WHAT'S THE MARKET SHARE FOR PCGS?

Deb048gold

I was curious to find out if anyone has a "ballpark" guess at what market share % PCGS has on the graded market vs NGC and others.
Is their market share growing or decreasing?

my3cents

55% and decreasing

kieferscoins

51.892% and staying level.

Cameron Kiefer

Russ

45% and decreasing.

Russ, NCNE

Smittys

i'M NOT SURE BUT IT LOOKS LIKE IT GETTING SMALLER WITH EACH REPLY.

ziggy29

I'm guessing it's decreasing if only because of the turnaround times.

guysmy

Anyone know NGCs market share?

Russ

<< <i>Anyone know NGCs market share? >>



45% and increasing.

Russ, NCNE

nwcs

I don't think there are enough "analysts" out there to give you a real number.

GAT

Go on eBay and see how many slabs are listed for each company. Then figure out the percentages for each. This will give you a rough estimate.

MORGANHUNTER2

CU3000 dropped $45. today, gold down, silver up. market share- what is NGC's trading ID?

kieferscoins

NGC isn't on the stock market.

Cameron Kiefer

Deb048gold

Some of the brass at PCGS know. Maybe they can help us out!

Anyone out there willing to share?

Manorcourtman

Down due to obvious reasons. Higher costs, longer turnaround times, narrowing competitive prices realized. What a shame.

MORGANHUNTER2

Maybe ad- 5 second grading for a $100.00 and 3 weeks to get it back, and the motto is:

We grade them like we see them.

LanLord

<< <i>Go on eBay and see how many slabs are listed for each company. Then figure out the percentages for each. This will give you a rough estimate. >>

This is a good recommendation, however, to add data points one should check out other online auction services to the research.

It might also prove interesting to determine market share by various criteria such as modern, classic, commems, gold, severely overgraded etc.

DHeath

A few months ago, PCGS announced their 10 millionth coin holdered. NGC posted their number at 11 million. According to the pop reports at that time, about 11% of PCGS's holdered coins were moderns (1964 to date), and slightly less for NGC (9%). State quarters were 21% of the PCGS moderns, and 30% were bullion coins. NGC's ratios were similar. I assume ANACS owns a significant portion of the market, and there are countless coins in other holders. If I were guessing at marketshare, I'd guess PCGS/NGC at about 30% each, ANACS at 25%, and ICG/PCI/AGC/SEGS/etc etc, comprising the other 15%.

LanLord

Well, I did a highly unscientific search on a couple different auction sites (Ebay, Yahoo and Overstock.com). The percentages of coins on those sites are as listed below:

Ovestock: NGC - 83%, PCGS - 14%, ANACS - 3%, Accugrade - 0%, PCI - 0%
Ebay: NGC - 33%, PCGS - 49%, PCI - 9%, ANACS - 9%, Accugrade - 0%
Yahoo: NGC - 61%, PCGS - 29%, PCI - 6%, ANACS - 4%, Accugrade - 0%

As stated above, these are highly unscientific, I envested a grand total of about 2 minutes in this research. I didn't do an all encompassing search for all slab manufacturers nor did I look for all variations (i.e. ACG versus accugrade).

Take it for what it's worth.

oreville

They sell coins in slabs at overstock.com????????????

badger

This is a great question, because ultimately the winner in TPG is the one with the most coins in their holders. I assume most posters to this board have a predominance of PCGS holdered coins. So, we would like to see PCGS win this war. You would have to ask what causes people to submit to TPG service or what is valued? My guesses are:

Must Haves:
- validation of coin as authentic
- consistency in grading
- reputation and stability of company

Differentiation:
- attractive display of coins
- quality within grade
- grading costs
- turnaround time
- ancillary services

What do you think are the key factors??

In a constructive spirit, I would offer the following.
PCGS and NGC both meet the 'must haves'.

Toss up on 'display'. I like the PCGS holder but it seems to scratch easier.
Toss up on 'grading costs' as not always a factor

PCGS gets the 'quality within grade'.

NGC gets the 'Turnaround time'.

Toss up on 'ancillary service' PCGS wins on registry. NGC wins on conservation services.

Net net = tie.

I'd like to see PCGS win big. The question is to PCGS as to what can be done to break the tie?
(Hopefully taken in spirit of constructive feedback.)

Coin Finder

Well did not PCGS just go over the 10,000,000 slab mark recently?

The 10 millionth coin was jaut a few months ago.

How many total coins are in NGC anyone know?

How about ANAcs?

Tbig

coinguy1

<< <i>This is a great question, because ultimately the winner in TPG is the one with the most coins in their holders >>

I don't necessarily agree with that, despite the fact that the popularity (in terms of submissions) is a key factor.



<< <i>A few months ago, PCGS announced their 10 millionth coin holdered. NGC posted their number at 11 million. >>

I think it's worth noting that PCGS had a head start, too.

nwcs

And that the numbers don't factor in crackouts and resubmissions.

badger

"ultimately the winner in TPG is the one with the most coins in their holders"

Coinguy1, I drew the analogy from the auto market. Each auto maker tries to have high volume models (even at lower margin) because the incremental revenue allow investment. Porsche nearly went under due to focusing only on specialty cars. Had to start selling R&D services to other makes.

I feel the volume base in coins drives collectors, collectability and loyalty.
The incremental $ allows things like registry luncheons, displays, ancillary services, etc.

I know it's not an exact science,, but it seems like with some effort PCGS could be the winner in all the differentiation categories. The NGC competitive threat in conservation and turnaround time needs to be answered IMHO.

Does this sound too much like I'm at work?? Sorry, back to collecting now.

dorkkarl

as someone who couldn't care less about plastic, yet looks at probably thousands of coins, i can probably give a pretty unbiased opinion. i'd guess ngc is at 40%, pcgs at 30%, anacs at 15%, the rest are "other" slabs.

ngc's market share is DEFINITELY on the rise.

K S

coinguy1

Badger, the main point of my disagreement was as follows: The idea of having the most coins floating around in one company's holders doesn't have to equate with having the best reputation and the most eagerly sought after coins/holders. The latter two considerations can make up (even in terms of profits) for grading fewer coins.


<< <i>The NGC competitive threat in conservation and turnaround time needs to be answered IMHO. >>

If I were calling the shots at PCGS I would not offer a competing conservation service. I think the manner in which it's being executed will eventually end up being a (big) black eye for NGC. The turnaround times are a different matter.


<< <i>Does this sound too much like I'm at work?? >>

You'll have to be the judge of that.

badger

Coinguy1,

I see these as discussion points not really disagreements.

I support your comment about the number of coins not implying reputation or desirability. I think the reputation and desirability drive the number of coins.

Just want PCGS to win this war to help protect my investment in PCGS-holdered material.

BAJJERFAN

It might be instructive to go to the NGC registry and look at the ratio of NGC to PCGS coins in each set, then of the total coins listed. I would be willing to bet that there are MORE PCGS THAN NGC coins in the NGC registry.

DHeath

Karl, you're right, it is. ANA, Ebay, NCS, turnaround, and pricing are all factors. The collectors who rely most on holders are new to the hobby, and are buying and selling inexpensive coins, usually common coins or moderns. When gradeflation has run its course and prices stabilize, that'll be where all the revenue is generated. JMO Common sense says there are more inexpensive coins to holder than priceless rarities. We'll see.

oreville

Hmm, I like your concise and incisive thinking, badger.

Coinguy1: When badger stated: The NGC competitive threat in conservation and turnaround time needs to be answered IMHO. I do not believe badger meant that PCGS needs to start up a conservation service but that some kind of a marketing response is warranted.

IrishMike

<< <i>Coinguy1,

I see these as discussion points not really disagreements.

I support your comment about the number of coins not implying reputation or desirability. I think the reputation and desirability drive the number of coins.

Just want PCGS to win this war to help protect my investment in PCGS-holdered material. >>



An honest post which reflects the reality in much of the thinking that goes on here.

tradedollarnut

It seems to me that the factor that drives where a coin ends up is where it receives the ultimate value. Whether that be at a higher grade or a higher premium.

The reason that more coins are going a certain direction is because the market discount for the higher grade has been severely reduced as of late. Hot market.

DHeath

Not all coins are registry coins. I have 18 coins in at NGC right now on 3 invoices, mostly errors. My total grading fee is less than $250 including shipping. They usually turn them around in less than a month. Had I chosen to send them to PCGS, the grading fee would have been in the $550 range, and they would have taken twice as long. Who cares if my 44 off-center Lincoln on a T1 planchet grades Au53 or AU55.

nencoin

In regards to our own submissions as a dealer, 5-6 years ago we were about 50/50 split with submissions to PCGS and NGC. There was a gradual shift to more NGC submissions on our part, and within the last year there's been a big shift to NGC (we're probably 85% NGC/15% PCGS). No other reason that turnaround/service.

flaminio

<< <i>Ovestock: NGC - 83%, PCGS - 14%, ANACS - 3%, Accugrade - 0%, PCI - 0% >>

Where are the graded coins on overstock? I went there and only saw a bunch of cheezy SQ jank.

EDIT: Nevermind, found it -- in the auctions section. Not much there, tho'....

MORGANHUNTER2

if math were to be include in everyone's eq of who is better or what market share a TPG has figure out how many graders PCGS/NGC/Anacs has, and the average time to review a coin (5-8 sec.) give it a grade and move on to the next, etc. if pcgs is currently at 10 mil and ngc is over 11 mil- Anacs- ?? I would venture to guess based on the current turnaround times at pcgs they must have 30-60 million coins still to review with more coming in daily.

This does not implicate that PCGS is the better of all TPG's, what it says for the current collector is we have a better maketable product- you;ll just have to wait your turn or give me a hundred and I'll push it thru faster.

Deb048gold

Badger, you said it well!
"Just want PCGS to win this war to help protect my investment in PCGS-holdered material."


Years from now will our coins be holstered in PCGS plastic or another competitor? PCGS tougher grading standards serves us well in the long run and this consistency MUST be maintained above all else. Forget the slow turnaround time and other problems as irritating as it is. Continuance of high grading standards from PCGS will ensure the protection of our investments!

morgannut2

I see a general trend at auctions material lately towards more gold issues in NGC with PCGS still bringing the premium in silver issues, all condition issues being equal. The recent increase in NGC Morgans is a temporary market phenonmia IMHO due to demand, uninformed grade-only lookers, and turn-around times. Also, a lot of 5"-7" clear reflection Morgan PL's are going into NGC DPL holders if there are clean watery mirrors with enough haze to prevent clarity at 8" which PCGS recently demands. It won't matter for equal coins, but the nicer PCGS material should hold value better in a down market at some point, leading to larger PCGS market share from crossovers. Ultimately PCGS has to find a low cost geographic location, at least for their lower tier operations, to make this segment more profitable and fast.

topstuf

For years PCGS has undergraded coins.

NGC has mildly overgraded them.

In a market of newbies, the higher grade is what they want.

PCGS is changing more to market grading. Good or bad? Time will tell. I think NGC will eventually suffer from "conserved" coins which will begin reverting to past problems in their holders. It will taint the entire NGC spectrum as no identification is made as to whether the coin has been conserved or not.
While PCGS may have many conserved coins reach them without their knowledge, PCGS will also have coins that change in the slab, but having not solicited it as a regular part of their business, their portion should be smaller.

ANACS has the advantage of getting the authenticity AND the faults mentioned while still preserving the coin as it exists TODAY.

Eventually, as in any market, there will come a day when coins may become such an accepted work of art that they will be regarded as are classic cars with even "doctored" ones being acceptable.

Coins ...look.... to be in a trend of collectibility that may become more forgiving rather than less.