The ANA wrote the book on grading coins, and have written standards in place that all are supposed to follow.
Says who?
Just because someone writes a book about a subject does not mean that it has to be followed or is necessarily true. Based on that premise why isn't everyone following Hagar's guide to grading Morgans. Because he wrote the book shouldn't he be the authority on grading Morgans?
Coin collecting for me isa hobby not a buisness. As a hobbiest I don't see how this can help ACG even if they win. I know the old saying all publicity is good. I had never paid much attention to ACG but now I know I will steer way wide of anything associated with them. I think this lawsuit hurts them more than anything.
<< <i>My personal feeling is that ACG has messed up naming the ANA as a defendant. The ANA wrote the book on grading coins, and have written standards in place that all are supposed to follow. It is evident those guidelines were not followed.
I think all the individual named defendants should feel alot better now that the ANA is on their side now so to speak. I bet this whole case gets dropped. ACG, in my opinion, is looking for a cash settlement. I don't think they want to take this to court against the one organization who wrote the laws on coin grading. >>
By naming the ANA in the suit, doesn't it preclude them being used as expert testimony? What a can of worms.
<< <i>I think this lawsuit hurts them more than anything. >>
I heartily agree. Can anyone that's heard of the suit, say honestly that they would buy ACG Graded Coins, or submit coins in for grading to ACG. I know I won't.
<< <i>I think this lawsuit hurts them more than anything. >>
I heartily agree. Can anyone that's heard of the suit, say honestly that they would buy ACG Graded Coins, or submit coins in for grading to ACG. I know I won't. >>
I think they're hoping for jackpot justice that will make it irrelevant whether they continue to do business or not. Their press release says they're seeking damages into the millions of dollars.
I said it before and I'll say it again. Be VERY VERY VERY careful what you post on here about ACG, their principals or their lawsuit. Defamation over the internet is a fast developing area and nobody can be sure exactly when you cross the line and when you don't. Also, the case is in a Florida state court and that means Florida law applies so Florida lawyers know best what the rules are (I'm just a humble country lawyer here in Lost Angeles and I don't know enough about Florida law to fill a shot glass).
Agree with the other barrister posts tho. Amending a complaint is a very common way of "cleaning up," after you first attempt to fire your shotgun at the broadside of a barn, to put it in legal terms. Now you load with more precise ammunition and aim more carefully.
Yes, people who are dismissed from a lawsuit without some agreement barring their right to do so (like a waiver of costs) can sue for malicious prosecution here in Can't-afford-ya, don't know if Fl. has the same rule, but the right is pretty universal. Yes, the lawyers who filed the case against you would also be liable for malicious prosecution. No, minors are not exempt -- just because you are young and expected to act foolishly from time to time (not like us old folks who always act correctly), doesn't mean you have a free pass.
Common law defamation requires that you publish a statement (key wordublish) that is false (key concept: falsity)and that impugns (insults, diss, puts down) the integrity, honesty, or other good qualities of the person or entity you are talking about, that it is understood as such and that it causes damage. Sometimes, in what is called a "per se" case, you don't have to prove damages. Saying somebody is dishonest, a thief, or committing crimes, is "per se."
I think bringing the ANA in, given the history of the hearing and all, is a most interesting legal step. We should all watch for future developments. Remember, nothing is impossible in a courtroom -- OJ golfs in Florida every day. Yes, this will be a feeding frenzy for lawyers but I would imagine that the ANA always has access to the best and the brightest. If not, why, PM me.
Now that the ANA is being named as a defendent, wouldn't this make all of the testimony and the findings of the ANA ACG hearing admissable as evidence in the jury trial?
FYI - Just a short while ago Judge Simmons granted the motion by the plaintiffs to amend their complaint. The amended complaint is now the current pleading.
I can not say any more on this either here or by PM.
Hell yes an attorney can be sued, as some here have posted, there is "malicious prosecution", there's also "Abuse of Process" and in Illinois we have Illinois Supreme Court Rule 137, which states:
Rule 137. Signing of Pleadings, Motions and Other Papers--Sanctions
Every pleading, motion and other paper of a party represented by an attorney shall be signed by at least one attorney of record in his individual name, whose address shall be stated. A party who is not represented by an attorney shall sign his pleading, motion, or other paper and state his address. Except when otherwise specifically provided by rule or statute, pleadings need not be verified or accompanied by affidavit. The signature of an attorney or party constitutes a certificate by him that he has read the pleading, motion or other paper; that to the best of his knowledge, information, and belief formed after reasonable inquiry it is well grounded in fact and is warranted by existing law or a good-faith argument for the extension, modification, or reversal of existing law, and that it is not interposed for any improper purpose, such as to harass or to cause unnecessary delay or needless increase in the cost of litigation. If a pleading, motion, or other paper is not signed, it shall be stricken unless it is signed promptly after the omission is called to the attention of the pleader or movant. If a pleading, motion, or other paper is signed in violation of this rule, the court, upon motion or upon its own initiative, may impose upon the person who signed it, a represented party, or both, an appropriate sanction, which may include an order to pay to the other party or parties the amount of reasonable expenses incurred because of the filing of the pleading, motion or other paper, including a reasonable attorney fee.
All proceedings under this rule shall be brought within the civil action in which the pleading, motion or other paper referred to has been filed, and no violation or alleged violation of this rule shall give rise to a separate civil suit, but shall be considered a claim within the same civil action. Motions brought pursuant to this rule must be filed within 30 days of the entry of final judgment, or if a timely post-judgment motion is filed, within 30 days of the ruling on the post-judgment motion.
This rule shall apply to the State of Illinois or any agency of the State in the same manner as any other party. Furthermore, where the litigation involves review of a determination of an administrative agency, the court may include in its award for expenses an amount to compensate a party for costs actually incurred by that party in contesting on the administrative level an allegation or denial made by the State without reasonable cause and found to be untrue.
Where a sanction is imposed under this rule, the judge shall set forth with specificity the reasons and basis of any sanction so imposed either in the judgment order itself or in a separate written order.
Adopted June 19, 1989, effective August 1, 1989; amended December 17, 1993, effective February 1, 1994.
Do you ever get the feeling we would be better off without so many laws? Peronally, I believe that defamation or any other similar things should be protected under freedom of speech. Simply put, people should be free to say whatever they want, anytime, anywhere. If defamation is defined as making false statements that insult a given party or cause people to lose trust in it, then about 20 people a day could be sued at any given middle or highschool for defamation by people who they called gay, morons (officially defined as people who's IQ is 75 or less) and any number of terms that are forbidden to post here.
There is a very interesting interplay between defamation laws and the Constitutional Right to Free Speech under the 1st Amendment. NY Times v. Sullivan, long time ago said that if you are a public figure, there has to be real actual malice. In other words, if you claim to be defamed, how much of a "public figure" or even a "quasi-public" figure you are, may make it hard to recover because Free Speech may trump.
There are way way way too many laws. I think legislatures should be restricted to meeting every other year and certain laws should not be played with more than once every 10 years. There are way too many lawsuits now and many of them are pure frivolous junk, but, the right of the little guy to go to court to fight against the big guys (something John Edwards can talk about better than I) is a very important part of what makes this country great.
The ANA has a lot of interesting arguments it can make -- they may actually be in a unique position given why they exist and what it is that they are mandated to do, ie., keep the numismatics playing field professional.
I'm glued to my computer screen, waiting for further info.
people should be free to say whatever they want, anytime, anywhere.
I disagree because in the 1994 election, one of our candidates did a TV commercial showing a fabricated out-of-town newspaper. He made it show a fake headline indicating his opponent had done something illegal in that other town.
Comments
Says who?
Just because someone writes a book about a subject does not mean that it has to be followed or is necessarily true. Based on that premise why isn't everyone following Hagar's guide to grading Morgans. Because he wrote the book shouldn't he be the authority on grading Morgans?
Joe.
I suggest the fossil take up knitting
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
~I'm ready, I'm ready~
<< <i>My personal feeling is that ACG has messed up naming the ANA as a defendant. The ANA wrote the book on grading coins, and have written standards in place that all are supposed to follow. It is evident those guidelines were not followed.
I think all the individual named defendants should feel alot better now that the ANA is on their side now so to speak. I bet this whole case gets dropped. ACG, in my opinion, is looking for a cash settlement. I don't think they want to take this to court against the one organization who wrote the laws on coin grading.
>>
By naming the ANA in the suit, doesn't it preclude them being used as expert testimony? What a can of worms.
<< <i>I think this lawsuit hurts them more than anything. >>
I heartily agree. Can anyone that's heard of the suit, say honestly that they would buy ACG Graded Coins, or submit coins in for grading to ACG. I know I won't.
<< <i>
<< <i>I think this lawsuit hurts them more than anything. >>
I heartily agree. Can anyone that's heard of the suit, say honestly that they would buy ACG Graded Coins, or submit coins in for grading to ACG. I know I won't. >>
I think they're hoping for jackpot justice that will make it irrelevant whether they continue to do business or not. Their press release says they're seeking damages into the millions of dollars.
Agreed!
But that's exactly what the lawsuit will attempt to determine.
Joe.
Agree with the other barrister posts tho. Amending a complaint is a very common way of "cleaning up," after you first attempt to fire your shotgun at the broadside of a barn, to put it in legal terms. Now you load with more precise ammunition and aim more carefully.
Yes, people who are dismissed from a lawsuit without some agreement barring their right to do so (like a waiver of costs) can sue for malicious prosecution here in Can't-afford-ya, don't know if Fl. has the same rule, but the right is pretty universal. Yes, the lawyers who filed the case against you would also be liable for malicious prosecution. No, minors are not exempt -- just because you are young and expected to act foolishly from time to time (not like us old folks who always act correctly), doesn't mean you have a free pass.
Common law defamation requires that you publish a statement (key word
I think bringing the ANA in, given the history of the hearing and all, is a most interesting legal step. We should all watch for future developments. Remember, nothing is impossible in a courtroom -- OJ golfs in Florida every day. Yes, this will be a feeding frenzy for lawyers but I would imagine that the ANA always has access to the best and the brightest. If not, why, PM me.
I can not say any more on this either here or by PM.
That is a shame. It seems the Hagars have succeeded in silencing you and others.
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Rule 137. Signing of Pleadings, Motions and Other Papers--Sanctions
Every pleading, motion and other paper of a party represented by an attorney shall be signed by at least one attorney of record in his individual name, whose address shall be stated. A party who is not represented by an attorney shall sign his pleading, motion, or other paper and state his address. Except when otherwise specifically provided by rule or statute, pleadings need not be verified or accompanied by affidavit. The signature of an attorney or party constitutes a certificate by him that he has read the pleading, motion or other paper; that to the best of his knowledge, information, and belief formed after reasonable inquiry it is well grounded in fact and is warranted by existing law or a good-faith argument for the extension, modification, or reversal of existing law, and that it is not interposed for any improper purpose, such as to harass or to cause unnecessary delay or needless increase in the cost of litigation. If a pleading, motion, or other paper is not signed, it shall be stricken unless it is signed promptly after the omission is called to the attention of the pleader or movant. If a pleading, motion, or other paper is signed in violation of this rule, the court, upon motion or upon its own initiative, may impose upon the person who signed it, a represented party, or both, an appropriate sanction, which may include an order to pay to the other party or parties the amount of reasonable expenses incurred because of the filing of the pleading, motion or other paper, including a reasonable attorney fee.
All proceedings under this rule shall be brought within the civil action in which the pleading, motion or other paper referred to has been filed, and no violation or alleged violation of this rule shall give rise to a separate civil suit, but shall be considered a claim within the same civil action. Motions brought pursuant to this rule must be filed within 30 days of the entry of final judgment, or if a timely post-judgment motion is filed, within 30 days of the ruling on the post-judgment motion.
This rule shall apply to the State of Illinois or any agency of the State in the same manner as any other party. Furthermore, where the litigation involves review of a determination of an administrative agency, the court may include in its award for expenses an amount to compensate a party for costs actually incurred by that party in contesting on the administrative level an allegation or denial made by the State without reasonable cause and found to be untrue.
Where a sanction is imposed under this rule, the judge shall set forth with specificity the reasons and basis of any sanction so imposed either in the judgment order itself or in a separate written order.
Adopted June 19, 1989, effective August 1, 1989; amended December 17, 1993, effective February 1, 1994.
There are way way way too many laws. I think legislatures should be restricted to meeting every other year and certain laws should not be played with more than once every 10 years. There are way too many lawsuits now and many of them are pure frivolous junk, but, the right of the little guy to go to court to fight against the big guys (something John Edwards can talk about better than I) is a very important part of what makes this country great.
The ANA has a lot of interesting arguments it can make -- they may actually be in a unique position given why they exist and what it is that they are mandated to do, ie., keep the numismatics playing field professional.
I'm glued to my computer screen, waiting for further info.
I disagree because in the 1994 election, one of our candidates did a TV commercial showing a fabricated out-of-town newspaper. He made it show a fake headline indicating his opponent had done something illegal in that other town.
Looking for PCGS AU58 Washington's, 32-63.
Ditto
Ya think?
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
That's my opinion
Jerry