<< <i>The bills appear to be in great shape considering they've been in the ground for 70 years. Amazing.
Makes you wonder what's out there still waiting to be found. >>
Considering it was common at the time to hide money under floors, behind walls, and outside I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often. Guess they never figured on dying.
Joe
The Philadelphia Mint: making coins since 1792. We make money by making money. Now in our 225th year thanks to no competition.
<< <i>Considering it was common at the time to hide money under floors, behind walls, and outside I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often. Guess they never figured on dying. >>
I live in a house that was originally built in 1812. I often wonder if there's something hiding in the back yard or in the cellar (besides the boogy man).
<< <i>Considering it was common at the time to hide money under floors, behind walls, and outside I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often. Guess they never figured on dying. >>
I live in a house that was originally built in 1812. I often wonder if there's something hiding in the back yard or in the cellar (besides the boogy man). >>
Most of the material isn't in the greatest shape, believe it or not. Consensus seems to be that a good deal of it is common, and in lower grades. I don't know how much impact it will have on the market, as I'd imagine it'll be absorbed pretty easily.
Wow! your hear about finds but they are hard to believe sometimes, like this one. I was watching on the news a noticed the guys had some coin boxes in the background, $100 nickel boxes. May be they made a quick trade with the coin shop or they are collectors, 2005 bisons probably. I would excavate that whole property. Most of the denominations were $1's and $2's someone was saving money a can at a time, can fills up, bury it in the yard. Most likely spread out than in just on spot.
Wasn't there a thread on the MD forum where someone was renovating a home (Long Island?) hit the wall with a sledge hammer and gold coins fell out? One of our members was contacted for advice.
Joe
The Philadelphia Mint: making coins since 1792. We make money by making money. Now in our 225th year thanks to no competition.
<< <i> Wasn't there a thread on the MD forum where someone was renovating a home (Long Island?) hit the wall with a sledge hammer and gold coins fell out? One of our members was contacted for advice >>
I looked for the thread, but apparently it's been pulled. See HERE and ALSO HERE. I remember what a great story it was.
Speaking of "hiding money" in walls, under floors, etc...
Here is something of interest... I am doing some asbestos inspections at work for a state contract, which after the inspections and removal of any asbestos, the buildings will be torn down to make way for a new highway. As part of my sampling, I am using a sledge hammer to bust holes in the walls and floors of these houses. Most of the houses are older farm type housing. So my through is that just maybe, I could get lucky, and find a cache of coins hidden in the walls, or under the floors. Won't that be great?!? Well, at least I can dream. There is a total of 43 houses I have to inspect. Most homes were built in the early 1900's to 1940's.
I think I would have been a tad more discreet about this than these guys were. The People's Republic of Taxachusetts will most certainly be after them to collect their pound of flesh. Not to mention all the people that have owned that house coming out of the woodwork trying to lay claim to the find.
Yes, given the way Taxachusetts works, the government might sieze this find as "public property" the same way they do unclaimed bank accounts and safe deposit boxes. Then the crooks in the legislature would divide it up among themselves.
Massachusetts is a prime example of what happens when you allow the political system to be dominated by one poltical party. That goes for Republicans and in the Mass. case Democrats.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
The dealer said that the majority of the value was in "obsolete national bank notes"....I would assume he means national bank notes because obsoltes are generally worth crap.
Poor choice of wording from the numismatically challenged journalist.
It's interesting to see the variety of notes circulating in those days. It looks like there were four or five designs for each denomination in circulation. Beautiful designs too.
Hey, I was born in Methuen, Ma. Just found this article in the local paper.
Questions arise over buried treasure By Stephanie Akin Staff Writer
METHUEN -- When a group of local men said they found a wooden crate full of antique bank notes and bills buried in a Methuen yard, the story sounded straight out of a Hardy Boys novel.
Now questions are surfacing about some details of the story because of discrepancies in their accounts of how they found the cache of paper money that they say may be worth as much as $100,000.
As the men appeared yesterday on "Good Morning America," CNN and other national television shows to tell of their find, their story was also attracting the attention of Methuen police and the Essex County district attorney's office.
Authorities have found that one of the men has a criminal record that includes a 1999 federal conviction for counterfeiting.
"We're upholding our responsibility to verify the accuracy of the reports of the found money," Methuen police Chief Joseph E. Solomon said yesterday. "By law, the find should have been reported to us within two days, and it was not."
The three men who say they found the money -- Barry Billcliff, 27, of Manchester, N.H., Matt Ingham, 26, of Newton, N.H., and Tim Crebase, 22, of Methuen -- have told their story over and over to various media outlets since last Friday, each time a little differently.
One consistent thread is that they dug up 1,800 bank notes and bills dated between 1899 and 1928, with a face value of about $7,000 but worth much more to collectors.
The stories differed over how deep the remarkably well-preserved money was buried -- anywhere from 9 inches to 2 feet.
They also differed on the details of the condition of the wooden box the money was found in -- at first they said it was so rotted it disintegrated on contact and, in another report, that they tore off the top in one piece.
The men also gave conflicting accounts of their reasons for digging in the back yard of the house where Crebase lives. They told one reporter they were digging a hole to plant a tree. In other reports, they were quoted as saying they wanted to remove a small tree or dig up the roots of a shrub that was damaging the foundation of the house.
The story first appeared in The Eagle-Tribune on Saturday. Billcliff called the newspaper on Friday to report the amazing find and met with a reporter that night at the home where he said the money had been dug up the previous week.
He said the home was built by a family descended from "Spanish conquistadors." Three days later, he told another Eagle-Tribune reporter the home was built by a Polish general who fled his native land, disgraced by a defeat in a battle against Napoleon.
Billcliff, reached on his cellular phone last night while he waited in a New York airport to return from his day of national TV appearances, said the discrepancies can be explained. He said the details vary because the men were excited, but he said the main elements of the story were always the same.
"It's like watching a car accident," he said. "Sometimes someone will say something and someone else will say something slightly different, but mostly it's the same."
He also noted that most other media outlets misspelled his name as "Villcliff."
Billcliff, who runs a roofing company, said the men left the remains of the box where they found it and covered it with dirt.
He refused to allow an Eagle-Tribune reporter onto the property last night to see the area where the box was buried.
He said the owner of the house where the money was found, Kevin Kozak, was afraid to attract too much attention to the property for fear it would attract other treasure seekers.
The men who found the money have asked that the address not be used. But Kozak's address, 49 Sorrento Ave., in the Pleasant Valley section of Methuen, is listed in the phone book. The story has also attracted the attention of neighbors of Kozak, who say they did not see the men working in the yard. From a neighbor's yard, the lawn appeared to be covered in dense grass, littered with beer cans and other trash. There were no signs of recent digging.
Legally, money found buried on a property belongs to the property owner, but Kozak has said he wants the men who found it to use it to promote a rock band they are involved with. The men said Kozak agreed to let them keep the money because they were doing landscape work for free. Attempts to contact Kozak last night were unsuccessful.
Last night, Billcliff called his 1999 conviction for counterfeiting "just stupid stuff" he did when he was young.
Police say Billcliff was arraigned for counterfeiting in Haverhill District Court on July 22, 1999, but the state charges were later dropped when federal authorities took jurisdiction in the case.
Billcliff was then arraigned in U.S. District Court in Boston on Nov, 2. 1999. He was charged after investigators found copying and printing machines and counterfeit bills in his apartment at 16 Vine St. in Haverhill.
Samantha Martin, spokeswoman for the U. S. Attorney's Office in Boston, said this morning Billcliff was sentenced Jan. 27, 2000, to two years of probation on the counterfeiting charge.
An expert who examined the paper bills did not question that they are genuine.
The dates on the bills indicate they may have been underground as long as 75 years.
John Pack, associate director of auction consignments at American Numismatic Rarities in Wolfeboro, N.H., one of the primary auction houses for rare coins and currency in the United States, said it is very rare to find paper money buried in the ground because it disintegrates so quickly.
Joe Giarusso of the Methuen Conservation Commission said Sorrento Avenue is not in the Merrimack River's 100-year flood plain but the area could have been subjected to extreme floods, such as the one in March 1936
Walter Newman of the New England Document Conservation Center in North Andover said the cookie tins the men said contained the cash were manufactured to be air tight to prevent cookies from becoming stale. He said if the tins functioned as intended, they should have kept out water that would have damaged the paper money.
The tin shown to an Eagle-Tribune reporter was rusted but intact.
"It is possible (the bills) stayed dry, depending on the tightness of the seal," Newman said. "The key is if the tin was adequate to keep moisture out."
Paper engineering expert John W. Walkinshaw, professor of chemical engineering at the University of Massachusetts Lowell, said that if the tins were sealed to keep moisture out, it is very possible the bills could have been preserved.
"There is no reason if currency remained dry that it could not survive long periods of time," he said.
Latest story on the notes that these notes were stolen by some contractors roofing a house. Apparently they stumbled across the hoard in the attic. Made up story to hide theft.
Jim Hodgson
Collector of US Small Size currency, Atlanta FRNs, and Georgia nationals since 1977. Researcher of small size US type - seeking serial number data for all FRN star notes, Series 1928 to 1934-D. Life member SPMC.
Real shame...I heard it on the news....I wonder if the owner of the house where the roofing was being done even knew about the money??? It could have been hidden up their for decades and noone knew about them.....
The owners of the house are not yet aware of the money found in the rafters. What a suprise that would be. The morons that stole the money have some really big yappers, brought the suspicion on themselves. Sad to say that if they had been a wee bit discrete they could have pulled it off. "Loose lips sink ships"
<< <i>I wouldn't have said a word. Just split the loot with my buddy and tell him to keep his mouth shut.
Russ, NCNE >>
I would have paid Madmarty with some of the new found red seals to shoot my buddy and then told Russ where MadMarty was so he could say to him, "You suck" and then shoot him and take his red seals.
Comments
Makes you wonder what's out there still waiting to be found.
<< <i>The bills appear to be in great shape considering they've been in the ground for 70 years. Amazing.
Makes you wonder what's out there still waiting to be found. >>
Considering it was common at the time to hide money under floors, behind walls, and outside I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often. Guess they never figured on dying.
Joe
<< <i>Considering it was common at the time to hide money under floors, behind walls, and outside I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often. Guess they never figured on dying. >>
I live in a house that was originally built in 1812. I often wonder if there's something hiding in the back yard or in the cellar (besides the boogy man).
<< <i>I saw it on the news. That's what dreams are made of!! I wish my metal detector could tune in to paper money! >>
The article that was posted here yesterday said there were coins in the cans also!
<< <i>
<< <i>Considering it was common at the time to hide money under floors, behind walls, and outside I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often. Guess they never figured on dying. >>
I live in a house that was originally built in 1812. I often wonder if there's something hiding in the back yard or in the cellar (besides the boogy man). >>
You should invest in a metal detector.
Link to story?
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
No coins were found at all?
/Kore
Joe
<< <i> Wasn't there a thread on the MD forum where someone was renovating a home (Long Island?) hit the wall with a sledge hammer and gold coins fell out? One of our members was contacted for advice >>
I looked for the thread, but apparently it's been pulled. See HERE and ALSO HERE. I remember what a great story it was.
/Boston Globe
"I'm the one who found it," Crebase said. "Without my decision, nothing's going to happen.">>
<< <i>"I'd rather burn the money than cause problems between me and my friends," Crebase said. >>
Contradictory?
<< <i>Simple luck helped Tim Crebase and two friends find a stash of cash buried in his yard. >>
<< <i>He said he plans to give some to Billcliff and the home's owner, Kevin Kozak >>
<< <i>I wonder what the impact will be on the currency market? >>
considering it was on the today show, it might spark some interest in paper
Here is something of interest... I am doing some asbestos inspections at work for a state contract, which after the inspections and removal of any asbestos, the buildings will be torn down to make way for a new highway. As part of my sampling, I am using a sledge hammer to bust holes in the walls and floors of these houses. Most of the houses are older farm type housing. So my through is that just maybe, I could get lucky, and find a cache of coins hidden in the walls, or under the floors. Won't that be great?!? Well, at least I can dream. There is a total of 43 houses I have to inspect. Most homes were built in the early 1900's to 1940's.
Tyler
Looking for PCGS AU58 Washington's, 32-63.
Cheers,
Bob
<< <i>The People's Republic of Taxachusetts will most certainly be after them to collect their pound of flesh. >>
Sad, but true.
Massachusetts is a prime example of what happens when you allow the political system to be dominated by one poltical party. That goes for Republicans and in the Mass. case Democrats.
"Lookie what we found !! " "Lots 'o pictures" !!
Geeez!!!
Next thing we're gonna hear is how pi$$ed they are because Uncle Sam and the tax man of their state raked them over the coals for their windfall.
<< <i>I think I would have been a tad more discreet about this than these guys were. >>
I wouldn't have said a word. Just split the loot with my buddy and tell him to keep his mouth shut.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>I wouldn't have said a word. Just split the loot with my buddy and tell him to keep his mouth shut.
Russ, NCNE >>
I would of shot my buddy and kept all the loot for myself. Of course, I would then need to bury the money in my backyard.
Poor choice of wording from the numismatically challenged journalist.
siliconvalleycoins.com
I'll bet his whole yard looks like a crater by next week.
I would also bet that Unkie Sam is going to be wantin' his share.
edited to remove repeat of pic.
collections: Maryland related coins & exonumia, 7070 Type set, and Video Arcade Tokens.
The Low Budget Y2K Registry Set
<< <i>I would of shot my buddy and kept all the loot for myself. Of course, I would then need to bury the money in my backyard. >>
At least you'd already have a hole to put your buddy in (from where the money was found).
days. It looks like there were four or five designs for each
denomination in circulation. Beautiful designs too.
Please check out my eBay auctions!
My WLH Short Set Registry Collection
<< <i>If he gets $100,000 out of it,he could've saved $40,000 if he would've kept his mouth shut >>
My point exactly...what a couple of nimrods!
Hey, I was born in Methuen, Ma. Just found this article in the local paper.
Questions arise over buried treasure
By Stephanie Akin
Staff Writer
METHUEN -- When a group of local men said they found a wooden crate full of antique bank notes and bills buried in a Methuen yard, the story sounded straight out of a Hardy Boys novel.
Now questions are surfacing about some details of the story because of discrepancies in their accounts of how they found the cache of paper money that they say may be worth as much as $100,000.
As the men appeared yesterday on "Good Morning America," CNN and other national television shows to tell of their find, their story was also attracting the attention of Methuen police and the Essex County district attorney's office.
Authorities have found that one of the men has a criminal record that includes a 1999 federal conviction for counterfeiting.
"We're upholding our responsibility to verify the accuracy of the reports of the found money," Methuen police Chief Joseph E. Solomon said yesterday. "By law, the find should have been reported to us within two days, and it was not."
The three men who say they found the money -- Barry Billcliff, 27, of Manchester, N.H., Matt Ingham, 26, of Newton, N.H., and Tim Crebase, 22, of Methuen -- have told their story over and over to various media outlets since last Friday, each time a little differently.
One consistent thread is that they dug up 1,800 bank notes and bills dated between 1899 and 1928, with a face value of about $7,000 but worth much more to collectors.
The stories differed over how deep the remarkably well-preserved money was buried -- anywhere from 9 inches to 2 feet.
They also differed on the details of the condition of the wooden box the money was found in -- at first they said it was so rotted it disintegrated on contact and, in another report, that they tore off the top in one piece.
The men also gave conflicting accounts of their reasons for digging in the back yard of the house where Crebase lives. They told one reporter they were digging a hole to plant a tree. In other reports, they were quoted as saying they wanted to remove a small tree or dig up the roots of a shrub that was damaging the foundation of the house.
The story first appeared in The Eagle-Tribune on Saturday. Billcliff called the newspaper on Friday to report the amazing find and met with a reporter that night at the home where he said the money had been dug up the previous week.
He said the home was built by a family descended from "Spanish conquistadors." Three days later, he told another Eagle-Tribune reporter the home was built by a Polish general who fled his native land, disgraced by a defeat in a battle against Napoleon.
Billcliff, reached on his cellular phone last night while he waited in a New York airport to return from his day of national TV appearances, said the discrepancies can be explained. He said the details vary because the men were excited, but he said the main elements of the story were always the same.
"It's like watching a car accident," he said. "Sometimes someone will say something and someone else will say something slightly different, but mostly it's the same."
He also noted that most other media outlets misspelled his name as "Villcliff."
Billcliff, who runs a roofing company, said the men left the remains of the box where they found it and covered it with dirt.
He refused to allow an Eagle-Tribune reporter onto the property last night to see the area where the box was buried.
He said the owner of the house where the money was found, Kevin Kozak, was afraid to attract too much attention to the property for fear it would attract other treasure seekers.
The men who found the money have asked that the address not be used. But Kozak's address, 49 Sorrento Ave., in the Pleasant Valley section of Methuen, is listed in the phone book. The story has also attracted the attention of neighbors of Kozak, who say they did not see the men working in the yard. From a neighbor's yard, the lawn appeared to be covered in dense grass, littered with beer cans and other trash. There were no signs of recent digging.
Legally, money found buried on a property belongs to the property owner, but Kozak has said he wants the men who found it to use it to promote a rock band they are involved with. The men said Kozak agreed to let them keep the money because they were doing landscape work for free. Attempts to contact Kozak last night were unsuccessful.
Last night, Billcliff called his 1999 conviction for counterfeiting "just stupid stuff" he did when he was young.
Police say Billcliff was arraigned for counterfeiting in Haverhill District Court on July 22, 1999, but the state charges were later dropped when federal authorities took jurisdiction in the case.
Billcliff was then arraigned in U.S. District Court in Boston on Nov, 2. 1999. He was charged after investigators found copying and printing machines and counterfeit bills in his apartment at 16 Vine St. in Haverhill.
Samantha Martin, spokeswoman for the U. S. Attorney's Office in Boston, said this morning Billcliff was sentenced Jan. 27, 2000, to two years of probation on the counterfeiting charge.
An expert who examined the paper bills did not question that they are genuine.
The dates on the bills indicate they may have been underground as long as 75 years.
John Pack, associate director of auction consignments at American Numismatic Rarities in Wolfeboro, N.H., one of the primary auction houses for rare coins and currency in the United States, said it is very rare to find paper money buried in the ground because it disintegrates so quickly.
Joe Giarusso of the Methuen Conservation Commission said Sorrento Avenue is not in the Merrimack River's 100-year flood plain but the area could have been subjected to extreme floods, such as the one in March 1936
Walter Newman of the New England Document Conservation Center in North Andover said the cookie tins the men said contained the cash were manufactured to be air tight to prevent cookies from becoming stale. He said if the tins functioned as intended, they should have kept out water that would have damaged the paper money.
The tin shown to an Eagle-Tribune reporter was rusted but intact.
"It is possible (the bills) stayed dry, depending on the tightness of the seal," Newman said. "The key is if the tin was adequate to keep moisture out."
Paper engineering expert John W. Walkinshaw, professor of chemical engineering at the University of Massachusetts Lowell, said that if the tins were sealed to keep moisture out, it is very possible the bills could have been preserved.
"There is no reason if currency remained dry that it could not survive long periods of time," he said.
Collector of US Small Size currency, Atlanta FRNs, and Georgia nationals since 1977. Researcher of small size US type - seeking serial number data for all FRN star notes, Series 1928 to 1934-D. Life member SPMC.
Here a link to a local news article...
Pair Arrested
Cameron Kiefer
<< <i>I wouldn't have said a word. Just split the loot with my buddy and tell him to keep his mouth shut.
Russ, NCNE >>
I would have paid Madmarty with some of the new found red seals to shoot my buddy and then told Russ where MadMarty was so he could say to him, "You suck" and then shoot him and take his red seals.
<< <i>Idiots. But it is a good thing criminals are dumb. They are easy to catch.
Cameron Kiefer >>
Ditto!
<< <i>Idiots. But it is a good thing criminals are dumb. They are easy to catch.
Cameron Kiefer >>
I couldn't agree with you more!! Maybe this will make it to that one show about stupid criminals!! HAHAHA!! They get what they deserve now.
-------------------------------
Bridget
----------
(My beautiful children!!)
However, from a standpoint of plain old common sense, these idiots have none.
I'd just like to pull them aside, box them upside the head and ask, "what the hell were you thinking?"