Need advice on recent gold coin purchase!
Sirbear
Posts: 27
I recently purchased three Type III Double Eagle coins from 1st American Reserve, Beaumont, Texas. The three coins are: 1898P MS62; 1899S MS63; 1900S MS63. I paid $7675 for these three coins. The PCGS Price List values the coins at $5350. Did I get duped or is this a resonable markup for these coins? I need some advice. I am new at coin investing. Thanks!!
Barry 0
Comments
I recommend that you never buy coins as an investment, and do not buy them at all, unless and until you have researched them thoroughly and know what you are doing.
How long ago did you buy those coins? Depending upon your answer, I might have different follow-up suggestions/advice.
Edited to add after haiving read Bill Jones' post: My RETAIL estimate was based upon the coins having been certified by either NGC or PCGS.
Sorry guy, you got ripped. And if the coins are raw, you might be worse off.
<< <i>I am new at coin investing. >>
I'm going to refrain from commenting on the price you paid for these coins. The issue that I want to briefly address is the fact that you are refering to your recent purchase as an entry into 'coin investing' without having done proper market value research yourself and just trusting the dealer (Whom I'm assuming you have no relationship with) to give you a good price. This is a bad idea, he is not licensed to give you investment advice, and there's a reason for that. You now have three great gold coins, I suggest that you purchase some reading material on the history behind those coins and learn as much as you can about them, then move on to doing price research using realized auction prices at the major auction houses, Ebay, and other real market venues. The best thing that you can do at this point is to educate yourself enough to answer the question you pose in this post.
Good luck and welcome to the forums,
Self Indulgence | Holey Coins | Flickr Photostream
1st American Reserve
Nor did you act prudently.
1898 MS62 - $ 1,150
1899-S MS63 - $1,650
1900-S MS63 - $1,950
For a total of $4,750. I guess I ought to raise my prices.
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
Sir bear. Gently and kindly ask for a return on the coins. If they do not offer one, and are a member of the ANA or PNG, you have recourse.
John
siliconvalleycoins.com
The only items you might consider are American gold and silver eagles if you would like to speculate in metals. Otherwise, you should avoid the coin market.
Even if you were to buy well, which would be hard given you lack of expertise, you have resale the coins to get the benefits. That is often too hard for most novices. Think of going to a car dealer to dicker with him. Selling coins to a dealer at a show or at his shop is many times worse.
And use of Ebay and other such electric bid boards requires one to establish a track record. If you are not a dealer or a big time dabbler, that is hard to do.
I don't see where sirbear said that the coins were slabbed by PCGS. Are the coins raw? This could be worse than it appears.
Rule #1: don't buy "investments" when someone contacts you with the "great deal". If you want to invest in anything, you should do some research and then you select the selling source. Dang telemarketers!
Our eBay auctions - TRUE auctions: start at $0.01, no reserve, 30 day unconditional return privilege & free shipping!
Just about ALL "new" investments, collections, speculations, etc. will prove less than optimal on the buyer's side.
It's like falling off a bike. The secret is to fall off a SMALL bike first.
And, then, if you are serious.......study the market you choose. After that you can climb on a BIG bike and ride, ride, ride.
The sooner you attempt to return the coins, the better your chances of success. And, that is what you should do, even if you end up with less than your original purchase price back.
Don't let any anger, discomfort or embarrassment that you might be feeling get in the way of doing what you can to make the most of this situation. I have seen others in your shoes procrastinate because it was an unpleasant thing to think about and deal with. But, that only worked in favor of the sellers.
Edited to add: I'm familiar with many of the typical excuses, defenses, strategies, etc. that such sellers use. Keep in mind, the seller has something to gain by stalling and/or lying to you. We have no reason to be anything other than truthful/informative.
Excessive....Way Excessive. I believe the PCGS price guide by itself is bloated. Greysheet + 10-20% is the way to go.
If that fails, get ready to start sending certified mail and making life difficult for them. Keep us informed as to how a refund goes and if it doesn't happen then let us know that as well.
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>Excessive....Way Excessive. I believe the PCGS price guide by itself is bloated. Greysheet + 10-20% is the way to go. >>
Agree on point 1. Not agree on point 2. Way too arbitrary a percentage on a wide variety of coins.
Buy auction prices realized. That's a good guide, in addition to greysheet, monthly, quarterly, trends, etc etc.
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>Not agree on point 2. Way too arbitrary a percentage on a wide variety of coins. >>
Quite Frankly, I didn't add the urge factor 'X' to the equation (which is definitely not buy it at any cost )
That's from their website. I suggest you find out what exactly their "100% Customer Satisfaction Guarantee" covers. Since the wording of the guarantee itself was not on the website I would love to know what they tell you when you try to return the coins.
Chicolini: Mint? No, no, I no like a mint. Uh - what other flavor you got?
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
ICTA Dealer Listing
I can't imagine an ICTA member charging retail plus 50%. I hope Sirbear comes back and fills us in.
The financial capital of the world
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
I don't know how anyone can make any such conclusion at this point, either for or against.
I still won't be surprised if they do something like try to get you to "trade" those coins in against others, rather than simply send you a refund, without a fight. Hopefully, you already know that the ONLY acceptable and satisfactory resolution is for you to receive a full refund.
1 - Were these coins certified, and if so, by who?
2 - How did you learn about this company?
I'm curious??? What was your thought process when deciding whether to buy these coins in the first place? I'm assuming over the phone, from a stranger? And why wouldn't you do a little research before the purchase? These questions are not meant to be critical of your decision.
I just had to add that. It's been a while since I've seen any Littleton gripes.
collections: Maryland related coins & exonumia, 7070 Type set, and Video Arcade Tokens.
The Low Budget Y2K Registry Set
Sirbear, you are one of the lucky ones. We have had a few clients recently who have been burned by telemarketers selling rare coins. One guy took it in the shorts at $75,000 loss. It was his kids college money, too. Very sad. Glad your situation is turning out much better. Like coinguy1 stated, make sure that you insist on nothing but a full refund.
(xbob, I agree with you)
Our eBay auctions - TRUE auctions: start at $0.01, no reserve, 30 day unconditional return privilege & free shipping!
The three coins I purchased were certified by PCGS and NGC. I did check on their authenticity by checking the certification #s with these organizations.
When I contacted FAR, they did try to sell me other gold coins, that were actually more expensive and according to them, more rare.
Put a book or two in your bathroom so it won't be ignored.
Good luck
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Good luck, Robert
Sirbear, stick around these forums. You'll gain an enormous amount of knowledge, and develop into a ripoff artist's worst nightmare -- an informed purchaser.
Couple of other points -- PCGS and NGC are reputable grading companies, but the people who sold you those coins are not reputable. If you're just starting out, stick to PCGS and NGC-graded coins (ANACS too).
Don't buy any more old gold until you've (i) monitored these boards for awhile and (ii) engaged in some baby-step transactions in small denominations. Go small, go slow. The coins will be there tomorrow, next year, a few years from now. Coins are a fantastic collectible, but not when you take it in the shorts for big losses. And with gold, those losses can escalate quickly.
An unfortunate sidebar to coin collecting is the enormous number of frauds, ripoff artists, counterfeiters, alterers, and all manner of fetid scum who'd seek to bend you over any way they can -- you've already had a taste. You'll see at least one post a week here exposing the fraudsters, in transactions ranging from the tens of dollars to the tens of thousands of dollars. Hence, absorb and digest what is said here. (Part of the fun becomes beating the scum at their own game.)
the typical scam lately is to sell PCGS and NGC certified coins. That way the telemarketers cannot be accused of selling misrepresented product. The coins in the few scam estates that we handled were wonderful coins and all PCGS and NGC graded. The problem is that they were 3 and even 4 times CDN prices. When I showed our client a print out from Heritage's web site showing his coin (identified by slab serial number) had sold at auction just 3 months prior to his ownership for a fraction of his cost, he finally believed me. Until then, he was still under the trance of the telemarketer, who had told him how great the investment was going to be for him. I didn't think that sirbear's coins were raw, but just wanted to clarify that.
Our eBay auctions - TRUE auctions: start at $0.01, no reserve, 30 day unconditional return privilege & free shipping!
Eternally grateful,
Barry
<< <i>Again, thanks to everyone who has responded to this thread!! My best investment to this date has been subscribing to the PGCS and this forum. I am going to join the local coin club next month, and will be a frequent visitor to this site. My prayers were definitely answered, when I took the "risk" to seek advice on this site. I hope everyone has a Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays.
Eternally grateful,
Barry >>
Glad everything worked out for you in the end and welcome to the world of coin collecting
Self Indulgence | Holey Coins | Flickr Photostream
The value of something is what a willing buyer will pay a willing seller in an arms length transaction.
However, in light of this transaction I think that statement needs to be fine-tuned to be
The value of something is what an informed willing buyer will pay an honest willing seller in an arms length transaction.
To make money as an investment by buying something on the open market requires selling it to somebody dumber than yourself. I've found that it is not always easy for me to find anyone dumber than myself.
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since 8/1/6
<< <i>Thanks relayer!! After this experience, I don't think there are many dumber than me!!
You'd be surprised!
Self Indulgence | Holey Coins | Flickr Photostream
">"http://www.cashcrate.com/5663377"
thanks ddbird!!
Jade, that story about your client and the $75,000 education fund breaks my heart....
Sirbear - I hope the few thoousand your lesson cost you will not affect your lifestyle.
You are mistaken when you say you are the only one that dumb to buy something 50% over market
If you stay up late or get up early 0 you may have seen 'the coinvault'
the stuff the are peddling there seems to be 100% + over market value