Is it ok to bid on a coin on Ebay that you consigned to a dealer to sell for you?

IrishMike

Admittedly I don't buy much on Ebay any more, but there was a situation where a member here had consigned some coins to a dealer, known for getting strong bids on Ebay. I was interested in some of the coins and when I talked to the owner he admitted they were his and that he had bid on them because of seller's remorse. Would it have been more ethical to just pull the auctions and state that they were no longer for sale? The owner did not win any of the coins they had bid on. I am not posting this to impugn anyone's integrity but to see how others feel about this. I decided not to bid on any of the coins.

Outhaul

It would have been ethical to pull the auctions. What he did is tantamount to shill bidding. Most unethical.

Cheers,

Bob

fcloud

I agree with Bob. Don't bid on your own stuff.

magikbilly

highly unethical

Shamika

Either pull the auction (preferred) or bid $999,999,999,999.99 to assure that you win the auction. Anything less is without a doubt a shill bid.

BigGreek

Mike,

bidding on your own auction (even when you really want to win it) is shill
bidding. The reason is that you are artificially driving up the price. In the
case where the seller really wants to win the item (back), its still shill
bidding because the seller may decide the price has gone high enough
where he can now part with the item. It's no different that someone who
bid up the price just to get a higher selling price out of some unsuspecting
buyer.

The seller can always cancel the auction if he decides he doesn't want to
sell.

Here's a question: if a buyer suspects shill bidding on something he won,
how does he go about having ebay take action?

-Dimitri.

K6AZ

Not only is it not ethical, it is illegal and people have been brought up on federal charges doing it.

Edited to add: <sarcasm> But hey, if board members here do it, it's OK. </sarcasm>

LeeG

On my first eBay purchase I felt the seller was Shill Bidding. I notified eBay and they did nothing? Heres a link on eBay's seller shill bidding policy:

Seller Shill Bidding


Lee

BillJones

VERY UNETHICAL

If you decide not to sell something, withdraw it from sale or look to replace it.

Russ

Not even a question or a grey area on this one. I would hope that the seller cancelled the consignor's bids as soon as he saw them.

Russ, NCNE

elwood

How does a reserve and a shill differ?

my3cents

I went to an auction once that was publicized as NO RESERVE, NO Minimums. The auctioneer opened the bidding at $1million and getting no bids, proceeded to go down in increments of $100k. When he got to $300k, he ended the auction stating that he got no bids.

I was prepared to start at $150k.

OBVIOUSLY, the advertising for the auction was false. There must have been a reserve. OR, the seller simply said he would "buy it" and pay the auctioneer at 300k.

Either way - a LOT of dissappointed people.

UncleJoe

I talked to the owner he admitted they were his and that he had bid on them because of seller's remorse.
The owner did not win any of the coins they had bid on

With all due respect, if you believe the first line, then the second line shouldn't have happened.

Apparentely his remorse went away when the price went higher.

Joe.

Russ

<< <i>How does a reserve and a shill differ? >>



A reserve is honest and ethical, a shill is not.

Russ, NCNE

BillJones

<< <i>How does a reserve and a shill differ? >>



A reserve is an up-front price that the seller sets BEFORE the sale. It may an announced opening bid, or it might be "on the book" as a bid that is entered while the auction is progress. At its best a reserve protects the seller from having his lots sold at an unfairly low price.

Shilling comes in when the seller or one of his paid employees or a toady drives up the price during the course of an auction. The game is to make the ultimate purchaser pay more than they otherwise would have if the sale had been conducted ethically.

Generally a reserve is limited to ONE BID, which sets a floor on the auction price of the item. A shill can continue for as long as the traffic will bear.

TUMUSS

It would seem to me that ANY seller that accepts consignments would have a strict policy against shilling one's own coins. And if they don't...well then it's probably part of the sellers "business plan" because it increases their cut as well.

TUMUSS

<< <i>Here's a question: if a buyer suspects shill bidding on something he won, how does he go about having ebay take action? >>



"Ebay & Take Action" are three words that just don't belong in the same sentence.

gemtone65

Shill bidding is illegal, dishonest, and deceptive. A reserve is a legal means to identify the minimum price acceptable to the seller. It is set prior to the sale, not during the sale, and so it is not intended to affect bidding activity. The reserve may or may not be transparent, but Heritage is leading the way towards revealing the reserve before the end of internet bidding and prior to the commencement of floor bidding. This admirable policy is long overdue. How many of us have travelled a long way for a coin only to find out after the auction that the secret reserve was above the maximum we were willing to pay?

orie

Shill bidding is SOP on ebay. It's illegal but it all depends on where you set your personnal ethics. You have to be the judge of that, not me. I'm not going to bid on your coin for more then an amount I'm comfortable with. It's my responsibility to know the value.

Neptune

Is it ok to bid on a coin on Ebay that you consigned to a dealer to sell for you?

NO! - and true, if he actually had buyer's remorse, he would have bid high enough to win the coin back ........ not 'just' enough to drive up the bid! Or was his bid 2nd highest? That story is a cover-up because he was busted, IMHO.

do you have a link to auction?

IrishMike

Neptune this auction occured probably more than one year ago. I chose not to bring it to the boards because the seller was caught off guard when his consignor bid and I believe him because he has always been straight. I think the consingnor got nervous and bid and believe that he nows realize it was not a right thing to do. The only reason I brought it up now because there was a comment in another thread where someone mentioned that members here have done this and they were brought to task. Whether it is a common thing I don't know, I hope not. BTW I pointed this out to another board member who looked at the auction at the time it was going on in case if it ever did come up here he could if he wanted to back me up on this. I think this is a good time to bring it up just to remind everyone that its probably not a good thing to do and some of the folks here do things that can be at the least questioned.

TUMUSS

<< <i> I chose not to bring it to the boards because the seller was caught off guard >>



Consigment sellers woul not be caught off-guard if their policy stated something like...."I you are caught bidding on your own coins, the auction will be canceled IMMEDIATELY, and a $100 fee will be charged for the return of your coin."


Edited to add: "Caught off guard" suggests that there was no idea this could/would/have happened...this excuse is ONLY good once.

Russ

<< <i>BTW I pointed this out to another board member who looked at the auction at the time it was going on in case if it ever did come up here he could if he wanted to back me up on this. >>



I was that board member, and what Mike has said is 100% true.

Russ, NCNE

K6AZ

Of course what Mike said is true. And in addition to the one board member you speak of, there have been at least three others who have done the same thing with that seller.

Tonekiller

<< <i>Of course what Mike said is true. And in addition to the one board member you speak of, there have been at least three others who have done the same thing with that seller. >>



Agreed. Eyes wide open from now on.

nwcs

I just don't know why anyone would want to bid on their own stuff. If you make the decision to sell, sell. If you're not sure, don't sell. Sure, there are coins I wish I could have back. But they're gone. And it's done with.

ER

You should make a poll for this. Has anyone ever made a poll for this? Be Interesting.
My answer is NO.