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edit - This has been resolved.
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  • Ernie, you are concerned about getting your coin back before he gets the correct one. Maybe he feels the same way? Do you not trust him? Wjy, if he does not play the way you want is he bad? Maybe you are not playing they way he wants? Look at it from his perspective. I had the same thing happen to me as a buyer and never did get my original purchase because the seller sent it to someone else or decided to keep it, I don't know, either way I did not get my coins. I got my money back but that is not what I wanted.

    There are always 2 sides. -BTW this is not me that is having the thing with Ernie.
  • coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,485
    Ernie, you sound as if you're being fair and reasonable. But, what is his side of the story?
  • relayerrelayer Posts: 10,570

    Look I told you I'm not sending you the coin back until you send me the right one.

    Oh wait, that wasn't me.



    Once I sold a 1992 Silver Proof set for $15.

    I got an email from the buyer telling me I shipped him a 1998 Silver Proof Set instead, but that he was happy with it and just wanted to let me know in case I was looking for it.

    I just sent him an email saying he could keep the upgraded set with my compliments. Maybe I'll learn to be more careful.


    As far as your problem, it was a chickensh!t thing to do with the PayPal complaint.

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  • EVillageProwlerEVillageProwler Posts: 5,859 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Maybe the two of you can find a mutually agreeable 3rd party to act as an escrow service?

    There is the ANA show coming up. Perhaps you two can meet there? Be creative, and be mindful of each other's issues.

    Regards,

    EVP

    How does one get a hater to stop hating?

    I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com

  • K6AZK6AZ Posts: 9,295
    Edited because Russ makes a very good point. I think there is more to this story, and Ernie's lack of participation here other to complain about board members that deal with him on eBay makes me suspicious about what really is going on here.
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,515 ✭✭✭
    Ernie,

    First, it took me about two minutes to find the auction you're discussing.

    Second, pardon me if I'm being a skeptic, but you've been registered here for over two years, have a total of only 21 posts and are now posting to try and get support from the forum for an alleged problem with a transaction with another forum member?

    I'll wait until I hear the whole story.

    Russ, NCNE
  • bearcavebearcave Posts: 3,993 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So do I, he needs to return the coin and take you up on your offer.
    Ken
  • 08HALA2008HALA20 Posts: 3,066 ✭✭✭
    If the details you related are accurate you are being more than fair.
    But there may be more to the story--considerng the other person's actions.

    Also if Paypal honors his request you are only out the $185 coin because you still have the $120 coin to resell. (you are out $65)
    As it stands now you will refund his return shipping, then ship to him again: $7-8 plus the extra $15 coin. (you are out $22-23)
    Getting close to a wash either way.

    Mistakes are costly!!!!!


    Hope it works out for the both of you.

    Rookie Joe
    image
  • My thought is that you screwed up. You made the mistake that put him in this situation and now you complain you don't like how he's handling it. I think you should play by his rules now. Sorry, but for your mistake this would have never of happened. Why should he trust you when you couldn't get a simple thing right like sending him the right coin in the first place????????????

    What difference does feedback make or the the number of transaction have to do with it? You're a BIG 0 for 1 with this guy. What would I care if you only made a mistake 1 out of 1000 transactions, if that mistake was on my purchase.

    And why wouldn't he file a charge back? I would too. When you send me the right coin, I'll pay you and return your mistake. If he's a collector I'm sure he just wants the right coin.

    Michael
  • CameonutCameonut Posts: 7,250 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ernie - seems that you are being more than fair. I wouldn't be happy if a coin was being held hostage either, especially since he has filed a chargeback. I bet he doesn't know the coin he has is more valuable than the one he won, his behavior is more like someone who got a less valuable coin.

    I would be most interested in the other side of the story. Lets hope that the board member comes clean. (I would like to know who it is, but lets give him a chance to do the right thing)

    “In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson

    My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!

  • Catch22Catch22 Posts: 1,086 ✭✭
    Ernie, you are more than reasonable and generous with your offer. The buyer is a jerk. Should you decide to post who it is, he won't be welcome in any of my auctions.


    When we are planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary.

    Thomas Paine
  • relayerrelayer Posts: 10,570


    << <i>and are now posting to try and get support from the forum for an alleged problem with a transaction with another forum member? >>



    It could be the makings of another Done Deal image
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    My posts viewed image times
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  • LanLordLanLord Posts: 11,672 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Where's that popcorn icon?
  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,285 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree with the others.
    There are 2 sides to every story.
    Sure, he paid you but then you wanted the coin back before shipping the new one.
    Both sides would have to trust each other on that.

    I would like to hear that person's side.

    Also, it is strange that you joined 2 years ago, have only 21 posts, and come on just now to post about this with another forum member.
    Is that your only reason for the board?

    Someone get out the popcorn emoticon on this one...... image

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,892 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ernie - What is the $185 coin? Could the buyer think it's worth a lot less?
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.


  • << <i>If paypal finds in his favor (they won't), >>



    Don't count on it. PayPal spends very little time on investigations and normally favors the complainant (sp?). Frankly I'm surprised at a couple of the responses here. Haven't you made a mistake before? Is it right to keep a $185 coin AND THEN do a chargeback. It's one (wrong) thing to keep the coin that's worth $60 more, it's REALLY REALLY WRONG to keep the coin AND do a chargeback. Since when is it right for the victim of a mistake to keep the coin and his money, too?



    << <i>Second, pardon me if I'm being a skeptic, but you've been registered here for over two years, have a total of only 21 posts and are now posting to try and get support from the forum for an alleged problem with a transaction with another forum member? >>



    I agree. He should post 200 times a day for two years before he has the right to post a topic such as this one.
    I heard they were making a French version of Medal of Honor. I wonder how many hotkeys it'll have for "surrender."
  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Listening to one side of the story, id say that your offer was fair. But from the buyers standpoint , Id be pissed if I recieved the wrong coin.

    If I had sent the wrong coin to someone and it was of the insignificant value as this, I would let him keep it. If it were my mistake, I should have to eat it and do what ever to make the transaction happy to the guy who got the wrong coin and the guy that you shortchanged who was supposed to get that coin. End of story.




  • CameonutCameonut Posts: 7,250 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I got exactly 1% of the disputed amount thru Paypal on a dispute. That's 75 cents on a $75 item. Wasn't worth my time - I lost alot of respect for Paypal on that one.

    “In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson

    My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!



  • << <i>Listening to one side of the story, id say that your offer was fair. But from the buyers standpoint , Id be pissed if I recieved the wrong coin.

    If I had sent the wrong coin to someone and it was of the insignificant value as this, I would let him keep it. If it were my mistake, I should have to eat it and do what ever to make the transaction happy to the guy who got the wrong coin and the guy that you shortchanged who was supposed to get that coin. End of story. >>






    Yeah what he said
    Analog Rules! Knobs and Switches are cool!
    imageimage
  • Unfortunately, you made a mistake and the buyer has you at his mercy. Under postal regs if you receive something you did not order you are not legally required to send it back.

    Your offer is way more than fair and the individual should seriously consider it even if they are not required to do so. Morally, it would be the exact right thing to do. While he is technically correct on his paypal complaint, he was morally corrupt in doing so.

    I hope he does see the light and accepts your offer as you seem honest and generous in your attempt. I agree that he won't win the Paypal complaint but, sadly, it will remain in your file as well as his at Paypal.

    Have you left feedback for him already? As a seller I never do until the buyer leaves his.
    Member Steamfitters Local 614
    USMC Veteran 1981-1992
    Cold War Veteran

    It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
  • KollectorKingKollectorKing Posts: 4,820 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I nominate coinguy1 as the escrow agent/arbitrator, judge, jury on this "mess"image
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,515 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I agree. He should post 200 times a day for two years before he has the right to post a topic such as this one. >>



    Sometimes even the most obvious points are lost on some.

    Russ, NCNE
  • coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,485


    << <i>Under postal regs if you receive something you did not order you are not legally required to send it back >>

    Catfish172, I believe that would be incorrect under these circumstances.


    KK, thanks for your nomination (I think)image If the parties want me to assist in that manner, I'd be happy to do so.


  • << <i>

    << <i>Under postal regs if you receive something you did not order you are not legally required to send it back >>

    Catfish172, I believe that would be incorrect under these circumstances.


    KK, thanks for your nomination (I think)image If the parties want me to assist in that manner, I'd be happy to do so. >>



    That would be a good thing.
    Member Steamfitters Local 614
    USMC Veteran 1981-1992
    Cold War Veteran

    It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
  • ErnieErnie Posts: 30 ✭✭
    A few comments

    1) If you figured out who it is, do not post it here in hopes he will do the right thing.

    2) As for why I do not post here, I do not have the time to follow up with threads if I was to post, I can certainly start and try to participate more often. I know many of the local New England guys personally as I run the Westford Mass and Bedford NH shows.

    3) I understand that if you get something in the mail you did not pay for you are entitled to keep it. HOWEVER, he did a charge back, and, the coin he recieved was in error, something he acknowledged. If I just randomly send someone out of the blue a coin, then they can keep it.

    4) He wants his coin back, and here is some quotes from his email

    Let me get this right, you want me send this coin back & to pay shipment for YOUR MISTAKE.

    Sorry, doesn't work that way.

    I will send this coin back once I get the coin I purchased & payment for shipment of the XXXXX via payal. Send over the money with instructions on how to use it, if you want priority with ins. send that amount, first class only...send that amount, etc



    Again, without having any recourse if I send him the second coin, why should I? He still has his right to charge it back if he does not get the coin (upon my reciept of the XXXXX)

    5) What his feedback, my feedback, my posting history here, or the fact that he is a PCGS board member is not important, it is all about doing what is right, and keeping the coin and doing a charge back is just wrong. All this email back and forth between us took less than 4 hours from his original email to me. We have been more than fair.

    6) If you ordered something from Heritage, Bowers, Walmart or Target and they sent something more expensive and they wanted it back, would you send it back?
  • K6AZK6AZ Posts: 9,295


    << <i>Under postal regs if you receive something you did not order you are not legally required to send it back. >>



    This is an urban legend. That regulation only applies to a company who sends you merchandise and then tries to bill you for it. If a company sends you a product by mistake, and asks for you to return it, you must return it.
  • I have a problem with many board members--just grin and bear it!!
  • BigD5BigD5 Posts: 3,433

    Do the right thing and send the coin back. My opinion.

    I'll handle the escrow service if need be. I know both parties.
    BigD5
    LSCC#1864

    Ebay Stuff
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,515 ✭✭✭


    << <i>All this email back and forth between us took less than 4 hours from his original email to me. >>



    And we have yet to see any of it other than a single selective snippet. Like I said, I'll wait for the other side of the story instead of rushing to judgement like most in this thread.

    Russ, NCNE


  • << <i>

    << <i>Under postal regs if you receive something you did not order you are not legally required to send it back. >>



    This is an urban legend. That regulation only applies to a company who sends you merchandise and then tries to bill you for it. If a company sends you a product by mistake, and asks for you to return it, you must return it. >>



    That sounds even better.
    Member Steamfitters Local 614
    USMC Veteran 1981-1992
    Cold War Veteran

    It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,772 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I like catfish. I hope he sticks around to help us sort out these ebat fiascos.
  • wayneherndonwayneherndon Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭
    I think you are being reasonable. On the other hand I also think since you made the mistake you should be willing to ship first if the other party requests. Unfortunately, I've made the same mistake a time or two. In those cases, I've shipped the correct coin and included a return envelope with adequate postage to send the other item back. I tried to do everything I could to make it as easy as possible to return the coin.

    WH

  • dimeadzndimeadzn Posts: 123 ✭✭
    Maybe he's just upset? He probably thinks that he was honest enough to tell you what happened and feels you should trust him based on that and the fact that you have his emails about the coin. I can understand you being nervous, but he probably is as well.

    Maybe you both could compromise. If the Post Office does tracking like UPS, you could agree to send money for shipping, insurance, and tracking and ship his coin when he emails you the tracking number for the return. That way, he wouldn't have to wait as long and you have some security also. Or you could use one of the people who've offered to escrow the coins for you both.

    It sounds like you are both good people. Good luck to you both.
    Hamsters oy! Why collect they the taco.
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,146 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If paypal finds in his favor (they won't), he will have my coin and his money and I am now out the $185 coin, and the $125 he sent me, or $310.

    Yeah, right. Fuzzy made up math to drive a point home makes me real comfortable with the one sided story. NOT!

    At this point, his intentions are clear, to defraud me and to keep my coin that he did not pay for.

    Really? More likely you made it clear to him you think this and now he's waiting until he has his money in hand and prepaid shipping before he sends it back. Exactly what I would do. And after seeing the whole mess brought up before the chatroom, I'd wait another month before I mailed it, just to make a point!


    Oh, I forgot to answer your question. If I were you I'd apologize profusely, send him the right coin, send him the money to ship back the wrong coin, send him a freebee and hope like heck he wanted to do business with me in the future. You are dead wrong on this one.

  • relayerrelayer Posts: 10,570

    Ernie

    It appears you have 3 choices

    1) Send him the correct coin, his 2004 Eagle plus return postage and wait for him to return it and remove his PayPal complaint.

    2) Let him keep the coin and you may get to keep your money from PayPal

    3) Get the villagers to light their torches and shame the guy into sending you the coin back first.

    If #3 fails, which of the first two do you prefer?
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  • ErnieErnie Posts: 30 ✭✭
    Sorry about the fuzzy, math, I did make an error and I did not try to make my side look better.

    Someone is PMing him and I assume he knows this thread is here.

    Paypal will take my side, I have an account rep and give them thousands of dollars in fees a month. I am 5 for 5 on winning charge backs over 3 years. 2 were found in my favor, and 3 were retracted because paypal told them they were wrong (this is a LONG time ago when paypal was smaller and FREE!)



  • RBinTexRBinTex Posts: 4,328
    While your offers to a resolution certainly seem fair you're missing the point the the buyer has a right to reject those offers. I would have immediately refunded his $125 and THEN requested that he return the incorrect item AND THEN after after sending him the correct item send him an invoice for the $125 again. Isn't your total risk this way the same as now - the money & the coin??? At least this way you showed that YOU trusted him AND were a big enough person to be the first to take the leap of faith?

    Just so you know, I PERSONALLY would've accepted your terms as they are fair enough to me & the $125 plus the shipping back to you is just not enough to have a bad day over - TO ME image
  • K6AZK6AZ Posts: 9,295
    Well that statement is sure to win people over to your side.

    As others have mentioned, if he was honest enough to tell you he got a more valuable coin, why not just trust him and send the correct coin. Sometimes it is better to give a little bit and avoid the headache.
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,146 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I appreciate the offer of the apology for the fuzzy math, but I'd like to have the apology in hand and prepayment for shipping of my forgiveness before I give it to you.... image

    I think it boils down to the fact that the guy is a repeat customer and he contacted you about your own error. Why can't you trust him ... he's already done the right thing by you several times?
  • GATGAT Posts: 3,146
    If anyone cares, Ernie is a eBay seller that overgrades his raw eBay coins by 2-4 grades. No wonder someone doesn't trust him.
    USAF vet 1951-59


  • << <i>As others have mentioned, if he was honest enough to tell you he got a more valuable coin, why not just trust him and send the correct coin. Sometimes it is better to give a little bit and avoid the headache. >>



    I agree on this point. Unfortunately, it appears something occured in the emails that caused one or both parties to allow emotions to override common sense. Emails while often well intended may be worded as such to cause the receiver to interpret it as distrustful, insulting, harsh, or offensive. Even when it was not the senders intent at all. Not seeing the entire exchange we are handicapped in respect as to what triggered the breakdown in their communication.
    Member Steamfitters Local 614
    USMC Veteran 1981-1992
    Cold War Veteran

    It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
  • K6AZK6AZ Posts: 9,295


    << <i>If anyone cares, Ernie is a eBay seller that overgrades his raw eBay coins by 2-4 grades. No wonder someone doesn't trust him. >>



    image


  • << <i>If anyone cares, Ernie is a eBay seller that overgrades his raw eBay coins by 2-4 grades. No wonder someone doesn't trust him. >>



    Ouch! Now this thread is starting to breakdown like others I have seen.


    In any event Thank You for your service to our country GAT.
    Member Steamfitters Local 614
    USMC Veteran 1981-1992
    Cold War Veteran

    It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,515 ✭✭✭


    << <i>If anyone cares, Ernie is a eBay seller that overgrades his raw eBay coins by 2-4 grades. No wonder someone doesn't trust him. >>



    Hehe, I was waiting for that one to come out. image

    Russ, NCNE
  • mrearlygoldmrearlygold Posts: 17,858 ✭✭✭
    You're making a mountain out of a mole hill. Send him the coin he paid for with a check/or pay pal payment for return shipping on the coin you sent by mistake.

    Why does there even have to be a debate? No bid deal unless you want it to be one.

    But you "run" shows huh?

    Tomimage
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,772 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oh, so it is that "ernie." Boy, I wish ernie was the finalizer at PCGS when my coins were coming through!

    First, it took me about two minutes to find the auction you're discussing.

    Took me about ten. I am not nearly as facile as Russ. image
  • ajiaajia Posts: 5,400 ✭✭✭
    Boy, look at all these replies.
    OK, lets clear the air here. I am the buyer. I got the wrong coin & let Ernie know. I did not look at the value of this coin, I don't collect commems & did not look up value, in fact I thought it was less than the Morgan I did win.

    Let's look at the first email: Ernie, WRONG COIN SENT. I received a Vermont Commemorative. This auction was for a "Scarce S Mint 1896-S Morgan Silver Dollar, Sharp XF
    Pretty straight forward.
    Ernie's reply: Sorry about that, we must have gotten your coin mixed up with another. Send it back to EBW (address) Please insure it for $200. I will reimburse your postage both ways and send along a 2004 BU silver eagle to compensate you for your time. I apologize for the mix up. Ernie
    Bummed that the coin was mixed up, but sh*t happens.
    Then Ernie sends another reply; I just looked into it a little further, we have the 96-S here, we just shipped the wrong inventory # (5661 instead of 5681). Once we get the vermont back we'll get this one out to you. Send it back priority mail if you wish (but not express mail).Ernie
    Was I to presume all the 'perks' in the previous email was still in effect or where they only there because he felt bad about not having the Morgan? But I felt that I shouldn't have to wait for the Morgan the extra days. Maybe it's all the trading I've done here, but I felt Ernie should send the Morgan & I would send the Commem together (same day). Being told I had to send it first then wait until he got the coin, then send the Morgan back to me got the better of me.
    So I respond: Let me get this right, you want me send this coin back & to pay shipment for YOUR MISTAKE. Sorry, doesn't work that way. I will send this coin back once I get the coin I purchased & payment for shipment of the Vermont Commem via payal. Send over the money with instructions on how to use it, if you want priority with ins. send that amount, first class only...send that amount, etc.
    Now the testostirone is kicking in.
    Erie: Hold on a minute. I offered to refund your postage BOTH WAYS and, include a 2004 silver eagle for FREE for your time. Both ways means you send it to me. When I get it, I send you your coin, a 2004 eagle, and your postage back in cash BOTH WAYS. Why should I send both coins to you now? You are getting back about $15 in freebies for MY mistake. Send me back the vermont and I'll send yours. I can not believe you are making a big issue out of this. Don't you trust me? You did the first time when you sent me the money in the first place. Priority mail with $200 insurance will be $7.05. Ernie
    Ernie explaining his intentions.
    Reply: I read the first email to mean that you were offering me these "perks" because you had lost the coin somehow. Second email stated you had found the coin & made no mention that the 'perks' were still valid. In terms of trusting someone, I get the same feeling when you state that you will send the coin once the Commem is received......that comment makes me feel you don't trust me to return the coin....tit for tat.
    I explain my feelings.
    Ernie's reply: Augustin --If I send you the morgan, then I have no recourse if you do not send the Vermont back. If you send the vermont back and I do not send the morgan back to you, you have recourse with paypal. So, please put the coin in the mail, and we'll get all this squared away as quickly as we can. Ernie
    I still feel the guy does not trust me to send it back. At this point, for me, it is a matter of the respect I feel I deserve. I did point out the mix-up, I have paid promptly on the auctions I won from Ernie....I do not believe I have done anything that would make him think I would do anyting but return the coin. Yet I can't get Ernie to say I'll send the Morgan & you send the Commem.
    My reply: Ernie, I have recourse with paypal & ebay right now, but I chose to let you know what happened first. It seems you still don't trust me to send the coin back to you. It looks like we both are standing our ground. Agustin
    I meant this to mean I desided to work with Ernie rather than go directly to paypal or ebay, not as a threat.
    Ernie's reply: Well then I will report you to ebay and to paypal as well as the athorities in your town. I am a power seller and I can get ebay and paypal on the phone in 2 minutes. I'm not playing games, you need to send it back asap.Ernie
    I took this as a direct threat.....I went to paypal & filed a complaint.

    I think some will see it Ernie's way, maybe a few will see it my way. Granted things got out of hand, but I will stand my ground that I deserve the respect to ask that we send the coins back together....something that Ernie think is too much to ask.
    image
  • anoldgoatanoldgoat Posts: 1,493 ✭✭✭
    dimeadzn - I agree.

    Same thing happened to me. I received the wrong coin and notified the seller. He said send the wrong coin back and he would send the right one upon receipt. I did so but felt put out because the seeming distrust. Two weeks later the correct coin arrived. I felt we could have both mailed the coins out at the same time or he could of sent the correct one first. By the way I was out the return postage and haven't bought from him again.

    Trust goes both ways. A good friend and mentor once told me to never trust someone who doesn't trust me.
    Alright! Who removed the cork from my lunch?

    W.C. Fields


  • << <i>Why does there even have to be a debate? No bid deal unless you want it to be one.
    >>

    I agree, bringing it here may have done him more damage as a seller on eBay.
    Member Steamfitters Local 614
    USMC Veteran 1981-1992
    Cold War Veteran

    It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
  • mrearlygoldmrearlygold Posts: 17,858 ✭✭✭
    I think some will see it Ernie's way, maybe a few will see it my way. Granted things got out of hand, but I will stand my ground that I deserve the respect to ask that we send the coins back together....something that Ernie think is too much to ask. >>




    Mountain out of a mole hill. Ernie should have just sent you an email saying something like "Oops, sorry about that, the coin you ordered went out today with a silver eagle and payment for return shipping, sorry for the screw up and hope to see you again"

    Simple.

    I agree with you standing your ground.

    Rgrds
    Tomimage

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