NGC recovers stolen MS-67 SLQ

ziggy29 · July 18, 2004 11:11PM

NGC is reporting on their web site that they have recovered a 1919-S SLQ originally graded MS-67FH by PCGS. It was stolen in January and re-surfaced raw in Baltimore last weekend when it was submitted for re-slabbing. Apparently one of the graders recognized the coin as the coin stolen in January. The rightful owner of the coin had them slab it anyway, where they graded it... MS-67FH. Big surprise there!

This report came this morning at the NGC web site in their "headlines" section.

Very cool!

jcping · July 18, 2004 11:15PM

I am glad to hear the good news

airplanenut · July 18, 2004 11:15PM

Awesome work NGC! Now that's a way to steal business from the competitor!

IrishMike · July 18, 2004 11:16PM

I wonder who submitted it for slabbing and where they purchased it. Sounds like the genesis of an interesting story.

kranky · July 18, 2004 11:20PM

Hey, that's member MS68's coin! Fantastic! Original thread.

Tassa · July 18, 2004 11:21PM

Great!

XpipedreamR · July 18, 2004 11:24PM

<< I wonder who submitted it for slabbing and where they purchased it. Sounds like the genesis of an interesting story. >>

Yeah, that whole angle of the story is quite conspicuous in its absence

Glad the coin's been found

grip · July 18, 2004 11:26PM

Apparently one of the graders recognized the coin as the coin stolen in January...That's realy heads up.
Great work.

BigMoose · July 18, 2004 11:26PM

I agree with IrishMike. Tracing this coin back to the original thief should be very interesting!

ziggy29 · July 18, 2004 11:28PM

<< Yeah, that whole angle of the story is quite conspicuous in its absence

>>

Well, clearly there's only so much they can comment on until the investigation is complete. They need to do some legwork to figure out how and where the submitter got the coin and trace backward from there.

I suppose it's not often we see an MS-67FH raw SLQ any more, so that right there might raise some "ripped-off-and-cracked-out" red flags.

Placid · July 18, 2004 11:33PM

The rightful owner of the coin had them slab it anyway, where they graded it... MS-67FH.

That sounds strange. Did ngc just take the coin and turn it over to "The rightful owner" ?

MFH · July 18, 2004 11:39PM

Any word on who the submitter was and where he "purchased" this coin ?

Nice work NGC. The coin was without a doubt the finest 1919-S I had ever seen and I knew that if the coin was ever brought again to the light of day it would be recognized for the rarity that is was.

I can assume the NGC grader first went on line to check the PCGS number and saw that the coin was removed from the PCGS data base once it was reported stolen.

I commend PCGS for having the certificate verification feature on its web site.

Congratulations to the coin's rightful owner on its retrieval...and I wonder if the owner (or auction house who handled the sale of the coin) had any insurance coverage when the coin was stolen ?

ziggy29 · July 18, 2004 11:40PM

<< That sounds strange. Did ngc just take the coin and turn it over to "The rightful owner" ? >>

I doubt that it was that quick and simple, but ultimately, it sounds like he did get it back since Dave apparently authorized NGC to re-slab it, and the article indicates that he's donating the reward money to the ANA on behalf of NGC.

foodude · July 18, 2004 11:41PM

Great news for the rightful owner!

MFH · July 18, 2004 11:41PM

PS: I bet the owner MS68 will be more than happy to pay NGC the $5000 reward !

Placid · July 18, 2004 11:42PM

Yes I would imagine the person who submitted it might be a little upset if they bought the coin from someone raw unaware it was stolen for good money.

SarasotaFrank · July 18, 2004 11:43PM

<< The rightful owner of the coin had them slab it anyway, where they graded it... MS-67FH.

That sounds strange. Did ngc just take the coin and turn it over to "The rightful owner" ? >>

so if I had purchased this coin and taken it to ngc for garding - they just took it upon themselves to say "we recognize this coin and we're giving it to its rightful owner"?????

Over my dead body (provided I purchased it legally).

I could have a lot of dough tied up in that coin, which could now be tied up for years in the courts, because someone "remembered it"?

SarasotaFrank · July 18, 2004 11:45PM

let me say, if it is the stolen coin, I am delighted for the rightful owner to be on his way to recovering it, however, if I shelled out five figures, innocently, where is the restitutino for the innocent buyer?

XpipedreamR · July 18, 2004 11:45PM

If it's the stolen coin, then there's no way you could have purchased it legally...isn't that right?

ms70 · July 18, 2004 11:46PM

I'm sure we'll eventually hear all the details.

Placid · July 18, 2004 11:47PM

I guess you have to be careful buying coins, someone might later claim it was stolen and take it from you.

kranky · July 18, 2004 11:47PM

<< let me say, if it is the stolen coin, I am delighted for the rightful owner to be on his way to recovering it, however, if I shelled out five figures, innocently, where is the restitutino for the innocent buyer? >>

My understanding is that it's customary in cases like this (stolen coin/counterfeit) for the transactions to be unwound. So you would be able to recover your money from whomever you bought it from. That person would do likewise, etc.

ziggy29 · July 18, 2004 11:51PM

<< I guess you have to be careful buying coins, someone might later claim it was stolen and take it from you. >>

Well, you certainly have to be careful shelling out (presumably) five figures for a raw, finest known specimen. I can't imagine too many finest knowns that valuable haven't already been slabbed, so this would STRONGLY suggest to me that the coin was stolen and cracked out. It may be on the up and up, but I'd be *very* suspicious.

razorface1027 · July 18, 2004 11:56PM

Did they catch the thief?

Placid · July 18, 2004 11:57PM

The set was stolen in October, 1967 from the DuPont family mansion in Coconut Grove, Florida in an armed robbery by five masked gunmen. The coins remained hidden until late 1999, when the Quarter Dollar was purchased over the counter by the Los Angeles Coin Company in "a lot of junk and old electrotype Colonial coins".

The coin is the finer of only two known specimens, and its estimated value today is in excess of $1 million.

Judd 540

Never know where a stolen coin might show up,

razorface1027 · July 19, 2004 12:05AM

Craig;
I guess the old addage, "Possession is 9/10ths of the law" goes out the window...AYE?

Bochiman · July 19, 2004 12:06AM

SarasotaFrank....

Exactly what Manofcoins said....

That is the sad thing for victims of crimes.....there is always a victim...

If you buy a "hot"/stolen item, then you are out that money if it is confiscated by the authorities and returned to the rightful owner.
Your only recourse is if the person you bought it from reimburses you the money or you get a judgement against them and they can pay you (in many cases, they can't....they have spent the money and don't have it any longer).

End result....you can be doing the right thing, buy something you think is ok and find out is stolen and then YOU are out the original money.

(Congrats to the rightful owner on getting it back though!

)

SarasotaFrank · July 19, 2004 12:25AM

My point was, if It was purchased innocently.

ziggy29 · July 19, 2004 12:29AM

<< My point was, if It was purchased innocently. >>

If it was purchased innocently, then hopefully every innocent buyer/seller in this trading chain knows whom they bought the coin from, and can cooperate with law enforcement authorities to trace it back to the thief.

Still, your point is taken -- it's possible that someone in this chain bought the coin in good faith and may have trouble recovering their purchase price, and that sucks. Let's just hope that when this thief is caught, they're good for the money. Then, all will have *truly* ended well for all concerned.

airplanenut · July 19, 2004 12:29AM

<< I can assume the NGC grader first went on line to check the PCGS number and saw that the coin was removed from the PCGS data base once it was reported stolen. >>

I highly doubt this was the case--no criminal with any sense would keep a coin with a traceable serial number in the holder--it had to have been submitted raw.

Jeremy

tradedollarnut · July 19, 2004 12:30AM

Even if purchased innocently, you'd still lose the coin. However, there's such a thing as due process. If challenged, I doubt that NGC could just take the coin and give it back. I would think that it would need to be legally proved it was the same coin and that it was stolen merchandise.

MS68 · July 19, 2004 12:32AM

I want to thank everyone over at NGC for all the help in the recovery of this coin and in particular, Mark Salzberg. From just seeing a photo of the coin from the flyer I handed him back in March he immediately recognized it when submitted at the Baltimore show and sent it down to NGC offices to begin the investigative process. I will be receiving the coin later this week and am obviously thrilled to be getting it back. The submitter of the coin has contacted me and we are trying to track it back to the person that took it. For now, I am just pleased it was not damaged or dipped. It is as pristine as it was when I first purchased it. There was no insurance coverage for the coin as it was classified as a mysterious disappearance.

Shamika · July 19, 2004 12:40AM

MS68,

A heart felt congratulations to you. What a relief you must feel.

mgoodm3 · July 19, 2004 12:42AM

Catch22 · July 19, 2004 12:48AM

I didn't do it, nobody saw me, and you can't prove it! Bart Simpson

This should get interesting really fast.

CarlWohlforth · July 19, 2004 12:52AM

I'm thrilled to hear that coin was found!

EagleEye · July 19, 2004 1:03AM

I am pleased David got his coin back. Lets hope that the history of the coin over the past few months can lead to the thief.

Placid · July 19, 2004 1:14AM

After reading the details in the original post of how the coin was lost I really don't know how someone could prove it was stolen vs. being found on the ground in a public area.

Or is there no difference? Seems like I remember reading story's of people finding money in public areas and they have to wait a certain amount of time for someone to claim it and if not they get to keep it.
Not sure how that works with other items.

Congrats to the owner on getting their coin back.

nwcs · July 19, 2004 1:40AM

It sounds like one story has a happy ending and another story is just beginning. But in the mean time I'm glad to hear something stolen was recovered!

quattrocoins · July 19, 2004 1:49AM

>>>
"It sounds like one story has a happy ending and another story is just beginning. But in the mean time I'm glad to hear something stolen was recovered!" <<<

Very glad to hear that it was recovered.

I hope the second story doesn't have a good ending for the perp.!

Elcontador · July 19, 2004 2:00AM

Ditto re the last post. In a world that seems to take a priority on focusing on negative matters, I'm happy to see a story that indeed has a happy ending. It would have been very easy for NGC to simply assume that the coin was sent in by a crack-out artist trying to get an upgrade, and treat the submission accordingly.

IrishMike · July 19, 2004 2:18AM

Don't know what the laws are in other states but here if you are in the possession of stolen goods, they go back to the person that held ownership when they were stolen, irrespective of the fact that you purchased them in good faith. Your recourse would be against the person you bought it from.

MrEureka · July 19, 2004 2:25AM

Congrats, Dave!

UncleWiggly · July 19, 2004 2:25AM

Glad to hear this and will be waiting for the rest of the story.

Jerry

Conder101 · July 19, 2004 3:25AM

<< Even if purchased innocently, you'd still lose the coin. However, there's such a thing as due process. If challenged, I doubt that NGC could just take the coin and give it back. I would think that it would need to be legally proved it was the same coin and that it was stolen merchandise. >>

It probably went something like this. NGC investigates and determines that it is the missing coin. They contact the authorities and they are there when NGC returns the coin. The authorities then step in and confiscate the coin as stolen property. At least that was how it was handled when ANACS recovered the Linderman/Dupont 1804 dollar. They contacted the submitter, told him it was ready, he came to ANA headquarters, they gave him the coins and the police stepped it and arrested him. The coin was then kept by the authorities pending their investigations and any legal proceedings.

Russ · July 19, 2004 4:11AM

Interesting that the submitter chose NGC rather than PCGS. Could it be that they were worried it was more likely to be recognized at PCGS?

Russ, NCNE

ms70 · July 19, 2004 5:17AM

At least it's in a holder for now to ensure it won't get damaged from poor handling.

lloydmincy · July 19, 2004 5:23AM

Russ, if it was submitted to PCI, (not one of the majors like NGC or PCGS) THEN I wwould think the submitter new it was iffy.

Placid: Use your detective expertise: NO WAY was it found. Why would someone want to take it out of the PCGS holder??? And furthermore, it is RARE when coins of high caliber are stolen. I know they are valuable, but a coin like that... it is uncommon and when someone tries to sell it/submit it, sooner or later, it will get attention.

Great that it came back. AND SO SOON!!! Someone definetely stole it then, and it was a small group of people around the table when David was picking up his coin.

Not to open my big mouth, but speaking to David, he has (had) a good idea who it was.... I believe with such a short time frame from original theft, the culprit will be identified in no time.

jcping · July 19, 2004 10:13AM

> I believe with such a short time frame from original theft, the culprit will be identified in no time.

It has been another day passed by, do we know anything new?

bullseye · July 19, 2004 12:06PM

Congrats to NGC and a big whew for MS68!

This plot should be worth a made for TV movie-at least!

Obviously the person who found or took the coin wasn't the sharpest needle in the biz...Book em' Danno!

foodude · July 19, 2004 12:09PM

Book em' Danno

Hopeful that's the next chapter to this saga.

NGC recovers stolen MS-67 SLQ

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