Commemorative collectors - is there a fundamental difference between classic and modern commemorativ
dan1ecu
Posts: 1,573
For those of you that collect one but not the other, what is your reasoning for doing so?
Dan
Dan
0
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Self Indulgence | Holey Coins | Flickr Photostream
I collect classic commems and would admit to a strong bias and dislike for the moderns, but your question has made me re-consider. I don't see any real difference in a true sense other than personal preference. Perhaps mintages? A couple of thousand classics with small numbers of survivors in gem, v. high mintages and almost ALL in superb gem + condition (in mint capsules no less). Moderns all should be in the 68-70 ranges (albeit rare in 70??!!), but a Pan-Pac in 65 or even something like a Monroe or Sesqui in 65 are tremendously tough.
Perhaps the hunt? With the money, I can go to my local shop and raid the safe for unlimited moderns (in most cases . . .with some rare exceptions), but I have to go to a large show and search for 2 days to find a Hudson . . .and then it might not be what I like. For the fun of the hunt . . . classics are hard to beat.
Perhaps design? I am a bit turned off by the flat relief, pop-art sameness (well, OK, then there is Eunice Shriver but that hardly counts as an improvement).
History? Many of the classics have quite a story as opposed to the moderns. Production and mintages affected by wars, depressions, collecting eras, etc. I look at a classic now that is in a decent (63+) grade and wonder how it survived and where it has ben. I know where he modern has been . . . in a safe with 30 others just like it. Both have interesting themes . . it's a wash there.
But . . nothing against the collectors of the moderns. I have grabbed a few . . . and I hope they continue to rise in value and make those collectors rich. There's plenty in the numismatic world for all of us . . . but for an opinion, there's my semi-warped view of the commem world.
DRUNNER ("CROSS COUNTRY SET" on the PCGS 50 pc. Registry)
1928 Oregon PCGS 65.
Commemoratives are all that interest me!
My early collection:
My modern collection:
Thanks, all, for your comments.
Dan
mcinnes@mailclerk.ecok.edu">dmcinnes@mailclerk.ecok.edu
this coin spent decades in an album even before the first modern commem was thought of or minted and most all the classic commems are many times more beautiful and historical and were issued for circulation
a true coin of the people
michael
<< <i>this should answer your question
michael >>
This coin is extremely tarnished and discolored. If you send it to me, I'll be happy to send you a clean replacement.
Cheers,
Self Indulgence | Holey Coins | Flickr Photostream
Sesquicentennial of 1926
Coined mintage 1,000,000 plus 528 reserved for assay
returned for re-melting: 859,000
Net mintage:140,592
Enough said.
Classic commemoratives were sold by the sponsoring group with the purpose of raising funds. Usually to help finance the even itself although some times just to raise funds for the promoter. The government was paid the face value of the coins so the only money they made was seniorage.
Modern Commemoratives are created and sold by the government to raise funds for the government, theoretically to celebrate an event, and if there is any money left after the government takes both their share and usually part of the organizations cut, some for the sponsoring organization. That is IF they can first raise a matching amount of money on thier own. If they can't then the govenment will keep all of their share as well, even though they sell the coins under the premise that a specific amount of money from the sale of each coin will go to the organization. Blatant false advertising. If any private company made the claim that X number of dollars from the sale of each item was going to go to a certain chartity or organization, and then kept part of that money for themselves you can bet they would find themselves facing charges for fraud.
But is there a difference coin versus coin?
Now, of course, every coin design is different. And the one Michael posted is gorgeous, however I am sure someone somewhere has an equally gorgeously toned modern (AT or NT, really doesn't matter) what matters is that sooner or later, if stored in the right conditions, a modern commem can and will attain the same level of toning as some of the classics.
Now most will not as they are either left in the government plastic, or immediately entombed in third party plastic. But out there, in a few places, there are those moderns which are being housed in albums that if left alone long enough, will produce the occasonal stunner.
What about designs classic versus modern?
We all know that there is an ongoing war of words between the classic and modern collectors as to designs being worthy of their place on coins. It exists in the commem world as well. The classic designs are better, more beautiful etc. That may simply be due to the fact that they are what they are, CLASSIC COMMEMS. The moderns suffer from being too new, too populous and many of the half dollar issues - too clad. When and if the modern commem program draws to a close, we may find the modern commems take on a completely different life of their own, because then they will slowly become the second wave of classic commems (over a very long time).
And then a greedy government will enact a third commem program after some pause of years/decades, and it will all start over again. In 2045, there will be the sons and grandsons of people on these boards argueing about the differences between "original classics", "new classics" and the truely modern commemoratives which began anew in the year 2041 with commemorative dollar for the centennial of US entry into WWII.
If history continues to repeat itself look for Modern Commems to fade away as we see the influx of new coin designs. Interest in the new designs and the collecting of the retired designs will draw collector's interest from the commems. Just like all the Dead President designs did to the Early Commems. Then in about another twenty years you see a whole new interest in commems, creating a triad of commem collectors. Early, Middle, and Modern.
I think Conder above hit on one of the fundamental differeces above. The US Mint has positioned itself over the years as a Retail Profit Center and is now producing goods for sale, not coins.
Another fundamental difference is that the early commems were circulated in most cases. They were business strikes in the truest sense. They were sold at a premium to collectors but the premium was usually a buck or less. Of course today's commems will never be seen in circulation as for most the metal content far outvalues the face value. And for clad halves the premium paid was too substantial for the owner to simply toss the commem into circulation.
The modern commems are almost entirely sold to collectors and they come in nice protective holders that will keep them from damage, scratches, careless handling, and almost all of their mintage will survive in nice condition.
<< <i>
this coin spent decades in an album even before the first modern commem was thought of or minted and most all the classic commems are many times more beautiful and historical and were issued for circulation
michael >>
Most classic commemoratives were never issued for circulation. It was possible
to find many of them in circulation and some circulated heavily.