OLD vs. NEW PCGS SLABS?

DRSAINT

There has been some discussion in several threads about old PCGS slabs vs. new ones and the significance in purchasing coins from dealers.
Can someone knowledgable on this subject please explain why caution is needed regarding this topic? What is the difference between these old and new slabs and the ramifications regarding purchasing from dealers?

Thank You to all who can offer some insight!

SUPERCARCOINS

.........the implication from many dealers is that the older, origional slabs were more tightly graded and hence should upgrade . this general assumption would be dangerous. Buy the coin - not the holder.

atarian

63 PF65 frankie in a old PCGS so it might have a chance in being graded a step higher?

XpipedreamR

Maybe if you start a third thread on this topic you finally get the answers you're looking for?

Louis

Most of the old holders with upgrade potential have been cracked out. Buy the coin, not the holder.

roadrunner

There are probably tens of thousands of old slabs still sitting untouched since the late 1980's and early 1990's. They continue to show up with regularity. Buy the coin, not the holder....but I always look twice or three times at old holdered (pre-1990) coins.

roadrunner

CardsFan

Another reason some buyers prefer the older holders is the coin has "settled". Things can pop up on a recently slabbed coin, such as finger print discolorization, carbon spots, etc. A coin in a older holder is more stabile.

Hadleydog

Drsaint, the grading companies were fairly 'tight' when they first came on the scene. It was very difficult to get higher than a 65 grade, and borderline coins were kept at the lower grade. This goes for both first generation pcgs and ngc coins. However, there are a lot of folks who have made a tidy living from identifying undergraded coins and resubmitting them for the higher grade. Thus, many of the undergraded coins have already been discovered and a much higher percentage of the oldies that are left are graded correctly. There are still lots of upgrade candidates out there (coins that have not seen the market since they were graded), but the best advice is to buy the coin, not the holder. The one area to be careful with is dmpl's................pcgs is WAY tighter on them now, and lot's of first year dmpl's will only make pl today.
Hope this helps!

Shamika

<< <i> Another reason some buyers prefer the older holders is the coin has "settled". Things can pop up on a recently slabbed coin, such as finger print discolorization, carbon spots, etc. A coin in a older holder is more stabile. >>


I agree 100% with CardsFan. Stability is security!

Hadleydog

Another reason some buyers prefer the older holders is the coin has "settled". Things can pop up on a recently slabbed coin, such as finger print discolorization, carbon spots, etc. A coin in a older holder is more stabile.

Not true if we are talking about the old ngc slabs before they came out with the strip between the paper insert and the coin. These tend to tone in the holder, the sulphur from the paper insert was able to react with the coin.

BillJones

A fair number of PCGS graded coins that are in the Green label holders (but not the old “rattle holders”) are conservatively graded. This is NOT to say that ALL of them are PQ or better still good crack out candidates for an upgrade. Some green label coins are not nice, and some of them are just "dead on" for the stated graded.

In order to pick out these coins, you still need to know how to grade coins and spot the conservatively graded or undergraded pieces. You just can't pick up any green label holder coin you see a buy it on blind faith.

The same can be said for old NGC graded coins. The ones with the gold embossed trademark on the reverse were often conservatively graded too.

roadrunner

The ANACs graded coins with the "gold seal" on the reverse were also done early on and tend to be conservatively graded....plus they get less attention than rattlers. I ran into a group of better date Morgans in these old ANACS holders where nearly every coin was an upgrade.

If I know a group of coins is fresh in old pre-1990 holders, I'd be happy to pay hefty premiums for them sight-unseen. Stacks auctioned off such a group of $20 Saints 2 years ago - 60 pieces in MS63-64. The auction didn't even say they were in old holders and there were no pics. But by the verbage you knew they had been put away for over 12 years. I mail bid on all 60 pieces and got 20 of them, sight-unseen. About 15 upgraded, the others were just nice or PQ. One piece was good for a 2 point upgrade.

Let's not also forget that 20% of the coins back from the services are misgraded. In many cases undergraded. Sometimes the majority of the entire order is undergraded because it hit them at a "tough" time. Older holders are great, but getting first cracks at a dealer's return shipment when there are many undergrades is always nice.

roadrunner

nwcs

I've got about a half dozen old slabs. Half I think would upgrade, 1 I'm not sure of, and 2 I think are accurate. The problem is the temptation to pull the handle on the slot machine. I haven't reached that just yet.

majorbigtime

Coins in old slabs often being a premimum--most likely due to upgrade potential. I've been advised that it's best to leave 'em "as-is" due to built-in premimum value.

morgannut2

The old PCGS slabs are a preference for me because: 1) If the coin is AT and slipped through, I won't end up with a nearly black coin a year later as has happened to me; 2) I like green; 3) many of the coins are high-end "liners" that won't upgrade, the dealers know it, but they're still "PQ" for the grade, 4) Many are actually overgraded stuff that were misgraded due to great "eye appeal"---if you can get them at a grade less in price it's OK.

The Problems: Many AT coins slipped into holders early on before the services wised up. You must Know altered material!

The definition of DMPL and PL has drastically changed at PCGS IMHO. I've cracked out several super

DMPL's only to get a 1 or 2 pt. upgrade, but a PL instead of DMPL, and the DMPL was worth more!!!

On older ANACS Morgans I've seen a large number of thumbed/waxed cheeks that slip buy there for

for some reason. Be careful of Cameos that look too clean to be true--some are real foolers!

michael

buy the coin not the holder

i have seen many undergraded current pcgs/ngc slabs graded ms65 66 that a friend of mine bought and paid a retail price of ms66 67 for the coins respectively for the coins in the undergraded slabs and all where fresh from pcgs/ngc

and he sent all the pcgs coins in for regrade in slabs that where less than two months old and all got upgraded

and many are still liner high end for the grade!!

michael

Elcontador

I'd like to add two things:

1) Re old PCGS holdered coins, many Large & Half Cents graded RB only had 5-15% RD. These coins often show up at auction and if graded today, would be in BN holders.
2) A plus re old PCGS holdered coins re RD copper is that you know the coin hasn't been recently doctored. Some people will doctor a copper coin, and it will look great for a month or two -- just enough time to have it slabbed & sold to an unsuspecting party, before it starts to react with the chemicals.

KurtHorn

Just a word to those considering going for upgrades. Be careful that if you send an old PCGS holder to PCGS they will crack the coin out regardless of whatever minimum grade you put on your submission. They don't tell you this anywhere, so just be informed.