Hows this for good news !

cdan12

I recieved a grade from PCGS today on 1955 DDO lincoln, the coin looked a easy ms-64rb maybe 65,PCGS says it is not genuine,(counterfeit) I bought the coin raw on ebay from a 100% positive seller,he now say sorry, I was confident it was genuine but it is too late for a return.I am out $962 plus grading fees,its tool ate to do any thing with paypal.Seller ebay id is" kvnalxndr ",He lives in North Las Vegas Nevada, any ideas ?

JadeRareCoin

That's a bunch of BS! He must honor a return.

Important question: did you save images of his eBay photo, or are his images still showing on the eBay auction? If you can positively connect his photos with the PCGS body bag, then you can go after the seller. What a crock!

coinbuf

Sorry to hear your bad news. Sounds like you've learned an expensive lesson; never buy expensive raw coins from ebay unless your very sure about the seller. Do you have any pics of the coin or link to the auction?

Chris

JRocco

That really stinks cdan. I feel for you buddy.

cdan12

The pictures are still on ebay, the coin would be easy to match to the pictures due to some toning it had,I have learned a lesson but I am not through with this yet.

UncleWiggly

I hope someone can come up with something because I can't.


Jerry

TUMUSS

relayer

That doesn't sound like good news.

How long ago did you buy it? If you paid with PayPal you have 30 days to file a claim. You can file a fraud claim report with eBay, but it only covers $225

I would get his contact info from eBay and call him. If he doesn't refund your money, contact a detective from his local police department.

cdan12

how did you find the image so quick?

TUMUSS

I just looked for your ID saw "cdawn12" (thought that must be it)....copy and pasted his picture links. Easy-Cheesy

JadeRareCoin

Nice images. NOT! First of all, the coin looks cleaned to me and NOT mint state, even if it were genuine. Secondly, his images are probably blurry for a very good reason; he probably knows that it is fake. Maybe he bought it on eBay and is passing on his mistake????

Relayer made some great suggestions. If you cannot take the PayPal route, then the suggestion to contact his local police department is a great idea. Someone on this forum took that route recently with good success. It is amazing how people change their refund policy once the police get involved.

Put the heat on this scum bag.

Neptune

request complete refund or you will report them to FBI, postmaster and local police and/or whoever is in charge of mail fraud. If you paid through paypal or CC then you can also request a refund. Follow up and don't take the loss. What a crock - intentional or not. good luck, and let us know how it comes out. Isn't there some coin police on the lightside?

Hoot

You have (I believe) 90 days from the end of the auction to file a fraud claim. You should also contact the Nevada State Attorney General and file a fraud complaint, but first... save the entire eBay page to your hard disk and file a grievance with eBay. In the case of counterfeit coins being sold as numismatic objects, it is the seller's responsibility to identify the coin as counterfeit. Advertisement and sale of any such coin as genuine is fraud.

In the end, you may only get a portion of your money back (I think eBay limits the return to $300), but it's better than nothing.

Hoot

clackamas

Wouldn't a fake, i.e. counterfiet fall under the jurisdiction of the secret service? Of course postal fraud is a good way to go. From what I hear the postal fraud guys take stuff like this very seriously and are the most likely to press for charges, but then again I have no idea what I am talking about

Conder101

Is it still in the sellers holder? No? Most return policies are void if the coin is removed from the holder. How could you prove it is the same coin? Especially with those auction pics.

And I agree with Jade, the auction pics make it look cleaned and NOT MS.

It is an expensive lesson but others should learn something from this. If you are planning to submit a coin to the grading service you should first get an extention of the return policy from the seller. (On questions of authenticity a legitimate seller will almost always be OK with that.)Yes a seller should be required to accept a return on a counterfeit no matter how long since the sale, but once you remove it from the holder it always brings up the question about whether it is the same coin.

solid

Can you post some photos of the coin in the PCGS bodybag? Hopefully, you
can get the same angle showing the toning. That bit at the base of the
wheat stalks should be enough to prove it's the same coin.

Then, go after the guy with no holds barred. Difference of grading opinion
is one thing, but counterfeit/fake/altered is quite another!

Ken

P.S. Do what Hoot says immediately - save the entire ebay page, with
photos, to your hard disk. The photos in this thread are only a link to the
originals, which will disappear at some point!

kieferscoins

<< <i>the coin looked a easy ms-64rb maybe 65,PCGS says it is not genuine,(counterfeit) >>



The sellers picture looks like a XF cleaned to me.

Cameron Kiefer

ss350camaro

Auction Link

I would press him very hard on taking this POS back and refunding your money.

Grading differences are one thing but counterfeits are a whole different ball game.

I would threaten him by telling him you will have the U.S. Secret Service investigate him for selling counterfeit U.S. Coinage.

earlwbollinger

Wow. Bummer. I feel for ya. Been there and done that myself.

But I am now curious as to how you can tell a fake from the real McCoy?

kieferscoins

Item title:

<< <i>1955/55 Double Die Lincoln Cent (VF-20) >>



What made you think it was MS-64 or 5? Is that why you bid so high?

Cameron Kiefer

UncleJoe

I think this is a good opportunity to see if eBay stands by its new policy regarding coins.

I don't remeber the exact wording but when you submit an auction to be posted under a Coins category you are agreeing that the item is genuine. I would contact eBay with your grievance ASAP.

Joe.

Steve27

It is illegal to sell counterfeit coins, and thus his argument is without merit. However, in order to recover your loss, you will probably have to sue him in a Nevada court.

Russ

<< <i>Here's a rare 1955 double die observe cent which I've conservatively graded Very Fine 20 >>



The seller graded the coin VF20, and you thought it was an MS64RB, shot MS65? In addition, you bought a key date raw coin based on terrible images that show very little detail.

If the seller knew the coin was counterfeit, (which I find likely since he used fuzzy images), he is indeed a scumbag. However, you are also culpable and need to accept some responsibility for your own actions.

Russ, NCNE

cdan12

There was a third image in the auction that was very clear,but is no longer coming up on the site,in it the coin looked mint state, in hand the coin looked uncleaned and and ms-64rb, I am not an expert but I have several coins that are graded and this looked better than some ms-65's I have except for the reverse where the strike was not as good.I have contacted the n. las vegas P.D and I think they will be able to help. I also filed a fraud complaint with the usps,ebay and will contact the Nevada attorney general if the local P.D can't help, thanks for all of your suggestions.

Shamika

Sounds like a case for small claims court. Don't give up without a fight.

coinguy1

Cdan12, have you tried contacting the seller by phone to settle this amicably? If not, I would urge you to do so and politely but firmly let him know his not-so-pleasant alternatives.

cdan12

I have tried to call several times, I either get a busy signal or a recorder,his answer to my email stated his intentions and they were not honorable, stated in no uncertain terms that he wasn't going to cooperate."Unfortunely we cannot accept returns after 7 days and in the original packaging. I'm sorry,but we were confident this was a genuinel coin, and after this amount of time we can not honor returns,sorry Kevin. "

riverman

Isn't there a 1955 Poor Man's DDO Lincoln cent? This is probably a real
Lincoln Cent minted by the U.S. Mint in 1955. How can it be counterfeit?
It just isn't the major league DDO cent that he was hoping for.

zzzz

I agree with Russ ..

IMHO .. You were seeing big bucks in the coin ..
It was a "RAW" coin ...

"IF " the coin came back a 64 or 65 would you be sending the seller some more money ??? I think not ....

You played the "RAW" game and got beat ... Unless, he admits he knew it was not genuine you don't have a leg to stand on.

Too bad, but, I hope YOU learned a lesson ..

coinguy1

<< <i>"IF " the coin came back a 64 or 65 would you be sending the seller some more money ??? I think not .... >>

That is not really fair or relevant to this situation.

While it is a given that a buyer can certainly win or lose, based upon a coin's condition, at the minimum, he is entitled to a genuine coin.

MICHAELDIXON

How can it be counterfeit?
.
The 1955 double die is currently being counterfeited with lasers! I saw one which looked very good, but didn't have the die marking on the reverse. I questioned the authenticity and when the collector took it to the ANACS booth for a free appraisal, the grader told him it was a lasered counterfeit. In the past year, I have seen 2 counterfeits and the 55/55 is very prevelant in counterfeits. I would be afraid to purchase one in a third tier holder.

Russ

Coppercoins has an excellent page about counterfeit '55 DDO's.

Russ, NCNE