayers that have graced the field. YOU have a anti Yankee BLINDER on that refuses to acknowledge the great attributes of anyone in pinstripes. To you any player in pinstripes will never gain your respect because of your hatred to the organization in general. This more than anything else, renders your opinions as BULL$IT. You will always twist and turn the past into a disfavorable outlook on ANYONE that has played with the New York Yankees. It is no suprise that the misdirected crusade that you find yourself on is lost in this totaly inconsequential forum.

    So how about the sad sack franchise you root for? The Seattle Mariners? All that money ownership has and yet it does not matter to them win or lose. Good for you guys! image

    ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240

  • AxtellAxtell Posts: 10,037 ✭✭


    << <i>
    Complete bull$hit. You are so busy Axtell telling Yankee fans that they don't respect this and they don't respect that, and bla bla bla bla friggen bla. I for one have a grasp of baseball and its past AND its great ballplayers that have graced the field. YOU have a anti Yankee BLINDER on that refuses to acknowledge the great attributes of anyone in pinstripes. To you any player in pinstripes will never gain your respect because of your hatred to the organization in general. This more than anything else, renders your opinions as BULL$IT. You will always twist and turn the past into a disfavorable outlook on ANYONE that has played with the New York Yankees. It is no suprise that the misdirected crusade that you find yourself on is lost in this totaly inconsequential forum. >>



    Completely untrue...if you'd pull your head out you'd see I've been saying all year that Arod is the best player in baseball, and hands down deserves to win the MVP.



    << <i>
    So how about the sad sack franchise you root for? The Seattle Mariners? All that money ownership has and yet it does not matter to them win or lose. Good for you guys! image >>



    Doesn't matter win or lose? Yes, the past few years have been down years, but for the better part of a decade, the mariners were among the most competitive in all of baseball. No, they haven't won a world series. Yes, 2001 was a letdown. But for you to sit there and judge another team is ludicrous.

    But then what would I expect? If it doesn't happen in pinstripes, YOU DON'T PAY ATTENTION. I think you'd remember 1995 especially, after the M's came back down 0-2 against 'your' yankees and won 3 straight...the first of many choke jobs by the yankees. Or haven't you been a fan that long? Did your fandom start in 1996 and a world series win?

    Look, it's apparent that you and some other yankee 'fans' here only see what happens in front of you...that paying attention to other teams outside your little tiny box of fandom is impossible. It speaks VOLUMES about you only liking the yankees because of their world series titles, and not because you're a fan of the game. It shows clearly how arrogant and short-sighted you are with your incessant posts like the one above.

  • softparadesoftparade Posts: 9,276 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>
    Complete bull$hit. You are so busy Axtell telling Yankee fans that they don't respect this and they don't respect that, and bla bla bla bla friggen bla. I for one have a grasp of baseball and its past AND its great ballplayers that have graced the field. YOU have a anti Yankee BLINDER on that refuses to acknowledge the great attributes of anyone in pinstripes. To you any player in pinstripes will never gain your respect because of your hatred to the organization in general. This more than anything else, renders your opinions as BULL$IT. You will always twist and turn the past into a disfavorable outlook on ANYONE that has played with the New York Yankees. It is no suprise that the misdirected crusade that you find yourself on is lost in this totaly inconsequential forum. >>



    Completely untrue...if you'd pull your head out you'd see I've been saying all year that Arod is the best player in baseball, and hands down deserves to win the MVP.



    << <i>
    So how about the sad sack franchise you root for? The Seattle Mariners? All that money ownership has and yet it does not matter to them win or lose. Good for you guys! image >>



    Doesn't matter win or lose? Yes, the past few years have been down years, but for the better part of a decade, the mariners were among the most competitive in all of baseball. No, they haven't won a world series. Yes, 2001 was a letdown. But for you to sit there and judge another team is ludicrous.

    But then what would I expect? If it doesn't happen in pinstripes, YOU DON'T PAY ATTENTION. I think you'd remember 1995 especially, after the M's came back down 0-2 against 'your' yankees and won 3 straight...the first of many choke jobs by the yankees. Or haven't you been a fan that long? Did your fandom start in 1996 and a world series win?

    Look, it's apparent that you and some other yankee 'fans' here only see what happens in front of you...that paying attention to other teams outside your little tiny box of fandom is impossible. It speaks VOLUMES about you only liking the yankees because of their world series titles, and not because you're a fan of the game. It shows clearly how arrogant and short-sighted you are with your incessant posts like the one above. >>



    Man, what a crock. Ok axtell, 1995 is worth mentioning when you are a Seattle Mariner fan? But the Yankee fan gets beat down because they have not won in a HALF decade? Like it was so long ago? image Spare me the speech about who is or is not a fan of the game. It means NOTHING coming from yourself .....

    You go on and keep bashing the Yankees for wanting to win and doing everything they can to do just that. Meanwhile, the team you trumpet for a milli-second of success 10 god dam years ago floats along with deep pockets and no will or care to win. Good for you Ax, image you are a fan of a team that gives only half a $hit! If that!

    ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240

  • thegemmintmanthegemmintman Posts: 3,101 ✭✭


    << <i>I think you'd remember 1995 especially, after the M's came back down 0-2 against 'your' yankees and won 3 straight. >>





    Yes it was very painful watching Ken Griffey cross home plate in game 5, but guess what? We won 4 out of the next 5 World Series so who really gives a chit. Keep enjoying your Division win from 10 years ago image
  • softparadesoftparade Posts: 9,276 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I think you'd remember 1995 especially, after the M's came back down 0-2 against 'your' yankees and won 3 straight. >>





    Yes it was very painful watching Ken Griffey cross home plate in game 5, but guess what? We won 4 out of the next 5 World Series so who really gives a chit. Keep enjoying your Division win from 10 years ago image >>



    Unreal is it not? image

    image

    ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240

  • AxtellAxtell Posts: 10,037 ✭✭
    I think it shows that YOU yankee fans love the world series wins, and not the team or the game.

    It's clear in how many times YOU yankee fans attempt to bash other fans...when it's apparent you are only a fan of your team because of past success.

    It must suck to have no real emotional attachment to your team...I guess when all you do is hire a bunch of mercenaries, that's the type of fan base you are going to develop.
  • thegemmintmanthegemmintman Posts: 3,101 ✭✭


    << <i>I think it shows that YOU yankee fans love the world series wins, and not the team or the game. >>




    Personally I love all three image.





    << <i>It's clear in how many times YOU yankee fans attempt to bash other fans. >>




    Only the whiny ones who complain every minute about the Yankees. The rest I leave alone image.






    << <i>It must suck to have no real emotional attachment to your team >>




    I love my Yankees. How dare you image.


  • MPeterMPeter Posts: 568
    Yankees blow!
  • SkinpinchSkinpinch Posts: 1,531
    I'm not a Yankee fan in the least, but I love baseball.

    Having a great closer is NOT overrated.
    Measuring closers on Total saves is faulty, for a few reasons, which most fans know already. That is the crux of comparing new closers to old. And also new closers to each other in some cases.

    Ax, I just wanted to clarify that before I was accused of saying that closers don't matter or something. It is the stat that has faults, yes, just like the others that are championed, in spite of GLARING measurement weaknesses. Keep your list, because there is more you will have to add to it in the future image


    Again, I see the Yankee fans getting bashed, just because they are campaigning for their guy Rivera to be the best RP, at least in the modern era. Ranking Rivera there is most likely correct, and anti-bias Yankee should not change that.

    As for Yankee fans in general, they aren't some Johnny come lately, and they are knowledgeable fans. Are they spoiled by all the winning? If they were, who could blame them. But even with all the winning the passion still remains, unlike places like Atlanta where they have trouble selling out a playoff game.

    Anyway, as an unbiased observer, Yankee fans love their game, even other greats on other teams, they are knowledgeable, they have passion about baseball, and they like their players which just happen to be among the greats of all time.

    Isn't softparade the poster who always cracks open the 78's? He came across as a guy who liked baseball. I didn't even realize he was a Yankee fan until I heard the arguing back and forth. If he isn't the guy who cracked the 78's, then maybe he will in the future imageimage and the disregard this last paragraph.
  • softparadesoftparade Posts: 9,276 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I think it shows that YOU yankee fans love the world series wins, and not the team or the game.

    It's clear in how many times YOU yankee fans attempt to bash other fans...when it's apparent you are only a fan of your team because of past success.

    >>



    Good job Ax! Another post filled with gum drops and lollipops inside your spacious head! You are the complete clown that bashes the Yankees and its fans constantly. All I do is respond to your absurdity. Not once have I EVER bashed a fan on these boards that was not a reply to an absurd and untrue comment from you tortured people.

    I have been a Yankee fan since the early 1970's when I could first walk I was born into the Yankees! Your stupid pot shots that claim I may be a fan ONLY because they win is just a desperate retort by you that is getting old. You want to talk about not being a fan of a team? image I have seen you post about the Seattle Mariners about as many times as you come off as bright ...... which of course is NEVER. No doubt if that team ever wins you BETTER NOT JUMP ON THE BANDWAGON

    SKINPINCH , I never mentioned I was Yankee fan on these boards until I stumbled across this Sports Talk forum and was shocked at what a cesspool it is filled with complete anti NY propaganda. Girls like Axtell have a hatred for the Yankees that supercedes how she feels about her own team. The Seattle Mariners. When have you ever noticed a Seattle Mariner thread started by this "FAN" ...... Hats off to 1978 Topps baseball !!!! image

    ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240

  • AxtellAxtell Posts: 10,037 ✭✭


    << <i>
    I have been a Yankee fan since the early 1970's when I could first walk I was born into the Yankees!
    >>


    Hmm sounds just like spammy, praying no one will see you for what you are - a bandwagon rider! "But I've been a fan for XX number of years!" is the surest sign of a bandwagoner. A real fan is comfortable in knowing they are - they don't need to justify it. Keep telling yourself you've been a fan, maybe you'll start believing it yourself.



    << <i>
    Your stupid pot shots that claim I may be a fan ONLY because they win is just a desperate retort by you that is getting old. You want to talk about not being a fan of a team? image I have seen you post about the Seattle Mariners about as many times as you come off as bright ...... which of course is NEVER. No doubt if that team ever wins you BETTER NOT JUMP ON THE BANDWAGON
    >>


    I've never posted about the mariners? I guess it's that selective amnesia that you yankee fans seem to possess that makes you forget everything that doesn't involve yankees baseball, huh? I can count several Felix threads I started, letting everyone know when he's starting (as he's the next great pitcher), and petitioning for Richie Sexson for CPOY. But then to you, a 'real' fan is one that jumps up and down and prays someone will see all the posts he makes, and *that* makes you a real fan? Moron.




    << <i>SKINPINCH , I never mentioned I was Yankee fan on these boards until I stumbled across this Sports Talk forum and was shocked at what a cesspool it is >>


    Then WHY ARE YOU STILL HERE? If it's so bad, and you hate it so much (otherwise, why call it a cesspool?) why do you hang around? Unless you like being a drama queen, like playing the 'woe is the yankees!' role you try to do so well? You're a glutton for attention, as your incessant ramblings and your man crush on me is quite apparent. I mean was a thread detailing my posting history for the past few months not enough to prove to everyone here that you've got that crush going on? Come on now.


    Go away little boy....when you start making sense, come back (but we all know that's NEVER going to happen!)
  • softparadesoftparade Posts: 9,276 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oooooo, I'm a "moron" again image

    ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240

  • AxtellAxtell Posts: 10,037 ✭✭


    << <i>Oooooo, I'm a "moron" again image >>



    And you still haven't answered why you hang around in a 'cesspool'?
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    we hang around in this cesspool AXHOLe cuz many of us get amusement from the supposed sports knowledge that you claim to have, and how you feebly attempt to belittle people.

    Your like a freak in a sideshow. simply put we get some amusement watching you act like a buffoooooon.



    Stown? this is a callout


    the other post was not.


    SD
    Good for you.
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