Please explain how resubmitting would get you a different grade?
Prethen
Posts: 3,452 ✭✭✭
I realize that the question of "Why would resubmitting a coin get you a different grade (or out of a bodybag for that matter)?" seem like a question with an obvious answer. Well, it's not so obvious to me. From what I understand there are typically three graders and a finalizer who look at coins all day long. It's hellish work, but I respect what they do and, for the most part, they probably know what they're doing. BUT, if I send a coin in and it gets bodybagged, isn't it because four (4) different people agreed it should be bodybagged? Okay, so, I resend it in, why would all four or even a majority of those same graders, on a different day, feel differently about the same exact coin? Logically, it almost doesn't make any sense. I can see where a coin comes out MS63 once and then MS64 the second time perhaps due to one grader switching his position on the coin (inadvertently, of course switching a majority opinion) on the second trip. Maybe this goes for bodybagged coins as well.
Someone please enlighten me as how the crackout game is successful from the TPGS point-of-view.
Someone please enlighten me as how the crackout game is successful from the TPGS point-of-view.
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Just do it a few times for yourself. Soon, you will see that it is just an incredible crapshoot.
Jack
Cameron Kiefer
This is frequently encountered in the case of coins which have been lightly cleaned. It often comes down to this - do you assign a lower grade to the coin than you otherwise would, due to the cleaning, or is the cleaning harsh enough to body-bag the coin, instead?
As a real life example pertaining to a coin I evaluated for a forum member recently:
The coin was a $2.50 Indian graded MS63 by another grading company and the owner wanted to cross it over into a PCGS holder. When I viewed it, my thought was that the coin deserved a 61 grade, but that it had been lightly cleaned and there was a possibility PCGS would no-grade it due to the light cleaning. Fortunately, the coin crossed as a 61, but it could have received a no-grade and I would have understood.
Here are a few of the other possible scenarios where it can be a tough call as to whether to grade or body-bag a coin:
1) Is the color AT or NT? This is often impossible to know for certain. Do you body-bag a coin is the color is iffy, or give it a grade (perhaps a point lower to CYA a bit on the color)?
2) In the case of old copper coins that have porosity or environmental damage - is the problem severe enough to body-bag the coin or should it receive a lower/net grade due to the problem?
3) If a coin has been heavily dipped, is the change/damage to its surface bad enough to no-grade it or should the coin be graded?
In all of the above instances, it is a subjective judgment call, much like choosing a numerical grade to assign, based on many factors.
The grading companies must tow a very fine line and it's a balancing act - on one hand, paying submitters want their coins holdered, not body-bagged. On the other hand, buyers want coins that are fine for the grade and deserving of being holdered. It's all but impossible to please both sides/groups at the same time.
That was an excellent and learned commentary. I like the Knife's answer better, though:
<< <i>it is just an incredible crapshoot. >>
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Mark, That was an excellent and learned commentary. I like the Knife's answer better, though:
<< <i>it is just an incredible crapshoot. >>
>>
An incredibly expensive crapshoot in both time and money!
The name is LEE!
Things change
My posts viewed
since 8/1/6
My point is this, and has already been stated. Grading is subjective, and a close call may come out differently on a different day/hour/month.
Those who resubmit coins will try to identify the high end, or plus coins and try to attain the next highest grade. If a coin is truly a borderline 64-65, they are hoping that for some reason, the graders are feeling more generous on the day they grade and will grade that former "64+" to "65-"
Then again, I like the crapshoot theory better.
The best theory is the crapshoot and it holds true just as well for NGC as it does for PCGS.
The problem with this is the amount of money and time it cost for resubmits to get the grade you think your coin deserves.
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etexmike
<< <i>I realize that the question of "Why would resubmitting a coin get you a different grade (or out of a bodybag for that matter)?" seem like a question with an obvious answer. Well, it's not so obvious to me. From what I understand there are typically three graders and a finalizer who look at coins all day long. It's hellish work, but I respect what they do and, for the most part, they probably know what they're doing. BUT, if I send a coin in and it gets bodybagged, isn't it because four (4) different people agreed it should be bodybagged? Okay, so, I resend it in, why would all four or even a majority of those same graders, on a different day, feel differently about the same exact coin? Logically, it almost doesn't make any sense. I can see where a coin comes out MS63 once and then MS64 the second time perhaps due to one grader switching his position on the coin (inadvertently, of course switching a majority opinion) on the second trip. Maybe this goes for bodybagged coins as well.
Someone please enlighten me as how the crackout game is successful from the TPGS point-of-view. >>
Welcome to the wonderful world of third party grading, there is a reason why some people will submit a coin five or ten times to the same service. Its seems more often then not they will eventually get the grade they want or they would not keep doing over and over with different coins.
<< <i>The problem with this is the amount of money and time it cost for resubmits to get the grade you think your coin deserves. >>
The book I mentioned also suggests that this only be done when there is a significant price/value difference between the grade on the holder and the next highest grade, and only if the coin is truly high-end for the slabbed grade. Trying to upgrade a coin from MS-63 to MS-64 would be a waste of money for comman Morgans because of the small differences in value, but in cases where the upswing is several hunderd or several thousand dollars, spending a couple of hundred dollars in submission fees would seem like a small price to pay for such potential profits.
The PCGS graders participating in the PCGS grading contest. I know it will never happen...
Cost at NGC-- $15
Cost at PCGS- $15
Cost at PCGS--$17
Mailing etc------$14 (prorated)
Cost of coin----- $1
Bus fare 1960 $0.25
Total-- Fees ($61) + Coin ($1.25) = $62.25 Sad: If NGC got it right to start--At least it would be still original