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Imagine you're at the FUN show and a huge bomb goes off....

.....in the showroom and almost everyone leaves in a panic. Those who don't leave in a panic are knocked unconscious. None of the dealers take their coins with them. You are completely unhurt.

You have a video camera with you because you you were doing a story for a home town TV station.

There is a dealer there who you know has insurance with a company that is owned by a guy who is known to support white supremist Nazis in Germany that are gaining a foothold and which are committing horrible crimes. (You know this because the Coin Wold that came out immediately before the FUN show did an expose on the insurance company, because many dealers have insurance with this company. ) This dealer has unc early gold by the dozens, unc early copper by the dozens, and other coins that are worth at least 30 million (all slabbed by pcgs and ngc). He is by far the largest dealer at the show.

The insurance company is not huge and the losses to it will be so large that it will go under and there will be funding cut off to the white supremist group that will be directly correlated to saved lives in Germany.

Do you video tape thieves who are beginning to loot the place or do you join in and empty your large camera bad and grab hundreds of coins that will be worth tens of millions allowing you to never have to work again? The dealer will be fully reimbursed for the loss and you will not get caught.

(This scenario is a total fantasy; any similarities to real life are coincidental.)
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Comments

  • Ignoring image
  • I want to point out that this is the third DIFFERENT subject matter Adrian has edited to this threadimage
  • Aw c'mon Adrian - don't you want to get the blood flowing in the US Forum this morning? image
  • mrearlygoldmrearlygold Posts: 17,858 ✭✭✭
    Chicken



    Tomimage
  • Alright. I'll change the title of the thread to something controversial and then we can watch it sink right to the bottom.
  • ttt
  • ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭
    This thread could be alternatively titled, "Do you believe the ends always justify the means?" image
  • Actually, I started a thread by mistake in this forum and was encouraged to start something controversial so I gave it my best shot. Like I said, it will probably float right to the bottom.
  • What an imagination you have! I find that scenario so unrealistic I'm having problems imagining myself in that position.

    I think the video footage would be valuable to a TV network so that is a consideration. I think lawless thieves might forcefully take the camera and/or hurt me to protect themselves.
  • You will be unhurt no matter what you will do and you won't get caught.

    I'll add something else. The insurance company is not huge and the losses to it will be so large that it will go under and there will be funding cut off to the white supremist group that will be directly correlated to saved lives in Germany.
  • foodudefoodude Posts: 3,568 ✭✭✭
    Andrian, are you teaching a law school course this semester, and this is a variation of one of the exam questions?image
    Greg Allen Coins, LLC Show Schedule: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/573044/our-show-schedule-updated-10-2-16 Authorized dealer for NGC, PCGS, CAC, and QA. Member of PNG, RTT (Founding Platinum Member), FUN, MSNS, and NCBA (formerly ICTA); Life Member of ANA and CSNS. NCBA Board member. "GA3" on CCE.
  • No, but that's a good idea. It would make a good ethics question.

    I liked the last part I included about saving lives by making the insurance company go under.

    foodude - is that the Franklin that sold for 69K?
  • Dis is wanna dem questions from a pre-employment personality profile !

    There is no right answer !
    image
  • Never steal so I would videotape the thiefs so they might be able to be identified later by police and caught.

    Cameron Kiefer
  • "There is no right answer ! "

    That is so true, 100. Maybe you could frame it - Do you want to save lives and live in luxury or do you want to do what is technically right when you could help right the the wrong?

  • foodudefoodude Posts: 3,568 ✭✭✭
    foodude - is that the Franklin that sold for 69K?

    No, my icon is just a gorgeous 1960 PCGS MS65 endroller. The Franklin that sold for $60,000+ was the highst (PCGS) grade FBL '53-S- MS6FBL. I think it sold a couple years later for less, but I don't recall the amount. My '53-S is only MS65FBL.
    Greg Allen Coins, LLC Show Schedule: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/573044/our-show-schedule-updated-10-2-16 Authorized dealer for NGC, PCGS, CAC, and QA. Member of PNG, RTT (Founding Platinum Member), FUN, MSNS, and NCBA (formerly ICTA); Life Member of ANA and CSNS. NCBA Board member. "GA3" on CCE.
  • OuthaulOuthaul Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Theft is theft...no matter how noble the cause.


  • << <i>Theft is theft...no matter how noble the cause. >>




    I would agree. Tape it and turn it in.

    TBT
  • coinlieutenantcoinlieutenant Posts: 9,310 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oh to live in a black and white world would be so grand.
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,252 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This scenario is a total fantasy; any similarities to real life are coincidental.

    Yeah, right. image

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,252 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Theft is theft...no matter how noble the cause.

    All theft may be theft, but that doesn't mean all theft is immoral. For example, would it be immoral to steal WMD from Saddam? How about stealing your son's stash of heroin? How about stealing incriminating evidence for a crime of which you are innocent?
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • Mr.Eureka is right. Not all theft is immoral or unethical.
  • I think most of the dealers would rather have the coins than the insurance money.
    I say this because I see the same coins in their showcase year after year after year.
    PCGS,NGC & ANACS certified toned Morgan dollar dealer.
    image
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,252 ✭✭✭✭✭
    To answer the question, if I was 100% confident that the allegations against the insurer were accurate, I'd take the coins in a heartbeat. I would not, however, allow myself to personally benefit. All proceeds of sales would go to charitable causes.
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • Wow, I had no idea coin collectors were such a brave lot!


    I think it's more likely that you'd all be heading for the door with the rest of the crowd, hoping your Depends don't spring a leak...




    image
  • mrearlygoldmrearlygold Posts: 17,858 ✭✭✭
    You know Adrian, I hope you realize that for your "freedom" and "safety" the Homeland Security people may be coming to visit you because of this topic.


    Tomimage
  • First Poster Here! I have been eyeing the forums for about 5 months now, and just have now got the gumption to post.

    If it were me, I would set the camera down so it is still filming (disguising it to the best of my ability in the few seconds I have) and point it toward the thieves. I would then grab some of the coins myself out of camera range. I don't think I could resist the temptation. But, I wouldn't load down with them. Then, I think I'd High Tail it out of there!

    Stacy
    image
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,636 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm still trying to ignore it.
    Tempus fugit.
  • rainbowroosierainbowroosie Posts: 4,874 ✭✭✭✭
    NO WIN SCENARIOS: Those of you who are considering this abomination -- did you also support stacking Iraqi prisoners in pyramids as being appropriate action?? If you want to claim the moral high ground, you have to occupy it at all times, not when it is merely convenient or expedient.....For example, it is 10,000 times tougher to fight terrorists when YOU have to play by the rules, but when YOU cease to play by the rules, the BAD GUYS WIN!....Seriously, we need to examine these types of "Catch 22s" and decide what type of person/country we want to be -- we will be faced with similar "no win" situations for the foreseeable future....just my 2 centsimage
    "You keep your 1804 dollar and 1822 half eagle -- give me rainbow roosies in MS68."
    rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
  • This is nothing but a bunch of Sunday morning goonie nonsense!



    Jerry
  • mrearlygoldmrearlygold Posts: 17,858 ✭✭✭
    Joke Text Message Triggers Terror Alert

    Sun Dec 19, 8:03 AM ET


    CANBERRA, Australia - An Italian tourist aboard a flight from Sydney to Vienna caused an international security alert after he sent a joke text message from his cell phone to his wife claiming his plane had been hijacked by terrorists, the Australian government confirmed Sunday.



    The man, Antonio Casale, 35, sent the message to his wife from Kuala Lumpur during a refueling stop on a Lauda Air flight from Sydney last Sunday night, Sydney's Sunday Telegraph newspaper reported.


    Transport Minister John Anderson's spokesman confirmed the newspaper report.


    Casale claimed terrorists were in control of the plane and were taking the passengers to an unknown destination.


    His distressed wife contacted Italian police, who immediately contacted the Italian embassy in Canberra, who in turn contacted Australian Federal Police.


    Anderson's spokesman said authorities were able to quickly establish Casale's identity and discover the message was a hoax.


    The pilot was reportedly contacted while in flight by counterterrorism negotiators, who found him oblivious to any hijacking attempt.


    "The Italian police picked up on it, then the Italian embassy, the Australian Federal Police came in on it and it was quite a big operation," Anderson's spokesman said on condition of anonymity.


    "Federal police and other authorities over here have got enough on their plate without having to worry about stupidity like this as well," he added.


    The Sunday Telegraph reported Casale was taken aside by the plane's captain and detained by police when the plane landed in Vienna.


    He was questioned by police and later released without charge.
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,252 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Tom - You're trying to hijack a thread with a fake hijacking?
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • mrpaseomrpaseo Posts: 4,753 ✭✭✭
    Lets see, the correct thing to do would be to video tape right, well that would be the shakiest video of mostly ceiling that I ever took, and I swear they took them all, the extra three bags I walkd out with were freebees before the bomb... image
  • Welcome to the forum Stacy!

    Cameron Kiefer
  • elwoodelwood Posts: 2,414


    << <i>Never steal so I would videotape the thiefs so they might be able to be identified later by police and caught. >>



    Or hold the tape hostage to the insurance company and demand a 10% fee on the goods recovered.
    Please visit my website prehistoricamerica.com www.visitiowa.org/pinecreekcabins
  • mrearlygoldmrearlygold Posts: 17,858 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Tom - You're trying to hijack a thread with a fake hijacking? >>







    Never!

    Tom
  • (This scenario is a total fantasy; any similarities to real life are coincidental.)

    I think most everyone would die in real life if such a thing happened.
  • load up on the gold, sell it cheap and send the money to the starving pygmys in West Virginia.image
    If you can read this, your too close.

    A DAMMIT BOY from Jonesy 1/25/05

    Lieutenant, Covert Operations
    Subcommittee

    my first POTD award 7/16/05
    the cat ate my blue fish.
  • ARCOARCO Posts: 4,396 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Come on this is too easy! I would STEAL every last coin and just stick it to the nazi supporter, insurance man. Actually, I would just steal ALL of the coins, without all those crazy conditions. I would steal all the coins if the profits were going to go to help support a child orphanage in the congo where all the children are missing a limb or two from land mines. I AM THAT EVIL when it comes to coins. image
  • GATGAT Posts: 3,146
    The wrong bomb went off. 100% guarantee that if this one went off, zilch would be left!

    image
    USAF vet 1951-59
  • The premise of the thread is valid, but the resulting outcomes presented are preposterous. Everyone knows if a bomb was indeed planted at the FUN show, Anaconda upon seeing the bomb would throw himself on it and save everyone else from injury.
  • ??? Proper action seems clear to me. Alternate between vidiotaping the thieves and trying to help the injured. I'm surprised at the number of people here who would use the opportunity to join in the looting.
  • ERER Posts: 7,345


    << <i>??? Proper action seems clear to me. Alternate between vidiotaping the thieves and trying to help the injured. I'm surprised at the number of people here who would use the opportunity to join in the looting. >>


    I 'm sure they were just kidding...............................Yeah, right.image
  • Film the looters? Ridiculous- set the camera down- unload the bag, load coins til it's just close to a hernia, let the insurance company go belly up, take the looted coins- send them to charities that hekp those who can't help themselves- keep nothing, watch the nazis and the carrier die a quick death- and then go about your business.

    Moral? Helping end hunger/strife, getting rid of terrorisism and crooks- yeah I'll take the money n run.

    Besides if a bomb were to go off- who is going to be alive to tell about the theavery? y'all be runnin so fast for the locked doors that you will kill each other trying to get out.
  • You all missed it. To quote a quote " No one ever got hurt collecting coins " image

    Besides this is the USA - there would be so many "unconcealed" concealed weapons out I'd be on the floor with everyone else playing dead while muttering "but I'm not in Iraq! I'm not in Iraq...."
    "Any fool can use Power, but it is our wits that make us men."

    Collecting Penguins, Named Ship Coins and other assorted goodies

    Looking for Circulated coins of Papua New Guinea

    stores.ebay.com/Grumpy's-Cave
  • saintgurusaintguru Posts: 7,724 ✭✭✭
    You have a forbidden word in your message post. Please click the back button in your browser and remove this word from your post. The words that are forbidden are highlighted for you.


    You have a forbidden word in your message post. Please click the back button in your browser and remove this word from your post. The words that are forbidden are highlighted for you. Oh COME ON!! Nazis...?? Take the friggin' coins and laugh all the way. These bastidges would take your eyeballs and use them as toys!! It's a dog eat Nazi world, folks!image Nice one Adrian. Too bad most people don't hace the stones to REALLY analyze the situation!
    image
  • dpooledpoole Posts: 5,940 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Bombs? Neo-Nazis? Waaahh! I want Tom Ridge back!!

    And here I was, all worried about the auctions!

    Is this big dealer modeled after anybody we know? image
  • nwcsnwcs Posts: 13,386 ✭✭✭
    I would without question film anyone committing a crime and report it immediately. Any other alternative, no matter the circumstances, is wrong.
  • saintgurusaintguru Posts: 7,724 ✭✭✭
    Nazi sympathizer. image
    image

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