Exactly. American business is operated with a get rich yesterday mentality. Everything is sacrifised for profit even if it's the health and welfare of those who generate the pro-fit. Indeed most companies consider their employees to be no more than replaceable widgets which are consumed and discarded. Employees except in top management are considered incapable of having any affect on the bottom line. It doesn't matter how morale is because employees have no input into the company or even how they do their own jobs.
Let's not forget that this is exactly what the shareholders (i.e. average American) demand of their companies. They save money to put it into stocks to see them go up in price. The corporations are giving the stockholders exactly what they want, the only real way the can get it with the huge of costs associated working around and through the requirements of the US govt.
The real problem is the size of govt and the costs it has heaped upon us as well as businesses. YEAH! I'll get MINE! Who needs any of them lousy LEGAL workers? ........you can bet that your elected representatives and senators are getting their nice slice of the pie, as well as the lobbyists and corporations that support them. But are you getting your fair share? Probably not.
The workers in my company have a major say in how their jobs are done. They also know that they perform the important services to keep the company moving, not the management per se. Without them, there is no company. The facilities could run fine with interchangeable manager who are relatively plentiful in the market, but try and find skilled technicians when you need them.
Regarding "Hey, if illegals will mow my lawn for 1/2 of what non-unionized American's will, I'm gonna hire the illegals and boost both of our standards of living. It is not the consumer's fault that American workers are uncompetitive"
This is a related but slightly different issue than I am referring to. My main concern is going into debt to buy the cheap labor.
It would be possible to envision an economy where we benefit from cheap foreign labor, but only to the point where we can pay for it with goods and services we provide.
What do you suppose will happen to the economy when the Chinese and E Indians are allowed to sell their cars here for dirt?
Economic boom since millions save $10,000+ on each and every car?
Economic disaster since thousands are RIF'd due to labor cost?
American company China Motor has signed agreements with three Chinese car makers and plans to sell compact sedans and utes from $US9000.
The Tata Group, India's largest manufacturing company, is months away from releasing the prototype for the $US2200 "people's car". The company has fired robots and hired low-wage labourers to turn modern production processes on their head, and wants the mini-priced vehicle to be an export model for the developing world.
The Tata group!?! I think I could be a manager there....
<< <i>What do you suppose will happen to the economy when the Chinese and E Indians are allowed to sell their cars here for dirt?
Economic boom since millions save $10,000+ on each and every car?
Economic disaster since thousands are RIF'd due to labor cost?
American company China Motor has signed agreements with three Chinese car makers and plans to sell compact sedans and utes from $US9000.
Inflation! There was supposed to be an auto coming here from China for just under 5K with a 100,000 mile warrantee.
Is this the same one except with a new selling price or a different one? For the life of me I can't remember the name. What I do remember is that the car had a year long waiting list...........in China! They couldn't make them fast enough.
Nothing like replacing American worker with worker/spys from China.......
The DrudgeReport
China tells U.S. not to meddle in oil deal
Wed Jun 29 2005 10:06:28 ET
China expressed opposition to interference in a government-controlled oil company's bid for the U.S.-based oil company Unocal, state media said Wednesday.
Foreign Ministry spokesman Liu Jianchao said that China National Offshore Oil Corporation's $18.5 billion offer for Unocal was "normal commercial activity between enterprises."
Liu said "economic cooperation between China and the U.S. serves the interests of both sides and commercial activities should not be interfered in or disturbed by political elements."
There are growing concerns in Washington over the deal as some U.S. officials are uncomfortable with CNOOC, 70 percent owned by the Chinese government, controlling a major player in the U.S. energy sector.
Xinhua reported Wednesday that CNOOC Chief Executive Fu Chengyu is heading to the United States for negotiations and to dispel concerns over the deal.
Nobody likes being told what they can and cannot do. The world is changing. It's going to be a very interesting few years ahead of us. I'm looking forward to that white sand beach where I can just kick back and watch.
By KELLY OLSEN, AP Business Writer Wed Jun 29, 4:27 AM ET
SEOUL, South Korea - Surging oil prices could curb Asia's economies, with some analysts predicting the fast-growing region — heavily dependent on oil imports — could slip into a recession if prices don't recede.
With oil prices about 50 percent higher than a year ago, the warnings are starting to mount.
South Korea's central bank said higher crude prices could shave 0.7 percentage points off economic growth this year and raise consumer prices. The Philippines has warned of a "heavy toll." Officials in Japan, the world's No. 1 oil importer, and Malaysia are voicing concerns.
"High oil prices are already weighing on growth in Asian economies," Andy Xie, economist at Morgan Stanley in Hong Kong, wrote in a report this week. "If oil prices do not recede, Asia could slide into recession in the short term."
After rising to a record close of $60.54 a barrel on Monday, crude oil prices fell back some, granting the region's importers a reprieve. In Asian trading Wednesday, light, sweet crude for August delivery was down a cent at $58.19 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange, but traders said prices could easily test the $60 mark again.
Asia's heavy reliance on oil imports, mostly from the Middle East, means higher crude prices quickly translate into higher costs for a wide range of companies, from airlines and steelmakers to computer makers and fisheries. Consumers will also have to divert more of their spending to cover higher utility and gasoline bills. The overall effect could seriously restrain economic growth.
Also, Asian oil consumers have had to pay slightly higher prices because there is less competition among suppliers than in other parts of the world. This so-called "Asian premium" can run as high as $1.50 a barrel.
But the region's economic diversity — ranging from industrial behemoths like Japan, South Korea and China to smaller economies like Singapore and Hong Kong and advanced consumer societies like Australia __ means the oil price impact can vary substantially.
Officials in Malaysia, where dozens of electronics companies have factories, are worried that high fuel prices could slow gross domestic product growth to 5-6 percent this year from 7.1 percent last year.
Likewise, growth in South Korea, home to a booming tech sector, could decline from its previous projection of 4 percent this year, the Bank of Korea warned Tuesday.
Philippine President Gloria Macapagal Arroyo said the oil spike threatens "to take a heavy toll on the entire nation."
While those economic projections are far from suggesting a recession, economist Xie warns that the impact of higher Dubai crude, an Asian benchmark, can already be seen in Thailand and South Korea.
Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra on Monday said that " GDP will definitely be affected by the oil price rise."
Export-dependent Singapore and Japan appear to be more concerned about the fallout from a global slowdown triggered by higher energy costs. Singaporean officials predict economic growth of between 3-5 percent this year, down sharply from nearly 8.5 percent in 2004.
"There may be a gradual indirect effect on the Japanese economy," Chief Cabinet Secretary Hiroyuki Hosoda, the top government spokesman, said recently about the oil price hikes. "We are worried there may be a major negative impact on the world economy."
Japan's suffering from past oil crises has forced the nation to become more fuel-efficient, with factories making fuel conservation a priority to lower production costs and consumer electronics manufacturers hyping the energy-saving merits of their air conditioners, refrigerators and washing machines.
And while surging oil prices certainly aren't welcome at a time when Japan is struggling to emerge from a decade-long slump, some automakers speculate that the turn of events could boost interest in their new fuel-efficient cars.
China, however, is cushioned by its state-owned oil companies from most swings in world oil prices. Suppliers often hold prices steady amid fluctuating world markets, taking smaller profits when import costs rise and making it losses with fatter margins when costs fall.
Also, China produces a lot of its own oil, making the impact of shifts in world prices smaller than in such places as South Korea or Japan. Retail fuel prices change so rarely that an increase in diesel prices by the government announced this week was treated as major news in state-controlled media.
In India, where the market is also dominated by state-run oil companies, the government has so far absorbed much of the impact of the price rise, but a 2.5-rupee (5 U.S. cents) increase in gasoline prices per liter this month has provoked protests across the country.
"The impact depends entirely on how much is passed on to consumers. In 1999, when something similar happened, the impact on growth was quite significant," said Abheek Barua, ABN AMRO chief economist in Bombay.
Rob Subbaraman, an economist at Lehman Brothers in Tokyo, and his colleagues lowered their 2005 growth forecast for Asian economies excluding Japan to 6.3 percent from 6.7 percent — but dismissed the idea of a serious slump across Asia.
"We expect a bigger impact from higher prices this year than last year," Subbaraman said. "We are not close to forecasting a recession for the region."
For Australia, the higher prices represent "a speed hump for consumers, and the economy generally, rather than a brick wall," said Craig James, the chief equities economist at CommSec.
"The rising cost of petrol certainly will rob some momentum from the economy," he said.
Higher oil is having a negative effect on some traditional lines of work, like fishing in New Zealand.
In Nelson, a port on the country's South Island 90 miles west of the capital Wellington, soaring oil prices are being blamed for fishermen quitting the industry.
Darren Guard, president of the Port Nelson Fishermen's Association, said that with 40 percent of income spent on diesel, it was becoming unprofitable to fish.
"It's crippling. It's at the stage where boats are being forced to tie up," he told The Nelson Evening Mail. "People have had a gutsful of beating their head against the wall."
___
Associated Press correspondents En-Lai Yeoh in Singapore, Yuri Kageyama in Tokyo, Meraiah Foley in Sydney, Hrvoje Hranjski in Manila, Ray Lilley in Wellington and Pauline Jasudason in Kuala Lumpur, Neelesh Misra in New Delhi and Grant Peck in Bangkok contributed to this report.
China buying Unocal makes a ton of sense for them. They have surplus US $$. Unocal reserves are priced at a lot less than $60/barrel. China will need more and more oil over the next 50 years. These reserves are closer to China than to the US. The deal is clearly worth much more to China than to Chevron.
Oil is a commodity. I don't see it as a security threat. China will buy the oil one way or another. Naturally Chevron would like to play on security fears rather than up the bid...
I believe Unocal does get more revenue from gas than oil. Even so they have more than 1/2 Billion barrels of oil reserves. China needs gas as well as oil.
A Chinese company bought IBM's PC business. Another is bidding for Maytag.
Bank of Amercia is bucking the trend and spending $3 Billion for a %9 stake in China Construction Bank. BAC is big in the news today with its $35 Billion bid for MBNA the US Credit Card company.
Still it seems the Chinese are looking to buy more than just bonds with their hard currency surplus.
O.K. this is really weird but maybe some of you are hearing things? Most likely just rumor?
I get this call this morning from a Lady Stock Analysts in Austin Texas. We have been friends for many years, and long ago we had a several hour conversation on the coming U.S.D. fiat problem and the potential for gold.
She is an established day trader and has her own account at E-trade where she plays with several hundred thou of here own money. I have not talked to her in more than two years.
She call this morning all in a panic, and says that last week she is watching all of this money moving out of the NY banks. She is getting lots of rumors on bad derivative trades, and scandals coming down the line from some heavy Wall Street trading firms. For several days at the end of last week she is watching live action on her screens on the floor and it looks like trades are taking place but NO trades are being done. She gets on her hot lines and tries to find out what is happening and all she gets are warnings to get out of the market, and perhaps out of the banks. She panics, closes all her trades at E-trade, as well as her account, and has the money wired. She goes to the several banks she deals with and tells them she wants her CASH. They give her nothing but problems for several days but finally she gets her money. Her inside sources tell her DO NOT pay any attention to the GOLD price movements, but go and buy a bunch!
Boy, the prices of ALL precious metals have taken a tumble over the past couple of days, and the USD has been moving upwards. I seriously wonder what the heck could be causing this, as you generally don't see all precious metals falling at the same time. (Gold has dropped something like 20 bucks in the past week).
I collect the elements on the periodic table, and some coins. I have a complete Roosevelt set, and am putting together a set of coins from 1880.
At age 59 I will take all the attention I can get.
This in June 30th:
By Richard Daughty
“In the last week foreigners have suddenly stopped buying our debt through their accounts at the Fed. And the banks have suddenly divested themselves of $74 billion in government debt. In one week! One! And the banks got rid of another $11.5 billion in "other securities", to boot!”
It looks like the Treasury and the Fed convinced Senators Schumer and Graham that their 27% tariff bill on the Chinese was a No No, if want to keep selling entitlement debt to the Chinese. They cancelled the vote on their bill last week.
The Unocal deal will be the next big test. Do we dare say no, and if we say yes what will our creditors want to buy next?
Boy, the prices of ALL precious metals have taken a tumble over the past couple of days, and the USD has been moving upwards. I seriously wonder what the heck could be causing this, as you generally don't see all precious metals falling at the same time. (Gold has dropped something like 20 bucks in the past week).
What's caused this? Manipulation. And it has nothing to do with the fundamentals of the economy really. It's just about "trading" and making money on any good news or any news "spun" to now appear "good."
The FED bumped interest rates up again, the dollar reacted by moving up. But most already knew this would happen. The traders took advantage of the move. Many gold funds were dumped to close out the quarter and the fiscal year with "booked" profits. Oil weakened slightly over the last few trading days. It has everything to do with trading and "spin" and less to do with what counts: fundamentals. It cannot go on indefinitely. The fundamentals will eventually drive gold and the US dollar index to where they should be in balance. Key commodities are still up strongly for the year as a whole. GDP also came out above the expected number so that was good for some positive spin too. As long as inflation is understated, the GDP #'s will also overstated.
In another week the short term picture could be entirely different, however it is the long term trend that counts. And the FED want's to ensure we are all only looking at short term trends of which they can affect to some degree. Richard Daughty had an interesting comment in his article this week. I paraphrase: "Wait until the general public finds out that the central bank sales of gold throughout the 1990's was only to keep the gold price down, and currencies up. And that 1/2 to 2/3 of their gold supply is gone." It only makes sense that the gold sales were conducted to depress prices and make sure money on the carry trade. The high flying 1990's and strong US dollar were in part brought to you by central bank gold sales. If the ammo is indeed gone, what next? Notice they aren't selling much of any gold these days. Now the manipulation is done with policial rhetoric and paper contracts on the comex, not with physical gold. There is no more game once these 2 methods lose their punch.
FWIW, I looked over the past charts on silver bullion and with only one exception in the last 10 years, silver has always taken a dive just before the July 4th holiday.
Call me naive, but I've generally found that past preformance is often an indicator of the silver bullion market moves.
"Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
Higashiyama, I concur 100%. We've prospered over the past 25 years by riding the backs of the world. And our politicians and CEO's sold that to them. It was a great job of salesmanship. Doesn't hurt to hold the world's currency, print money like all get out, and sell off gold stores to keep "inflation" at bay (on paper only). But the good times are running out and more and more nations are lining up and having a problem with our business plan (printing money, easy credit with artificially low interest rates, selling our manufacturing base overseas). We are now a financial services nation where even our automakers are more heavily invested in mortgages and loans than they are in their former "core" businesses.
It looks like the Treasury and the Fed convinced Senators Schumer and Graham that their 27% tariff bill on the Chinese was a No No, if want to keep selling entitlement debt to the Chinese. They cancelled the vote on their bill last week.
The Unocal deal will be the next big test. Do we dare say no, and if we say yes what will our creditors want to buy next? >>
I think the Chinese are sitting on 680 Billion Dollars. You bet this Unocal offer is a big deal and the fact that certain Chinese questioned whether or not the US Dollar is worth the paper it's printed on the other day is more of a bow shot than anything else in my opinion.
If they were to dump a few bucks on the market, the bow shot would certainly be felt everywhere.
China tells U.S. Congress to back off Tensions flare over Chinese firm’s bid for Unocal By Peter S. Goodman
Updated: 11:59 p.m. ET July 4, 2005 SHANGHAI, July 4 - The Chinese government on Monday sharply criticized the United States for threatening to erect barriers aimed at preventing the attempted takeover of the American oil company Unocal Corp. by one of China's three largest energy firms, CNOOC Ltd. Four days after the House of Representatives overwhelmingly approved a resolution urging the Bush administration to block the proposed transaction as a threat to national security, China's Foreign Ministry excoriated Congress for injecting politics into what it characterized as a standard business matter.
"We demand that the U.S. Congress correct its mistaken ways of politicizing economic and trade issues and stop interfering in the normal commercial exchanges between enterprises of the two countries," the Foreign Ministry said in a written statement. "CNOOC's bid to take over the U.S. Unocal company is a normal commercial activity between enterprises and should not fall victim to political interference. The development of economic and trade cooperation between China and the United States conforms to the interests of both sides."
Updated: 11:59 p.m. ET July 4, 2005 SHANGHAI, July 4 - The Chinese government on Monday sharply criticized the United States for threatening to erect barriers aimed at preventing the attempted takeover of the American oil company Unocal Corp. by one of China's three largest energy firms, CNOOC Ltd.
Am I the only one who figures that these guys REALLY want this company and might sweeten the offer? ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Next door to my business is a UNION 76 GAS Station(Unocal franchise)
It is owned by an Indian family. I mentioned that Unocal was a takeover target and he might end up answering to a Chinese owner--he gave me the look of.."I am about to get a new next door neighbor" if that happens.
Just want to cross-post something here also, since this thread is probably more likely to be read than the original one:
<< Yeah, it's amazing. Silver supposedly is all gone, above ground reserves all mined and sold...a crazy situation of more being sold than exists, secret banks hoarding silver in south america, big chance to make a lot of money...if you listen to the hype. There are so many people out there holding $8 silver that are just begging for some of that to be true. If you go to kitco, you can buy all the 1000 oz lots of silver you want at $7.14 an oz, pretty darn rare indeed. Silver is so hyped, so manipulated, and so available that it is good sport to watch every body yell when it goes up 10 cents and panic when it drops the same amount. >>
Let's say you own a coin dealership. You purchase five 1893-S PCGS XF45 Morgan dollars. You sell fifty 1893-S XF45 Morgan dollars on eBay--forty-five more than you actually own. What's going to happen when the fifty buyers come knocking on your door, demanding delivery of their purchase?
Let's say you own a major bank. You purchase 100,000 ounces of silver. You sell 1,000,000 ounces of silver, total, to ten customers (each customer purchases 100,000 ounces of silver). What's going to happen when those ten buyers come knocking on your door, demanding delivery of your purchase? SIMPLE, you, say. Just buy 900,000 ounces on COMEX, then request a delivery date. Only problem is the person you bought that silver from actually only owns 900,000 ounces of silver, but has sold 9,000,000 ounces to various customers. He cannot fill your order and regrets to inform you that he is declaring bankruptcy (which means you will ultimately recover about 10% of your money, less attorney's fees, since his assets--1,000,000 ounces of silver--can only cover 10% of his obligations). Now that you've lost the purchase price of the 900,000 ounces of silver, and still don't have enough silver to cover YOUR OWN obligations. What do you do?
One of the greatest financial crimes of our time is that the federal government has allowed the COMEX Ponzi scheme to go unchecked.
I heard they were making a French version of Medal of Honor. I wonder how many hotkeys it'll have for "surrender."
<< I think the Chinese are sitting on 680 Billion Dollars. You bet this Unocal offer is a big deal and the fact that certain Chinese questioned whether or not the US Dollar is worth the paper it's printed on the other day is more of a bow shot than anything else in my opinion.
If they were to dump a few bucks on the market, the bow shot would certainly be felt everywhere. >>
One other nation that believed the U.S. to be economically and militarily impotent comes to mind--Japan, in 1941.
I heard they were making a French version of Medal of Honor. I wonder how many hotkeys it'll have for "surrender."
Copper inventories remaining near three-decade lows is nothing new, but recent strikes in Arizona and in Chile are, and we are hearing that investors who were shorting copper stocks last week in anticipation of weaker copper prices are being forced to cover equity positions in PD, PCU, BHP, and FCX on strike concerns within the sector and further floods at India's Hindalco Industries mine. (According to the NYMEX, copper supplies were down 28 short tons at 15,269 short tons as of late Friday.)
<< <i><< I think the Chinese are sitting on 680 Billion Dollars. You bet this Unocal offer is a big deal and the fact that certain Chinese questioned whether or not the US Dollar is worth the paper it's printed on the other day is more of a bow shot than anything else in my opinion.
If they were to dump a few bucks on the market, the bow shot would certainly be felt everywhere. >>
One other nation that believed the U.S. to be economically and militarily impotent comes to mind--Japan, in 1941. >>
Did I use the word impotent? Are you starting something with me? Why don't you have a name in which to reply to?
If not then are you suggesting that the 680 billion that the Chinese are sitting on is meaningless?
By EDITH BALAZS Associated Press Writer Posted July 7 2005, 8:44 AM EDT
BUDAPEST, HUNGARY -- Crude oil prices briefly surpassed $62 a barrel Thursday for the first time before making a sharp reversal, amid heightened market uncertainty following a string of fatal explosions in the British capital.
Nearly simultaneous blasts rocked several London subway stations and ripped apart a double-decker bus during the morning rush hour, police said, causing at least two deaths and reportedly injuring more than 90 people.
Light, sweet crude for August delivery on the New York Mercantile Exchange fell $1.48 to $59.80 a barrel in electronic trading by afternoon in Europe. It had earlier hit a new high of $62.10 a barrel Thursday, a day after closing at a record settlement price of $61.28 a barrel on the Nymex, where oil has been traded since 1983.
Heating oil and unleaded gas both fell more than 3 cents to $1.7643 a gallon and $1.7503, respectively.
At London's International Petroleum Exchange, August Brent futures slumped $1.08 to $58.77 a barrel.
"The market is very concerned at the moment, but it's too early to draw any conclusions as we are in the middle of events and no one seems to have a clear idea of what exactly is going on," said Frederic Lasserre, head of commodities research with Paris-based SG Securities.
"The instant market reaction (to events in London), was the same as in the case of the 9/11 attacks, which had a huge impact of consumers' psychology and drove down demand," Lasserre said.
The events in London more than offset the bullish reaction to hurricane-related worries from the Gulf of Mexico, with crude prices dropping as much $2.50 in five minutes, Lasserre said.
He said concerns over the tight supply-demand balance would soon again be the major focus of the markets.
Worries over possible glitches in the U.S. supply network had sent crude prices to record highs as storms approached the Gulf of Mexico. On Wednesday, storm-related power outages disrupted some oil production and refining operations in the Gulf of Mexico.
The refinery snags caused by Tropical Storm Cindy were minor and temporary, but with petroleum producers preparing for Hurricane Dennis, the flow of oil from the region was reduced by almost 200,000 barrels per day.
Petroleum producers evacuated 85 production platforms and 11 drilling rigs, according to the Minerals Management Service, which said 190,000 barrels per day of oil had been shut-in as a result. That is less than 1 percent of daily demand in the United States.
Traders fear a repeat of last year's Hurricane Ivan, which damaged oil platforms in the Gulf of Mexico and caused others to shut down for months.
Almost 44 million barrels of oil production was lost between September 2004 and February 2005, while natural gas output declined over the same period by 172 billion cubic feet.
Traders said the rally exemplified the energy market's skittishness about any lost output at a time when the global supply cushion is thin.
Crude oil futures are about 60 percent above year ago levels, though still below the inflation-adjusted high above $90 a barrel reached in 1980.
* __
Associated Press Writer Gillian Wong in Singapore contributed to this report
<< Did I use the word impotent? Are you starting something with me? Why don't you have a name in which to reply to?
If not then are you suggesting that the 680 billion that the Chinese are sitting on is meaningless?
What is it you are suggesting? >>
I'm suggesting that if the Chinese think they can threaten to ruin our economy if we don't let them have their way, they are in for a major surprise. My name is David.
I heard they were making a French version of Medal of Honor. I wonder how many hotkeys it'll have for "surrender."
'm suggesting that if the Chinese think they can threaten to ruin our economy if we don't let them have their way, they are in for a major surprise.
do you not see the irony though? the chinese have come to realize the US govt is a sham. they earned those dollars honestly and now we change the rules on them?
they have a right to use those dollars any darn way they please. all 860 billion at once if they feel like it.
so in summary, it appears the chinese will ruin our economy if they spend their dollars. great. just fricking great. buy gold. buy property. buy rare art. buy assets and get rid of those lousy dollars before you are the last one holding them.
<< <i><< Did I use the word impotent? Are you starting something with me? Why don't you have a name in which to reply to?
If not then are you suggesting that the 680 billion that the Chinese are sitting on is meaningless?
What is it you are suggesting? >>
I'm suggesting that if the Chinese think they can threaten to ruin our economy if we don't let them have their way, they are in for a major surprise. My name is David. >>
David, the Chinese aren't threatening anyone.
It's not the Chinese taking shots at the economy here it's the government here in tandem with the ignorance which has become almost epidemic.
We are our own worst enemies.
Trust me, you have to go there to see with your own eyes what's happening.
<< so in summary, it appears the chinese will ruin our economy if they spend their dollars. great. just fricking great. buy gold. buy property. buy rare art. buy assets and get rid of those lousy dollars before you are the last one holding them. >>
Do you honestly think the world's #1 military power will stand idly by and let the Chinese ruin our economy? Come on people, get real.
<< do you not see the irony though? the chinese have come to realize the US govt is a sham. they earned those dollars honestly and now we change the rules on them? >>
What do you mean by change the rules? I think mrearlygold was implying that the Chinese could use all their dollars as a bargaining position, tantamount to saying "Stand in our way and we'll ruin your economy." Nobody is saying that they can't spend their money, but if they DUMP all the money at once in order to show us they can, they'll have issues
I heard they were making a French version of Medal of Honor. I wonder how many hotkeys it'll have for "surrender."
<< <i>'m suggesting that if the Chinese think they can threaten to ruin our economy if we don't let them have their way, they are in for a major surprise.
do you not see the irony though? the chinese have come to realize the US govt is a sham. they earned those dollars honestly and now we change the rules on them?
they have a right to use those dollars any darn way they please. all 860 billion at once if they feel like it.
so in summary, it appears the chinese will ruin our economy if they spend their dollars. great. just fricking great. buy gold. buy property. buy rare art. buy assets and get rid of those lousy dollars before you are the last one holding them. >>
<< David, the Chinese aren't threatening anyone. >>
That's how I read your previous post:
<< I think the Chinese are sitting on 680 Billion Dollars. You bet this Unocal offer is a big deal and the fact that certain Chinese questioned whether or not the US Dollar is worth the paper it's printed on the other day is more of a bow shot than anything else in my opinion. >>
My apologies if that is not what you meant. I agree that we are in trouble. Our nation's policies change every 4-8 years, and any good legislation can be overturned just like that. Politicians have no foresight. That, more than anything, may be our downfall. Our nation used to be run responsibly, but now politicians do whatever they think might get them a few votes, no matter what impact it has on our nation as a whole.
Some in this thread see doom and gloom around the corner. I don't see any dramatic crashes, just a slow loss in our world power.
I heard they were making a French version of Medal of Honor. I wonder how many hotkeys it'll have for "surrender."
David the policies that the vast majority of people in this country FOLLOW have not changed in half a century although the spending of this governmenment and increased theft of the peoples incomes has gone up to a poit where from an economic standpoint, we're screwed.
You have to stop thinking that a military complex is going to control the world. It's not and it's getting to the point where we are being laughed at with people around the world saying "is that what's left of America? A military? What happened to Freedom, Integrity, and a people we could look UP to?"
We're laughed at in lots of places and "pitied" in others. It's been an amazing transformation in just the last couple of decades. And a sad one at that.
I'll reply to your quotes in bold here
Politicians have no foresight. That, more than anything, may be our downfall. Our nation used to be run responsibly, but now politicians do whatever they think might get them a few votes, no matter what impact it has on our nation as a whole.
Correct.
Politicians are lowlifes who don't have any loyalty to anyone but their own bottom line which includes a huge amount of money, and power.
Why do you think a president spends 100 million dollars for a 250 grand a year job?
The greatest scam they do is when people say "what a dumb thing that is". You think there're dumb? They're not dumb. We are. They have the power to send your kids to fight a war in a place where we don't belong, get rich doing so and then scam people into thinking "this is an honorable thing to do......)
B/S. They're good at what they do. Lie, cheat, steal and kill.
Don't be angry with another country who frankly is making some money and now wants to invest it. What would you say if they DID NOT want to invest that money here? Think about it.
So now they want to invest it and they're told NO?
1990's? Maybe in 1995 when the gov't was shut down for 2 weeks. 1980's? Outspent the Russians. 1970's? Liberal Democrats called the shots. 1960's? Lyndon Baines "There's no social program we can't afford" Johnson 1950's? Republicans balanced budget cratered the economy.
1990's? Maybe in 1995 when the gov't was shut down for 2 weeks. 1980's? Outspent the Russians. 1970's? Liberal Democrats called the shots. 1960's? Lyndon Baines "There's no social program we can't afford" Johnson 1950's? Republicans balanced budget cratered the economy.
How far back we have to go? >>
1930's confiscation of gold and other property 1940's various socialist programs still bleeding us dry
Comments
widgets which are consumed and discarded. Employees except in top management are considered incapable of having any affect on the bottom line. It doesn't matter how morale
is because employees have no input into the company or even how they do their own jobs.
Let's not forget that this is exactly what the shareholders (i.e. average American) demand of their companies. They save money to put it into stocks to see them go up in price. The corporations are giving the stockholders exactly what they want, the only real way the can get it with the huge of costs associated working around and through the requirements of the US govt.
The real problem is the size of govt and the costs it has heaped upon us as well as businesses. YEAH! I'll get MINE! Who needs any of them lousy LEGAL workers? ........you can bet that your elected representatives and senators are getting their nice slice of the pie, as well as the lobbyists and corporations that support them.
But are you getting your fair share? Probably not.
The workers in my company have a major say in how their jobs are done. They also know that they perform the important services to keep the company moving, not the management per se. Without them, there is no company. The facilities could run fine with interchangeable manager who are relatively plentiful in the market, but try and find skilled technicians when you need them.
roadrunner
Regarding "Hey, if illegals will mow my lawn for 1/2 of what non-unionized American's will, I'm gonna hire the illegals and boost both of our standards of living. It is not the consumer's fault that American workers are uncompetitive"
This is a related but slightly different issue than I am referring to. My main concern is going into debt to buy the cheap labor.
It would be possible to envision an economy where we benefit from cheap foreign labor, but only to the point where we can pay for it with goods and services we provide.
What do you suppose will happen to the economy when the Chinese and E Indians are allowed to sell their cars here for dirt?
Economic boom since millions save $10,000+ on each and every car?
Economic disaster since thousands are RIF'd due to labor cost?
American company China Motor has signed agreements with three Chinese car makers and plans to sell compact sedans and utes from $US9000.
The Tata Group, India's largest manufacturing company, is months away from releasing the prototype for the $US2200 "people's car". The company has fired robots and hired low-wage labourers to turn modern production processes on their head, and wants the mini-priced vehicle to be an export model for the developing world.
The Tata group!?! I think I could be a manager there....
<< <i>What do you suppose will happen to the economy when the Chinese and E Indians are allowed to sell their cars here for dirt?
Economic boom since millions save $10,000+ on each and every car?
Economic disaster since thousands are RIF'd due to labor cost?
American company China Motor has signed agreements with three Chinese car makers and plans to sell compact sedans and utes from $US9000.
Inflation! There was supposed to be an auto coming here from China for just under 5K with a 100,000 mile warrantee.
Is this the same one except with a new selling price or a different one? For the life of me I can't remember the name. What I do remember is that the car had a year long waiting list...........in China! They couldn't make them fast enough.
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>Might go the way of the YUGO! >>
Definitely not. They build nice cars.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
thanks
<< <i>Definitely not. They build nice cars. >>
Maybe so, but I ....hate.... a car that you have to drive again a half hour after your last trip.
<< <i>
<< <i>Definitely not. They build nice cars. >>
Maybe so, but I ....hate.... a car that you have to drive again a half hour after your last trip. >>
More taste, less filling
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
http://reuters.myway.com/article/20050629/2005-06-29T073807Z_01_N29427574_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-CHINA-RIOT-DC.html
<< <i>It's starting....
http://reuters.myway.com/article/20050629/2005-06-29T073807Z_01_N29427574_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-CHINA-RIOT-DC.html >>
LINK
Isn't going to go anywhere.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
The DrudgeReport
China tells U.S. not to meddle in oil deal
Wed Jun 29 2005 10:06:28 ET
China expressed opposition to interference in a government-controlled oil company's bid for the U.S.-based oil company Unocal, state media said Wednesday.
Foreign Ministry spokesman Liu Jianchao said that China National Offshore Oil Corporation's $18.5 billion offer for Unocal was "normal commercial activity between enterprises."
Liu said "economic cooperation between China and the U.S. serves the interests of both sides and commercial activities should not be interfered in or disturbed by political elements."
There are growing concerns in Washington over the deal as some U.S. officials are uncomfortable with CNOOC, 70 percent owned by the Chinese government, controlling a major player in the U.S. energy sector.
Xinhua reported Wednesday that CNOOC Chief Executive Fu Chengyu is heading to the United States for negotiations and to dispel concerns over the deal.
END
China tells U.S. not to meddle in oil deal
Wed Jun 29 2005 10:06:28 ET
Nobody likes being told what they can and cannot do. The world is changing. It's going to be a very interesting few years ahead of us. I'm looking forward to that white sand beach where I can just kick back and watch.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
By KELLY OLSEN, AP Business Writer
Wed Jun 29, 4:27 AM ET
SEOUL, South Korea - Surging oil prices could curb Asia's economies, with some analysts predicting the fast-growing region — heavily dependent on oil imports — could slip into a recession if prices don't recede.
With oil prices about 50 percent higher than a year ago, the warnings are starting to mount.
South Korea's central bank said higher crude prices could shave 0.7 percentage points off economic growth this year and raise consumer prices. The Philippines has warned of a "heavy toll." Officials in Japan, the world's No. 1 oil importer, and Malaysia are voicing concerns.
"High oil prices are already weighing on growth in Asian economies," Andy Xie, economist at Morgan Stanley in Hong Kong, wrote in a report this week. "If oil prices do not recede, Asia could slide into recession in the short term."
After rising to a record close of $60.54 a barrel on Monday, crude oil prices fell back some, granting the region's importers a reprieve. In Asian trading Wednesday, light, sweet crude for August delivery was down a cent at $58.19 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange, but traders said prices could easily test the $60 mark again.
Asia's heavy reliance on oil imports, mostly from the Middle East, means higher crude prices quickly translate into higher costs for a wide range of companies, from airlines and steelmakers to computer makers and fisheries. Consumers will also have to divert more of their spending to cover higher utility and gasoline bills. The overall effect could seriously restrain economic growth.
Also, Asian oil consumers have had to pay slightly higher prices because there is less competition among suppliers than in other parts of the world. This so-called "Asian premium" can run as high as $1.50 a barrel.
But the region's economic diversity — ranging from industrial behemoths like Japan, South Korea and China to smaller economies like Singapore and Hong Kong and advanced consumer societies like Australia __ means the oil price impact can vary substantially.
Officials in Malaysia, where dozens of electronics companies have factories, are worried that high fuel prices could slow gross domestic product growth to 5-6 percent this year from 7.1 percent last year.
Likewise, growth in South Korea, home to a booming tech sector, could decline from its previous projection of 4 percent this year, the Bank of Korea warned Tuesday.
Philippine President Gloria Macapagal Arroyo said the oil spike threatens "to take a heavy toll on the entire nation."
While those economic projections are far from suggesting a recession, economist Xie warns that the impact of higher Dubai crude, an Asian benchmark, can already be seen in Thailand and South Korea.
Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra on Monday said that " GDP will definitely be affected by the oil price rise."
Export-dependent Singapore and Japan appear to be more concerned about the fallout from a global slowdown triggered by higher energy costs. Singaporean officials predict economic growth of between 3-5 percent this year, down sharply from nearly 8.5 percent in 2004.
"There may be a gradual indirect effect on the Japanese economy," Chief Cabinet Secretary Hiroyuki Hosoda, the top government spokesman, said recently about the oil price hikes. "We are worried there may be a major negative impact on the world economy."
Japan's suffering from past oil crises has forced the nation to become more fuel-efficient, with factories making fuel conservation a priority to lower production costs and consumer electronics manufacturers hyping the energy-saving merits of their air conditioners, refrigerators and washing machines.
And while surging oil prices certainly aren't welcome at a time when Japan is struggling to emerge from a decade-long slump, some automakers speculate that the turn of events could boost interest in their new fuel-efficient cars.
China, however, is cushioned by its state-owned oil companies from most swings in world oil prices. Suppliers often hold prices steady amid fluctuating world markets, taking smaller profits when import costs rise and making it losses with fatter margins when costs fall.
Also, China produces a lot of its own oil, making the impact of shifts in world prices smaller than in such places as South Korea or Japan. Retail fuel prices change so rarely that an increase in diesel prices by the government announced this week was treated as major news in state-controlled media.
In India, where the market is also dominated by state-run oil companies, the government has so far absorbed much of the impact of the price rise, but a 2.5-rupee (5 U.S. cents) increase in gasoline prices per liter this month has provoked protests across the country.
"The impact depends entirely on how much is passed on to consumers. In 1999, when something similar happened, the impact on growth was quite significant," said Abheek Barua, ABN AMRO chief economist in Bombay.
Rob Subbaraman, an economist at Lehman Brothers in Tokyo, and his colleagues lowered their 2005 growth forecast for Asian economies excluding Japan to 6.3 percent from 6.7 percent — but dismissed the idea of a serious slump across Asia.
"We expect a bigger impact from higher prices this year than last year," Subbaraman said. "We are not close to forecasting a recession for the region."
For Australia, the higher prices represent "a speed hump for consumers, and the economy generally, rather than a brick wall," said Craig James, the chief equities economist at CommSec.
"The rising cost of petrol certainly will rob some momentum from the economy," he said.
Higher oil is having a negative effect on some traditional lines of work, like fishing in New Zealand.
In Nelson, a port on the country's South Island 90 miles west of the capital Wellington, soaring oil prices are being blamed for fishermen quitting the industry.
Darren Guard, president of the Port Nelson Fishermen's Association, said that with 40 percent of income spent on diesel, it was becoming unprofitable to fish.
"It's crippling. It's at the stage where boats are being forced to tie up," he told The Nelson Evening Mail. "People have had a gutsful of beating their head against the wall."
___
Associated Press correspondents En-Lai Yeoh in Singapore, Yuri Kageyama in Tokyo, Meraiah Foley in Sydney, Hrvoje Hranjski in Manila, Ray Lilley in Wellington and Pauline Jasudason in Kuala Lumpur, Neelesh Misra in New Delhi and Grant Peck in Bangkok contributed to this report.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Oil is a commodity. I don't see it as a security threat. China will buy the oil one way or another. Naturally Chevron would like to play on security fears rather than up the bid...
Going Up?
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Also, there were some news of BOA buying around 10% of a major chinese bank...
Groucho Marx
A Chinese company bought IBM's PC business. Another is bidding for Maytag.
Bank of Amercia is bucking the trend and spending $3 Billion for a %9 stake in China Construction Bank. BAC is big in the news today with its $35 Billion bid for MBNA the US Credit Card company.
Still it seems the Chinese are looking to buy more than just bonds with their hard currency surplus.
I get this call this morning from a Lady Stock Analysts in Austin Texas. We have been friends for many years, and long ago we had a several hour conversation on the coming U.S.D. fiat problem and the potential for gold.
She is an established day trader and has her own account at E-trade where she plays with several hundred thou of here own money. I have not talked to her in more than two years.
She call this morning all in a panic, and says that last week she is watching all of this money moving out of the NY banks. She is getting lots of rumors on bad derivative trades, and scandals coming down the line from some heavy Wall Street trading firms. For several days at the end of last week she is watching live action on her screens on the floor and it looks like trades are taking place but NO trades are being done. She gets on her hot lines and tries to find out what is happening and all she gets are warnings to get out of the market, and perhaps out of the banks. She panics, closes all her trades at E-trade, as well as her account, and has the money wired. She goes to the several banks she deals with and tells them she wants her CASH. They give her nothing but problems for several days but finally she gets her money. Her inside sources tell her DO NOT pay any attention to the GOLD price movements, but go and buy a bunch!
Anyone else been hearing any of this?
Ha Ha Ha !
Who knows Cluas anything is possible!!
<< <i>Maybe she has gone "looney" in the two years you haven't talked with her. >>
Maybe she's just horney for you?
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
I guess I am the only hard asset guy she knows?
“Maybe she's just horney for you?”
At age 59 I will take all the attention I can get.
This in June 30th:
By Richard Daughty
“In the last week foreigners have suddenly stopped buying our debt through their accounts at the Fed. And the banks have suddenly divested themselves of $74 billion in government debt. In one week! One! And the banks got rid of another $11.5 billion in "other securities", to boot!”
It looks like the Treasury and the Fed convinced Senators Schumer and Graham that their 27% tariff bill on the Chinese was a No No, if want to keep selling entitlement debt to the Chinese. They cancelled the vote on their bill last week.
The Unocal deal will be the next big test. Do we dare say no, and if we say yes what will our creditors want to buy next?
What's caused this? Manipulation. And it has nothing to do with the fundamentals of the economy really. It's just about "trading"
and making money on any good news or any news "spun" to now appear "good."
The FED bumped interest rates up again, the dollar reacted by moving up. But most already knew this would happen. The traders took advantage of the move. Many gold funds were dumped to close out the quarter and the fiscal year with "booked" profits.
Oil weakened slightly over the last few trading days. It has everything to do with trading and "spin" and less to do with what counts: fundamentals. It cannot go on indefinitely. The fundamentals will eventually drive gold and the US dollar index to where they should be in balance. Key commodities are still up strongly for the year as a whole. GDP also came out above the expected number so that was good for some positive spin too.
As long as inflation is understated, the GDP #'s will also overstated.
In another week the short term picture could be entirely different, however it is the long term trend that counts. And the FED want's to ensure we are all only looking at short term trends of which they can affect to some degree. Richard Daughty had an interesting comment in his article this week. I paraphrase: "Wait until the general public finds out that the central bank sales of gold throughout the 1990's was only to keep the gold price down, and currencies up. And that 1/2 to 2/3 of their gold supply is gone." It only makes sense that the gold sales were conducted to depress prices and make sure money on the carry trade. The high flying 1990's and strong US dollar were in part brought to you by central bank gold sales. If the ammo is indeed gone, what next? Notice they aren't selling much of any gold these days. Now the manipulation is done with policial rhetoric and paper contracts on the comex, not with physical gold. There is no more game once these 2 methods lose their punch.
27 Reasons why gold will rise in value - Jim Willie
roadrunner
If your assertion about gold is correct, over the past 10 - 20 years we:
(1) Persuaded the Japanese to lend us cheap money to buy high quality goods,
(2) Persuaded the oil producing countries to sell us cheap oil, and
(3) Persuaded the Europeans to sell gold to support our currency.
We had the whole world working for us!
Call me naive, but I've generally found that past preformance is often an indicator of the silver bullion market moves.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
roadrunner
<< <i>Ha Ha Ha
It looks like the Treasury and the Fed convinced Senators Schumer and Graham that their 27% tariff bill on the Chinese was a No No, if want to keep selling entitlement debt to the Chinese. They cancelled the vote on their bill last week.
The Unocal deal will be the next big test. Do we dare say no, and if we say yes what will our creditors want to buy next? >>
I think the Chinese are sitting on 680 Billion Dollars. You bet this Unocal offer is a big deal and the fact that certain Chinese questioned whether or not the US Dollar is worth the paper it's printed on the other day is more of a bow shot than anything else in my opinion.
If they were to dump a few bucks on the market, the bow shot would certainly be felt everywhere.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
China tells U.S. Congress to back off
Tensions flare over Chinese firm’s bid for Unocal
By Peter S. Goodman
Updated: 11:59 p.m. ET July 4, 2005
SHANGHAI, July 4 - The Chinese government on Monday sharply criticized the United States for threatening to erect barriers aimed at preventing the attempted takeover of the American oil company Unocal Corp. by one of China's three largest energy firms, CNOOC Ltd.
Four days after the House of Representatives overwhelmingly approved a resolution urging the Bush administration to block the proposed transaction as a threat to national security, China's Foreign Ministry excoriated Congress for injecting politics into what it characterized as a standard business matter.
"We demand that the U.S. Congress correct its mistaken ways of politicizing economic and trade issues and stop interfering in the normal commercial exchanges between enterprises of the two countries," the Foreign Ministry said in a written statement. "CNOOC's bid to take over the U.S. Unocal company is a normal commercial activity between enterprises and should not fall victim to political interference. The development of economic and trade cooperation between China and the United States conforms to the interests of both sides."
SHANGHAI, July 4 - The Chinese government on Monday sharply criticized the United States for threatening to erect barriers aimed at preventing the attempted takeover of the American oil company Unocal Corp. by one of China's three largest energy firms, CNOOC Ltd.
Am I the only one who figures that these guys REALLY want this company and might sweeten the offer?
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Next door to my business is a UNION 76 GAS Station(Unocal franchise)
It is owned by an Indian family. I mentioned that Unocal was a takeover target and he might end up answering to a Chinese owner--he gave me the look of.."I am about to get a new next door neighbor" if that happens.
Just want to cross-post something here also, since this thread is probably more likely to be read than the original one:
<< Yeah, it's amazing. Silver supposedly is all gone, above ground reserves all mined and sold...a crazy situation of more being sold than exists, secret banks hoarding silver in south america, big chance to make a lot of money...if you listen to the hype. There are so many people out there holding $8 silver that are just begging for some of that to be true. If you go to kitco, you can buy all the 1000 oz lots of silver you want at $7.14 an oz, pretty darn rare indeed. Silver is so hyped, so manipulated, and so available that it is good sport to watch every body yell when it goes up 10 cents and panic when it drops the same amount. >>
Let's say you own a coin dealership. You purchase five 1893-S PCGS XF45 Morgan dollars. You sell fifty 1893-S XF45 Morgan dollars on eBay--forty-five more than you actually own. What's going to happen when the fifty buyers come knocking on your door, demanding delivery of their purchase?
Let's say you own a major bank. You purchase 100,000 ounces of silver. You sell 1,000,000 ounces of silver, total, to ten customers (each customer purchases 100,000 ounces of silver). What's going to happen when those ten buyers come knocking on your door, demanding delivery of your purchase? SIMPLE, you, say. Just buy 900,000 ounces on COMEX, then request a delivery date. Only problem is the person you bought that silver from actually only owns 900,000 ounces of silver, but has sold 9,000,000 ounces to various customers. He cannot fill your order and regrets to inform you that he is declaring bankruptcy (which means you will ultimately recover about 10% of your money, less attorney's fees, since his assets--1,000,000 ounces of silver--can only cover 10% of his obligations). Now that you've lost the purchase price of the 900,000 ounces of silver, and still don't have enough silver to cover YOUR OWN obligations. What do you do?
One of the greatest financial crimes of our time is that the federal government has allowed the COMEX Ponzi scheme to go unchecked.
I think the Chinese are sitting on 680 Billion Dollars. You bet this Unocal offer is a big deal and the fact that certain Chinese questioned whether or not the US Dollar is worth the paper it's printed on the other day is more of a bow shot than anything else in my opinion.
If they were to dump a few bucks on the market, the bow shot would certainly be felt everywhere.
>>
One other nation that believed the U.S. to be economically and militarily impotent comes to mind--Japan, in 1941.
Copper inventories remaining near three-decade lows is nothing new, but recent strikes in Arizona and in Chile are, and we are hearing that investors who were shorting copper stocks last week in anticipation of weaker copper prices are being forced to cover equity positions in PD, PCU, BHP, and FCX on strike concerns within the sector and further floods at India's Hindalco Industries mine. (According to the NYMEX, copper supplies were down 28 short tons at 15,269 short tons as of late Friday.)
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i><<
I think the Chinese are sitting on 680 Billion Dollars. You bet this Unocal offer is a big deal and the fact that certain Chinese questioned whether or not the US Dollar is worth the paper it's printed on the other day is more of a bow shot than anything else in my opinion.
If they were to dump a few bucks on the market, the bow shot would certainly be felt everywhere.
>>
One other nation that believed the U.S. to be economically and militarily impotent comes to mind--Japan, in 1941. >>
Did I use the word impotent? Are you starting something with me? Why don't you have a name in which to reply to?
If not then are you suggesting that the 680 billion that the Chinese are sitting on is meaningless?
What is it you are suggesting?
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
By EDITH BALAZS
Associated Press Writer
Posted July 7 2005, 8:44 AM EDT
BUDAPEST, HUNGARY -- Crude oil prices briefly surpassed $62 a barrel Thursday for the first time before making a sharp reversal, amid heightened market uncertainty following a string of fatal explosions in the British capital.
Nearly simultaneous blasts rocked several London subway stations and ripped apart a double-decker bus during the morning rush hour, police said, causing at least two deaths and reportedly injuring more than 90 people.
Light, sweet crude for August delivery on the New York Mercantile Exchange fell $1.48 to $59.80 a barrel in electronic trading by afternoon in Europe. It had earlier hit a new high of $62.10 a barrel Thursday, a day after closing at a record settlement price of $61.28 a barrel on the Nymex, where oil has been traded since 1983.
Heating oil and unleaded gas both fell more than 3 cents to $1.7643 a gallon and $1.7503, respectively.
At London's International Petroleum Exchange, August Brent futures slumped $1.08 to $58.77 a barrel.
"The market is very concerned at the moment, but it's too early to draw any conclusions as we are in the middle of events and no one seems to have a clear idea of what exactly is going on," said Frederic Lasserre, head of commodities research with Paris-based SG Securities.
"The instant market reaction (to events in London), was the same as in the case of the 9/11 attacks, which had a huge impact of consumers' psychology and drove down demand," Lasserre said.
The events in London more than offset the bullish reaction to hurricane-related worries from the Gulf of Mexico, with crude prices dropping as much $2.50 in five minutes, Lasserre said.
He said concerns over the tight supply-demand balance would soon again be the major focus of the markets.
Worries over possible glitches in the U.S. supply network had sent crude prices to record highs as storms approached the Gulf of Mexico. On Wednesday, storm-related power outages disrupted some oil production and refining operations in the Gulf of Mexico.
The refinery snags caused by Tropical Storm Cindy were minor and temporary, but with petroleum producers preparing for Hurricane Dennis, the flow of oil from the region was reduced by almost 200,000 barrels per day.
Petroleum producers evacuated 85 production platforms and 11 drilling rigs, according to the Minerals Management Service, which said 190,000 barrels per day of oil had been shut-in as a result. That is less than 1 percent of daily demand in the United States.
Traders fear a repeat of last year's Hurricane Ivan, which damaged oil platforms in the Gulf of Mexico and caused others to shut down for months.
Almost 44 million barrels of oil production was lost between September 2004 and February 2005, while natural gas output declined over the same period by 172 billion cubic feet.
Traders said the rally exemplified the energy market's skittishness about any lost output at a time when the global supply cushion is thin.
Crude oil futures are about 60 percent above year ago levels, though still below the inflation-adjusted high above $90 a barrel reached in 1980.
* __
Associated Press Writer Gillian Wong in Singapore contributed to this report
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Did I use the word impotent? Are you starting something with me? Why don't you have a name in which to reply to?
If not then are you suggesting that the 680 billion that the Chinese are sitting on is meaningless?
What is it you are suggesting?
>>
I'm suggesting that if the Chinese think they can threaten to ruin our economy if we don't let them have their way, they are in for a major surprise. My name is David.
do you not see the irony though? the chinese have come to realize the US govt is a sham.
they earned those dollars honestly and now we change the rules on them?
they have a right to use those dollars any darn way they please. all 860 billion
at once if they feel like it.
so in summary, it appears the chinese will ruin our economy if they spend their dollars. great. just fricking great.
buy gold. buy property. buy rare art. buy assets and get rid of those lousy dollars
before you are the last one holding them.
<< <i><<
Did I use the word impotent? Are you starting something with me? Why don't you have a name in which to reply to?
If not then are you suggesting that the 680 billion that the Chinese are sitting on is meaningless?
What is it you are suggesting?
>>
I'm suggesting that if the Chinese think they can threaten to ruin our economy if we don't let them have their way, they are in for a major surprise. My name is David. >>
David, the Chinese aren't threatening anyone.
It's not the Chinese taking shots at the economy here it's the government here in tandem with the ignorance which has become almost epidemic.
We are our own worst enemies.
Trust me, you have to go there to see with your own eyes what's happening.
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
so in summary, it appears the chinese will ruin our economy if they spend their dollars. great. just fricking great.
buy gold. buy property. buy rare art. buy assets and get rid of those lousy dollars
before you are the last one holding them.
>>
Do you honestly think the world's #1 military power will stand idly by and let the Chinese ruin our economy? Come on people, get real.
<<
do you not see the irony though? the chinese have come to realize the US govt is a sham.
they earned those dollars honestly and now we change the rules on them?
>>
What do you mean by change the rules? I think mrearlygold was implying that the Chinese could use all their dollars as a bargaining position, tantamount to saying "Stand in our way and we'll ruin your economy." Nobody is saying that they can't spend their money, but if they DUMP all the money at once in order to show us they can, they'll have issues
<< <i>'m suggesting that if the Chinese think they can threaten to ruin our economy if we don't let them have their way, they are in for a major surprise.
do you not see the irony though? the chinese have come to realize the US govt is a sham.
they earned those dollars honestly and now we change the rules on them?
they have a right to use those dollars any darn way they please. all 860 billion
at once if they feel like it.
so in summary, it appears the chinese will ruin our economy if they spend their dollars. great. just fricking great.
buy gold. buy property. buy rare art. buy assets and get rid of those lousy dollars
before you are the last one holding them. >>
Thats' a great post.
Really
Rgrds
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
David, the Chinese aren't threatening anyone.
>>
That's how I read your previous post:
<<
I think the Chinese are sitting on 680 Billion Dollars. You bet this Unocal offer is a big deal and the fact that certain Chinese questioned whether or not the US Dollar is worth the paper it's printed on the other day is more of a bow shot than anything else in my opinion.
>>
My apologies if that is not what you meant. I agree that we are in trouble. Our nation's policies change every 4-8 years, and any good legislation can be overturned just like that. Politicians have no foresight. That, more than anything, may be our downfall. Our nation used to be run responsibly, but now politicians do whatever they think might get them a few votes, no matter what impact it has on our nation as a whole.
Some in this thread see doom and gloom around the corner. I don't see any dramatic crashes, just a slow loss in our world power.
You have to stop thinking that a military complex is going to control the world. It's not and it's getting to the point where we are being laughed at with people around the world saying "is that what's left of America? A military? What happened to Freedom, Integrity, and a people we could look UP to?"
We're laughed at in lots of places and "pitied" in others. It's been an amazing transformation in just the last couple of decades. And a sad one at that.
I'll reply to your quotes in bold here
Politicians have no foresight. That, more than anything, may be our downfall. Our nation used to be run responsibly, but now politicians do whatever they think might get them a few votes, no matter what impact it has on our nation as a whole.
Correct.
Politicians are lowlifes who don't have any loyalty to anyone but their own bottom line which includes a huge amount of money, and power.
Why do you think a president spends 100 million dollars for a 250 grand a year job?
The greatest scam they do is when people say "what a dumb thing that is". You think there're dumb? They're not dumb. We are. They have the power to send your kids to fight a war in a place where we don't belong, get rich doing so and then scam people into thinking "this is an honorable thing to do......)
B/S. They're good at what they do. Lie, cheat, steal and kill.
Don't be angry with another country who frankly is making some money and now wants to invest it. What would you say if they DID NOT want to invest that money here? Think about it.
So now they want to invest it and they're told NO?
What would you do?
End of sermon.
Try this: THINK FREE
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Our nation used to be run responsibly,
1990's? Maybe in 1995 when the gov't was shut down for 2 weeks.
1980's? Outspent the Russians.
1970's? Liberal Democrats called the shots.
1960's? Lyndon Baines "There's no social program we can't afford" Johnson
1950's? Republicans balanced budget cratered the economy.
How far back we have to go?
<< <i>Our nation used to be run responsibly,
1990's? Maybe in 1995 when the gov't was shut down for 2 weeks.
1980's? Outspent the Russians.
1970's? Liberal Democrats called the shots.
1960's? Lyndon Baines "There's no social program we can't afford" Johnson
1950's? Republicans balanced budget cratered the economy.
How far back we have to go? >>
1930's confiscation of gold and other property
1940's various socialist programs still bleeding us dry
Keep going!
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870