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Respect for the modern collectors

I don't collect modern coins at all but sure do have a lot of respect for the time and dedicaion some of these collectors put into looking for and making pop top coins. I think some of these collectors really have gained some knowledge and grading expertise not available to us guys collecting the old stuff. We are told over and over not to buy coins not slabbed. THat is fine and dandy, but I am willing to bet that the people slabbing the moderns themselves are learning a great deal more about what it takes to make the grade on their series of expertise.

It has to be a heck of rush when you get your grades and see that you got a god one. image

I don't plan on getting into this area of collecting, but sure can appreciate why you others are having so much fun with it. There seems to be a lot of bashing of these collectors, but they sound cool to me!!

Jay
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Comments

  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>It has to be a heck of rush when you get your grades and see that you got a god one. >>



    It is, indeed! The hunt, the kill, the score. I just wish Don, Ken, Marty, Joe and the rest would switch to classics. image

    Russ, NCNE
  • DHeathDHeath Posts: 8,472 ✭✭✭
    Jay,

    That's a great sentiment.
    Developing theory is what we are meant to do as academic researchers
    and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
  • StuartStuart Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have respect for all other coin collectors, and am very pleased for the diversity of collecting types that we have in the hobby because I feel that it enriches all of us.

    Stuart

    Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

    "Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
  • One of the reasons I like collecting moderns...

    I hate to look back and see all of the valuable coins I missed out on in my lifetime. I'm sure every coin collector/dealer wished their granparents had this same mentality. image
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,964 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'd say that collectors of modern coins need to have more respect for others people's opinion. When I write that I feel that a modern is overpriced, you can bet that there will a slew of dealers and collectors who specialize in modern coins who will craw down my throat.

    Just look at what happened when that overblown, overpriced 1963 Proof – 70, ultra cameo cent went on the market. Its defenders were crawling out of the woodwork when there was nothing there to defend. The coin was spotted and deteriorating, and it no longer qualified for the PR-70 grade. And even if it had qualified for the grade it would have been hard to justify a $39,000 price tag for it. PCGS bought back the coin, which proved that the critics were right.

    Yet if I write that the price of a so-called classic is too high, I might get one or two dissenters if any. Could it be that some modern coin advocates have a turf to defend that is on shaky ground? Why do you feel so duty bound to defend EVERY record breaking modern coin transaction? We all make mistakes, and people who are new to the hobby usually make more than their share.

    I have no problem with any coin that is genuine. BUT I do question the prices that people sometimes.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Just look at what happened when that overblown, overpriced 1963 Proof – 70, ultra cameo cent went on the market. Its defenders were crawling out of the woodwork >>



    I guess I missed all those "defenders" of that coin. All I saw was near universal agreement that it was a POS. Of course, it is an excellent example of why all high grade high value moderns are junk and only a fool would buy them.

    Russ, NCNE
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,964 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I guess I missed all those "defenders" of that coin. All I saw was near universal agreement that it was a POS. Of course, it is an excellent example of why all high grade high value moderns are junk and only a fool would buy them.

    Russ, NCNE >>



    << <i>

    Come on Russ! You can do better than this! The last thread on that coin, which was before the most recent FUN show when it was put up for auction was full of people who swore that $39K was not an outrageous price for that coin. Why is it so hard for collectors of modern coins to show some objectivity in public?



    << <i>it is an excellent example of why all high grade high value moderns are junk and only a fool would buy them. >>



    In the immortal words of Ronald Reagan, "There you go again!" I’ve never written that. I’ve only said that some things seemed to have brought very high prices that might not stand the test of time.

    Please don’t words in my mouth. I don’t put them in your mouth, and it’s only fair to ask for a similar bit of courtesy.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Come on Russ! You can do better than this! The last thread on that coin, which was before the most recent FUN show when it was put up for auction was full of people who swore that $39K was not an outrageous price for that coin. >>



    Name one and quote them. Just one will do.



    << <i>Why is it so hard for collectors of modern coins to show some objectivity in public? >>



    You, of course, define "objectivity" as agreeing with your condemnation of high-grade moderns and the amount of money some pay for them.

    A little over a year ago there was a 1967 PCGS MS67DCAM SMS Kennedy that sold on eBay for a bit over $700. At the time, the coins were bringing about $600. After that sale, there were plenty of modern bashers saying how stupid it was to pay that kind of money. Guess what they are averaging this year? Hint: A hell of a lot more.

    Most of last year, a 1964 proof in 69CAM could be had for about $100. Guess what they're going for this year? Hint: A hell of a lot more.

    It was over a year between sales of the 1965 SMS Kennedy in MS66DCAM. The last sale brought over $3000. The sale before that? Hint: A hell of a lot less.

    I could name example after example of coins that were selling for "foolish" money yesterday and are selling for even more "foolish" money today. And, that's just in what I collect. I'm sure there are others who can do the same in other series.

    Did it ever occur to you that some moderns can sell for good money one day, and actually sell for more the next? Happens all the time. You simply don't realize it because you're not involved in the market and base your opinions on a few isolated well-publicized examples.

    Russ, NCNE
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,649 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I'd say that collectors of modern coins need to have more respect for others people's opinion. When I write that I feel that a modern is overpriced, you can bet that there will a slew of dealers and collectors who specialize in modern coins who will craw down my throat.

    Just look at what happened when that overblown, overpriced 1963 Proof – 70, ultra cameo cent went on the market. Its defenders were crawling out of the woodwork when there was nothing there to defend. The coin was spotted and deteriorating, and it no longer qualified for the PR-70 grade. And even if it had qualified for the grade it would have been hard to justify a $39,000 price tag for it. PCGS bought back the coin, which proved that the critics were right.

    Yet if I write that the price of a so-called classic is too high, I might get one or two dissenters if any. Could it be that some modern coin advocates have a turf to defend that is on shaky ground? Why do you feel so duty bound to defend EVERY record breaking modern coin transaction? We all make mistakes, and people who are new to the hobby usually make more than their share.

    I have no problem with any coin that is genuine. BUT I do question the prices that people sometimes. >>




    BillJones: With all due respect, I'm with Russ, I don't remember one single post by anyone
    claiming that the '63 cent was really a PR-70 or that it was worth the expected price. What I
    remember were a lot of posts elaborating on how no modern could ever be worth much more
    than face value and that people who paid "moon money" for moderns were fools who allowed
    themselves to be taken by crooks who sold moderns. Of course much of this is mere perception
    and is hopefully in the past in any case.

    While I am a modern coin advocate and certainly do have turf to defend, I don't believe there's
    anything whatsoever that isn't rock solid. While I'm one of the first to defend moderns, I have
    never defended any modern that was attacked on the basis of its percieved value. I have de-
    fended several coins from what I felt were unfair attacks based on feelings and a general dis-
    like for moderns by many hobby participants.

    Certainly if you feel a coin is over or under priced there is no reason not to say so. There are
    many new and advanced collectors who can benefit from your years of experience and know-
    ledge. I doubt anyone on these boards desires to stifle any discussion about coins. What many
    find a problem is the bashing which used to be so common and seems these last few weeks to
    be growing again. This is the non-productive slamming of something just because they don't like
    it. It is the few words comments that moderns can never be worth more than face. It is the un-
    substantiated comment that a modern which just sold for a lot of money is common. It is any of
    the hit and run posts which make derogatory comments about moderns or their dealers, collectors,
    and researchers. These posters usually just evaporate after the fact but always show up to make
    the same comments in another thread. Anyone who makes any comment owes it to himself and
    this board to at the very least read and try to understand the responce. He needn't comment
    whether he agrees or not, but it is his duty to follow up and this goes double when his comments
    are derogatory or inflammatory.

    It seems apparent that most hobbyists are never going to like moderns and this really is no
    problem. Nor is it a problem when they make statements to this effect. But when unfounded
    charges are leveled they have to expect to hear other opinions which might differ substantially
    from their own.
    Tempus fugit.
  • FatManFatMan Posts: 8,977
    In the great US Coin Forum tradition, what started as a "Hugfest" quickly becomes a "Slugfest". Hey BillJones, sometimes you just have to let one go. I just can't find anywhere in this thread prior to your post that even touches on prices of moderns. I see a thread about collectors' dedication, learning, and grading skills. So why interject your view on prices?

    Jay, great observations. I see you recognize the reason these collectors are in search of Moderns.....because they "are having so much fun with it"

    Great Post.
  • You rock Jay!!

    From a modern lover!!
    Right back at you with what ever it is your into, LOL!
    Thanks for the support!!
    Katrina
  • jcpingjcping Posts: 2,649 ✭✭✭
    Whenever there is a modern thread, there is at least a modern basher. Why can't folks mutual respect each other image
    an SLQ and Ike dollars lover

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