<< <i>This challenge is issued to any forum member (myself included) who sometimes finds it easier to...... make fun of, insult, flame or disparage others, than to take the time to help or inform them, answer their questions, steer them in the right direction, etc. This applies, whether or not those "others" be fellow-forum members, Ebayer's, fellow collectors or dealers.
In case anyone reading this is wondering if (or thinking that) I am picking on them, in particular, I am not. This challenge is based upon far-too-many instances I have witnessed, where others have been treated harshly and unfairly. In many, if not most cases, it was because someone apparently found it easier or more enjoyable to insult them, than to take the time to discuss, help, educate, clarify, etc.
I challenge each of us to be better participants here, in whatever ways we can.
I expect to catch some flack for this, but that's ok - I think it's worth the downside. >>
awwwww shudddup! you ain't been flame till the HepKitty scorches you!
Be Bop A Lula!! "Senorita HepKitty" "I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
My main problem with posts like this - and I am not trying to slam Mark because I respect him a lot - is that people need to tell people when they have a problem with what they are saying or how they are acting. Specifically and at the time. General posts just don't do much for me.
Sure, there are hazards in calling people out if they take it the wrong way but, if you do it in a proper manner and then bow out or act properly yourself, the point gets across and no one is left wondering "Does he mean me?" Alternatively, you can PM most people here if you have a problem and that may often diffuse a situation moreso than calling tem out in public. At least it lets them know you don't think their behavior is appropriate.
The point may not always get across and the other person may not change but specifics are better in my mind that vague generalities.
Time sure flies when you don't know what you are doing...
Stujoe, based upon your post, I don't think you and I disagree on this issue.
I have no objection to people being straight forward and specific. In fact, I think that is often a very good thing. For example, you just let me know in a direct (and polite) way, that you saw a potential problem with my "challenge".
I have no issue whatsoever, with that approach. But, if instead of saying what you did, you had said "coinguy1, you should be called idiotguy1 for such a senseless challenge" you would have qualified as one of the people I was trying to reach with this thread.
Since I am new to the forums, I have not yet had the experience of being flamed or trashed. No doubt it will happen someday. When it does, I will try to not reply in kind.
Pointed discussions between persons with different positions on the same issue (without seeing the discussions deteriorate to name calling and other personal attacks) are wonderful. You had better be prepared to provide support for your position and be able to show the weaknesses in the opposing position. Many persons are unwilling or unable to do so. Those who can and who are lucky enough to find others of the same ilk, are in for a treat.
<< <i>Stujoe, based upon your post, I don't think you and I disagree on this issue.
I have no objection to people being straight forward and specific. In fact, I think that is often a very good thing. For example, you just let me know in a direct (and polite) way, that you saw a potential problem with my "challenge".
I have no issue whatsoever, with that approach. But, if instead of saying what you did, you had said "coinguy1, you should be called idiotguy1 for such a senseless challenge" you would have qualified as one of the people I was trying to reach with this thread. >>
It is indeed often all in how one approaches things. It always helps to approach things with a little tact, or maybe a deep breath...or maybe a deep breath and then some tact or vce versa. No matter, a deep breath and tact usually help.
Time sure flies when you don't know what you are doing...
<< <i>who sometimes finds it easier to...... make fun of, insult, flame or disparage others, than to take the time to help or inform them, answer their questions, steer them in the right direction, etc >>
that's human nature, is'nt it? like making fun of the coin posse for example?
<< <i>. This challenge is based upon far-too-many instances I have witnessed, where others have been treated harshly and unfairly. In many, if not most cases, it was because someone apparently found it easier or more enjoyable to insult them, than to take the time to discuss, help, educate, clarify, etc.
I challenge each of us to be better participants here, in whatever ways we can.
I expect to catch some flack for this, but that's ok - I think it's worth the downside. >>
Amen, brother. As I said in another post:
"Fortunately, this isn't a popularity contest. Recently, the flamers were dilligently working to see if they could bait me to cross the line so I would be banned from "their" board. I just let 'em flame away. After awhile, they looked very silly and were self-defeating.
"Say your piece, but be prepared for a barrage. I doubt that there are many statements that could be made here that would not be controversial. The flamers will pick at every word, look for nonexistant nuances, and do their homework. In my case, the even began to look for hidden meanings in my handle (given to me by a 9 year old), used me as a target for lawyer bashing, brought out obscure history ("60 emails to withdraw feedback"--didn't mention that 55 of 'em were ebay forms), and used every trick in the book to bait me. Best of all, several said they would block me as an Ebay bidder (I hope they did so), which I see as a big plus because I wouldn't want to do business with them if they were the only coin sellers on the planet!"
"I suspect this flamers, who are very good at their trade, drive many good folks into becoming lurkers. Unfortunately, this impedes free speech and discourages open communications. Personally, I don't mind stirring the pot over a hot flame. However, if you can't stand the heat, better get out of the kitchen."
I'll readily admit to stirring the pot to encourage a healthy discourse and probably stepped on some toes in the process. I suggested someone suck an egg, and created a barrage. I quipped "who cares" and had it thrown in my face incessantaly. Someone even started a post to mock me. At first, I thought it was funny. But it evolved into an ugly forum for bashing, with each trying to outdo the last. I learned my lesson, and did not participate after it turned very ugly. I believe the thread was eventually "locked". I'd hazard a guess that the PMs and private emails between the participants contained even more venom and disparaging remarks. I probably should subpeona the traffic (yes, it can be done) for defamatory statements, but would rather take the high road and accept a few apologies.
Like Rodney King queried, "why can't we all just get along"?
I totally agree with the sentiment. Sometimes the facts themselves don't paint a nice picture of another man, however; am I wrong in thinking that's not reason enough to hide the facts?
<< <i>I totally agree with this concept. I almost didn't even join this forum because of the smart buts. >>
I felt the same way Neptune. And now, I've checked out of participating in the forums for a while because of them. I loved participating, being educated by some of the most informed and insightful people in the coin world but getting flamed, trashed or what ever it's called by some of the "smart buts" (not to mention the outright ugly and personally defamitory PM's that follow) makes one pretty leary of getting burned again.
Sure would be nice though, wouldn't it?
Collecting coins, medals and currency featuring "The Sower"
Never take an online forum too seriously. I know I don't. At the end of the day, whether I am praised, flamed or ignored in an onlime forum, my family still loves me and my friends are still willing to go out for a drink with me.
Time sure flies when you don't know what you are doing...
Great. I finally succomb to everyone's encouragement to get involved on these Boards, brush-up on my html code, buy a really nice flame-retardant suit -- only to find that you're changing the environment to a kinder, gentler Forum?
Todd
Todd L. Imhof Partner / Executive VP Heritage Auctions
<< <i>I finally succomb to everyone's encouragement to get involved on these Boards, brush-up on my html code, buy a really nice flame-retardant suit -- only to find that you're changing the environment to a kinder, gentler Forum? >>
<< <i>Great. I finally succomb to everyone's encouragement to get involved on these Boards, brush-up on my html code, buy a really nice flame-retardant suit -- only to find that you're changing the environment to a kinder, gentler Forum?
Todd >>
Welcome to the forums! Make sure it`s a heavy duty flame-retardant suit in case you need it. Avoid the open forum as it would be more appropriate to call it " Welcome to our Nightmare Forum ".
Well put Mark as it`s the way the World & U.S. Coin Forum and Currency Forums should be. Nothing wrong with social aspect but, it`s an educational one too.
<< <i>Great. I finally succomb to everyone's encouragement to get involved on these Boards, brush-up on my html code, buy a really nice flame-retardant suit -- only to find that you're changing the environment to a kinder, gentler Forum?
Todd >>
Hey Todd........ If you should decide you actually need that flame retardant suit I can get you excellent prices through my industrial supply house, with Kevlar lined gloves to match.
BTW.... Welcome to the coin forum. Now go out and find me some purdy Walkers!
If the thread is going to bring out the newbies I'll even restate my often offered position; We all have at least a bit of troll in us and it's up to each of us to keep it down and to help other users restrain their own.
Not that there's anything wrong with pot stirring, but there is with botton pushing. Don't let your troll define the line.
Welcome to the boards, Todd. How about a little background on how you got started in coins?
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
<< <i>Mark, the meanies are all making fun of my PCGS Units post! >>
Stujoe, I think that's deplorable, just as it would be if they were to make fun of you for misspelling the word "the", as in
<< <i>From teh press release.. >>
On a more serious note, I'd like to thank all of you for your replies (even you, Russ) - it's (dare I say?) encouraging to see a non-flame thread receive so many responses. That applies, even if I did just "flame" Stujoe.
In all seriousness, Mark et al., I have been hesitant to respond to this thread. There is often a fine line between a humorous jab (say, between you and Russ) and a mean-sprited attack. Most of the time, the confrontations start rather benignly with a disagreement and a few testosterone surges later, you have a full blown battle. Some people ask for an opinion, and then become offended when your opinion is not in line with theirs. And finally, a very small number of people come to the boards with a nefarious agenda, which needs to be exposed.
I think there are civil ways of handling differences in opinion that do not involve name-calling or threats of lawsuits or bodily harm. That's so high school (no offense to the under 18 crowd). But at the same time, a healthy debate should be encouraged, differences of opinion should be respected, and we should all have as much a sense of humor about things here as possible.
For me this is fun. If it becomes dull and lifeless, I'm outta here.
<< <i>Mark, the meanies are all making fun of my PCGS Units post! >>
Stujoe, I think that's deplorable, just as it would be if they were to make fun of you for misspelling the word "the", as in
<< <i>From teh press release.. >>
On a more serious note, I'd like to thank all of you for your replies (even you, Russ) - it's (dare I say?) encouraging to see a non-flame thread receive so many responses. That applies, even if I did just "flame" Stujoe. >>
Et tu, Brute?!?! Now where am I to turn?
('teh' is my own, personal 'smoe')
Time sure flies when you don't know what you are doing...
<< <i>Russ is a good devils advocate, and helps keep the crooks out of our forums. you need to thank him >>
He may be considered to be a good guy by most, but he's a flamer supreme IMO. To my knowledge, has no ownership or propriety interest in this forum notwithstanding his contrary attitude.
Sorry, but I have no "need" to bring myself to thank him! Then again, "who cares"? His spoof thread was funny for awhile, but not for long.
Maybe we all should agree to a universal "truce". I'm game!
Comments
I say what's on my mind!
If you don't like what I say, tell me!
And, I'll continue to be me!
But I wonder how I'll handle it when that one guy just pisses me off again.....
<< <i>This challenge is issued to any forum member (myself included) who sometimes finds it easier to...... make fun of, insult, flame or disparage others, than to take the time to help or inform them, answer their questions, steer them in the right direction, etc. This applies, whether or not those "others" be fellow-forum members, Ebayer's, fellow collectors or dealers.
In case anyone reading this is wondering if (or thinking that) I am picking on them, in particular, I am not. This challenge is based upon far-too-many instances I have witnessed, where others have been treated harshly and unfairly. In many, if not most cases, it was because someone apparently found it easier or more enjoyable to insult them, than to take the time to discuss, help, educate, clarify, etc.
I challenge each of us to be better participants here, in whatever ways we can.
I expect to catch some flack for this, but that's ok - I think it's worth the downside. >>
awwwww shudddup! you ain't been flame till the HepKitty scorches you!
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
<< <i>I am what I am!
I say what's on my mind!
If you don't like what I say, tell me!
And, I'll continue to be me! >>
gimmie 5 minutes alone with you and you'll never be the same! I'll fix your wagon!
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
<< <i>gimmie 5 minutes alone with you and you'll never be the same! I'll fix your wagon! >>
Promises, promises!!
<< <i>
If you don't like what I say, tell me!
>>
I concur.
My main problem with posts like this - and I am not trying to slam Mark because I respect him a lot - is that people need to tell people when they have a problem with what they are saying or how they are acting. Specifically and at the time. General posts just don't do much for me.
Sure, there are hazards in calling people out if they take it the wrong way but, if you do it in a proper manner and then bow out or act properly yourself, the point gets across and no one is left wondering "Does he mean me?" Alternatively, you can PM most people here if you have a problem and that may often diffuse a situation moreso than calling tem out in public. At least it lets them know you don't think their behavior is appropriate.
The point may not always get across and the other person may not change but specifics are better in my mind that vague generalities.
CoinPeople.com || CoinWiki.com || NumisLinks.com
<< <i>Russ is the bad apple around here and I am glad it's out in the open now..... >>
Russ has been a superior help to me! Bad apples make good pie.
My Odds&Ends eBay Stuff to fuel my coin habit (No Coins)
I have no objection to people being straight forward and specific. In fact, I think that is often a very good thing. For example, you just let me know in a direct (and polite) way, that you saw a potential problem with my "challenge".
I have no issue whatsoever, with that approach. But, if instead of saying what you did, you had said "coinguy1, you should be called idiotguy1 for such a senseless challenge" you would have qualified as one of the people I was trying to reach with this thread.
Pointed discussions between persons with different positions on the same issue (without seeing the discussions deteriorate to name calling and other personal attacks) are wonderful. You had better be prepared to provide support for your position and be able to show the weaknesses in the opposing position. Many persons are unwilling or unable to do so. Those who can and who are lucky enough to find others of the same ilk, are in for a treat.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>Stujoe, based upon your post, I don't think you and I disagree on this issue.
I have no objection to people being straight forward and specific. In fact, I think that is often a very good thing. For example, you just let me know in a direct (and polite) way, that you saw a potential problem with my "challenge".
I have no issue whatsoever, with that approach. But, if instead of saying what you did, you had said "coinguy1, you should be called idiotguy1 for such a senseless challenge" you would have qualified as one of the people I was trying to reach with this thread.
It is indeed often all in how one approaches things. It always helps to approach things with a little tact, or maybe a deep breath...or maybe a deep breath and then some tact or vce versa. No matter, a deep breath and tact usually help.
CoinPeople.com || CoinWiki.com || NumisLinks.com
michael
Chris
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
<< <i>who sometimes finds it easier to...... make fun of, insult, flame or disparage others, than to take the time to help or inform them, answer their questions, steer them in the right direction, etc >>
that's human nature, is'nt it? like making fun of the coin posse for example?
K S
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>. This challenge is based upon far-too-many instances I have witnessed, where others have been treated harshly and unfairly. In many, if not most cases, it was because someone apparently found it easier or more enjoyable to insult them, than to take the time to discuss, help, educate, clarify, etc.
I challenge each of us to be better participants here, in whatever ways we can.
I expect to catch some flack for this, but that's ok - I think it's worth the downside. >>
Amen, brother. As I said in another post:
"Fortunately, this isn't a popularity contest. Recently, the flamers were dilligently working to see if they could bait me to cross the line so I would be banned from "their" board. I just let 'em flame away. After awhile, they looked very silly and were self-defeating.
"Say your piece, but be prepared for a barrage. I doubt that there are many statements that could be made here that would not be controversial. The flamers will pick at every word, look for nonexistant nuances, and do their homework. In my case, the even began to look for hidden meanings in my handle (given to me by a 9 year old), used me as a target for lawyer bashing, brought out obscure history ("60 emails to withdraw feedback"--didn't mention that 55 of 'em were ebay forms), and used every trick in the book to bait me. Best of all, several said they would block me as an Ebay bidder (I hope they did so), which I see as a big plus because I wouldn't want to do business with them if they were the only coin sellers on the planet!"
"I suspect this flamers, who are very good at their trade, drive many good folks into becoming lurkers. Unfortunately, this impedes free speech and discourages open communications. Personally, I don't mind stirring the pot over a hot flame. However, if you can't stand the heat, better get out of the kitchen."
I'll readily admit to stirring the pot to encourage a healthy discourse and probably stepped on some toes in the process. I suggested someone suck an egg, and created a barrage. I quipped "who cares" and had it thrown in my face incessantaly. Someone even started a post to mock me. At first, I thought it was funny. But it evolved into an ugly forum for bashing, with each trying to outdo the last. I learned my lesson, and did not participate after it turned very ugly. I believe the thread was eventually "locked". I'd hazard a guess that the PMs and private emails between the participants contained even more venom and disparaging remarks. I probably should subpeona the traffic (yes, it can be done) for defamatory statements, but would rather take the high road and accept a few apologies.
Like Rodney King queried, "why can't we all just get along"?
The guy is still getting in trouble today and if he really wants everyone to get along maybe he should lead by example.
Cameron Kiefer
<< <i>I totally agree with this concept. I almost didn't even join this forum because of the smart buts. >>
I felt the same way Neptune. And now, I've checked out of participating in the forums for a while because of them. I loved participating, being educated by some of the most informed and insightful people in the coin world but getting flamed, trashed or what ever it's called by some of the "smart buts" (not to mention the outright ugly and personally defamitory PM's that follow) makes one pretty leary of getting burned again.
Sure would be nice though, wouldn't it?
CoinPeople.com || CoinWiki.com || NumisLinks.com
Todd
Partner / Executive VP
Heritage Auctions
bruce scher
<< <i>I finally succomb to everyone's encouragement to get involved on these Boards, brush-up on my html code, buy a really nice flame-retardant suit -- only to find that you're changing the environment to a kinder, gentler Forum? >>
Man, what a friggin' idiot.
Russ, NCNE
Todd,
Welcome to the boards. It's great to have another "big time" numismatist on board.
Jack
<< <i>Great. I finally succomb to everyone's encouragement to get involved on these Boards, brush-up on my html code, buy a really nice flame-retardant suit -- only to find that you're changing the environment to a kinder, gentler Forum?
Todd >>
Welcome to the forums! Make sure it`s a heavy duty flame-retardant suit in case you need it.
Well put Mark as it`s the way the World & U.S. Coin Forum and Currency Forums should be. Nothing wrong with social aspect but, it`s an educational one too.
DOH!!!
<< <i>great....now i have to be nice! >>
Not necessarily. I have it on good authority that when it's a deserving member it's still okay to smack them around a little.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Great. I finally succomb to everyone's encouragement to get involved on these Boards, brush-up on my html code, buy a really nice flame-retardant suit -- only to find that you're changing the environment to a kinder, gentler Forum?
Todd >>
Hey Todd........ If you should decide you actually need that flame retardant suit I can get you excellent prices through my industrial supply house, with Kevlar lined gloves to match.
BTW.... Welcome to the coin forum. Now go out and find me some purdy Walkers!
<< <i>Make sure it`s a heavy duty flame-retardant suit in case you need it.
You'll need one of these.
U.S. Nickels Complete Set with Major Varieties, Circulation Strikes
U.S. Dimes Complete Set with Major Varieties, Circulation Strikes
If the thread is going to bring out the newbies I'll even restate my often offered position;
We all have at least a bit of troll in us and it's up to each of us to keep it down and to help
other users restrain their own.
Not that there's anything wrong with pot stirring, but there is with botton pushing. Don't
let your troll define the line.
CoinPeople.com || CoinWiki.com || NumisLinks.com
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
<< <i>Mark, the meanies are all making fun of my PCGS Units post! >>
Stu,
That target was so obvious, Stevie Wonder would have seen it.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Mark, the meanies are all making fun of my PCGS Units post! >>
Stujoe, I think that's deplorable, just as it would be if they were to make fun of you for misspelling the word "the", as in
<< <i>From teh press release.. >>
On a more serious note, I'd like to thank all of you for your replies (even you, Russ) - it's (dare I say?) encouraging to see a non-flame thread receive so many responses. That applies, even if I did just "flame" Stujoe.
I think there are civil ways of handling differences in opinion that do not involve name-calling or threats of lawsuits or bodily harm. That's so high school (no offense to the under 18 crowd). But at the same time, a healthy debate should be encouraged, differences of opinion should be respected, and we should all have as much a sense of humor about things here as possible.
For me this is fun. If it becomes dull and lifeless, I'm outta here.
For example, I am amazed that no one has really jumped all over Coindog's goofy posts over on the Registry Forum the last couple of weeks.
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
<< <i>
<< <i>Mark, the meanies are all making fun of my PCGS Units post! >>
Stujoe, I think that's deplorable, just as it would be if they were to make fun of you for misspelling the word "the", as in
<< <i>From teh press release.. >>
On a more serious note, I'd like to thank all of you for your replies (even you, Russ) - it's (dare I say?) encouraging to see a non-flame thread receive so many responses. That applies, even if I did just "flame" Stujoe.
Et tu, Brute?!?! Now where am I to turn?
('teh' is my own, personal 'smoe')
CoinPeople.com || CoinWiki.com || NumisLinks.com
<< <i>Russ is a good devils advocate, and helps keep the crooks out of our forums. you need to thank him >>
He may be considered to be a good guy by most, but he's a flamer supreme IMO. To my knowledge, has no ownership or propriety interest in this forum notwithstanding his contrary attitude.
Sorry, but I have no "need" to bring myself to thank him! Then again, "who cares"? His spoof thread was funny for awhile, but not for long.
Maybe we all should agree to a universal "truce". I'm game!
If we're getting ready for a big group hug, I'm leaving!
When we are planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary.
Thomas Paine