Newbie with a few coin questions? Picture Added

JDJ28

Hello,

I have been watching this board for a few months and I have learned a great deal about coins. I just recently was given my grandfathers coin collection and I am currently inventoring and sorting through his coins. I think that coin collecting is something that I could really get into, but it is very expensive. My questions are:

1. Why are most raw coins on E-bay overgraded? I cannot afford many encapsulated coins, but I have already been burned with the first couple of e-bay purchases that I have made. I even received an e-mail from my first sale of coins, and the buyer told me that I was undergraded my coins. He said that most sellers on ebay overgrade by one or two grades when selling on e-bay, and that even though he was happy I was losing money by being too honest. BTW, my ebay ID is JDJ26.

2. Why is it so expensive to have coins graded? I have many baseball cards that I have had graded for about $10, but having coins graded is so much more expensive. Of course, once the coins are graded the price appears to shoot up greatly.

3. Why is toning so important to coin value? My grandfather has many coins that have toning from being in holders for many years, but I actually think that blast-white Morgan dollars are nicer looking then rainbow morgan dollars. Can't people artifically tone coins.

4. I have two books about coin graded. One is the Blackbook to United States Coins 2005 and the other is a book was my Grandfather's from 1962 called a guide to the grading of United States Coins by Martin Brown and John Dunn. It second book is dated but it has pictures. Are their better books to coin grading? I seem to be undergraded my coins. Is coin grading really just up to everyone's personal opinion?

5. How prevalent is copies and counterfeit coins on Ebay? I was thinking about starting my collections by getting one example of each type of coin, but I was looking at Trade Dollars and it was very discouraging. Some sellers claimed that their coins might be counterfeit, but they didn't know and other said they had copies. Are authentic Trade Dollars really that hard to find.

6. My last question is for a coin a found in my change last week? I have been researching and it appears to be a Lamination error, but I am not sure. It is a Roosevelt Dime. It reverse is normal, but the observe is sunken in and there is only a mirror? image of a Roosevelt Dime. Does anyone know what this is?

I have many more questions, but I think that I will stop here.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

hamiltonjh

welcome!

1. unscrupulous sellers tryin to get more $$
2. I didn't think it's really expensive
3. some people will pay more for a toned coin, as a premium. To some collectors, toning approves eye appeal
4. I am not good at grading, there are better books probably. Ill let the experts handle that
5. Trade dollars from China...keep away
6. not sure from your explination. can you post a pic?

FatMan

Here's a Big Fat Welcome to ya!

Falcons game is on so I don't have time to answer questions. Commercial just ended. See ya later.

hamiltonjh

<< <i>Falcons game is on so I don't have time to answer questions. Commercial just ended. See ya later. >>




thanks for stopping by!!

prooflike

Welcome!

Russ

1. There are crooks in every business. Coins are no exception.

2. Baseball cards cost $10, modern coins cost $12. Not much of a price difference.

3. Supply and demand. Blast white Morgans are common as dirt. Truly beautifully rainbow toned Morgans are not.

4. Get a copy of the PCGS book on grading. I personally think it's the best.

5. NEVER buy something like a Trade Dollar raw - or any key date coin.

6. No clue.

Russ, NCNE

mgoodm3

#6 Brockage? Pictures/scan would be very helpful. So the dime has a normal rev. Is the mirror image of the rev?

DesertRat

1. Why are most raw coins on E-bay overgraded? I cannot afford many encapsulated coins, but I have already been burned with the first couple of e-bay purchases that I have made. I even received an e-mail from my first sale of coins, and the buyer told me that I was undergraded my coins. He said that most sellers on ebay overgrade by one or two grades when selling on e-bay, and that even though he was happy I was losing money by being too honest. BTW, my ebay ID is JDJ26.

Primarily because E-Bay has become a breeding ground for deceit and rip-off artists. Many fledgling collectors don't know any better and read the descriptions and are hooked rather than learning about the coin and determining for themselves if the coin is graded correctly. If you are being honest on E-bay you will be rewarded in the long run with a reputation for such honesty.

2. Why is it so expensive to have coins graded? I have many baseball cards that I have had graded for about $10, but having coins graded is so much more expensive. Of course, once the coins are graded the price appears to shoot up greatly.

It is only expensive in relative terms. If you are sending a coin with a highest potential graded value of say $12 then paying the grading fee is not wise. Likewise you wouldn't send in a $3.00 value sports card to be graded if the grading cost $10. If, however you have a coin that when graded and slabbed will bring high dollars on the market the money is well spent. You will see many people here say "buy the coin, not the holder" and that is sound advice. Many people prefer raw coins over slabbed. It is all a matter of preference.


3. Why is toning so important to coin value? My grandfather has many coins that have toning from being in holders for many years, but I actually think that blast-white Morgan dollars are nicer looking then rainbow morgan dollars. Can't people artifically tone coins.

Toning is only important if you like toned coins and is only important to value of you are a collector of toned coins. If you like blast white coins then obviously you wouldn't be willing to pay any premium for a "tarnished" coin. It is all in how you view each individual coin. Yes there are many many AT coins out there unfortunately.

4. I have two books about coin graded. One is the Blackbook to United States Coins 2005 and the other is a book was my Grandfather's from 1962 called a guide to the grading of United States Coins by Martin Brown and John Dunn. It second book is dated but it has pictures. Are their better books to coin grading? I seem to be undergraded my coins. Is coin grading really just up to everyone's personal opinion?

I would suggest buying PCGS's "Official Guide to Coin Grading and Counterfeit Detection." You can also get it free still I believe, with a subscription to CU. Best advice I can give on grading is read the forums, loo at the coins displayed in posts, read the "Guess the grade" posts and look at a lot of coins. the book will help greatly as well. Grading is very opinionated but there is definitely a set of standards to go by.

5. How prevalent is copies and counterfeit coins on Ebay? I was thinking about starting my collections by getting one example of each type of coin, but I was looking at Trade Dollars and it was very discouraging. Some sellers claimed that their coins might be counterfeit, but they didn't know and other said they had copies. Are authentic Trade Dollars really that hard to find.

E-bay is a pit of deception intermixed with some very reputable people. Rule of thumb - if it looks to good to be true, sounds to good to be true or they are making claims about it "might be fake" then it is probaly too good to be true and fake. Best advice I can give you is education education education! Learn what you are looking at before you spend a penny. (advice I should have taken in the past!)

6. My last question is for a coin a found in my change last week? I have been researching and it appears to be a Lamination error, but I am not sure. It is a Roosevelt Dime. It reverse is normal, but the observe is sunken in and there is only a mirror? image of a Roosevelt Dime. Does anyone know what this is?

This wuld be easier to answer if you can post a scan or picture for everyone to see here. If you aren't sure how to do this just do a search on the topic "posting pics".

Once again welcome to the forums!! It's a lot of fun and educational as well.

ms71

Welcome aboard!

NumisOxide

Welcome

kranky

Welcome, and there have been good answers provided so far. I want to talk about this question:


<< <i>Is coin grading really just up to everyone's personal opinion? >>



Unfortunately, the answer is yes and no.

Circulated coins are easy to grade using a book that has photos. The ANA Grading book would be helpful. There is usually little controversy with grading circulated coins, but the criteria is a bit fuzzier in the AU grades.

Uncirculated coins is where the challenge is. The differences between grades are very, very slight. They are also subjective, because it's not a question of wear. For example, what does "two or three minor marks in non-prime focal areas" mean? What is "minor"? It's subjective. Just consider the criteria that go into determining the grade: luster, strike, surface marks, and eye appeal. There is a lot of room for opinion there. Probably 20% of all Uncirculated coins are "liners" - they can be on the line between grades.

So if you take the combination of very slight differences between MS (Uncirculated) grades, the potentially very high dollar value difference from one grade to the next, and subjective criteria, and you are going to have differences of opinion. However, the major grading services do a very good job of grading coins, which is why their products are widely accepted. Since you've been here for a few months, you've no doubt seen that sometimes people can crack a graded coin out of the holder and send it back in, and it comes back a grade higher. While that happens, it's not true for all coins. A particular coin may be a rock-solid 65 grade and never be considered a grade higher or lower.

Grading MS coins is a learning process, and no book can truly teach you how. You need to look at lots of MS coins.

On a different topic, coin collecting does not have to be "very expensive". It certainly can be, but you can enjoy this hobby without spending a lot of money. You can also enjoy it without ever sending in a single coin to be graded. If you are concerned about selling, then you may want to get certain coins graded in order to potentially improve their resale value. But if you aren't selling, you really don't need to submit coins.

TonedCoinTrader

JDJ28

Hello,

Thanks for the advice. It has been very helpful. I have attempted to attach a scan of the Roosevelt Dime that I was asking about. I hope that it works.

billboat

Get a copy of the RedBook, keep reading this board and ask a lot of questions!! You can enjoy collecting without spending a lot of $$.

fountainheadgold

Bunker

Nice Icon by the way...

Wolf359

Welcome.

GoldCoinLover

<< <i>Hello,

I have been watching this board for a few months and I have learned a great deal about coins. I just recently was given my grandfathers coin collection and I am currently inventoring and sorting through his coins. I think that coin collecting is something that I could really get into, but it is very expensive. My questions are:

1. Why are most raw coins on E-bay overgraded? I cannot afford many encapsulated coins, but I have already been burned with the first couple of e-bay purchases that I have made. I even received an e-mail from my first sale of coins, and the buyer told me that I was undergraded my coins. He said that most sellers on ebay overgrade by one or two grades when selling on e-bay, and that even though he was happy I was losing money by being too honest. BTW, my ebay ID is JDJ26.

2. Why is it so expensive to have coins graded? I have many baseball cards that I have had graded for about $10, but having coins graded is so much more expensive. Of course, once the coins are graded the price appears to shoot up greatly.

3. Why is toning so important to coin value? My grandfather has many coins that have toning from being in holders for many years, but I actually think that blast-white Morgan dollars are nicer looking then rainbow morgan dollars. Can't people artifically tone coins.

4. I have two books about coin graded. One is the Blackbook to United States Coins 2005 and the other is a book was my Grandfather's from 1962 called a guide to the grading of United States Coins by Martin Brown and John Dunn. It second book is dated but it has pictures. Are their better books to coin grading? I seem to be undergraded my coins. Is coin grading really just up to everyone's personal opinion?

5. How prevalent is copies and counterfeit coins on Ebay? I was thinking about starting my collections by getting one example of each type of coin, but I was looking at Trade Dollars and it was very discouraging. Some sellers claimed that their coins might be counterfeit, but they didn't know and other said they had copies. Are authentic Trade Dollars really that hard to find.

6. My last question is for a coin a found in my change last week? I have been researching and it appears to be a Lamination error, but I am not sure. It is a Roosevelt Dime. It reverse is normal, but the observe is sunken in and there is only a mirror? image of a Roosevelt Dime. Does anyone know what this is?

I have many more questions, but I think that I will stop here.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. >>




1.) I recommend not buying any raw coins off eBay. People overgrade their coins for one reason: More money. I don't think your overgrading, I think THEY are overgrading. Most newbies seem to OVERgrade, not undergrade anyway. Your alot safer buying slabbed coins off eBay, but remember this rule (especially on eBay!): "If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is."

2.) Coins have more value over baseball cards or other collectible items for a reason: Their instrinsic value, or the value of their metal. This is only one of the reasons..
Overtime, a baseball card can lose value rapidly, or slowly. On coins the same thing can happen, except on silver and gold coins (gold especially) no matter how much the "collectors" or "numismatic" the item loses, it is still worth its weight in gold. Also, different services charge different prices.
PCGS and NGC charges the most, and these are also the best. Most people rate PCGS as #1, and NGC as #2. A cheaper but nearly as reliable grading service is ANACS. They are sometimes looser on their grades, but they also have an advantage: They are cheaper, plus they are better at varieties and errors some would say, also they grade and encapsule "problem" coins. (i.e a coin with a large scratch, or problem in which NGC and PCGS would not encapsule or slab).


3.) People like toning. That is, naturally toned coins or NT toning. Artificial toning, or AT toning is when a coin "doctor" tries to make these hues of colour that a coin exhibits naturally though many of years of storage. When a coin doctor tries to imitate the effect, it takes only a day or so, and most of the time the toning is not as attractive. However, some coin doctors manage to do it very well and it's deceptive. Some of the NT and AT coins are almost impossible to tell apart! But to get down to it, people just like colorfully toned coins because of the range and beautiful hues nature produces.

4.) Don't let eBay scammers fool you. I doubt your overgrading your coins; (No offence, but he may be just one of the tons of ebay scammers trying to make YOU sound good for an excuse for him to take your money..so becareful). Perhaps your grading is correct. Grading is regarded by most people as 2 parts. It's part science, and part opinion. Of course, if two people try to agree on a coin, chances are they WILL disagree to an extent. The reason for this is there is no boundry between "slightly" or "a bit" between two or more people. The science of it is 2 or more people to agree to closely the same grade, despite opinional differences.


5.) Counterfeits are mostly only heavily prevailent on eBay if the coin is raw, and there are lots of them. Of course, most people are honest. But there are also alot of scammers out there. Some of the sellers will try to sell a bottom service grading service slab like ACG or NTC with a high grade and brag about how its work the value expontially from what their starting price is. Of course it isn't; or the seller wouldn't be making money. The reason for this is the very bottom grading services (or TPG's) don't grade their coins properly on purpose; for the customer to feel happy and submit more coins; thus them making more money from the customer.


6) It may be an error. Some person had a roosie dime that the back of the dime seemed to have the imprint of a lincoln cent on the reverse (or back, of the coin). At first a few people thought it was a geniune error, but then they thought it was just a coin alterer who took a 1 cent piece and put it on top of the dime. Then he hammered the relief of the lincoln cent on top of the relief of the dime. This created an imprint on the dime, thus making it look like an error. Also, if you looked at this paticular coin, part of the letters around the coin were damaged, probably because of this act.


Hope this helps! Feel free to Private message me anytime.

richbeat

Welcome aboard!

cladking

The Roosevelt dime sounds like a legitimate error if the second side is also
a reverse. These are caused by a capped die which is an already struck coin
adhering to the obverse die. New planchets fed into the chamber will appear
to have a normal reverse but the opposite side will be struck from the die cap
rather than the die. The design on the die cap will expand with each strike
and become faint. Eventually it will become so thin that the obverse detail
will begin to be seen.

It's a very nice error.

BowTieCoins

Katrina

Conder101

The Roosevelt looks like it might be a legitimite error, the picture is too small to realy tell. It looks like it may be struck through a very late stage capped die where the obverse design is now showing through again.