A Jefferson "Guess the grade of the Key" thread, just for fun!!
keets
Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
Simply give a guess/opinion/comment and I'll wait awhile and release the answer for discussion!! 
Al H.
Al H.
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Comments
The Ludlow Brilliant Collection (1938-64)
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
Ken
Thank You
SilverDollar
******
every treasure on Earth
to be young at heart?
And as rich as you are,
it's much better by far,
to be young at heart!
U.S. Nickels Complete Set with Major Varieties, Circulation Strikes
U.S. Dimes Complete Set with Major Varieties, Circulation Strikes
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
San Diego, CA
Hoot
The Ludlow Brilliant Collection (1938-64)
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I know nothing about what to look for in grading Jeffs, but, how can it be mint state if there is wear, as you see it, Lee? Not criticizing, just wondering.
I'd say it's probably a MS66.
any opinions??
al h.
Considering that it's in an NTC holder, I'm surprised that they didn't give it an MS-68. They are the new AGC.
It does look like a nice coin with clean surfaces, for the type, I must admit - but the toning isn't that spectacular, IMO.
every treasure on Earth
to be young at heart?
And as rich as you are,
it's much better by far,
to be young at heart!
The Ludlow Brilliant Collection (1938-64)
No problem. I'm far from an expert in this, or any other, series. I just didn't feel the coin had a strong strike and wasn't clean enough for a 65 grade. I'm probably way off base here, based on others post's, but heres an MS-65 graded by PCGS. Thanks, Lee
Edited to fix Obverse Picture
i feel as many do, that NTC tends to grade 1-2 points higher than PCGS. in the case of this coin they seem to me to be off by a point and failed to attribute the Reverse as 1938. however, they do appear to have noted the step count correctly. opinion seemed to turn to the tone, which i think is rather telling during the current Color-Mania period we're in the throes of. also, if you go back and average the grade estimates, it comes out somewhere between MS65 and MS66, ending close to what i see as MS66 Reverse of 1938 non Full Steps.
interstingly, many members are wise enough to realize that they absolutely must grade a holdered coin based solely on it's merits and take the insert with a grain of salt. in that regard, the closing price for this coin will be something to watch. a PCGS MS66 1939 Reverse of 1938 will generally close around $100-$150 on eBay. barring any crazy bidding i assume this coin will close somewhere around $50 which puts it in the bargain category.
no agenda here, and i add that because i've been castigated for posting other threads about NTC holdered coins. my main point is to help collectors---and especially newcomers---understand that they need to be cautious of the insert grade no matter who's insert it might be and to focus on learning a series and learning how to grade that series. NTC's failure to note the reverse type on this coin is universal since i've never seen one of their coins designated. while some see that as proving they are a crap service, i choose to use it as an advantage to get a more difficult coin which other collectors may not be aware of. i would also point out that PCGS and NGC only recently started to differentiate between the two reverses so coins in their holders can still be found similarly.
in short, knowledge is the key for the collector to advance and succeed. dependence on the various grading services to do things for us is limited and flawed.
al h.
The Ludlow Brilliant Collection (1938-64)
I 'll take your coin over the other one any day.
for whatever reasons, PCGS seems to be quite brutal on the Jefferson series right now. ironically, armed with that knowledge i just sent them about 5-6 coins.
hey ER, i realize the pictures aren't the same size as what was posted by Lee, but unless the images are close to the same with similar resolution, it's kind of tough to make a fair judgement, especially when the decision has that old holder bias tyied to it that this thread is taking on since i revealed the holder. already the grade assessment is heading south. in a nutshell, the NTC would look better smaller and the PCGS might not look as good in a larger picture............maybe. myself, i see the two coins as close to even outside of the holder.
this only highlights what i had hoped this thread discussion would........dicsuss. please see RGL's post a few up higher, he phrased it very well.
al h.
Sorry if my post disparaged your coin in any way. That was not my intent. Theres no doubt in my mind whatsoever you have more skill's in this series than I. I was just giving my grade opinion on your coin. I posted the pic in answer to ER's question to me. To be fair here are larger pics of the PCGS coin. Lee
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I don't think these two coins are even within 2 points of each other.....MS65
ms63
every treasure on Earth
to be young at heart?
And as rich as you are,
it's much better by far,
to be young at heart!
Steve
In memory of the USAF Security Forces lost: A1C Elizabeth N. Jacobson, 9/28/05; SSgt Brian McElroy, 1/22/06; TSgt Jason Norton, 1/22/06; A1C Lee Chavis, 10/14/06; SSgt John Self, 5/14/07; A1C Jason Nathan, 6/23/07; SSgt Travis Griffin, 4/3/08; 1Lt Joseph Helton, 9/8/09; SrA Nicholas J. Alden, 3/3/2011. God Bless them and all those who have lost loved ones in this war. I will never forget their loss.
no offense taken Lee, i think your coin is nice and was just trying to make the point that to try to assess grades from online pictures is difficult enough. trying to compare the two we have is difficult-X-two.
hey Chuck
those two dollars are night and day!!!!! the 65 is either a terrible picture or grossly overgraded.
al h.
The NTC coin grades MS64 due to it's weak strike in the upper top area of the hair and the central area of the Monticello building. These areas just don't look struck up! The other 39-D has a better strike but has some major hits on the forehead and coat not to mention the smaller nicks on the check. It grades MS64 as well and something I would need to eventually upgrade so why buy either!
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
But Leo, you call your 53-S a 66? I don't understand this... you constantly dog other's peoples coins, talking about how they have dings here and there... but, you seem to pride yourself as "The guy with the $125,000 FS 1953-S." Funny thing is... you got no takers... and it isn't the first time you've listed that coin for sale... with no takers. The coin is listed here... but, the funny thing is... with the cut across pilar four and what looks like chatter in the upper reverse field, added with the fact that your definite FS coin, which I think is probably a 65FS coin in a PCGS holder even with the bad hazy pictures, to you, is a 66 coin... but, your dogging the 39-D 65 coin, which, IMHO, is an accurately graded coin for PCGS (I actually kind of like that toning to it, even though some would say that might be "ugly"... see my previous rants about Jeffs). I think it's very interesting that you only blew up the 39-D in the PCGS holder to make your point.
I guess I could say I'm the guy with the 1938 NGC Proof 68 worth $20,000... or the guy with the 1940, Reverse of 38 Childs Pedigreed NGC Proof 65 worth $10,000... or the guy with the 39, 40, 41, 42, 42P proofs worth $25,000 each... or the guy with the 1953-S FS I cherrypicked out of a dealer's junk box, worth $50,000... heck, we could all be the guy/gal with the .05 cent nickel... but I'm not any of those. I'm the guy that enjoys collecting Jefferson Nickels. You can be the guy with the $125,000 53-S. I'm just tired of reading you dog other people's coins... I don't think I've actually seen you give a positive reply on a single coin yet. But, I hope it makes you feel better for doing it.
Leo, why don't you get that bad boy graded via PCGS... it would surely prove me wrong... but I know you won't... and even if it did... it would just prove my next point.
On a side rant... Keets... I agree with you... grading coins with a picture is almost impossible... you can only hope to find a truely gem coin that maybe worth more in the future. That was the only reason why I didn't purchase that coin off Ebay... I really thought, for the price you paid for it, it was still a steal. I appreciate you giving us the opportunity to look at your 39-D again.
Go ahead... dog me back Leo... as long as it makes you feel better.
Steve
The guy with a passion for a man named Jefferson... does that make me heterosexually challenged?
In memory of the USAF Security Forces lost: A1C Elizabeth N. Jacobson, 9/28/05; SSgt Brian McElroy, 1/22/06; TSgt Jason Norton, 1/22/06; A1C Lee Chavis, 10/14/06; SSgt John Self, 5/14/07; A1C Jason Nathan, 6/23/07; SSgt Travis Griffin, 4/3/08; 1Lt Joseph Helton, 9/8/09; SrA Nicholas J. Alden, 3/3/2011. God Bless them and all those who have lost loved ones in this war. I will never forget their loss.