Cnitas, Many here do not understand insurance and if they want to learn it is good! If they want to go back to gold and silver that is fine to...I just wanted people to know what I had found and some have heard me!
<< <i>The insurance products I looked at were great for retirement.
Just not *my* retirement.
Your results will vary. >>
Exactly. I've yet to meet an insurance salesman who didn't answer "insurance" or "annuity" to any question I asked. IMO, the best approach is to load up on inexpensive term life insurance to protect my family, and then invest my money in something that's truly an investment. Of course, each of us has to decide for himself what that is.
At this time all I want to do is preserve, I have tried all the others, and at this time preservation is the most important thing on my mind.
I just want to know that all that I have worked for has not disappeared vanished into thin air...I know diversification is the way to go and I have tried that...also down across the board...the only thing to do In this market is to short it!
<< <i>Exactly. I've yet to meet an insurance salesman who didn't answer "insurance" or "annuity" to any question I asked. >>
True, but how many times does a Toyota salesman recommend that you go over and buy a Ford? When choosing a fund for your IRA, your stock salesman...err, broker, will attempt to sell you what makes him the largest commission. This is not surprising.
Just like gold, silver, stock, bonds, and real estate, insurance has its uses and some circumstances, a place in an overall portfolio. It is not a 'silver bullet', or some other GRQ path to vast fortune and wealth.
You need to research , understand your investment options, and choose wisely for your own personal situation.
Mark Piersall Random Collector www.marksmedals.com
<< <i>Exactly. I've yet to meet an insurance salesman who didn't answer "insurance" or "annuity" to any question I asked. >>
True, but how many times does a Toyota salesman recommend that you go over and buy a Ford? When choosing a fund for your IRA, your stock salesman...err, broker, will attempt to sell you what makes him the largest commission. This is not surprising.
Just like gold, silver, stock, bonds, and real estate, insurance has its uses and some circumstances, a place in an overall portfolio. It is not a 'silver bullet', or some other GRQ path to vast fortune and wealth.
You need to research , understand your investment options, and choose wisely for your own personal situation. >>
When it comes time to put food on the table, is the salesman going to put it on yours or his?
RoadRunner, they might have been derivatives but the Insurance Companies will wind up with the properties! So they have lost nothing! It is the Banks and the Investors who have lost not the insurance company!
If the banks have enough assets then they will not go out of business the insurance companies will own their assest but they will remain in business...
What assets?
You're assuming there are assets other than "paper pay offs" in all these transactions which is certainly not the case. In fact I'd wager that most financial transactions on the derivatives side are just bets on which way a particular indicator goes. There are no true assets at all. Just a paper contract on who pays whom and how much and when. The most common wager is on interest rates. The loser is supposed to pay off the winner with cash if the bet goes bad. More than likely the loser has far more debt than assets if he's not paying up. That leaves a bankruptcy judge to determine which creditors get what. I would think that risky otc derivatives bets due to insurance companies would not be high on the list of being paid back. Let's face it, just like the banks, mortgage companies, auto and credit card finance companies, big insurance companies will have their day in the bright derivatives sun.
Considering that the sum of all derivatives in the world is around $1.1 QUADRILLION, it's clear that the financial assets of corporations and municipalities are a fraction of that amount. Hence there is a huge shortage of assets vs. paper wagers. Therein lies the problem.
Well Roadrunner, I hear what you are saying, but I still like the fact that 10 insurance companies are backing my policy instead of one, which allows for failure....Yes I agree some Insurance companies will fail, but all will not! Insurance is still the place I want to be to preserve my assets, better than the bank and better than most if not all instruments... as I have found no other place...I wish things were different and the world was more perfect than it is! If it were not for the greedy we would not even be having this conversation....things are just out of control and allowed to be for far to long!
dlimb2, I'm glad you are happy, with your annuity and I really don't want to derail this thread with insurance discussions. ING is a good company, but if you think your WORST rate of return is 9% annualized, you are not fully understanding the product.
BTW interesting to see the dollar and banks rally today, AFTER the Merril news. Is it just a counter trend rally with gold and oil dropping?, or is it possible that the financials actually put in a botton on July 17? I wouldn't bet a lot either way, at this juncture...but it is interesting. The last time we had 1000 bank failures(along with all the hand ringing and fear), was in in 1990, when the banks plummeted sharply and quickly(@70% within one year), only to rebound the next 12 months and rise three fold from the bottom in the next 2 years and 9 fold in the next 8. Of course that was then and no one knows what will happen now and in the future. But it is at least a small possibility, that the future is NOT all doom with a heaping portion of gloom.
“Gold Fields Mineral Services is one of the world's top consultancies on precious metals. In their latest survey of worldwide gold demand, they report that Vietnam has displaced India (a country with 10 times the population) as the world's largest gold consuming nation in the first quarter of 2008.”
This is very interesting, not the fact that Vietnamese want gold because there money in worthless, but that they could surpass India in short order.
All these things we have discussed the last few weeks I have done, checked banks, moved money to different banks etc., but still what will we do if the U.S. hits 15 to 25% inflation in the next few years. Seems impossible but just in the last two weeks the government has agreed to print up to a trillion dollars in new paper for Freddie, Fannie, and 400 thousand under water homeowners.
Several years ago in this thread I told a story about a wholesale gold dealer in Texas who told me, “there will come a time in the next ten years that an average person will not be able to buy an ounce of gold, not on ebay, or from a dealer”
I suppose any paper instrument denominated in dollars becomes worthless if no wants the dollars?
I am not sure I would want any major money in an annuity, a bond, note etc. denominated in DONG’S!
Here is a chart of the dollar over the last 7 years. Fugly, to say the least. But since hitting a bottom on the BSC bailout, the dollar has held quite well. In recent weeks there has been a lot of bad news that probably should have dropped the dollar to lower lows--ie FRE and FNM bailouts, but that news hasnt hurt the dollar. Now we have a dollar that is approaching that downtrend line and 200 DMA, which it hasnt been above in 16 months. When trading you must identify risks. The risk of being long the dollar is less than 3 points as one would sell on a break below the recent lows. The risk in being short is that a break of the dountrend and 200dma, would most likely lead to a test of the major breakdown point near 80, or about 7 points. A 1/3 retracement of the downmove would take the dollar to about 87. Clearly the greatest risk is being short the dollar, rather than being long. Wait for confirmation.
Considering that that dollar is the most manipulated item by the FED and PPT, I would not lend a lot of creedence for explanations of shorter term trends. Lots of bad news has to countered constantly with a quick rise in the dollar, if even for a day. But the cost of each plug has a price (ie selling off gold stocks for example). The long term trend is all the way to the basement at approx 0.5 on the USDX. That's 30% lower from today's value. Other short runs back to 0.75 or even 0.8 could occur. But the odds favor heading to under 0.70 or even to 0.65 within the year. The FED and PPT goal is to get to 0.5 under control. They know they have to get there before the recovery starts. It's just a matter of how they can let the air out slowly w/o causing stampedes along the way. So far they've done an admirable job such that J6P is not even aware it has devalued 40% over the past 7 years. The BSC manipulation was their crowning achievement to date. But it won't last as the sheeple slowly figure it out. How could the first (of many) of a major bank/brokerage failure really be considered a turning point upwards? I guess only in the mind of J6P and in the dreams of the FED/Treasury.
You think for one minuite if gold and silver were the only valuable commodity the Government would let you keep it! Come on think again...it would be 1933 all over again.
RoadRunner, you said that the derivatives could disappear right? Could the solution be in those doing the owing be bought out by the ones they owe there fore cancelling all the derivatives? If not, what would be the solution...do you have any ideas? We know things are not going to change until something happens, are there solutions?
Is there anyway that those who win the bets would forgive the losers? Is this possible, it seems like it would be the most simple thing to do...it is all just paper anyway! And to boot betting on Interest Rates!
AIG has company, and probably lots of it. The insurance companies are probably dragging their feet when it comes to marking derivatives to market rather than model. Their losses will start showing up just like all the other financial companies.
No doubt there will be some consolidation of derivatives debt as mergers occur down the road. You can bet that JPM or other larger banks will swallow up other banks to reduce their risk/leverage. It's sort of similar to a company with lots of revenue looking to buy a functioning company with lots of debt to reduce the tax revenues. But the winner absolving the loser of the debt really doesn't accomplish much. Either way, the loser cannot pay. So a company that was carrying a large asset on its books now has to write some or all of it down as a loss. This was supposedly not expected. And in any case is kept from shareholders or investors until it actually happens. Nothing can make this any prettier. It's a loss for both companies and how it looks on the books depends on the type of accounting that is done (GAAP or Govt.).
The govt confiscated very little gold in the 1930's. What FDR really wanted to do was to raise gold's value...in essence giving the dollar an overnight 60% haircut.
"But it is at least a small possibility, that the future is NOT all doom with a heaping portion of gloom."
Well, every now and then you have to shut down for maintenance and clean out the pipes. I would not count the USD out at all.
I may have this wrong but it looks like we just let the foreign and US banks and brokerages finance the greatest realestate rip off in the history of man kind. All paid for (actually NOT paid for) by the US consumee. So, if the banks/brokerages lost their money and the US consumee lost their money...who got the money? Haven't heard anyone say who got the money, what happened to it; or was it an illusion in the first place, a kind of financial magic act?
The money was there and may still be there. But you can bet that the banks, brokerage, mortgage companies, lenders, appraisers, builders, etc who made all that money got some nice bonuses over the years and squirreled a lot of that money away by buying "things." Billions were being made by these corporations by writing Trillions in mortgages. That money was very real. The TRILLIONS in losses coming from $62 TRILL in the credit default swaps market is also very real. Mortgage problems will pale in comparison.
Thats what I figure too, the house needs a cleaning and to start fresh...well you know! The dollar really fail...no, but it won't be pleasant at the time....they will shock the system at some point though...there is no way out of it...Maybe the SEC will make some new rules along the way, which will be figured out evenually and screwed with again....isn't it always!
All this building craz had a good ten year run, from the late 90's...so the mess is tremendous...credit cards on top of morgages....they thought there was no end! I guess many will be bulldozed as they were back in Texas in the 80's.
I guess the Phrase Build and they will come...needs to meet it's death! Never was a good line, it never worked out!
i should'nt say this as i'm not sure but here goes we had a pump and buy of our 401 k at work buy buy buy their thoughts the short selling is over last week because short selling had their limits raised not the banks pulling their long's on oil just the limits on short selling being raised so my thoughts are why would'nt or could'nt they be shorted over seas china, japan where every i just listened i'm glad i read this board i was amazed at the sales pitch
Wayne, all I know is something changed the direction of oil...it started to fall...and that something was that America and the world started to drive less driving the price of oil down...because of less demand for oil.
When a commodity or a stock is falling, there is usually a good reason for it...and when it starts to fall people will short it to ride it down and there is a point where the person shorting will have to turn around and buy it back which will make the price rise again...Oil is on shaky ground, come winter time I think things may change again and not in our favor as heating cost and electricity will rise because we all have to stay warm.
Another thing about oil...it is Hurricane season here and if anything such as oil rigs, oil refineries or anything happens in the middle east to disturb the flow of oil, the price of oil will shoot up!
So right now while oil is on the way down, they are saying it is a good time to buy because they know it will be going back up.
One thing that we have not discussed much is what happens to the state and county revenues when all the corporations take their derivative losses and pay no taxes for 10 years, due to write offs.
Lets see, since a great majority of Americans have become tax exempt, and the burdens of socialism has been put of the “Wealthy”, and business, where does the money come from if NO one pays?
I guess the Feds will also have to bail out the States?
"Paterson Warns of Economic Crisis
The new governor of New York avoided any mention of new taxes, instead arguing forcefully for austerity.
“Revenues are dropping dramatically,” the governor added. At the start of May, the state budget office projected a cumulative deficit of $21.5 billion over the next three years. Now, just two months later, that estimate has risen to $26.2 billion — “a staggering 22 percent increase in less than 90 days.”
Mr. Paterson offered another example of the rapid deterioration in the state’s finances. In June 2007, he said, the 16 banks that pay the most on their business profits remitted $173 million to the state treasury. “This June, just a month ago, they sent us $5 million — a 97 percent decrease,” he said."
Yeah, it is no surprise about MET LIFE...I had my homeowners insurance and also my Car insurance with them up until last month when my policies came due...Reason I left is because their pricing is twice as high as anyone else's...they want to stay competitive then they are going to have to drop their prices...at one time I had all my investments with them also, I pulled them two years ago. I started calling around on pricing of policies and found they were way to high as I am sure many people did....Talked to my ex Met Agent who had my investments, he keeps calling and wants my business back, things do not look good with them right now...they want your business but they don't want to help you make the right decisions I say to hell with that...told him! Though I never lost money with them, I never really made any with them either...just maintained...so this is one of their reasons for failing! I put some money into an Annuity that just kept growing around other investments...another thing about Met Life is they have hidden cost that they don't show you and wont tell you about...but if you keep track of your accounts you can see what they are doing, you don't fool the people very long!
Annuities is a Insurance policy...conditions are set as far as promised % go....if they do not meet your % in the policy then there is a breach of policy and that goes against the Laws of the Insurance world not the Financial world...Met Life could be in trouble with that alone under the insurance laws....governed by two separate entities...one having nothing to do with the other. With their investment products they do not all fall under the Insurance Laws but the Laws of the Financial world, so you have to be careful as to what products you invest in, whether it is an Insurance company or a Brokerage firm.
If you feel you have made a mistake in buying any type of Insurance Policy...You have a 30 peak view in which you can cancel the policy at no cost or obligation...so you can cancel at anytime during those 30 days if you feel you have made a mistake...
Crash Course by Chris Martenson is worth a watch. There are 15 of 20 sections already completed with 5 more pending. The longest section is less than 15 minutes. Watch at your leisure. Great primer for those not familiar with how the US economy works. Could be an eye opener for some.
So we are going to be security to the world! Wonder how much Israel is going to pay us to secure their nation? 9000 jobs created just for this purpose.
GoldSaint, it will be just like when someone loses lots on the market, they are allowed $3K per year on write offs...I do not know about Corporate, I would imagine it would be similar except in a larger amount! They would still have to pay on profits just minus the loses...Someone needs to get rid of the double books if you ask me!
One thing that we have not discussed much is what happens to the state and county revenues when all the corporations take their derivative losses and pay no taxes for 10 years, due to write offs.
A salient point, GS. In addition, real estate tax revenues will be heading down, which means that real estate TAX RATES will have to go up. Correct?
In other words, the same thing applies to responsible home owners that applied to responsible home loan borrowers - if you pay your bills responsibly, you will also be expected to foot the bills for everyone else who can't or won't work for a living.
I don't have a problem with providing for the truly unfortunate, but I do have a big problem with subsidizing bankers, unqualified borrowers, Fannie Mae executives, and political careers of those who want to tax us more to buy the votes of illiterates who shouldn't be voting, period.
The place is so corrupt, and yet - I'm not sure, but I still think that the U.S.A. is mankind's last, best hope. It all lies with our founding documents and the principles in the founding of our country, which have all but been ignored. It's never too late, but it's getting bad, on many fronts.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
I think the White House has seen to many Hollywood movies! I do not understand why they want to promote more violence...let Countries defend themselves and let us get on with our lives. Now you see what alcohol and drugs does to the brain!
How many people are gonna want to have kids knowing their fate!
What is that going to do about the tax situation! Less people ......less taxes!
So, oil rises, lots of diplomatic activites about the high price of oil, people have to curtail pleasure driving and then there is a big push for drilling in ANWR, Calif. and Fla. coasts because of the pain. You have to wonder if this is just a response to high oil prices/foreign energy dependence or it was a play to let US oil get drilling permits in protected areas...but of course, it's for national security and to ease the pain. Nice play, if that is what it was.
Morgtages went to the dump and mostly caught up the people that shouldn't have been there in the first place (along with some small time players) but they were encouraged by lenders/brokers to do the deal so they did and it was easy, everybody qualified and now they carry around a bad financial history and their bank accounts are trashed. The big banks got protection, the fed bailed them out and actually the biggest ones didn't come out too badly so it makes you wonder, was the fix in from the beginning? Who got the money, anybody know who got the money? Well played though if that is what it was.
401's trapped a large part of US income in employeer sponsored plans well out of the reach of the contributors unless they take a substantial hickey, even if they could get to it. As the market slowly drops to eat up about 15% of all deposits, you have to wonder what the very well paid fund managers are doing that they cant pick good conservative, dividend producing stocks for their instruments and participants. So, banks are going bad and you put your clients funds in oil, so housing goes down and you put your clients in GE, so airlines tank and you put your clients in robotics...now just what is so darn hard about that? Meanwhile, the fund managers get paid just fine. Meanwhile, retirement plans get delayed for a year or two, people continue paying into SS for a little longer, people paying mature worker taxes into the system and they are out there dangling in the wind while their portfolios are under water. Wonder if anyone feels like they are being played?
Just like curtailing driving, you end up paying a bunch less fed and state fuel tax so now the fed and states are moaning and groaning about not being able to fix the roads and bridges. Look at it like this...So they put a fuel tax on gasoline, kind of a fix your roads and bridges as you go plan. That way, the money doesn't come out of the general fund in fact, if there is any excess income from the fuel tax, it can go into the general fund. Since we pay no specific tax that pays for indigent services such as court related costs, hospitilization, social services, etc. so that comes out of the general fund (here it comes mostly from a state sales tax). Consequently the states/fed are in the press complaining about not having any money to fix the roads and bridges any more because people aren't driving and using enough gas but there is enough money to pay all the indigent services. So now there is a built in reason for bad bridges and roads instead of reaching into the general fund to fix them...nice play. I'm driving less and enjoying it more and all the indigents are getting their needs taken care of, and I'm paying much less fuel tax...it's all good. Good play!
There are certainly more examples and I'm not one for conspiracy theories but I sure do feel like I'm being played. The only way to play back is to buy PM and hold cash. One thing for sure, if you just sit on the couch and think everything is normal...you're burnt toast on a pointy stick. Use cash and trash the credit card companies, drive less and trash the tax machine, contribute to 501 c-3's and lower your fed tax, there's tons of things that you can do...so get out there and PLAY!
On days like these, when the price of Gold drops significantly, I think of Gold as a beach ball that someone (The Central Banks) is trying to push and hold under water. Eventually that beach ball is going to explode upwards, out of the water and high into the sky.
To extend this analogy a little further, that beach ball will eventually fall back into the water, but by that time (Gold=Dow), I'll be out of my Gold position.
"Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
<< <i>Ever get the feeling that you are getting played?
There are certainly more examples and I'm not one for conspiracy theories but I sure do feel like I'm being played. The only way to play back is to buy PM and hold cash. One thing for sure, if you just sit on the couch and think everything is normal...you're burnt toast on a pointy stick. Use cash and trash the credit card companies, drive less and trash the tax machine, contribute to 501 c-3's and lower your fed tax, there's tons of things that you can do...so get out there and PLAY! >>
with market influences and options (choices and methods for obtaining and of couse playing with the paper PM's) greater than they were a few decades ago, i am wondering if we will see the prices we should see with PM. i would think not, but there does seem to be something going on that is obviously not transparent and nothing will be done about it
with market influences and options (choices and methods for obtaining and of couse playing with the paper PM's) greater than they were a few decades ago, i am wondering if we will see the prices we should see with PM. i would think not, but there does seem to be something going on that is obviously not transparent and nothing will be done about it
57loaded, I would agree with you, except for the fact that the rest of the world is now on the same ride that we are taking - there will be fewer and fewer suckers available to pawn off U.S. Dollars in light of the policies that our government and bankers like to pursue.
I believe that the jig is pretty much up, and that PMs *might* be helpful, but I'm not even entirely sure about that. There's very little integrity at the higher levels in government, corporations, politics and the media - in my opinion.
The media isn't any help at all, and I'm not really sure why they've opted for the "dumbing down" of their clientele. I just bought some more silver today. That expresses my opinion at this point.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
I'm not sure that nothing will be done about it. For the consumees, all they have to do is play back. Individuals must choke the crap out of the machine that is trying to grind us into submission. We have to fight socialism by making them spend our tax money on infrastructure...no transportation, no infrastructure, no tax income and the machine fails and the system crumbles and no body gets paid. Infrastructure first, "programs" second. The public sector must keep the infrastructure up or the whole machine fails. If the money is not there for "programs" and socialism then they won't have the money to pay for it. Believe me, they (our elected representatives) will think it's better to have a safe public water supply or bridges across rivers so that people can get to work than it is to have some new "programs" but as long as there is tax income to support those "programs" then they will continue to expand because that expands the voting base for program minded people. It is only by reducing our individual tax load that we can influence the machine. The property tax decreases and fuel tax decreases that will be folded into the '09 public budgets soon should begin to give us some indication of the effect of tax income and we might even begin to see a curtailment of some of these social programs. They might counter with proposing to raise taxes...huge public outcry to follow and anyone that proposes that will simply not be elected so it's a kind of nice position for voters to be in right now, for a change. So, when you hear some elected person or some candidate talking up programs, think about infrastructure and what you can do about it.
The only way to do something about it is for individuals to stop paying into the machine. Little things like don't take the toll way (taxorama), buy PM, pay with cash (no credit card transaction fees either way)...just do it, lower your tax expenses at every opportunity, don't smoke cigarettes (social tax bunny). It's your money and if you keep giving it to your representatives, they will surely spend it for you; they certainly will not be spending it on you. There are probably 40 or 50 million people paying into the system out of the 350 million people that we know about that are living in the US. As long as everybody keeps paying like everything is beautiful then the machine just keeps growing and grinding. If people will just stop it then something will have to change and I'm sure a functional city sewer plant is much more important than a new "program".
Sorry for all the diatribe today, but it seems that now, in this soon to be tax poor environment, is our chance to have an effect and it's good to discuss this. The sooner we start, the sooner we can see what the impact will be.
Cintra Concessions de Infraestructuras de Transporte, S.A. of Spain plans to recover through tolls an investment that is estimated to exceed $180 billion for the full 50-year build-out of the TTC 4,000-mile network.
TTC stands for Trans-Texas Corridor, a 1/4 mile wide right of way heading from Mehico northward.
fishcooker, who's brain storm was that! I know who but would like to hear it.
Rumor has it here that our Governor is also thinking of selling all our toll roads as he has spent the state broke!
A ticket on these toll roads is $80 a pop/toll! If you can not get over to the booth (because you do not have an I pass) , because of Road Construction or traffic is so backed up...tuff! Boy do the cameras take good pictures of your plate and right hand side!
A Trillion here and a Trillion there and soon you are talking about real money?
By DAVID M. HERSZENHORN Published: July 31, 2008 WASHINGTON — President Bush signed into law on Wednesday a huge package of housing legislation Partly to accommodate the rescue plan for the mortgage companies, the bill raises the national debt ceiling to $10.6 trillion, an increase of $800 billion. The bill also creates significant liabilities and risks for taxpayers, that are virtually impossible to calculate.
Yes Sir, Stagflation here we come. We all best keep our liquid assets short-term cause interest rates are going UP!
I bought some I bonds this week, but funny thing, only individuals can now buy these and one can only buy a maximum of $5,000 dollars worth per year. Last year the limit was $30,000. A couple can buy $10,000 as long as they put the bonds into separate names. For those not familiar with these they are the inflation adjusted bonds. The government will continue to lie about the CPI but these pay better than C.D.’S or other treasuries.
July 31 (Bloomberg) -- Inflation in Europe accelerated to the fastest pace in more than 16 years in July, restricting the European Central Bank's room to bolster the economy even as unemployment starts to increase.
The inflation rate for the 15-nation euro region rose to 4.1 percent from 4 percent in June, the European Union statistics office in Luxembourg said today. The rate, the highest since April 1992, matched the median estimate of 36 economists in a Bloomberg News survey. A separate report showed unemployment was 7.3 percent in June, exceeding the 7.2 percent median forecast.
NEW YORK: Inflation in the US could hit 6 per cent by the fall, CIBC World Markets' chief economist said on Wednesday.
Consumer prices for June were up 5 percent from the year before, the fastest one-year change since 1991. Jeffrey Rubin, chief economist of Toronto-based investment bank CIBC, predicts a 6 per cent rate for overall inflation, a level last seen in 1982.
`The last time we saw 6 per cent inflation in 1990, the federal funds rate was running at around 7.5 per cent _ over three times today's setting. And a 10-year Treasury bond was yielding 8.5 per cent _ over double what it yields today.''
Comments
Just not *my* retirement.
Your results will vary.
<< <i>The insurance products I looked at were great for retirement.
Just not *my* retirement.
Your results will vary. >>
Exactly. I've yet to meet an insurance salesman who didn't answer "insurance" or "annuity" to any question I asked. IMO, the best approach is to load up on inexpensive term life insurance to protect my family, and then invest my money in something that's truly an investment. Of course, each of us has to decide for himself what that is.
I just want to know that all that I have worked for has not disappeared vanished into thin air...I know diversification is the way to go and I have tried that...also down across the board...the only thing to do In this market is to short it!
But I am not comfortable with that either!
<< <i>Exactly. I've yet to meet an insurance salesman who didn't answer "insurance" or "annuity" to any question I asked. >>
True, but how many times does a Toyota salesman recommend that you go over and buy a Ford?
When choosing a fund for your IRA, your stock salesman...err, broker, will attempt to sell you what makes him the largest commission.
This is not surprising.
Just like gold, silver, stock, bonds, and real estate, insurance has its uses and some circumstances, a place in an overall portfolio. It is not a 'silver bullet', or some other GRQ path to vast fortune and wealth.
You need to research , understand your investment options, and choose wisely for your own personal situation.
Random Collector
www.marksmedals.com
<< <i>
<< <i>Exactly. I've yet to meet an insurance salesman who didn't answer "insurance" or "annuity" to any question I asked. >>
True, but how many times does a Toyota salesman recommend that you go over and buy a Ford?
When choosing a fund for your IRA, your stock salesman...err, broker, will attempt to sell you what makes him the largest commission.
This is not surprising.
Just like gold, silver, stock, bonds, and real estate, insurance has its uses and some circumstances, a place in an overall portfolio. It is not a 'silver bullet', or some other GRQ path to vast fortune and wealth.
You need to research , understand your investment options, and choose wisely for your own personal situation. >>
When it comes time to put food on the table, is the salesman going to put it on yours or his?
If the banks have enough assets then they will not go out of business the insurance companies will own their assest but they will remain in business...
What assets?
You're assuming there are assets other than "paper pay offs" in all these transactions which is certainly not the case. In fact I'd wager that most financial transactions on the derivatives side are just bets on which way a particular indicator goes. There are no true assets at all. Just a paper contract on who pays whom and how much and when. The most common wager is on interest rates. The loser is supposed to pay off the winner with cash if the bet goes bad. More than likely the loser has far more debt than assets if he's not paying up. That leaves a bankruptcy judge to determine which creditors get what. I would think that risky otc derivatives bets due to insurance companies would not be high on the list of being paid back. Let's face it, just like the banks, mortgage companies, auto and credit card finance companies, big insurance companies will have their day in the bright derivatives sun.
Considering that the sum of all derivatives in the world is around $1.1 QUADRILLION, it's clear that the financial assets of corporations and municipalities are a fraction of that amount. Hence there is a huge shortage of assets vs. paper wagers. Therein lies the problem.
roadrunner
BTW interesting to see the dollar and banks rally today, AFTER the Merril news. Is it just a counter trend rally with gold and oil dropping?, or is it possible that the financials actually put in a botton on July 17? I wouldn't bet a lot either way, at this juncture...but it is interesting. The last time we had 1000 bank failures(along with all the hand ringing and fear), was in in 1990, when the banks plummeted sharply and quickly(@70% within one year), only to rebound the next 12 months and rise three fold from the bottom in the next 2 years and 9 fold in the next 8. Of course that was then and no one knows what will happen now and in the future. But it is at least a small possibility, that the future is NOT all doom with a heaping portion of gloom.
“Gold Fields Mineral Services is one of the world's top consultancies on precious metals. In their latest survey of worldwide gold demand, they report that Vietnam has displaced India (a country with 10 times the population) as the world's largest gold consuming nation in the first quarter of 2008.”
This is very interesting, not the fact that Vietnamese want gold because there money in worthless, but that they could surpass India in short order.
All these things we have discussed the last few weeks I have done, checked banks, moved money to different banks etc., but still what will we do if the U.S. hits 15 to 25% inflation in the next few years.
Seems impossible but just in the last two weeks the government has agreed to print up to a trillion dollars in new paper for Freddie, Fannie, and 400 thousand under water homeowners.
Several years ago in this thread I told a story about a wholesale gold dealer in Texas who told me, “there will come a time in the next ten years that an average person will not be able to buy an ounce of gold, not on ebay, or from a dealer”
I suppose any paper instrument denominated in dollars becomes worthless if no wants the dollars?
I am not sure I would want any major money in an annuity, a bond, note etc. denominated in DONG’S!
Here is a chart of the dollar over the last 7 years. Fugly, to say the least. But since hitting a bottom on the BSC bailout, the dollar has held quite well. In recent weeks there has been a lot of bad news that probably should have dropped the dollar to lower lows--ie FRE and FNM bailouts, but that news hasnt hurt the dollar. Now we have a dollar that is approaching that downtrend line and 200 DMA, which it hasnt been above in 16 months. When trading you must identify risks. The risk of being long the dollar is less than 3 points as one would sell on a break below the recent lows. The risk in being short is that a break of the dountrend and 200dma, would most likely lead to a test of the major breakdown point near 80, or about 7 points. A 1/3 retracement of the downmove would take the dollar to about 87. Clearly the greatest risk is being short the dollar, rather than being long. Wait for confirmation.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
In other words what are your choices?
roadrunner
Is there anyway that those who win the bets would forgive the losers? Is this possible, it seems like it would be the most simple thing to do...it is all just paper anyway! And to boot betting on Interest Rates!
Met Life not doing so well
No doubt there will be some consolidation of derivatives debt as mergers occur down the road. You can bet that JPM or other larger banks will swallow up other banks to reduce their risk/leverage. It's sort of similar to a company with lots of revenue looking to buy a functioning company with lots of debt to reduce the tax revenues. But the winner absolving the loser of the debt really doesn't accomplish much. Either way, the loser cannot pay. So a company that was carrying a large asset on its books now has to write some or all of it down as a loss. This was supposedly not expected. And in any case is kept from shareholders or investors until it actually happens. Nothing can make this any prettier. It's a loss for both companies and how it looks on the books depends on the type of accounting that is done (GAAP or Govt.).
The govt confiscated very little gold in the 1930's. What FDR really wanted to do was to raise gold's value...in essence giving the dollar an overnight 60% haircut.
roadrunner
Well, every now and then you have to shut down for maintenance and clean out the pipes. I would not count the USD out at all.
I may have this wrong but it looks like we just let the foreign and US banks and brokerages finance the greatest realestate rip off in the history of man kind. All paid for (actually NOT paid for) by the US consumee. So, if the banks/brokerages lost their money and the US consumee lost their money...who got the money? Haven't heard anyone say who got the money, what happened to it; or was it an illusion in the first place, a kind of financial magic act?
roadrunner
I guess the Phrase Build and they will come...needs to meet it's death! Never was a good line, it never worked out!
we had a pump and buy of our 401 k at work
buy buy buy
their thoughts the short selling is over last week because short selling
had their limits raised
not the banks pulling their long's on oil just the limits on short selling being raised
so my thoughts are why would'nt or could'nt they be shorted over seas china, japan
where every i just listened
i'm glad i read this board
i was amazed at the sales pitch
When a commodity or a stock is falling, there is usually a good reason for it...and when it starts to fall people will short it to ride it down and there is a point where the person shorting will have to turn around and buy it back which will make the price rise again...Oil is on shaky ground, come winter time I think things may change again and not in our favor as heating cost and electricity will rise because we all have to stay warm.
Another thing about oil...it is Hurricane season here and if anything such as oil rigs, oil refineries or anything happens in the middle east to disturb the flow of oil, the price of oil will shoot up!
So right now while oil is on the way down, they are saying it is a good time to buy because they know it will be going back up.
It may not be BYE BYE but its close!
One thing that we have not discussed much is what happens to the state and county revenues when all the corporations take their derivative losses and pay no taxes for 10 years, due to write offs.
Lets see, since a great majority of Americans have become tax exempt, and the burdens of socialism has been put of the “Wealthy”, and business, where does the money come from if NO one pays?
I guess the Feds will also have to bail out the States?
"Paterson Warns of Economic Crisis
The new governor of New York avoided any mention of new taxes, instead arguing forcefully for austerity.
“Revenues are dropping dramatically,” the governor added. At the start of May, the state budget office projected a cumulative deficit of $21.5 billion over the next three years. Now, just two months later, that estimate has risen to $26.2 billion — “a staggering 22 percent increase in less than 90 days.”
Mr. Paterson offered another example of the rapid deterioration in the state’s finances. In June 2007, he said, the 16 banks that pay the most on their business profits remitted $173 million to the state treasury. “This June, just a month ago, they sent us $5 million — a 97 percent decrease,” he said."
Annuities is a Insurance policy...conditions are set as far as promised % go....if they do not meet your % in the policy then there is a breach of policy and that goes against the Laws of the Insurance world not the Financial world...Met Life could be in trouble with that alone under the insurance laws....governed by two separate entities...one having nothing to do with the other. With their investment products they do not all fall under the Insurance Laws but the Laws of the Financial world, so you have to be careful as to what products you invest in, whether it is an Insurance company or a Brokerage firm.
Chris Martenson Crash Course
9000 jobs created just for this purpose.
A salient point, GS. In addition, real estate tax revenues will be heading down, which means that real estate TAX RATES will have to go up. Correct?
In other words, the same thing applies to responsible home owners that applied to responsible home loan borrowers - if you pay your bills responsibly, you will also be expected to foot the bills for everyone else who can't or won't work for a living.
I don't have a problem with providing for the truly unfortunate, but I do have a big problem with subsidizing bankers, unqualified borrowers, Fannie Mae executives, and political careers of those who want to tax us more to buy the votes of illiterates who shouldn't be voting, period.
The place is so corrupt, and yet - I'm not sure, but I still think that the U.S.A. is mankind's last, best hope. It all lies with our founding documents and the principles in the founding of our country, which have all but been ignored. It's never too late, but it's getting bad, on many fronts.
I knew it would happen.
I guess since they gave all our technology away, it is the best game in the world!
How many people are gonna want to have kids knowing their fate!
What is that going to do about the tax situation!
Less people ......less taxes!
So, oil rises, lots of diplomatic activites about the high price of oil, people have to curtail pleasure driving and then there is a big push for drilling in ANWR, Calif. and Fla. coasts because of the pain. You have to wonder if this is just a response to high oil prices/foreign energy dependence or it was a play to let US oil get drilling permits in protected areas...but of course, it's for national security and to ease the pain. Nice play, if that is what it was.
Morgtages went to the dump and mostly caught up the people that shouldn't have been there in the first place (along with some small time players) but they were encouraged by lenders/brokers to do the deal so they did and it was easy, everybody qualified and now they carry around a bad financial history and their bank accounts are trashed. The big banks got protection, the fed bailed them out and actually the biggest ones didn't come out too badly so it makes you wonder, was the fix in from the beginning? Who got the money, anybody know who got the money? Well played though if that is what it was.
401's trapped a large part of US income in employeer sponsored plans well out of the reach of the contributors unless they take a substantial hickey, even if they could get to it. As the market slowly drops to eat up about 15% of all deposits, you have to wonder what the very well paid fund managers are doing that they cant pick good conservative, dividend producing stocks for their instruments and participants. So, banks are going bad and you put your clients funds in oil, so housing goes down and you put your clients in GE, so airlines tank and you put your clients in robotics...now just what is so darn hard about that? Meanwhile, the fund managers get paid just fine. Meanwhile, retirement plans get delayed for a year or two, people continue paying into SS for a little longer, people paying mature worker taxes into the system and they are out there dangling in the wind while their portfolios are under water. Wonder if anyone feels like they are being played?
Just like curtailing driving, you end up paying a bunch less fed and state fuel tax so now the fed and states are moaning and groaning about not being able to fix the roads and bridges. Look at it like this...So they put a fuel tax on gasoline, kind of a fix your roads and bridges as you go plan. That way, the money doesn't come out of the general fund in fact, if there is any excess income from the fuel tax, it can go into the general fund. Since we pay no specific tax that pays for indigent services such as court related costs, hospitilization, social services, etc. so that comes out of the general fund (here it comes mostly from a state sales tax). Consequently the states/fed are in the press complaining about not having any money to fix the roads and bridges any more because people aren't driving and using enough gas but there is enough money to pay all the indigent services. So now there is a built in reason for bad bridges and roads instead of reaching into the general fund to fix them...nice play. I'm driving less and enjoying it more and all the indigents are getting their needs taken care of, and I'm paying much less fuel tax...it's all good. Good play!
There are certainly more examples and I'm not one for conspiracy theories but I sure do feel like I'm being played. The only way to play back is to buy PM and hold cash. One thing for sure, if you just sit on the couch and think everything is normal...you're burnt toast on a pointy stick. Use cash and trash the credit card companies, drive less and trash the tax machine, contribute to 501 c-3's and lower your fed tax, there's tons of things that you can do...so get out there and PLAY!
To extend this analogy a little further, that beach ball will eventually fall back into the water, but by that time (Gold=Dow), I'll be out of my Gold position.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
Here come the Military Schools!
I guess this will be volunteer! HaHaHa!
<< <i>Ever get the feeling that you are getting played?
There are certainly more examples and I'm not one for conspiracy theories but I sure do feel like I'm being played. The only way to play back is to buy PM and hold cash. One thing for sure, if you just sit on the couch and think everything is normal...you're burnt toast on a pointy stick. Use cash and trash the credit card companies, drive less and trash the tax machine, contribute to 501 c-3's and lower your fed tax, there's tons of things that you can do...so get out there and PLAY! >>
with market influences and options (choices and methods for obtaining and of couse playing with the paper PM's) greater than they were a few decades ago, i am wondering if we will see the prices we should see with PM. i would think not, but there does seem to be something going on that is obviously not transparent and nothing will be done about it
57loaded, I would agree with you, except for the fact that the rest of the world is now on the same ride that we are taking - there will be fewer and fewer suckers available to pawn off U.S. Dollars in light of the policies that our government and bankers like to pursue.
I believe that the jig is pretty much up, and that PMs *might* be helpful, but I'm not even entirely sure about that. There's very little integrity at the higher levels in government, corporations, politics and the media - in my opinion.
The media isn't any help at all, and I'm not really sure why they've opted for the "dumbing down" of their clientele. I just bought some more silver today. That expresses my opinion at this point.
I knew it would happen.
I'm not sure that nothing will be done about it. For the consumees, all they have to do is play back. Individuals must choke the crap out of the machine that is trying to grind us into submission. We have to fight socialism by making them spend our tax money on infrastructure...no transportation, no infrastructure, no tax income and the machine fails and the system crumbles and no body gets paid. Infrastructure first, "programs" second. The public sector must keep the infrastructure up or the whole machine fails. If the money is not there for "programs" and socialism then they won't have the money to pay for it. Believe me, they (our elected representatives) will think it's better to have a safe public water supply or bridges across rivers so that people can get to work than it is to have some new "programs" but as long as there is tax income to support those "programs" then they will continue to expand because that expands the voting base for program minded people. It is only by reducing our individual tax load that we can influence the machine. The property tax decreases and fuel tax decreases that will be folded into the '09 public budgets soon should begin to give us some indication of the effect of tax income and we might even begin to see a curtailment of some of these social programs. They might counter with proposing to raise taxes...huge public outcry to follow and anyone that proposes that will simply not be elected so it's a kind of nice position for voters to be in right now, for a change. So, when you hear some elected person or some candidate talking up programs, think about infrastructure and what you can do about it.
The only way to do something about it is for individuals to stop paying into the machine. Little things like don't take the toll way (taxorama), buy PM, pay with cash (no credit card transaction fees either way)...just do it, lower your tax expenses at every opportunity, don't smoke cigarettes (social tax bunny). It's your money and if you keep giving it to your representatives, they will surely spend it for you; they certainly will not be spending it on you. There are probably 40 or 50 million people paying into the system out of the 350 million people that we know about that are living in the US. As long as everybody keeps paying like everything is beautiful then the machine just keeps growing and grinding. If people will just stop it then something will have to change and I'm sure a functional city sewer plant is much more important than a new "program".
Sorry for all the diatribe today, but it seems that now, in this soon to be tax poor environment, is our chance to have an effect and it's good to discuss this. The sooner we start, the sooner we can see what the impact will be.
aids in lowering the cost of transporting goods across the Nation and in
general, improves the quality of life. Nothing like hitting a pot hole at 60 MPH
or driving on a bridge that collapses under you. Such things can utterly ruin ones
entire day.
Camelot
When it collapsed!
Don't count on it...
Cintra Concessions de Infraestructuras de Transporte, S.A. of Spain plans to recover through tolls an investment that is estimated to exceed $180 billion for the full 50-year build-out of the TTC 4,000-mile network.
TTC stands for Trans-Texas Corridor, a 1/4 mile wide right of way heading from Mehico northward.
of such privately owned roadways. I will always
vote against anyone that allows such to happen.
Camelot
Someone Hell Bent on us becoming a third world!
Rumor has it here that our Governor is also thinking of selling all our toll roads as he has spent the state broke!
A ticket on these toll roads is $80 a pop/toll! If you can not get over to the booth (because you do not have an I pass) , because of Road Construction or traffic is so backed up...tuff! Boy do the cameras take good pictures of your plate and right hand side!
By DAVID M. HERSZENHORN
Published: July 31, 2008
WASHINGTON — President Bush signed into law on Wednesday a huge package of housing legislation
Partly to accommodate the rescue plan for the mortgage companies, the bill raises the national debt ceiling to $10.6 trillion, an increase of $800 billion. The bill also creates significant liabilities and risks for taxpayers, that are virtually impossible to calculate.
I bought some I bonds this week, but funny thing, only individuals can now buy these and one can only buy a maximum of $5,000 dollars worth per year. Last year the limit was $30,000. A couple can buy $10,000 as long as they put the bonds into separate names. For those not familiar with these they are the inflation adjusted bonds. The government will continue to lie about the CPI but these pay better than C.D.’S or other treasuries.
July 31 (Bloomberg) -- Inflation in Europe accelerated to the fastest pace in more than 16 years in July, restricting the European Central Bank's room to bolster the economy even as unemployment starts to increase.
The inflation rate for the 15-nation euro region rose to 4.1 percent from 4 percent in June, the European Union statistics office in Luxembourg said today. The rate, the highest since April 1992, matched the median estimate of 36 economists in a Bloomberg News survey. A separate report showed unemployment was 7.3 percent in June, exceeding the 7.2 percent median forecast.
NEW YORK: Inflation in the US could hit 6 per cent by the fall, CIBC World Markets' chief economist said on Wednesday.
Consumer prices for June were up 5 percent from the year before, the fastest one-year change since 1991. Jeffrey Rubin, chief economist of Toronto-based investment bank CIBC, predicts a 6 per cent rate for overall inflation, a level last seen in 1982.
`The last time we saw 6 per cent inflation in 1990, the federal funds rate was running at around 7.5 per cent _ over three times today's setting. And a 10-year Treasury bond was yielding 8.5 per cent _ over double what it yields today.''