How many of our 14,000 plus members here belong to the BHNC?
GOLDSAINT
Posts: 2,148 ✭
Bust half dollars have always been my personal favorite series. In reading the Bust Half Nut website it says, that to be a member you must have 100 different die marriage coins that are verified by one of the current members.
Who of our PCGS group is a member?
Who can give us some information on how many members the club has, how they like the club, what benefits the club offers to its members, etc.
0
Comments
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I'll keep at it though
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I'm not a member of BHNC, but I am only 98 varieties away from that requirement.
The members tend to be somewhat less than fully open about the club's activities. It is intended to be an exclusive organization, after all. Frankly, the 100-marriage requirement is not a major hindrance to what they consider a "serious" collector, being only 22% of the known varieties. It's almost easy if only you have the cash.
Knowing some of the members, and the way die marriage collectors in general, you would probably not be able to "buy yourself in" with the purchase of a large collection. You must really know the coins. They will spot a poser in a second. I'm not saying they're unpleasant or malicious, just certain of the type of collector they wish to associate with. Most of them are really great guys. You will see a number of them here or at my site from time to time.
At present, they are all in Pittsburgh for the meetings (BHNC,JRCS,BQCS) and "socials", so you may not get an answer right away. If you don't, let me know and I'll pass your interest along to someone in the group.
Cool Things
Bust Coin Forum
Jim
42/92
yes, it is a somewhat reclusive little club. get your 100 dm's, then we'll talk.
K S
He feels that their requirement is justified because the club is very open with information to members, to the point where security issues matter.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
what's a die marriage? what happens if the dies split up?
I have posted some info. at the bottom that one other member here posted the other day.
“The club is suppose to be secretive and not readily share information beyond the membership”
“He feels that their requirement is justified because the club is very open with information to members, to the point where security issues matter.”
As far as the above comments go, my opinion is it’s their club, and they can set whatever rules they like.
It’s a private club not a business. In fact who would want to join an organization that just shared everything with the public. It sounds like a great group, who are there to help their members gain some edge on the outside collectors in this series.
The only thing that I am concerned with, if I can get ready to apply for membership, is finding a Virgin for the blood oath.
Seriously, so many of the coins in this area have such high rarity numbers, I think it would be of great benefit to belong to a group that would help give you information and alerts on coins that come to market. I wonder if they offer their coins to other members first if they are selling?
It still does not seem like there are many members here, considering the large group of people on the forum. I wonder if Nysoto, or Tahoe Dale are in this club, actually Baley I thought you would be. Tahoe Dale may not have the largest collection of Busts in the U.S. but I am sure he is way over the minimum, he has the number one PCGS and NGC registries.
“It walked off the next morning while I was at work”
Okbustchaser,
You have got to be kidding me! I cannot think of a more disastrous story than having your collection stolen, and having to start over. Man you have a stronger heart than I. I am not sure I could do that.
Personally I would love to hear the rest of your story if you would like to share it.
As an interesting side to this post I talked to an old dealer friend of mine a few weeks ago that got out of the business several years ago. I ask him why he had not jumped back in to this hot market.
His response shocked me. He said that it was way to dangerous for him. He related several stories of how he knew 4 guys that got killed by thieves, and many collectors and dealers that had their homes raided, or had been held up in gang type raids in their cars, and hotels. He said he had just gotten too old to try to defend him self. WOW!
The Bust Half Nut Club, BHNC, was established in the late 1960s as a group dedicated to collecting, studying, and sharing information among fellow members about Bust Half Dollars attributed by Overton die marriage. The primary focus over the years has been on Capped Bust Half Dollars (1807-1836). However, an increasing number of members are also keenly interested in the pre-Turban Half Dollars (1794-1807). In addition, the study of die states is quite popular.
For anyone interested in the club, the BHNC holds general meetings at the annual summer ANA convention and also at the annual FUN (Florida United Numismatists) convention. The club members present are always glad to meet with and encourage budding collectors or seasoned numismatists who are either developing an interest in the early U.S. halves or who are looking to delve more deeply into this challenging series.
To be considered as a candidate for BHNC membership, an individual must own a minimum of 100 different Bust die marriages by Overton attribution, should be genuinely interested in obtaining new die marriages for their set, and must be sponsored by a current member who has verified the attributions and grades on their application.
K6az,
I don’t know that much about this group that’s why I posted this thread, but I see no reason for a private group of collectors that share interests in one particular coin series to feel any responsibility to educate the general collecting community. Since all of these people spend huge amounts of time, effort, and money building their sets, as well as finding very rare issues, why should they NOT keep their information away from, say type collectors?
In the real World here, all of us are on this board to gain some information so that we can out perform other collectors/dealers. Aren’t we all looking for the “knowledge is power” thing?
Aren’t there other clubs of Dollar collectors, or Gold collectors, Dime collectors, which have PRIVATE clubs that operate strictly to the benefit of their members?
As I said, why join a club that publishes everything they learn, to the public. That’s not a club!
In addition to that, like most hardcore collectors of any series, most of the fine details of any NUT collector would bore most people to tears.
Here is a good example, I have a Bust half in my Registry set at NGC that is an 1830.
This coin is O-119; NGC slabbed this coin as O-119, and marked it as an 1830 small O.
This coin is not a small O it is a medium O, and if you look on page 492 of Overton’s book it says MEDIUM O. In the 1830 there is a Large O, a small O, and a Medium O.
Why the TPGC’s cannot get this right amazes me. That’s like them saying forget about Micro O’s, all mint mark O’s are he same.
See that’s why there are clubs!
It seems to me that most of the Bust guys that post here are very open, and so far in two days not a single BHNC person has checked in.
We still don’t know how many members there are?
It could be that there are not that many out there, or perhaps they just don’t frequent the TPG forums, since it is very hard to get 100 different Bust halves in slabs. Maybe that they are so far ahead of everyone here in this particular area, and that’s all they care about, why come here? Perhaps it’s so secret that they take an oath not to tell who they are?
I really thought that that with 14,000 plus members here 1% might be BHNC members, but surely if there were 140 club members someone would have chimed in.
Yes it did I will PM him.
<< <i>“I guess the Bust guys are a different breed.”
It seems to me that most of the Bust guys that post here are very open, and so far in two days not a single BHNC person has checked in.
We still don’t know how many members there are?
It could be that there are not that many out there, or perhaps they just don’t frequent the TPG forums, since it is very hard to get 100 different Bust halves in slabs. Maybe that they are so far ahead of everyone here in this particular area, and that’s all they care about, why come here? Perhaps it’s so secret that they take an oath not to tell who they are? >>
<< <i>Here is a good example, I have a Bust half in my Registry set at NGC that is an 1830.
This coin is O-119; NGC slabbed this coin as O-119, and marked it as an 1830 small O.
This coin is not a small O it is a medium O, and if you look on page 492 of Overton’s book it says MEDIUM O. In the 1830 there is a Large O, a small O, and a Medium O.
Why the TPGC’s cannot get this right amazes me. >>
I would say that aproximately one out of every 50 NGC attributated bust halves I have seen were improperly attributed. ANACS is better but not by a whole lot. This is a perfect example of why most advanced bust collectors are anti=slab. That and the fact the TGP's can't (actually won't) properly grade a piece but insist on grading based on price not condition.
As for the exclusivity of the organization, I have found that the members I have met are very open and willing to share their knowledge about bust coins with other collectors...just not info about individual members or their collections. This is a security issue I agree with.
<< <i> As for the exclusivity of the organization, I have found that the members I have met are very open and willing to share their knowledge about bust coins with other collectors...just not info about individual members or their collections. This is a security issue I agree with. >>
This is a very fair assesment. As I understand it, the meetings are much more social that anything else, with members bringing much of their collections with them. The total numbers of generally high-end or excessively rare bust half dollars could easily reach into the many thousands. They MUST have some sense of security.
Likewise, while at their events, they probably do not wish the distraction of dealing with newbies. By restricting membership they establish a system whereby everybody is at the same high level of expertise. This is a great benefit to the buying and trading of expensive coins, which probably happens with great frequency. It also tends to centralize the available rare marriages into one location so members will have greater access to good varieties.
Outside of the group events, I have never known a BHNCer refuse to answer questions about bust half dollars. In fact, they usually gush with information past the point where I've lost interest. Then, they sit patiently and politely while I talk about the dimes.
Cool Things
Bust Coin Forum
Edited to add: For the rest of us I recommend joining the JRCS if you're interested in Bust coinage.
I wonder how they figure out who is a dealer, half the people on here buy and sell, use Ebay etc.
Placid, who did a great deal of research on the registries, says that many of the coins in the registries are, label rip offs, borrowed labels, labels kept from crackouts, items that have been sold etc.
That brings up another question, what happens in cases like the Tidwell’s who just sold everything at Sheridian’s, hope I got those names correct.
Still no PM from Karl so perhaps he is not a member?
Still lots of questions and NO members, perhaps they are at the ANA show buying up Bust halves?
I wonder if they ever try to corner the market in certain rare issues to push the prices, that would be fun and interesting.
Maybe there are some angry X members out there that want to spill the beans?
As for me, I am at 84 coins, different dates and types, and could be at 100 by some time next year.
O.K. Pre Turb,
You got in just before my last post.
Can you please give us some specifics here?
How do you get your coins verified?
Are dealers allowed in?
How is it determined if you are a dealer?
Are there any specific agendas, or is this just an educational group?
Is there a sales board for members to sell to each other to keep rarer issues in the group?
Please add what ever you can.
The 100 die marriage requirement shows dedication to the series, as everthing is shared such as home addresses and phone numbers, along with the census of member's coins. Much of the information is provided to collectors through publications such as the JRCS journal, along with many other publications without the author's disclosure of their membership.
The friendships and commraderie among the BHNC members is amazing. Turnover is extremely low, most members are there for life, as I will be. The club is a great deal of fun.
The BHNC published updates to the Overton book in 1981 and 1987, and the 1990 Overton 3rd edition is essentially a BHNC update. The club releases periodic rarity ratings changes to the public, as they did this week at the ANA. Some members publish price realized data, which combined with the rarity ratings, provide collectors with accurate market information for pricing of bust halves. Most major studies are released to the public, and I don't know of any reluctance to share info with collectors - except member names and their collections. Most major collections are sold through Sheridan Downey or the large auction firms, with all collectors having a chance for most rarities.
The BHNC has an open meeting at the ANA convention, and members tend to congregate at Sheridan's table - they will be happy to talk bust halves. The emphasis is on the study of die marriages, grade and condition is not as important.
I hope some of the other board members can join, it is a great club. PM for more info, I will be gone another week. Vacation!
People who have read what I write on these boards know that I am not a "condition snob," but I do respect quality and eye appeal. To me a collector who puts together a collection of 50 to 60 really attractive Bust Half varieties in say VF to AU condition is a lot more of a collector that some one who puts together a pile of lower grade and damaged stuff just to reach arbitrary goal of 100 pieces.
The Early American Coppers Club EAC has a similar situation where members share knowledge. They don't have a number of varieties requirment.
<< <i>How many of our 14,000 plus members here belong to the BHNC >>
What 14,000 members? There are only 28 members here. The other 13,972 are alternate ID's.
-YN Currently Collecting & Researching Colonial World Coins, Especially Spanish Coins, With a Great Interest in WWII Militaria.
My Ebay!
Nysoto,
Thanks for clearing up some of these issues.
Bill,
I am sure the condition of the coins you collect are up to each collector, yes ther may be BHNC members that collect worn out coins as that is all they can afford.
Lord M,
You may be right, but I think there has to be at least a hundred of us?
John,
You can buy the third Overton addition on Ebay, Amazon, or from many other internet booksellers.
K S
No a big collection does not necessarly mean that you know a lot. Although in Bust haves it can a good indicator.
Cool Things
Bust Coin Forum
Ken
The club was very helpful in analyzing a certain interesting half dollar i had..
Even though I don't have 100 different marriages yet (only half way there or so at present) Nysoto and half a dozen other "founder" type BHNC members that I met at Long Beach expressed open communication about early halves and their minting, rarity, and pricing.
Steve Herrman puts out a semi-annual update of Auction and Mail Bid Prices Realized for Redbook varieties as well as all R4 and better varieties of the flowing, capped, and draped half dollars. This book is available through Sheridan Downey for $22.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
(you know who i'm referring to)
K S
In a submittal in the spring one of the coins sent to them to certify was an 1830 O-119.
This coin is listed in the new 3rd addition on page 492 as an 1830 Medium O.
NGC slabbed the coin correctly as a VF 30 O-119, but marked it as a small O.
In the last few days I have been discussing this listing with them, and have ask them if they could add the correct category as an 1830 O-119 Medium O.
I am sure it will take a few days to get a response but what does the BHNC think about this issue. Is this a NON item, or should the Medium O’s have its own listing?
By the way this is not a rare issue, and is classed as an R1 so this is an easy coin to add to ones collection.
the actual research value of a bust-half registry by overton variety at ngc would pale in comparison to the club's census, imo.
K S
Karl,
Is this census report available to other collectors or is it an internal report?
extremely valuable information, if you truly love bust halves.
K S
Thanks Bill,
Where can we get one of those issues?