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R&I Opens Online Coin Auction Site!

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  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,720 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>moderns == drama >>




    Of course when the coins are just pocket change ever chasing
    the greater fool it takes little imagination to picture the day that
    the greatest fool is all in. With so many pointing out the flaws
    that make this all possible it's none too surprising that there is
    an air mystery and suspense.

    Thanks guys. image
    tempus fugit extra philosophiam.
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,720 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>looks like a few things are happening here:

    1. a major modern coin promoter is showing that the two-way street of buying and selling high-grade moderns is thin. >>



    Ever try selling some old coins back?



    << <i>
    2. the OP's company goes from customer unfriendly, to shilling for known sleezebags on cable TV like Jimmy Gerstel. >>



    These shows have had guests from the director of the mint to leaders in third part grading. I guess you'll paint them all with the same brush.
    tempus fugit extra philosophiam.
  • DoogyDoogy Posts: 4,508


    << <i>

    << <i>looks like a few things are happening here:

    1. a major modern coin promoter is showing that the two-way street of buying and selling high-grade moderns is thin. >>



    Ever try selling some old coins back?

    Yes, and generally I do quite well.



    << <i>
    2. the OP's company goes from customer unfriendly, to shilling for known sleezebags on cable TV like Jimmy Gerstel. >>



    These shows have had guests from the director of the mint to leaders in third part grading. I guess you'll painrt them all with the same brush.

    Yup. If you lie down with pigs, be prepared to get dirty. why wouldn't the Mint and TPGs go on these shows? A decent amount of business for both of these types of businesses is derived by the Cable TV coin show hucksters. Doesn't mean that they are good for the consumer.

    If you'd like to defend the Cable TV coin shows, be my guest...........



    << <i>
    3. just because you write a well known book on the types of coins you sell, doesn't mean you have any more ethical business practices than the next guy (and sometimes less) >>



    This deserves no response.

    Suit yourself. how am I wrong here?

    >>

  • mrearlygoldmrearlygold Posts: 17,858 ✭✭✭
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,720 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    If you'd like to defend the Cable TV coin shows, be my guest........... ) >>




    Most of these deserve no defense but this isn't because of the high
    prices so much as the misrepresentation and hucksterism.

    High overhead assures high prices.

    I feel that we should be pleased that there's enough dept to the
    market that these shows can even exist and then we should make
    damn sure everyone knows that these venues are usually (almost
    always) among the very worst places to buy coins.

    To suggest that appearing on one of these shows equates you with
    their stars is hardly fair and hardly the equivalent of consorting with
    the devil.



    tempus fugit extra philosophiam.
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>and a 1967 SMS Kennedy Birthmark NGC67UCAM (which crossed to a PCGS 67DCAM)). >>



    PICS!!!!!!!

    Russ, NCNE
  • ConnecticoinConnecticoin Posts: 13,107 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nice eye-opener on some of the sleaze in the coin market. Sure we know it goes on, but getting a blow-by-blow account is quite fascinating.
  • .........i had a coin I bought from R.T. , I held it a couple years and then sold it back to him - for over 2000$ more then I paid him for it .

    It was a 1949-S Franklin that he even mentions in his book .


  • << <i>.........i had a coin I bought from R.T. , I held it a couple years and then sold it back to him - for over 2000$ more then I paid him for it .

    It was a 1949-S Franklin that he even mentions in his book . >>



    Wow---what a difference 8 months makes. The saga of the run-up and collapse of high-grade Franklin prices should be required reading for every beginning collector. There are dealers who will artfully peddle high-grade moderns like the snake-oil salesmen of the 19th century. There are many who would say, in response, that one should only spend totally discretionary money on coins, i. e., there should be no expectation that one's collection could be sold for anything (much less a profit). Very few collectors will accept this argument, which is a good thing for the industry as it would likely collapse otherwise. The real lesson here is that collectors need to learn the truth about the coin market, especially the fact that marketing rules-----there are lots of promotions that cause certain types of coins to be quickly run up in price, followed by a crash when the party's over. This is a dirty aspect of numismatics that relatively few collectors have learned to spot and steer clear of. It's also part of the reason why most collectors lose money when they try to sell their coins. If you buy coins, be sure that there is a genuine two-way market that extends well beyond the dealer that you bought the coins from.

    One other take-home lesson from this story:
    Any high-grade modern coin, that is very common (and cheap) in a MS/PR grade lower by one point, simply isn't worth moon money. Unless you are a clever marketer.
  • <<Myqqy
    Guitar master, Coin slave

    Posts: 10147
    Joined: Jul 2003
    Wednesday November 03, 2004 3:24 PM



    As a collector of cameo franklins, I'm finding this thread to be 100% interesting.....
    Coin Lieutenant- if you want to hold on to that 1950 cam franklin, I should be ready to buy it from you in about..... 5 to 10 years....

    -------------------------

    13flr.com >>

    Well it has been 5 years, are you still ready to buy? Or, do you want to wait 5 more? image


    <<One other take-home lesson from this story:
    Any high-grade modern coin, that is very common (and cheap) in a MS/PR grade lower by one point, simply isn't worth moon money. Unless you are a clever marketer. >>

    An excellent observation, and a lesson I am glad I did not have to learn the hard way. This thread was very educational!image
  • MICHAELDIXONMICHAELDIXON Posts: 6,571 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Franklins tend to be cyclical. I have built several sets whenever the market was low and everybody was crying: "the sky was falling." Whenever the market turned, I did well on them. So...now is the time to buy Franklins for the future. What do they say: "Buy while the blood is running in the streets and sell whenever everybody else is buying." or something to that effect.
    Spring National Battlefield Coin Show is April 3-5, 2025 at the Eisenhower Hotel Ballroom, Gettysburg, PA. WWW.AmericasCoinShows.com
  • I wish you much success however R&I is not the only eBay style on line auctions site CoinSpace.com uses an eBay style auction platform for Numismatics only as well.

    Current Auction Listings
    Greg Bose
    CoinSpace.com Founder
    www.coinspace.com
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,720 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    Wow---what a difference 8 months makes. The saga of the run-up and collapse of high-grade Franklin prices should be required reading for every beginning collector. There are dealers who will artfully peddle high-grade moderns like the snake-oil salesmen of the 19th century. There are many who would say, in response, that one should only spend totally discretionary money on coins, i. e., there should be no expectation that one's collection could be sold for anything (much less a profit). Very few collectors will accept this argument, which is a good thing for the industry as it would likely collapse otherwise. The real lesson here is that collectors need to learn the truth about the coin market, especially the fact that marketing rules-----there are lots of promotions that cause certain types of coins to be quickly run up in price, followed by a crash when the party's over. This is a dirty aspect of numismatics that relatively few collectors have learned to spot and steer clear of. It's also part of the reason why most collectors lose money when they try to sell their coins. If you buy coins, be sure that there is a genuine two-way market that extends well beyond the dealer that you bought the coins from.

    One other take-home lesson from this story:
    Any high-grade modern coin, that is very common (and cheap) in a MS/PR grade lower by one point, simply isn't worth moon money. Unless you are a clever marketer. >>




    Franklins aren't moderns.

    And as MichaelDixon said the time to buy something is when blood
    is running in the streets. Apparently now is a pretty good time to pick
    up a few cheap Franklins.

    I don't believe you'll be able to sell your concept that people shouldn't
    seek quality just because a coin is common in a little lower grade. I tend
    to agree with you but most collectors don't. Oh sure, I'll fight and claw
    for a little better grade on even a coin that's common in slightly lower
    grade but I too am leery of paying very high prices for them. But don't
    lose sight of the fact that not all Franklins (and many moderns) are com-
    mon in slightly lower grades. Try finding a nice gem '53-S FBL.






    tempus fugit extra philosophiam.
  • bidaskbidask Posts: 14,022 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So does R&I make a market in the Frankies they sell....if so how big is their spread?
    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • PawPaulPawPaul Posts: 5,845
    the spread ?
  • WoodenJeffersonWoodenJefferson Posts: 6,491 ✭✭✭✭
    Spread...as in Poderosa.

    Gee Paw, all these years I thought Rick was held in such high praise?
    Chat Board Lingo

    "Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
  • PawPaulPawPaul Posts: 5,845
    .....oh for heavens sakes ; I thought was referring to the spreading of cheeks and thusly how far one would have to bend over !

    Rick Tomaska has his shortcomings as do we all , but I am holding many coins from him that I consider to be the best money can buy ,

    and after meeting and chatting with him - I believe his heart is in the right place.

    Sometimes I yield to temptation and jab him in the ribs a little , but I try to stay loyal overall
    image
  • nankrautnankraut Posts: 4,565 ✭✭✭
    So....I'm ready to pay big bucks for a no-problem PCGS PR66CAM or 67CAM Franklin. Anybody have one to sell me??

    I'm serious, btw. Please PM me.
    I'm the Proud recipient of a genuine "you suck" award dated 1/24/05. I was accepted into the "Circle of Trust" on 3/9/09.

  • Many do not understand the modern cameo market. It takes a special type of buyer who appreciates cameo coins.

    If a dealer is not buying back the material he sells he will sometimes say "Sorry, no interest as I am phazing these out." Of course if the guy deales primarily in that material it is difficult for him to say this.

  • I don't like the way RT is being slammed here. His book on Franks is by far the best one I have read on the series. Coins are a hobby, what a willing buyer and seller agree on a rare coin is its value at that point in time. The market for ultra cameo classic coins is very thin and the average ebay buyer is too ignorant to price this stuff.
  • mkman123mkman123 Posts: 6,849 ✭✭✭✭
    Very interesting read! Did Coinlt ever get RT to buy back the coins?

    Do some of the other members like bushmaster still feel the same way about him?
    Successful Buying and Selling transactions with:

    Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
  • Because we all should focus on treating each other with love and respect ,

    and knowing that no one should have the right to judge another ,

    we members of this board strive now to seek out the positive and goodness in each other image
  • .......is there any way we can bring up more of these grand old posts ? image
  • ArizonaJackArizonaJack Posts: 4,029 ✭✭✭
    WOW...Amazing thread and a real eye opener !!
    " YOU SUCK " Awarded 5/18/08
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,720 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I don't like the way RT is being slammed here. His book on Franks is by far the best one I have read on the series. Coins are a hobby, what a willing buyer and seller agree on a rare coin is its value at that point in time. The market for ultra cameo classic coins is very thin and the average ebay buyer is too ignorant to price this stuff. >>




    It's mostly just a lot of people who don't know anything about the company, the coins,
    or the market. Some of them seem oblivious to simple truths and apparently haven't
    sold any coins back to their favorite dealers as well.

    If anyone thinks they can compete with R&I there's nothing stopping them. All they
    have to do is buy a few unopened sets on eBay and have at it. I'm sure their repu-
    tation won't be as good as R&I. But go ahead, it's easy to make money in the modern
    markets and Franklins since collectors are so unsophisticated they won't even concern
    themselves with real market prices.
    tempus fugit extra philosophiam.
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,720 ✭✭✭✭✭
    tempus fugit extra philosophiam.
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,799 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is a fun blast from the past. image
  • No coins up for auction
  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 9,772 ✭✭✭✭✭
    After reading thru all this, its just re affirms my opinion that this type of market is a one way market. Dealers push this type of material saying its the best of the best , and its hot, while all along they have made these coins cherrying them along the way from modern sets, collections etc. Then, selling for huge profits, but dont want to buy them back becuase they dont want to pay anywhere near what they sold them for becuase why buy em , when they can make em and make huge profits vs sitting on a thinly traded product that they have real dollsrs into.

    Some of this modern 70 stuff has /is heading down the same path
  • mrpotatoheaddmrpotatoheadd Posts: 7,576 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Dealers push this type of material saying its the best of the best , and its hot, while all along they have made these coins cherrying them along the way from modern sets, collections etc. Then, selling for huge profits, but dont want to buy them back becuase they dont want to pay anywhere near what they sold them for becuase why buy em , when they can make em and make huge profits vs sitting on a thinly traded product that they have real dollsrs into. >>

    I think you will find lots of dealers will tell you collectors feel the same way- they don't want to buy them, they want to cherrypick them.

    So- the dealer's the bad guy because he won't buy the collector's cherrypicks and he's the bad guy because he won't let collectors search his inventory for cherrypicks, too. Is that about right? image
  • SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 12,563 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Having reread this thread from the past my current comments are:

    1. R&I has some of the most gorgeous, eye appealling, cameo proof and SMS coins and MS coins I have seen;

    2. R&I charges high prices for the coins that it sells;

    3. Some of the coins that R&I sells can, with lots of time and effort looking through large quantities of proof and mint sets, be found by collectors and can be purchased for a relative pittance [cherrypicked, which every collector loves to do, for example MadMarty posted a thread recently about buying a 1964 proof set for around $11.00 that contained a cameo 1964 AH half];

    4. If a collector wants to have a source from which he/she can buy high grade/high quality coins like those sold by R&I without substantial time and effort, R&I is a great source [you pay for the service provided by R&I in finding the coins you want and making them available to you for a few mouse clicks and your credit card]. In this case if you are a knowing collector and realize that you will not be able to easily resell the coin you bought back to R&I, so what. You buy knowing the playing field and if you do not acquire this knowledge before you buy you are foolish; and

    5. If you are senstive to cost, spend some time looking elsewhere [other than R&I] for coins comparable to those offered by R&I and you will be able to find them and pick them up for less money.

    I have spent time slogging through proof sets, SMS sets, Mint sets and individual coins at shops, shows and collections being liquidated and have had some good luck in finding high quality Cameos and Mint Set toners for very modest prices. Others here on the forums have done and currently do the same thing. For me a lot of the fun is the hunt for these coins. Simply surfing a specialty dealer's web site and clicking to "Add to my cart" to acquire a similar coins is not my idea of fun.

  • garrynotgarrynot Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Like i said my friend, check it out! For the FIRST MONTH we have the auction sight open it is 100% FREE TO LIST COINS if you do not buy any add on features! For now it only costs money if you sell the coin. You found that under the Fees & Services section im guessing, and after the first month that will come into play. And, coinlieutenant, our telephone # is no secret... 858 792 1219 we are not "evading" you, but we believe these issues are private. But i can not guarentee that we will buy your coin back, for all we know you dipped it in acid. Now... R&I has THE LONGEST return NO QUESTIONS ASKED policy of 15 DAYS!!!(unless of course it looks like you took a hammer to it). We are reasonable people with good business ethics. We have always taken pride in selling the best of we have to offer, and making sure the customer recieves what s/he is expecting. >>




    "But i can not guarentee that we will buy your coin back, for all we know you dipped it in acid. "

    My god what online marketing degree did this guy get?
  • PawPaulPawPaul Posts: 5,845
    "But i can not guarentee that we will buy your coin back, for all we know you dipped it in acid. "


    I have tried to stay off this post as I admire the man that runs R&I coins despite his past shortcomings .


    As the boss , he is responsible for the actions of his employee's , and if not already given in another thread

    each of us is owed an apology from Rick for the snotnosed , immature, and insulting tone of Brenden's comments

    as he posted under the UltimateCameo handle .



    Long live the mighty, mighty Franklin collector and the men who supply them with superb coins image
  • wow what a blast from the past.................... image
  • bidaskbidask Posts: 14,022 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>After reading thru all this, its just re affirms my opinion that this type of market is a one way market. Dealers push this type of material saying its the best of the best , and its hot, while all along they have made these coins cherrying them along the way from modern sets, collections etc. Then, selling for huge profits, but dont want to buy them back becuase they dont want to pay anywhere near what they sold them for becuase why buy em , when they can make em and make huge profits vs sitting on a thinly traded product that they have real dollsrs into.

    Some of this modern 70 stuff has /is heading down the same path >>

    I think that pretty much sums it up pretty accurately.
    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.






  • << <i>"But i can not guarentee that we will buy your coin back, for all we know you dipped it in acid. "


    I have tried to stay off this post as I admire the man that runs R&I coins despite his past shortcomings .


    As the boss , he is responsible for the actions of his employee's , and if not already given in another thread

    each of us is owed an apology from Rick for the snotnosed , immature, and insulting tone of Brenden's comments

    as he posted under the UltimateCameo handle .



    Long live the mighty, mighty Franklin collector and the men who supply them with superb coins image >>




    C'mon do you think your going to get an apology after years have passed, be serious.image
    Positive:
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    Negative BST Transactions:
  • CoinCrazyPACoinCrazyPA Posts: 2,899 ✭✭✭✭
    Are they running auctions on ebay? I think I bought some moderns a few months back. That states all white haze free, well 3 out of 10 I got were crap.
    Positive BST transactions: agentjim007, cohodk, CharlieC, Chrischampeon, DRG, 3 x delistamps, djdilliodon, gmherps13, jmski52, Meltdown, Mesquite, 2 x nibanny, themaster, 2 x segoja, Timbuk3, ve3rules, jom, Blackhawk, hchcoin, Relaxn, pitboss, blu62vette, Jfoot13, Jinx86, jfoot13,Ronb

    Successful Trades: Swampboy,


  • << <i>Are they running auctions on ebay? I think I bought some moderns a few months back. That states all white haze free, well 3 out of 10 I got were crap. >>



    R&I isn't much into moderns. What was the name of the seller so we can confirm?


  • << <i> R&I isn't much into moderns. >>



    Say what? Your credibility just floated away, my friend.
    "Wars are really ugly! They're dirty
    and they're cold.
    I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
    Mary






    Best Franklin Website
  • PawPaulPawPaul Posts: 5,845
    R&I is heavy into moderns

    and last time I checked , there was no time limits set for apologies
  • mumumumu Posts: 1,840
    Anyone know the best way to make the R&I catalogs stop? I feel like I am contributing to higher coin costs for others by receving that thing every week.
  • bushmaster8bushmaster8 Posts: 5,616


    << <i>Anyone know the best way to make the R&I catalogs stop? I feel like I am contributing to higher coin costs for others by receving that thing every week. >>



    They stopped sending them to me when I stopped buying from them.
    "Wars are really ugly! They're dirty
    and they're cold.
    I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
    Mary






    Best Franklin Website
  • DrPeteDrPete Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭
    Wish I could be as smart as R&I. Buy coins raw at a low price, get them graded as high-end cameo, make a name for yourself selling them and write a book on such coins.

    Sell them for a significant markup, and you don't even have to buy any back anytime because you can always find more ungraded coins in the millions of proof sets out there.

    If I can just figure out a similar business model, I could quit my day job. Alas, I don't think that will happen. I'm jealous.

    Dr. Pete
  • PawPaulPawPaul Posts: 5,845


    << <i>Are they running auctions on ebay? I think I bought some moderns a few months back. That states all white haze free, well 3 out of 10 I got were crap. >>




    .........is this the kind of thing you were referring to ?

    Spot free- Haze free
  • DrPeteDrPete Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭
    Anything new here in the world of Cameos?
    Dr. Pete

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