10% Over Greysheet Ask

hedgehog847

As a retail consumer, is it out of line to pay 10% over sheet?

~Jim

mirabela

Kinda depends for what, doesn't it?

I won't pay that for a generic Morgan, or for anything else that grows on trees & can be easily had in the neighborhood of bid.

There are plenty of things I might pay that for. There are a few things for which I might pay a heck of a lot more than that. What are you considering?

MrEureka

Please rephrase the question.

BAJJERFAN

If you are a retail customer why would you expect to get things at dealer prices?

hedgehog847

Sorry about the ambiguity of my question. I had a lengthy story attached to it, but I decided to spare the forum my longwindedness.

I was referring to a coin shop. When you walk in, can you expect everything to have a mark-up? For instance, at least 10% over sheet, and higher for quality. I know the shop owner has to keep his lights on and feed his family, but can you bargain with them on their prices?


What are you considering?
Nothing in particular...just speaking more in the generic sense of retail purchasing.

roadrunner

10% over CDN ask would normally be too high imo. Though in many
cases it is fair. This works out to be about 20% over dealer cost
for a wide range of coins....but not all or even close to all.
10% over CDN bid would be reasonable retail though most retailers
like to shoot for 15-30% to cover expenses.

You as a buyer should strive to pay no more than 10-13% over the dealer's cost or repurchase price. A 15% load is too much imo.
Paying 20-25% is nuts. Anything higher is lunacy unless you know more about the coin's value than the dealer. And in cases like that, 100%+ over "wholesale" could be a rip. Getting great coins may in fact cost 15-20% over wholesale levels and be solid deals. Very few collectors get offered or run across great coins, regardless of series or price range. That's why they are great coins. They are scarce.

Personally, I would target for 5-10% and that can be done with some research and knowledge. The lower the better. Generics or low end dogs don't really apply to this discussion as no one really wants them as a rule...unless considerably discounted.

roadrunner

BAJJERFAN

Is it even worth it to a dealer to sell a $30 coin at 10% over cost?

mirabela

<< <i>I was referring to a coin shop. When you walk in, can you expect everything to have a mark-up? For instance, at least 10% over sheet, and higher for quality. I know the shop owner has to keep his lights on and feed his family, but can you bargain with them on their prices? >>



Bear in mind that I'm just an old dumb bunny collector. I'll try to answer this very generic question very generically, based on what I've seen & heard. Here goes:

Well, everything must be marked up some, or the guy won't stay in business. How much is fair depends on a lot of factors, not least being how long that thing might sit before somebody like you or me buys it.

Let's assume he buys the nice stuff somewhere near bid and the common stuff at 20-40% back depending what it is. I think it is reasonable for him to run asking prices that go something like this -- common stuff in the neighborhood of ask, nice stuff a reasonable percentage above, and outstanding things, hotly demanded key dates, tough type coins, outstanding original examples of things that are tough to find and in demand in the first place, etc. at or around retail trends.

How much he bargains is going to depend a lot on how low he was able to buy it, and what his prospects are for a sale sometime soon at a price better than what you offer, I'd expect.

I never expect a guy to move much -- maybe 8 or 10% tops. I only try when 8 or 10% will truly make the difference for me.

Edit -- Let me add -- there's a matter of scale here. Per roadrunner's comments, the margins I'm talking about here are probably excessive when you start to talk about even moderately expensive coins. But with neighborhood coin shop bread & butter stuff, it seems about fair to me. Like you say, it has to be worth his trouble to handle a $30 coin.

morgannut2

I prefer to ignor percentages, and pay $50-$100 over bid for less rare stuff. On a super coin that's super rare, I've seen dealers often bid up to 2 and 1/2 TIMES ask!!! If you can get it elsewhere I'd never go more than 10%, and really it's better to just buy at ask. But this all assumes you know a lovely original high-end for the grade coin, from a dipped out, average piece of common junk that is at every auction and coinshop.

To see what I mean, look some coins that sold way over Trends (Coin World) retail at say ANR coins' auction records in your series.

morgannut2

Hey Bajjer--Dealers don't want to lug common stuff worth $30 to shows, plus they can make just so much. Really these are the ones you can buy way under the $30 ask-- happens all the time

DaveG

I think that generally, at a brick and mortar shop, I'd expect prices to be about Trends (now called Coin Values), or about full retail.

I'd expect to see prices closer to 10% over Bid at a coin show, where dealers have lower overhead. However, from what I've seen at local shows, the dealers who have shops and also do shows tend to charge closer to Trends prices at shows.

billboat

I will buy at 10 to 20% over if I like the coin and can't find it elsewhere--my most recent was a 1903-O Barber half for EF money--$225--over sheet--NGC graded it at MS63--I was happy. Just pay attention and you can do well.

CarlWohlforth

The spread between Dealers Bid and Dealers Ask for nice coins (Greysheet) is often %10. Coins dealers who run a shop would have to attempt to make %20-%30 or they will not feed their family. Clothes retailers try to get a very much larger percentage than that. I would imagine most dealers would like to hear you are interested in one of their coins at a specific price. If your interest is not to very far away from their price you should mention it.

Generic coins have a narrow spread. Most dealers at coins shows say their coins are not generic so most nice coins are more than %10 over ask. If you are looking for PCGS MS 64 common date Morgans you will never get cheaper coins than what you can find on eBay (w/ the low overhead). If you are looking for coins with that special eye appeal and high end for the grade you will have to pay up.

The price guides are just plain out of touch in some cases...

BAJJERFAN

Hey Bajjer--Dealers don't want to lug common stuff worth $30 to shows, plus they can make just so much. Really these are the ones you can buy way under the $30 ask-- happens all the time


My point was you need a higher markup on these whether it be store or show as most of the time it aint hardly worth a sale that generates a lousy $3 markup IMO. Tho it beats sittin around twiddlin yer thumbs I spose.

morgannut2

I'm half kidding Bajjer. You're correct. Just saying, after building relationships with several dealers, I've put together I'd guess 75 AU Morgans out of 97. All at around bid--- for an album, because the dealers really don't want to waste time on the coins. They just take up time and space, so if I agree to buy 10 or 15 at once, they drag them to a show and dump them. I suspect the markup on all the AU 79CC's, 96-S's 03'S, etc. will be a tad higher than 10% though as we know!!!

roadrunner

I'd be happy with a lousy $3 markup on the last bunch of first gen PCGS 64 common morgans I bought. 10% is better than zero.
I'd actually be lucky to break even now since they have gone down a few bucks.

Doesn't matter to me whether it's a $50 coin or a $1000 coin.

roadrunner

BAJJERFAN

I suspect the markup on all the AU 79CC's, 96-S's 03'S, etc. will be a tad higher than 10% though as we know!!!

If you can even find em. Those are still a tough find in today's market.

rays

I've paid triple bid and more for true rarities. The graysheet is wholly inaccurate for early copper.

Elcontador

As a collector, you won't find a really nice for the grade, popular 19th century type coin for less than 10% above greysheet ask.

michael

well i need to see the coin and then i will let you know

but for some "michael" type coins i have seen them go anywhere from ask to 10 times sheet anf the buyers still got great value

only buy GREAT COINS

coppercoins

<< <i>As a retail consumer, is it out of line to pay 10% over sheet?

~Jim >>



Umm, well...that really depends on what you're talking about.

Answer this....

How much is my collection worth?

You just asked the same sort of question. Impossible to answer without the subject.

Steve27

"I was referring to a coin shop. When you walk in, can you expect everything to have a mark-up? For instance, at least 10% over sheet, and higher for quality. I know the shop owner has to keep his lights on and feed his family, but can you bargain with them on their prices?"


1) I find that my local guy has everything priced higher than that (which is why I don't buy there).
2) If you establish a relationship then I'm sure you can bargain with him.
3) Don't worry about his ability to feed his family, worry about the little old lady he screwed to get the piece you want to buy from him.

PerryHall

<< <i>"I was referring to a coin shop. When you walk in, can you expect everything to have a mark-up? For instance, at least 10% over sheet, and higher for quality. I know the shop owner has to keep his lights on and feed his family, but can you bargain with them on their prices?"

3) Don't worry about his ability to feed his family, worry about the little old lady he screwed to get the piece you want to buy from him. >>



Amen!!!